Of course it'll be appealed. Pac 2 expects that. But legal appeals can't introduce any new or additional evidence/information and must show an error in the original decision. That's probably why he let the former Pac 10 ramble on as long as they wished. I'm pretty sure, under his folksy demeanor, Judge Libey ain't no fool.
I'm thinking that Judge Libey allowed the Leavers to ramble on as much as they wanted partially to help avoid appeal claims. As in, "we didn't even really get to say everything we wanted!" Sounds like he was very careful not to hand them easy legal gripes for that.
The judge made a mess of this case by failing to clearly address the issue of ownership of the assets and liabilities. It's a terrible decision from a legal consistency standpoint.
The issue of the ownership of the funds/labilities is integral to the board decision, and Libbey recognized that by saying the two schools had to deal with the 10 "reasonably" on that issue. The problem is that what is reasonable to one may not be to another. In short, he created a need for an appeal to clarify that point.
When Nebraska, Colorado, Missouri, and Texas A&M left the Big 12, they gave up their conference revenue and voting rights. They got nothing from the conference for their departure. The same thing happened with USC and UCLA. Seems pretty difficult to argue against a precedent that remaining conference members have already established.
Let’s cross one bridge at a time. If UW appeals todays decision, and it appears likely, then the question of who votes is delayed…until that decision is finalized, the actual voting on any issues will, likewise, be delayed.
Or at least expedites the appeal. It would be interesting to know what precedents were cited by each side, especially by the ten schools that want to control resources on the way out.
It is just so ironic isn't it? The brain power, education and drive of the collected attorneys in the courtroom could surely have figured out how to save the Pac12 while making everyone happy and welcoming SDSU/SMU to the family. And did I understand correctly Herr Kliavkoff didn't have the stones to show up for the hearing?
This Duck wants for the Pac2 to take what's left - all of it - and rebuild the once-proud Conference of Champions.
Unless there were also attorneys for ESPN, Fox, etc. present there probably would have been no way to figure it out. The issue was money, not who had the best ideas.
Amen to that. Our future is very uncertain and scary with the election process.
As for this decision today, GREED DID NOT WIN, but yet, the President U of Washington still wants part of the what he does not deserve. The next thing we will hear (like
what we have from a former POTUS) WE WON AND WE WILL FIGHT FOR OUR PORTION, JUST WATCH.
(Must finish) NOW, THE MOST IMPORTANT PROCESS IS TO GET A GREAT SCHEDULE SET FOR 2024 for both schools. I am betting, behind the scenes, there is an almost complete schedule all ready done, and when Coach meets with each individual player at the end of the season or before the “portal opens”.
The leaving 10 teams, you just messed up your bed and it does not smell well, so you had better clean it up, as your future teams won’t like the smell you bring!!!!
I will have a “Crown Royal” now to enjoy the decision today.
All sounds great, but at the end of the day, UW and O are in the B1G and the PAC-2 will merge with the Mountain West. Smells like sweet violets if you ask me.
I Will love seeing the both of you getting your butts kicked in the snow at Michigan, Ohio State, Penn State and perhaps others while the PAC-2 will start to build a better conference and you greedy boys will not be a part of it!!!
As a long time season ticket holder for Ducks football I say bravo to OSU and WSU. They deserve to determine their own path forward and not leave it up to the incompetent leadership of the PAC12 or to the schools who bailed out.
I hope we can still retain the rivalry games and that both OSU & WSU can maintain thriving programs!
I appreciate your kind words, Chris, I really do, including your sentiment about the Civil War. But the truth is the thought of playing the Ducks after this year is simply too painful for many Beaver fans. At least for now. Maybe someday. But thank you, seriously.
Even as a deep purple Husky fan, I love this. Reminds me of a filmed movie of not so old that easily could fit into the described courtroom in Colfax venue. Great insights about the cafe clientel
As an Oregon fan since the early 50's I like it too. I'm having a hard time being a Duck fan through this. When money becomes the priority good does not follow. I smell regrets coming, and even a reassembling of the PAC 12 in five years. And if/when it does I hope OSU and WSU are still in control. Nobody has repealed the law of Karma yet...
I mean that I hate that we are in this place now. We didn't have to be here but idiots took over. Now I root for Karma even though I wish I didn't have to.
All season long I have been looking at the effing PAC 12 graffiti on our home field. On Saturday I want to see PAC 2 in some sort of orange and crimson color scheme.
Well we are playing WA so we should let the graduating seniors participate in some sort of elaborate unveiling. Two of those symbols on the field so they each pull some sort of taped covering off of the logo strip by strip.
Good for OSU and WSU. Shame on UW. Ive never seen a university that seemed to exude evil incarnate. Their wealthy booster base will get them through these tough times I'm sure...sniff sniff.
There is a simple lesson here: look before you leap.
The Departing Ten got so wrapped up with football and media rights they simply forgot about assets and liabilities and responsibilities and obligations. Not to mention the real student-athletes. This will haunt them until their next conference abandonment.
Ain't that the case! I presume school ADs are highly competitive and likely in high school or college sports. They all want to "WIN". The school Presidents, less so, but still very concerned about how they are viewed by their peers. So it was a severe case of FOMO (which is an epidemic in America today) that caused them all to get cold feet and jump. If they had spent time thinking about all the possibilities, they would have had a plan for various options. But they did not. They all trusted George K. Amazing!
I think it was more or less being relegated to a streaming service with very limited access to live TV. It's a shame that the PAC 12 couldn't get a 30 million dollar deal signed with ESPN and another deal with Apple or Amazon for the PAC12 network and the games not picked up by ESPN. It seems like a no-brainer...but the .org crowd rarely impresses outside their walls.
Funny, the move is to cutting the cord. I don’t understand the view that Apple+ wasn’t going to be a good fit.
How many subscriptions does the average household have? We have Directv streaming, Sling (Pac12 network), Disney+, Peacock (cycling), HBO Max, Apple+, and more I’m sure. Those are just the ones I recall.
Thankfully, common sense and justice prevailed. Today. It is hard to fathom a reversal on appeal given the facts. However, fairness and equity needs to be part of how the assets are kept and/or distributed. Just as Judge Libey stated. There is no retribution or payback that will stand in court. OSU and WSU will stay on the right side of the issue to achieve the best outcome. In the meantime, get the 2024 schedule done and out! And thanks John for being there for us!! You’re the best!
"[T]he attorneys for the University of Washington argued that the case belonged in the United States Supreme Court given that the Pac-12 involves six jurisdictions.
"That elicited a chuckle in the courtroom."
I'd love a story about the chuckles. I would have been one of the people laughing.
Of course it'll be appealed. Pac 2 expects that. But legal appeals can't introduce any new or additional evidence/information and must show an error in the original decision. That's probably why he let the former Pac 10 ramble on as long as they wished. I'm pretty sure, under his folksy demeanor, Judge Libey ain't no fool.
Hopefully Washington Supreme Court just declines to hear the appeal.
I'm thinking that Judge Libey allowed the Leavers to ramble on as much as they wanted partially to help avoid appeal claims. As in, "we didn't even really get to say everything we wanted!" Sounds like he was very careful not to hand them easy legal gripes for that.
The judge made a mess of this case by failing to clearly address the issue of ownership of the assets and liabilities. It's a terrible decision from a legal consistency standpoint.
He was not asked to do that.
He was asked to interprete the bylaws for the CEO Board.
Courts never do more than they are asked for
The issue of the ownership of the funds/labilities is integral to the board decision, and Libbey recognized that by saying the two schools had to deal with the 10 "reasonably" on that issue. The problem is that what is reasonable to one may not be to another. In short, he created a need for an appeal to clarify that point.
When Nebraska, Colorado, Missouri, and Texas A&M left the Big 12, they gave up their conference revenue and voting rights. They got nothing from the conference for their departure. The same thing happened with USC and UCLA. Seems pretty difficult to argue against a precedent that remaining conference members have already established.
Wilner wrote a better analysis of some of the issues. I think JC felt time constricted to get something out.
https://www.oregonlive.com/collegefootball/2023/11/oregon-state-washington-state-gain-control-of-pac-12-board-but-appeal-lurks.html
Let’s cross one bridge at a time. If UW appeals todays decision, and it appears likely, then the question of who votes is delayed…until that decision is finalized, the actual voting on any issues will, likewise, be delayed.
Or at least expedites the appeal. It would be interesting to know what precedents were cited by each side, especially by the ten schools that want to control resources on the way out.
It is just so ironic isn't it? The brain power, education and drive of the collected attorneys in the courtroom could surely have figured out how to save the Pac12 while making everyone happy and welcoming SDSU/SMU to the family. And did I understand correctly Herr Kliavkoff didn't have the stones to show up for the hearing?
This Duck wants for the Pac2 to take what's left - all of it - and rebuild the once-proud Conference of Champions.
Unless there were also attorneys for ESPN, Fox, etc. present there probably would have been no way to figure it out. The issue was money, not who had the best ideas.
A rebuild without USC,UCLA, Oregon & Washington the pac conference is a glorified MWC conference.
Thanks for the info John. Your column showed up before KATU’s news bulletin. Three cheers for you and the PAC 2!
I don’t suppose Judge Libey would be interested in running for president? Sounds like just the sort of person we need right now.
Amen to that. Our future is very uncertain and scary with the election process.
As for this decision today, GREED DID NOT WIN, but yet, the President U of Washington still wants part of the what he does not deserve. The next thing we will hear (like
what we have from a former POTUS) WE WON AND WE WILL FIGHT FOR OUR PORTION, JUST WATCH.
NOW, the
(Must finish) NOW, THE MOST IMPORTANT PROCESS IS TO GET A GREAT SCHEDULE SET FOR 2024 for both schools. I am betting, behind the scenes, there is an almost complete schedule all ready done, and when Coach meets with each individual player at the end of the season or before the “portal opens”.
The leaving 10 teams, you just messed up your bed and it does not smell well, so you had better clean it up, as your future teams won’t like the smell you bring!!!!
I will have a “Crown Royal” now to enjoy the decision today.
All sounds great, but at the end of the day, UW and O are in the B1G and the PAC-2 will merge with the Mountain West. Smells like sweet violets if you ask me.
I Will love seeing the both of you getting your butts kicked in the snow at Michigan, Ohio State, Penn State and perhaps others while the PAC-2 will start to build a better conference and you greedy boys will not be a part of it!!!
I like the Beavs and the Cougs. Win-win for me in that scenario.
No no no. We don't need another old guy running for president.
Why?
we don't need a judge, we need an administrator
Why?
This is Cougar Country…….go Cougs , and go Beavs. Somehow justice prevailed on the Palouse.
Yep....MSN is where I go for all my hard-hitting news
It is a link to Yahoo Sports.
Justice prevailed. Go Cougs and Beavs. I’m a Coug but this weekend I will be rooting for the Beavs. Beat the Dawgs.
As a long time season ticket holder for Ducks football I say bravo to OSU and WSU. They deserve to determine their own path forward and not leave it up to the incompetent leadership of the PAC12 or to the schools who bailed out.
I hope we can still retain the rivalry games and that both OSU & WSU can maintain thriving programs!
I appreciate your kind words, Chris, I really do, including your sentiment about the Civil War. But the truth is the thought of playing the Ducks after this year is simply too painful for many Beaver fans. At least for now. Maybe someday. But thank you, seriously.
Ever forward OSU and WSU! Be firm but fair with your powers..
Even as a deep purple Husky fan, I love this. Reminds me of a filmed movie of not so old that easily could fit into the described courtroom in Colfax venue. Great insights about the cafe clientel
As an Oregon fan since the early 50's I like it too. I'm having a hard time being a Duck fan through this. When money becomes the priority good does not follow. I smell regrets coming, and even a reassembling of the PAC 12 in five years. And if/when it does I hope OSU and WSU are still in control. Nobody has repealed the law of Karma yet...
Nobody has repealed the law of Karma yet... I love that! Yet at the same time I hate that I am rooting for Karma.
What else is there to root for?
Schadenfreude.
I mean that I hate that we are in this place now. We didn't have to be here but idiots took over. Now I root for Karma even though I wish I didn't have to.
Karma is all around us all the time whether you root for it or not
No need it’s a self fulfilling prophecy
Hooah!!! I'm out of order??? You're out of order!!! This entire proceeding is out of order!!!
Watching an Al Pacino movie right now: Sea of Love
All season long I have been looking at the effing PAC 12 graffiti on our home field. On Saturday I want to see PAC 2 in some sort of orange and crimson color scheme.
It’d be cool if some creative OSU students snuck into Reiser with a can of green paint and made the 12 into a 2. 😎
Well we are playing WA so we should let the graduating seniors participate in some sort of elaborate unveiling. Two of those symbols on the field so they each pull some sort of taped covering off of the logo strip by strip.
Good for OSU and WSU. Shame on UW. Ive never seen a university that seemed to exude evil incarnate. Their wealthy booster base will get them through these tough times I'm sure...sniff sniff.
There is a simple lesson here: look before you leap.
The Departing Ten got so wrapped up with football and media rights they simply forgot about assets and liabilities and responsibilities and obligations. Not to mention the real student-athletes. This will haunt them until their next conference abandonment.
Ain't that the case! I presume school ADs are highly competitive and likely in high school or college sports. They all want to "WIN". The school Presidents, less so, but still very concerned about how they are viewed by their peers. So it was a severe case of FOMO (which is an epidemic in America today) that caused them all to get cold feet and jump. If they had spent time thinking about all the possibilities, they would have had a plan for various options. But they did not. They all trusted George K. Amazing!
I think it was more or less being relegated to a streaming service with very limited access to live TV. It's a shame that the PAC 12 couldn't get a 30 million dollar deal signed with ESPN and another deal with Apple or Amazon for the PAC12 network and the games not picked up by ESPN. It seems like a no-brainer...but the .org crowd rarely impresses outside their walls.
Funny, the move is to cutting the cord. I don’t understand the view that Apple+ wasn’t going to be a good fit.
How many subscriptions does the average household have? We have Directv streaming, Sling (Pac12 network), Disney+, Peacock (cycling), HBO Max, Apple+, and more I’m sure. Those are just the ones I recall.
I’m sure there are plenty of others like me.
Beavers > Leavers
Thankfully, common sense and justice prevailed. Today. It is hard to fathom a reversal on appeal given the facts. However, fairness and equity needs to be part of how the assets are kept and/or distributed. Just as Judge Libey stated. There is no retribution or payback that will stand in court. OSU and WSU will stay on the right side of the issue to achieve the best outcome. In the meantime, get the 2024 schedule done and out! And thanks John for being there for us!! You’re the best!
And the 10 won’t be able to railroad the 2 by simply dissolving the conference and liquidating assets, which was a very real threat.
Absolutely!
How much longer will the departing 10 fight this? It sure looks bad on them.
It appears Pac 2 in 2024-25 and perhaps the new Pac 8 in the following year.
"[T]he attorneys for the University of Washington argued that the case belonged in the United States Supreme Court given that the Pac-12 involves six jurisdictions.
"That elicited a chuckle in the courtroom."
I'd love a story about the chuckles. I would have been one of the people laughing.
Great reporting as always, btw!