I don’t hold any animosity for Jonathan Smith at all. He’s the least guilty in this disaster. Godspeed, Coach Smith. Thanks for all you did for OSU. We will never forget it.
Smith needed to stay at least one year. If the PAC2 experiment failed and he decided to leave, then no one would blame him. But have you seen the players Twitter posts, it's obvious he lied to them... Told them to stick with it for four months and blindsided them.
I hope whatever happens to the Beavs in the future also happens to Smiths career
They did stick with him for four months--the months of football season this fall. Jonathan Smith has been much more transparent about leaving than 99% of coaches have before him.
Doesn't have to be called trashing Smith. He did a great job the last two years but left with mediocre 34-35 record and then jumped ship because he didn't like the odds of staying and fighting. Doesn't that make him a quitter? What else can you call it with some sugar coating? Wonder what kind of Rah-Rah speech he gave to his team before the Oregon game? "Win it for each other, win it for Oregon State!" Wonder how he felt at that moment knowing he was gone. Are all the John Wooden's gone?
Two things - 1. Don't you think $5 million per year guaranteed through 2029 is enough salary to coach a football team? 2. Whatever happened to honoring an agreement? He let the players, the university and himself down by going for a cash grab.
Beaver fans will always trash knight school for the countless really great reasons their fans and administration keep manufacturing with breath taking regularity. Thanks for one more. whoregon is not a victim of un-warranted contempt. I find it laughable that all you schmuck fans marinate so deeply about what any Beaver fans say about you.
Smith did his job well, earned his money, and any reasons the Beaver football program is on a precipice have nothing to do with him.
May you experience interesting times in the BFD conference.
I see we're just being stupid rather than recognizing the obvious point that Smith left Oregon State in a much better position than they would have been without him.
There's plenty of blame to go around, but I assign more of the blame to USC and the two inept commissioners. Oregon and Washington panicked instead of taking leadership to shore up the conference. I still think they'll regret it down the line.
Disagree. They knowingly bailed knowing full well it'd not only destroy their instate counterparts with whom they don't have to compete with now that they've ruined them. But they also hurt communities economically. They're just as culpable knowing that the conference was going to begrudgingly stick together. But UW and Oregon just had to put the nails in the coffin on Aug 4th.
Understand your perspective and what's happening to OSU and WSU is just terrible and unfair. However, Oregon and Washington could never accept an Apple TV subscription based solution and be able to recruit nationally and remain competitive...that was a bridge too far. They had no choice.
Lol. There's those excuses again. It was literally almost the same money the conference was already earning plus it had incentives. Sure. Its not $70M big 10 money now... but linear TV will be dead, the only people hanging on to cable is boomers.
They had a choice. And they chose to SCREW 100 plus years of tradition.
Yeah, streaming may be the future in 3 to 5 years but in the near term a BS Apple deal in which NO players and recruits will be seen is a non starter. Kids and their parents will not sign up for that...they can go to Alabama, Michigan or Ohio St and be seen on Fox, CBS and ESPN or hope these lower income families can afford to watch their kids on streaming...not happening. Please make sure you tune into the minor league MLS soccer that's on there now...that's what would have become of the Pac 12...minor league with inferior players, full stop.
Tom, I agree completely- The Apple deal would have regelated the PAC to G5 status- Recruiting would have nose-dived, and $20mil vs $60mil a year? No argument- gotta leave
LOL... it's a non starter for baby boomers and people who apparently like to overpay for things. The comments you've made clearly demonstrate that you're not fully aware of what it entailed.
I'll just respond to people who can keep up with the convo from here on out. Thanks for self identifying.
I agree with everything you said except the shot you took at my generation. Boomers are a hell of a lot smarter than you think. Think before you write.
That generation has left the United States in financial ruin for the next generation with how they've lead this country in government, the workplace, as well as contributing to our cultural demise.
The Apple deal was better than everyone seems to think. It's all about $s anyway. I've lost interest in the whole joke college football has become. Lots of other entertainment to watch.
The apple deal would have meant no ESPN, no Fox, no discussion on game day or Big Noon Kickoff. Zero coverage for the average fan and it would have killed the Pac 12 over time.
None of those schools owe anything to the ones who couldn't find a new home. This shift to mega conferences started well before this year. If anything it's the PAC 12 commissioners fault for not securing a better media deal. Why are the schools who have the chance to move supposed to sit it out while everybody else are pulling in 10s of millions in media deals.
How did they hurt communities economically? That's BS. It's business, plain and simple. Wake up.
BS is right. You tell the people in Pullman it didn't hurt them economically who park cars at the church next to Martin Stadium to support youth groups who counted on money from USC and UCLA and other big schools coming to town and bringing their fans. Or the staff at restaurants, hotels, etc.
Or just keep making your completely uninformed comments. I think you'll choose the latter.
So people are going to stop going to games now? Very doubtful. People dont pay for season tickets just to watch the game, especially given all games are now televised. They go for the entire experience and that's not going to change because WAZZU is playing different teams.
People from other schools will still travel to watch their teams play. They will still rent hotel rooms, pay for meals, and other sundries
The sky isn't falling. Chill out, drink some more eggnog, and see where the chips fall
You have got to be kidding me. The beaver message boards are melting down with people who are done with college athletics. I know my friend won’t be getting $400 for game weekend at her Airbnb for a Fresno state game. The athletic department will cut jobs. Event staff will be cut in half. Enrollment will go down. I can’t believe you could be so clueless.
He's pretty consistently covered PNW teams. With respect to conference changes: He's recently said he's going to cover what his audience wants him to cover. Sounds like a good deal go me. Ive been following John for 10-15 years and I can say his content quality has gone way up since he started his own blog. Let's wait to see what he has for us this next year before making any judgment calls about his coverage.
He does seem to have gotten awfully quiet, to the detriment of civility among his circle of supporters. But I guess when there are sources to be serviced, no one if immune from playing the game....
Difference is the schools owe a duty to the fans and citizens of Oregon and Washington. Coaches do not. This will have adverse knock on effects for two college towns for decades.
columnist Jon Wilner: Oregon State fans should not blame Smith, Barnes or Murthy.
Former president Ed Ray a chief enabler of the failed Pac-12 policies that created this mess. More than anyone else connected to OSU over the past 6-8 years, he bears responsibility.
I think what Wilner was saying was that Ray had a leadership position on the Council and more influence than most of the other Pac Presidents at that point in time. For us fans, some of the details get lost over time. I remember reading columns about the first part of Scott's tenure and the fading influence of ADs as he kissed butts of the Presidents/Chancellors. Ray apparently was one who saw what he wanted to see rather than see the reality.
Not necessarily. His brand is everywhere and he knows it. I wish he would have funded a teaching hospital in Eugene that was his biggest opportunity to cement his legacy. It’s not too late however. Sacred Heart would be the perfect venue.
I argued (well disagreed with) John over a year ago, my opinion was Knight wanted to be in the big pond rather than stay in a deflted pac, John swore Knight wanted to stay where he could be the big dog .
Add Larry Scott, George Kliavkoff, the university presidents and various networks to that list. Larry Scott got the ball rolling years ago with his greed and incompetence. That was the beginning of the sinking ship.
It was no more Oregon and Washington's responsibility to stay to hold the conference together than it was Smith's to stay and hold Oregon State together.
Blaming people for protecting themselves in hard times is ridiculous.
Oregon and Washington knew that trying to headline a subscription based conference on a streaming only deal wasn't going to go well and looked out for their own futures. Blaming them for the circumstances others caused is unfair.
Yes, well stated. Unfortunately Michael and many others on here are so bitter and jealous they can't see this truth. I feel terrible for Beaver Nation. But feeling bad for them doesn't make your statements not true.
The fans aren't the ones who made the decision to move to the Big 10. As others have noted, it was a business decision, just as Smith's move to MSU was a business decision. Personally I'm not a fan of the move and as a Pac8-10-12 fan of over 40 years, I'm sad at the demise of the conference but I understand why Oregon and the other schools made their move. Too bad you don't see the big picture.
In reality, though, what is the big picture? They’re gaining in footbal but what will they be expending in other sports? Where are the projections of the net gain? At the end of the day, I suspect it will be a very small amount relative to the TOTAL revenue budget of these large universities. Worth it — remains to be seen?
Saying stupid things to the very people you're kicking while they're down like "sorry you don't see the big picture" is not only stupid, but completely callous. lol
It's impossible for me to refute arguments I haven't made, i.e. your strawman argument. I never said the fans made the decisions. But the fans sure acting like fools running around trying to defend being on the wrong side.
I sure hope you have fun next year figuring out who to dump on in your new conference. Rutgers? Northwestern? Indiana? Maryland?
Truly a naive response. Smith did what was in his best interests and so did all the other schools give the fiasco they were presented with. College athletics are not an altruistic endeavor. It's a business.
Boy do you have inverted priorities Larry. How old are you? I've noticed over the years that those who justify choices with, "It's business." are lacking experience and seasoning. Or else have never had to take leadership enough to learn what is truly most important..
I'm old enough to know that your response is naive. Some endeavors are altruistic where other considerations control. College athletics today isn't one of them, no matter how we wish it was.
I'm sure it's comforting, albeit rather lazy, to denigrate your already hated in state rival and point fingers everywhere but home, than actually taking time to understand the multiple layers of nuance and moving parts over several years that led to the conference imploding.
For example OSU's very own former president Ed Ray, who was one of the most vocal and chief enablers of failed commissioner Larry Scott and his disastrous (non)leadership.
There are many who are implicit in this mess. Falsely dumping the blame on the program you already despise to keep your conscience clear simply ignores reality.
LOL... I investigate aviation accidents for a living, literally my job to look at root causes and ask what were contributing, non contributing, contributing to the severity, and other factors.
If I were to map out the downfall of the Pac12, Oregon and UW 100% fall into the contributing category.
No false dumping or any other silly nuances you want to use when the information is available that on the morning of Aug 4th every other school was sitting on zoom waiting to begrudgingly approve a grant of rights for the sake of keeping the conference going, and UW and Oregon don't show up on time and there's rumors on the internet that they're going to the Big 10.
I'm sorry that facts bother you. Embrace that Oregon and UW are literally villains in this case, or just keeping making your excuses for everyone to see right through them.
Again, conveniently ignoring virtually everything while cherry picking what you want the narrative to be.
You're absolutely correct about the morning of August 4th, as if that morning was the only pretext to the conference' demise. Pretty narrow look at a situation that was evolving for years, don't you think?
I said there were many who were implicit in this mess and yes, Oregon and Washington contributed. To say they and they alone are the only reason the conference isn't whole is disingenuous.
I don't have a problem having Oregon and Washington being villains. I do have a problem you don't or won't recognize the many other villains who contributed to this debacle, including the former OSU president.
Yep, hours before the approval UW, Arizona, and UO get offers of a much better deal relative to visibility for their programs and money to support them. They did what they did for the interests of their schools....just as USC, UCLA and Colorado had done.
Oregon and UW literally don't get a full share until 2029 of big10 money. They screwed everyone to keep the roughly the same net revenue until that point. Colorado's revenue pans out to be about the same as well.....
Also, not true regarding Arizona. Bobby Robbins was ready to stay put in the Pac12 despite their Big12 overture if UW and Oregon hadn't left. You can look up Brett McMurphy's tweet at 6:45am on August 4th regarding that.
Or.... you can just keep making these blind excuses rather than accepting that UW and Oregon are villains in the demise of the Pac12.
Yep, but not OSU, nope they are innocent. Just because their long time President Ed Ray was complicit in keeping and enabling Larry Scott, well that’s all UO, USC & Washington’s fault.
We all know OSU is just a poor innocent bystander. It’s everybody else’s fault. 🙄
Frustrated, depressed Oregon State fans should not blame Smith, Barnes or Murthy.
Former president Ed Ray a chief enabler of the failed Pac-12 policies that created this mess. More than anyone else connected to OSU over the past 6-8 years, he bears responsibility.
As we've said before, responsibility for Pac-12 implosion is as follows:
I don't know about Olympia, but Salem gives OSU almost 80 million more dollars a year than it gives UO. If that is less than 2 crumpets, maybe you should buy less expensive pastry! This is about more than football or sports; it is about the operating models of two very distinct universities (UO and OSU). Simply put, national brand is much more important to UO than to OSU, and football is a big driver of that brand.
And my heart broke all over again. I've been a loyal member of Beaver Nation and a supporter of the PAC-8, 10 and 12 all my life. I'll continue to support OSU sports but damn it is painful sometimes.
At 44 he is at the peak of his coaching career. If his agent is doing his job, he knew what his options were. He is a thoughtful guy who would choose what he decided was his best option, IMO. I don't think it will work out well for him, but I wish him all the best.
Oh, booo hoooo. It's pathetic how much the dicks brood over the fact that there's not another fan base in CFB who can stand them. Be gone with you schmucks. We no longer have to give a flipping buck about the freaking schmucks. The one really positive by product of the whole stinking mess. Buh Bye. How can we miss you if the schmucks if they refuse to just go away.
Your right, you can’t possibly miss everything that happens with them because you will keep hearing about what they do. You won’t be able to resist or silence all the news. And you’ll cry with sorrow when they win and cry with joy when they lose. But what will be impossible is to ignore or forget about them!🤣🤣🤣 And this will happen whether or not they play the Civil War.
I would like to know more of the backstory here. There are rumors Smith told his team he was leaving the night before the Civil War. Also, Chiles did not play the third series yesterday and there is talk he chose to sit out of frustration or because he didn’t want to hurt himself before he transfers to Michigan State. I have tried to stay positive since Aug. 4 and look at the positive: an us against the world mentality, a great season, a potentially fun and creative schedule next year with new opponents. But I think we all felt that because Jonathan Smith was a Beaver — I mean, a legend here — he would stick it out with us. This just hurts.
Management was given all season to resolve a problem they were a contributor to causing. Instead, they wasted time with the rebuild the Pac-2 diversion, and did not present any viable solution. I would say Coach Smith did all he could have done. And any players that leave (and there will surely be some) too. But at some point you have to put on a life jacket and get into a life boat.
They can’t start the process of rebuilding until the court cases are all worked out with the conference assets. Smith left before he even knew what they were working with.
Smith is unlikely to succeed at MSU. His low-key personality, WITHOUT the hometown boy success story, is not likely to be adequate to attract and retain top recruits to that school. And he'll eventually face more pressure than he's ever had to deal with to win. I wish him well. But it's more likely to end up how Mike Riley did at Nebraska.
John , again you defuse the responsibility of what it means to be loyal and genuine. Agreed , many things led up to the latest dumpster fire at OSU. But I see no need to let a person off the hook for a calculated plan to dump OSU. You said you appreciated the way your interview went. What about the way his leaving submarined the team, fans and financial supporters. I agreed Civil War was a tough hill to climb for the Beavs this year. But it was evident the fix was in during the game, the UW/Beaver team was not present last night. How about you start calling out some of these poor actors instead of giving them a ,"Its just the way the world is today " shtick. Go Beavs!!!!!!
I generally like John's reporting, but I agree with you Fred. The Beavs literally tanked last night. They clearly knew what was happening. Smith did the team and program no favors on his way out the door. And I noticed too that Chiles did not play. Lots of people noticed that. A clear signal he is going into the portal and did not want to be injured in some meaningless way. I expect Martinez to also change his tune. Many of the top recruits will decommit. It will be tough until they find a new HC and get back to recruiting for a G5 level team
John you owe us more than this. Call JS out, this is a BS move. Beaver nation stayed with him and never complained through a slow initial 4-year start. He would have been let go at any Big 10 school. Finally in year 5 we have a solid season and this year we go backwards.
I am tired of the media giving him a free pass. He owes an explanation to Beaver Nation. No one was else was mentioning his name or offering him a Head Coaching job when he was the OC at the U of W for Chris Peterson. In fact he had been demoted to co-OC and Husky fans were questioning his ability as a play caller. He and Darell Revel the Sea Hawks OC at the time were being crucified on Seattle sports talk stations. Scott Barnes gave him a shot, stayed with him through a very slow start and some below average initial recruiting. He couldn't win a conference road game for years. He owed OSU, and in particular Scott Barnes, at least one more year to let Scott work through the hot mess thrown in his lap. JC you need to go after Johanthan to be straight up with Beaver Nation. He is never a head coach without Scott and the Beaver faithful welcoming him back.
Absolutely spot on. He is a true and absolutely exceptional journalist and a gentleman to boot. That’s a fine line to walk these days and he does it very well. I however think more like you do. I honestly believe East Lansing will be much tougher to accomplish anything. He had a mediocre quarterback and never substituted his proven winner off the bench. That is not good management in my book.
Smith is going to have to contend with an administration that is at sea, a faculty given to mistrust of the athletic department, ineffective recruiting vis-a-vis Michigan and an alumni base that is very difficult to please. I should also add, litigation in process that will affect the athletic department.
MSU, like OSU, is a means to an end. He hired the most conniving back-stabber in the college sports ecosystem and told him to get him to USC, and this is part of that process.
Totally agree. Completely inappropriate for JS to have said ANYTHING other than "No Comment, I'm focused on the Civil War game", if/when asked about any career changes he might be considering. In fact, it would have been nice if he hadn't been asked the question at all. And yeah, I guess that does explain the idiotic go-for-it on fourth in the first quarter down by what... only one TD? Not a cool way to leave your team of kids you supposedly love, JS.
He knew how everything was going to play out. He course was set even though he rode the fence. His players knew what was coming they played like it. Not willing to give JS a pass on how he drove the last nail into Beaver football. Don’t tell me he didn’t have choice that’s bs.
Media who allow agents and search firms to stoke anxiety in the shadows are complicit in outcomes like this one. The Carousel Industrial Complex is a big business, and media are scared to death not to play the game and get their piece. I thought John was above that, but I'm less sure than I once was.
Let's go JC!!! We give you kudos when you give us a great story now we are pushing you to be the pro journalist you are and go after JC. Ask him the tough questions. This was a classless move. OSU was offering a significant raise, he already had financial security and they were ready to lock in his staff financially Don't let him off the hook because you like him personally. He is never going to be back in the PNW you don't need him to keep rolling. Go after him and get the story.
You got it. And on that note, his golly-gee whiz likeability is probably what's going to cause his downfall at MSU when he doesn't get results fast enough. I'm kind of dumbfounded that JS doesn't seem to realize (or care?) that a big part of his success at OSU was because of his HISTORY of success at the school. I'm not knocking his coaching abilities, but he's not the kind of personality that really instills confidence in a new recruit. At least that's my opinion ;-)
And with him go the best and brightest that the Beavers have. Thus rendering a tough, proud program to the equivalent of an FCS expansion team. Smith's departure is just the first of many collateral damages that the PAC's demise will visit on OSU and Wazzu.
Miami, I doubt John will be covering the MWC and so we probably won't have much reason to converse in this forum, unless John starts covering ASU along with Utah for the B12. You are a great guy. I will miss the friendly repartee'
Brian, I hope that you maintain your subscription. If John knows his public, he'll continue to cover the former PAC teams. That makes sense to me. So, hopefully we'll continue to chat using this forum.
well, I renewed a month ago expecting a more positive outcome at Oregon State than what we are getting. I would not do so now, knowing what we know. I was curious to see what Barnes and Smith could cobble together. There were possibilities. Now, those are gone. OSU is in deep, deep trouble, athletically speaking. This is the worst case scenario I have described in the past, and even worse since I did not expect Smith to bail like he did right before the portal opens. Now, I am expecting almost all the talented players (higher 3s and all 4s) to leave the program because they can. The lower level players will not get any offers from other schools. But we are talking 3rd and 4th string players. Recruits will also bail and it seems unlikely there will be many new recruits between now and next summer, with no conference and no coaches. So OSU will have no players going into 2024 and may have to do a campus call for walk-ons just to field a team. This team will not even be able to compete at the G5 level and probably not at the FCS level either. So it will win zero games in 2024 no matter what else happens the next few months. The hole will be so deep that it might take 2-3 years to dig out since whenever a new coach is brought in with his assistants, they will still not have a conference. Whoever they bring in will be freshmen, of course (no transfers to this program). So they will have less talented freshman as starters for the next 2-3 years. Even in the G5 that will be a mismatch. Smith, like Oregon and Washington, screwed the Beavers. The one good thing: no TV games for the Beavers the next couple years so we don't have to watch this disaster
I just reached the point where I think OSU would be better off focusing on academics and OSU is very strong in many fields. This whole college football thing has gone off the rails and university leaders should be careful about pouring tons of money into what is a bottomless pit. i. am no longer a fan of major college football and long ago lost interest in the NFL.
We’ll played, Chip. My sentiments, exactly. A great academic organization being degraded with something that doesn’t really have anything to do with the mission. Charlie
This is an interesting take. When I moved to Oregon for grad school (1978), Oregon's undergrad was rated as a "C" school worse than than Oregon State. was a B school. Neither athletics were that big. I knew Oregon was getting much harder to get in and it wasn't until this realignment did I realize UO is now top 100 (#98) in the 2024 ratings while OSU is #142. https://www.usnews.com/best-colleges/rankings/national-universities
Not sure if its a chicken and egg thing athletics success which allowed UO to be more known nationally as well as the Knight money which has gone to a lot more than football & athletics. It turns out not only did the Big10 take big Athletic brands, they took schools all ranked high #15 UCLA, #28 USC, #40 UW, and UO who is better than only 1 Big 10 school. The ACC which is the only conference with a better academic rating took #3 Stanford & #15 Cal. The Big 12 schools taken from PAC were 7 through 10 in the PAC12 while WSU at #178 is the only PAC school that was rated worse than OSU. Maybe focusing on academic might help the Beavs.
Pretty much my thoughts, too, Chip. If major dollars had not just been spent (questionably, in hindsight) on Reser, I’d say just bag football altogether, as it’s going down a rathole anyway.
the way this was handled with the kids is a story in itself. Despite the rebuilding of the program the last week leaves worse than a bad taste in the mouth. Character, integrity, all of that nonsense, pitched out the window
I so agree with this. Feel like the kids have not been everyone’s first thought. Must’ve been tough playing at Oregon Friday night with the truth written on the wall.
I don’t really blame him with the uncertainty at OSU, but Michigan State is a bad job. He’ll never consistently compete with the top 5 big ten schools. He’ll be around .500 for a few years and get fired. Not sure fans would welcome him back to OSU, maybe over time. He should have stayed for a year and saw how things played out and if it didn’t a better job might have been available.
Totally agree...and I thought he would too. If he had stayed two more years and it didn't work, he would've still been in demand, with probably better options. MSU is and will always be, a middling Big10 team. I'd rather make 4 million in Corvallis than 6 in East Lansing...
If he can see the future like you contend he never should have called that fake field goal or some of the other boneheaded decisions he made over the past six seasons.
Absolutely correct. I mean I don't know what OSU's schedule will be next season, but chances would have been pretty good that OSU would have dominated. Don't see how JS would have nothing to lose and everything to gain by that situation, compared to what's most likely to happen to him at Mich State--which Rhett predicts acurately.
This realignment debacle just keeps crapping on the Beavs. I honestly don't know how they recover from this. I see a program that is more likely to whither down that leap forward.
I guess I understand, but MSU is at best a mid tier B10 job. He won't be revered unless he beats the big boys and I don't see that happening but once in a blue moon.
My last words were to be to J Smith, but I can't find my middle finger emoji.
There was similar doubt when Mike Riley left in 1998.
Doubt when Dennis Erickson left in 2003.
Riley in 2014
and now CJS in 2023.
I like the Trent Bray idea. OSU retains our DC and the haters can say goodbye to Lindgren. Beavers will win the Pac12 lawsuit and have enough money to rise above the situation. Damien Martinez thinks so, he's on board and coming back.
Just keep in mind that the Beavers are not going to have the allure of the PAC12 and a Power 5 program to attract coaching candidates. Recruits will likewise be lower down the talent list. Need to recalibrate expectations. Look at FSU and U-Nevada Reno for examples of what to expect. Here are the rankings for 2023 with Fresno at 83rd and Reno at 107th. Note that neither team has any 4 or 5 stars and the average score is 83.25 for FSU compared to Oregon State (49th) which was about 87. The Ducks, for comparison are over 90. Https://247sports.com/Season/2023-Football/CompositeTeamRankings/
Go back the last 5 years and check out the OSU recruiting. Very few NRs on the team. Very few 2s, for that matter. If you are relying on 2s and NRs, you aren't going to be competitive with a P4 program. Period. There is no conversation about this. It is demonstrable.
I have only the best wishes for Smith. Michigan State can be a great opportunity for both the coach and the school. He can thrive there. If there were still a PAC12 I'm sure Smith would still be there for many years. The other teams in the conference killed itself off. This has little to do with Smith or Oregon State. Smith staying would have made zero difference to the future that had already been decided by others.
We’ll played, Patrick. Jonathan is too young to be “playing out the string” for good money and comfortable living. Otherwise, like me, you look back over your career and count “ my five worst mistakes “. Just sayin’, Charlie
Wrong.... it is all about ego. Smith already had financial security with a $20-30M contract and more to come if he was loyal to his alma mater. I do not hold it against him. All the big time football HCs have giant egos. It goes with the turf. But this has nothing to do with any personal virtue of his.
I can't believe some of you posters. This "personal virtue" stuff is beyond the pale. This is how the world works--you work hard to build a value and you exploit it when opportunities arise. Reality! Signs of success. He didn't hurt anyone except the tender feelings of some Beaver fans that are getting a dose of what their REAL value is in the marketplace. It's never been equal to their Pac-12 rivals and now they're seeing that when the landscape changed. Don't excoriate Smith or his character for moving forward. This used to be something we applauded in this country. OSU will live on with or without a great football team.
When character and “personal virtue means “Chase more money” no matter what the cost, yes.
How about fulfilling the contract you agreed to? Where is the “personal integrity” in bolting and what that does to the program, the recruits, and most of the players. What about the fans and donors who
Pay for all of this? I wish you the best, as he now lives in the same universe you do. A world
where “get yours before they do”, rules the day. It’s also where what goes out, comes around. That day will come.
His deal changed. He agreed to lead a mediocre P5 team in hope that he could get them to a level equal to the top of the conference. He did. Then all this BS happened. That’s not what he signed up for, so he started looking. I don’t like this either, but to say it’s all about money isn’t really fair. Do u really think he would have bolted to MSU for an extra $1-$2M per year if none of this happened? Would he have left if ESPN would have agreed to $35M per team instead of folding their hand? Doubtful. I mean, I don’t know him personally but he doesn’t seem like a mercenary to me.
This is our world: the “Me, Me, Me” generation. $4.5M per year is just not enough. Gotta get more. Don’t know why since 20 years of $5M in Corvallis makes you the wealthiest man in town. But its never enough for guys like Scott
And he wants to compete at the highest level. I don't blame him either. Hanging around trying to make something happen at Oregon State has pretty low odds of success. Smith should be thanked for bringing the Beavers back to life after Andersen did so he could to destroy them single-handedly.
Because the Ohio State and Michigan jobs aren't open yet? Also those jobs will attract coaches with better resumes than Smith's is at this time. MSU has won the B1G three times in the last 13 years and plays in one of the two "superconferences". Which currently available openings have a significantly higher level than that?
I’m sure the exorbitant cost of living increase in Lansing is worth chasing the money bag. So much for loyalty to the school that gave you the opportunity. Just once, I would love to see an Oregon State football coach finish what they start…..Riley, Erickson, and now Smith. It doesn’t get much worse than losing your conference, your financial well being, and now your coaching staff and players. It’s just baffling that all this could happen to OSU when they have done everything above board and from the ground up. They didn’t hire a 90 million dollar crap coach, commit violations, and take on debt they couldn’t repay. Yet all the blows keep coming to them when they did nothing wrong, and we can do nothing but sit and watch.
Oregon State could have invested in a brand, but did not, at least not like the Ducks did. The Northwest schools are off the beaten path. A school has to do something special to stand out, especially as the top level contracts to 40 or fewer schools. By recruiting metrics, OSU has been running about 55th in the country for years, back to Riley days. Not enough name recognition
Yes, very wise investment by the Ducks. I think we all know what makes that possible. You are right about it paying off for Oregon, but I don’t think OSU has ever been remotely close to the same financial position. Now it’s about to get far worse.
Dude, check out real estate prices. His house in Corvallis will go for $1 million or so, and he'll buy something comparable for half that much in Michigan.
I’m well aware of the price differences from having family there. It’s always been a running joke with us because the quality of life in Corvallis versus Lansing doesn’t turn into much of a debate. At the end of the day, Oregon Stare is getting screwed about as bad as they possibly can from forces out of their control. It never should have come to this. A year ago, Michigan State was not a better job. I still don’t think it will be a better job, but Oregon State is literally going into a death spiral and everyone will be ejecting. It just sucks and will be a long time before we see any recovery.
This literally now makes me want to never watch college football again. I was holding out hope that Johnathan would stay and that stability would help OSU navigate the next couple years. Sure Johnathan’s departure was a result of all the abject greed and stupidity that’s been fully reported but I hope the network execs, the B1G and Big12 commissioners and respective Presidents, the Pac12 Presidents and the hubris of the schools that started the dominoes falling (USC, UW, UO) are truly happy. OSU always did things right, punched above their weight, was loyal to the league, has a wonderful sports history and has always had a strong moral compass and culture. We all know it’s unlikely to recover so I truly hope all these a-holes are happy. All for a few extra bucks. I’m sickened by them all.
Wow... Well Stated, TP!! Makes me feel a little better, to be reminded how damn loyal and committed we beavers are! I'll hold out hope that we'll make it through this mess.
I don’t hold any animosity for Jonathan Smith at all. He’s the least guilty in this disaster. Godspeed, Coach Smith. Thanks for all you did for OSU. We will never forget it.
Absolutely trash take.
Smith needed to stay at least one year. If the PAC2 experiment failed and he decided to leave, then no one would blame him. But have you seen the players Twitter posts, it's obvious he lied to them... Told them to stick with it for four months and blindsided them.
I hope whatever happens to the Beavs in the future also happens to Smiths career
They did stick with him for four months--the months of football season this fall. Jonathan Smith has been much more transparent about leaving than 99% of coaches have before him.
Transparent? He lied this week, he lied the day of the Civil War.
If Jonathan was a true Beaver he would have stuck around for a year and see if this ship and be settled.
Now in four month the carcass has been picked clean.
Here we go! Now Beaver fans will trash Smith, just like they trash Oregon for their jump to B1G.
Doesn't have to be called trashing Smith. He did a great job the last two years but left with mediocre 34-35 record and then jumped ship because he didn't like the odds of staying and fighting. Doesn't that make him a quitter? What else can you call it with some sugar coating? Wonder what kind of Rah-Rah speech he gave to his team before the Oregon game? "Win it for each other, win it for Oregon State!" Wonder how he felt at that moment knowing he was gone. Are all the John Wooden's gone?
Are you willing or were you willing to help with a pay increase of about $4 mil yearly and donate big for NIL?
Two things - 1. Don't you think $5 million per year guaranteed through 2029 is enough salary to coach a football team? 2. Whatever happened to honoring an agreement? He let the players, the university and himself down by going for a cash grab.
All the John Woodens are not gone, they just coach for winning schools where they’re paid more money. It’s a different world.
Examples please. Dan Manning is a good one, I know.
Dana Altman, Chip Kelly, Kyle Whittingham, and dozens more.
Beaver fans will always trash knight school for the countless really great reasons their fans and administration keep manufacturing with breath taking regularity. Thanks for one more. whoregon is not a victim of un-warranted contempt. I find it laughable that all you schmuck fans marinate so deeply about what any Beaver fans say about you.
Smith did his job well, earned his money, and any reasons the Beaver football program is on a precipice have nothing to do with him.
May you experience interesting times in the BFD conference.
hah...A typical Beaver hypocrite...YOU have NO justification for calling ANYONE bitter...EVER!
Have a happy holiday. I hope Grant will be able to recover from your questionable influences.
If the shoe fits...
Perfectly stated, Jean!
Imagine Oregon State's current outlook of Smith never joined and they were still a 4 win program.
Do you think the moon is really made out of green cheese?
What if it was made out of ribs?
Would you eat it?
I would.
With a tall Budweiser.
I see we're just being stupid rather than recognizing the obvious point that Smith left Oregon State in a much better position than they would have been without him.
Chill dude. Sorry you don't appreciate a little levity. I happen to agree with you.
I thought Bud got cancelled. Oh, that was Bud Light. Carry on
And then what if Darth Vader stopped Luke and the Death Star never blew up. SMH.
Stop shaking your head...it's affecting your thinking abilities.
UW, Oregon, USC, and UCLA can truly go to hell for wrecking the conference.
There's plenty of blame to go around, but I assign more of the blame to USC and the two inept commissioners. Oregon and Washington panicked instead of taking leadership to shore up the conference. I still think they'll regret it down the line.
Disagree. They knowingly bailed knowing full well it'd not only destroy their instate counterparts with whom they don't have to compete with now that they've ruined them. But they also hurt communities economically. They're just as culpable knowing that the conference was going to begrudgingly stick together. But UW and Oregon just had to put the nails in the coffin on Aug 4th.
Understand your perspective and what's happening to OSU and WSU is just terrible and unfair. However, Oregon and Washington could never accept an Apple TV subscription based solution and be able to recruit nationally and remain competitive...that was a bridge too far. They had no choice.
Lol. There's those excuses again. It was literally almost the same money the conference was already earning plus it had incentives. Sure. Its not $70M big 10 money now... but linear TV will be dead, the only people hanging on to cable is boomers.
They had a choice. And they chose to SCREW 100 plus years of tradition.
Yeah, streaming may be the future in 3 to 5 years but in the near term a BS Apple deal in which NO players and recruits will be seen is a non starter. Kids and their parents will not sign up for that...they can go to Alabama, Michigan or Ohio St and be seen on Fox, CBS and ESPN or hope these lower income families can afford to watch their kids on streaming...not happening. Please make sure you tune into the minor league MLS soccer that's on there now...that's what would have become of the Pac 12...minor league with inferior players, full stop.
Tom, I agree completely- The Apple deal would have regelated the PAC to G5 status- Recruiting would have nose-dived, and $20mil vs $60mil a year? No argument- gotta leave
LOL... it's a non starter for baby boomers and people who apparently like to overpay for things. The comments you've made clearly demonstrate that you're not fully aware of what it entailed.
I'll just respond to people who can keep up with the convo from here on out. Thanks for self identifying.
I agree with everything you said except the shot you took at my generation. Boomers are a hell of a lot smarter than you think. Think before you write.
That generation has left the United States in financial ruin for the next generation with how they've lead this country in government, the workplace, as well as contributing to our cultural demise.
Respectfully disagree.
Of course they had a choice. They chose fear and greed and money over the more valuable intangibles. Live by the sword, die by the sword.
Streaming is trending to overtake broadcast and cable. Soon. The karma is going to be interesting to watch.
you do realize if the pac 10 had taken the 30 m from espn, no money would have been left for B12 and the reverse would have happened
There are always choices in life. And we have to live with them.
The Apple deal was better than everyone seems to think. It's all about $s anyway. I've lost interest in the whole joke college football has become. Lots of other entertainment to watch.
The apple deal would have meant no ESPN, no Fox, no discussion on game day or Big Noon Kickoff. Zero coverage for the average fan and it would have killed the Pac 12 over time.
recruits want to be on linear tv every week
For starters that's not true. Apple could have sold games to other networks... it literally happens all the time.
Disagree. The future lies ahed. Cable will be dead in five years.
None of those schools owe anything to the ones who couldn't find a new home. This shift to mega conferences started well before this year. If anything it's the PAC 12 commissioners fault for not securing a better media deal. Why are the schools who have the chance to move supposed to sit it out while everybody else are pulling in 10s of millions in media deals.
How did they hurt communities economically? That's BS. It's business, plain and simple. Wake up.
BS is right. You tell the people in Pullman it didn't hurt them economically who park cars at the church next to Martin Stadium to support youth groups who counted on money from USC and UCLA and other big schools coming to town and bringing their fans. Or the staff at restaurants, hotels, etc.
Or just keep making your completely uninformed comments. I think you'll choose the latter.
So people are going to stop going to games now? Very doubtful. People dont pay for season tickets just to watch the game, especially given all games are now televised. They go for the entire experience and that's not going to change because WAZZU is playing different teams.
People from other schools will still travel to watch their teams play. They will still rent hotel rooms, pay for meals, and other sundries
The sky isn't falling. Chill out, drink some more eggnog, and see where the chips fall
You have got to be kidding me. The beaver message boards are melting down with people who are done with college athletics. I know my friend won’t be getting $400 for game weekend at her Airbnb for a Fresno state game. The athletic department will cut jobs. Event staff will be cut in half. Enrollment will go down. I can’t believe you could be so clueless.
You think that a school going from a Pac12 schedule to a Mountain West esque type schedule is going to keep the same interest and vigor?
I've let you troll me long enough with these low information comments you've been making.
Bravo on the troll job, or you're just that ignorant.
Oregon and Washington did the same thing Smith just did...looked at the situation and went to the Big 10.
Apples and oranges.
Apples and Apples
You could also say that John Canzano just went to the B1G, since the teams he most covers are going there.
He's pretty consistently covered PNW teams. With respect to conference changes: He's recently said he's going to cover what his audience wants him to cover. Sounds like a good deal go me. Ive been following John for 10-15 years and I can say his content quality has gone way up since he started his own blog. Let's wait to see what he has for us this next year before making any judgment calls about his coverage.
He does seem to have gotten awfully quiet, to the detriment of civility among his circle of supporters. But I guess when there are sources to be serviced, no one if immune from playing the game....
I think Bob Dylan said it best:
You may be a state trooper, you might be a young Turk
You may be the head of some big TV network
You may be rich or poor, you may be blind or lame
You may be livin' in another country under another name
But you're gonna have to serve somebody, yes, you are
You're gonna have to serve somebody (serve somebody)
Well, it may be the Devil or it may be the Lord
But you're gonna have to serve somebody (serve somebody)
Subscriber's and access....
Difference is the schools owe a duty to the fans and citizens of Oregon and Washington. Coaches do not. This will have adverse knock on effects for two college towns for decades.
columnist Jon Wilner: Oregon State fans should not blame Smith, Barnes or Murthy.
Former president Ed Ray a chief enabler of the failed Pac-12 policies that created this mess. More than anyone else connected to OSU over the past 6-8 years, he bears responsibility.
In what way?
Your argument regarding Ed Ray doesn't hold water when there were literally 11 other voting members of the conference.
I think what Wilner was saying was that Ray had a leadership position on the Council and more influence than most of the other Pac Presidents at that point in time. For us fans, some of the details get lost over time. I remember reading columns about the first part of Scott's tenure and the fading influence of ADs as he kissed butts of the Presidents/Chancellors. Ray apparently was one who saw what he wanted to see rather than see the reality.
As I recall, Ed Ray was a big Larry Scott supporter.
So was every other Pac-12 president.
I blame USC the most. They colluded with fox sports and started this all.
The Commissioners all reported to the University Presidents
...can not get past that blame
If Phil Knight wasn’t ok with this, he could and would have stopped it.
Not necessarily. His brand is everywhere and he knows it. I wish he would have funded a teaching hospital in Eugene that was his biggest opportunity to cement his legacy. It’s not too late however. Sacred Heart would be the perfect venue.
He did. It's called OHSU.
You give Uncle Phil a lot more power than he has, but you can bet he did endorse this move.
I argued (well disagreed with) John over a year ago, my opinion was Knight wanted to be in the big pond rather than stay in a deflted pac, John swore Knight wanted to stay where he could be the big dog .
He had to give it his blessing or it wouldn’t have happened.
You mean the Oregon Corhuskers?
Add Larry Scott, George Kliavkoff, the university presidents and various networks to that list. Larry Scott got the ball rolling years ago with his greed and incompetence. That was the beginning of the sinking ship.
At the eleventh hour, UW and Oregon could've kept the conference together and they didn't.
They're truly the worst of the worst for putting the finishing blow on conference and I hope nothing but awful things for their future.
It was no more Oregon and Washington's responsibility to stay to hold the conference together than it was Smith's to stay and hold Oregon State together.
Blaming people for protecting themselves in hard times is ridiculous.
Oregon and Washington knew that trying to headline a subscription based conference on a streaming only deal wasn't going to go well and looked out for their own futures. Blaming them for the circumstances others caused is unfair.
Yes, well stated. Unfortunately Michael and many others on here are so bitter and jealous they can't see this truth. I feel terrible for Beaver Nation. But feeling bad for them doesn't make your statements not true.
Lol. These excuses are hilarious. Protect themselves from what? Not having as big of a scrooge mccduck money bin? GTFO with these dumb excuses.
I can't wait for UW and Oregon fans to complain in a couple years when their new conference isn't as great as they thought it'd be.
Who is literally going to tune in for these games versus Indiana... Northwestern, Rutgers, Maryland...? Trash football, and other trash sports.
The fans aren't the ones who made the decision to move to the Big 10. As others have noted, it was a business decision, just as Smith's move to MSU was a business decision. Personally I'm not a fan of the move and as a Pac8-10-12 fan of over 40 years, I'm sad at the demise of the conference but I understand why Oregon and the other schools made their move. Too bad you don't see the big picture.
In reality, though, what is the big picture? They’re gaining in footbal but what will they be expending in other sports? Where are the projections of the net gain? At the end of the day, I suspect it will be a very small amount relative to the TOTAL revenue budget of these large universities. Worth it — remains to be seen?
Saying stupid things to the very people you're kicking while they're down like "sorry you don't see the big picture" is not only stupid, but completely callous. lol
It's impossible for me to refute arguments I haven't made, i.e. your strawman argument. I never said the fans made the decisions. But the fans sure acting like fools running around trying to defend being on the wrong side.
I sure hope you have fun next year figuring out who to dump on in your new conference. Rutgers? Northwestern? Indiana? Maryland?
Keep making those excuses for being the villains.
Yeah, the prudent thing for Oregon leadership would have been to risk their own colleges future to save another. 🤪🤪🤪
Oh yeah... they were in such dire straits with all their Nike money. I get that you're trolling, or possibly just completely inept.
We’re talking football here oh bright one.🤡
You wouldn't know football talk from a hole in the ground. Nice picture of yourself you posted.
Truly a naive response. Smith did what was in his best interests and so did all the other schools give the fiasco they were presented with. College athletics are not an altruistic endeavor. It's a business.
The “fiasco”they were presented should be changed to the fiasco that was “created” by the two “no shows” at the infamous Friday AM meeting
Boy do you have inverted priorities Larry. How old are you? I've noticed over the years that those who justify choices with, "It's business." are lacking experience and seasoning. Or else have never had to take leadership enough to learn what is truly most important..
I'm old enough to know that your response is naive. Some endeavors are altruistic where other considerations control. College athletics today isn't one of them, no matter how we wish it was.
It's possible to play life, business, and athletics, as a win/win game.
I'm sure it's comforting, albeit rather lazy, to denigrate your already hated in state rival and point fingers everywhere but home, than actually taking time to understand the multiple layers of nuance and moving parts over several years that led to the conference imploding.
For example OSU's very own former president Ed Ray, who was one of the most vocal and chief enablers of failed commissioner Larry Scott and his disastrous (non)leadership.
There are many who are implicit in this mess. Falsely dumping the blame on the program you already despise to keep your conscience clear simply ignores reality.
LOL... I investigate aviation accidents for a living, literally my job to look at root causes and ask what were contributing, non contributing, contributing to the severity, and other factors.
If I were to map out the downfall of the Pac12, Oregon and UW 100% fall into the contributing category.
No false dumping or any other silly nuances you want to use when the information is available that on the morning of Aug 4th every other school was sitting on zoom waiting to begrudgingly approve a grant of rights for the sake of keeping the conference going, and UW and Oregon don't show up on time and there's rumors on the internet that they're going to the Big 10.
I'm sorry that facts bother you. Embrace that Oregon and UW are literally villains in this case, or just keeping making your excuses for everyone to see right through them.
Again, conveniently ignoring virtually everything while cherry picking what you want the narrative to be.
You're absolutely correct about the morning of August 4th, as if that morning was the only pretext to the conference' demise. Pretty narrow look at a situation that was evolving for years, don't you think?
I said there were many who were implicit in this mess and yes, Oregon and Washington contributed. To say they and they alone are the only reason the conference isn't whole is disingenuous.
I don't have a problem having Oregon and Washington being villains. I do have a problem you don't or won't recognize the many other villains who contributed to this debacle, including the former OSU president.
Yep, hours before the approval UW, Arizona, and UO get offers of a much better deal relative to visibility for their programs and money to support them. They did what they did for the interests of their schools....just as USC, UCLA and Colorado had done.
Oregon and UW literally don't get a full share until 2029 of big10 money. They screwed everyone to keep the roughly the same net revenue until that point. Colorado's revenue pans out to be about the same as well.....
Also, not true regarding Arizona. Bobby Robbins was ready to stay put in the Pac12 despite their Big12 overture if UW and Oregon hadn't left. You can look up Brett McMurphy's tweet at 6:45am on August 4th regarding that.
Or.... you can just keep making these blind excuses rather than accepting that UW and Oregon are villains in the demise of the Pac12.
enjoy your pity , nobody cares what you feel
You're wrong on two counts. What pity? And apparently you cared enough to type a sentence
with weird spaces around your comma.
It was SC, UW and UO that pushed for GK per UW president... So yeah its all on those three
So are you adding coach Smith to your list of B1G jumpers to hate?
Give it a rest. Enjoy your success instead of continuing the genetic pre-disposition of schmuck fans for being really bad winners.
Canzano left that out didn't he.
So Colorado is blameless even though they left before Oregon & Washington.
Colorado never won anything in any sport as a member of the PAC-12.
Their departure improved the conference.
Yep, but not OSU, nope they are innocent. Just because their long time President Ed Ray was complicit in keeping and enabling Larry Scott, well that’s all UO, USC & Washington’s fault.
We all know OSU is just a poor innocent bystander. It’s everybody else’s fault. 🙄
Another inept response. There were 12 voting members of the conference. But its Ed Ray now? Lmao
From Jon Wilner on X earlier today:
Frustrated, depressed Oregon State fans should not blame Smith, Barnes or Murthy.
Former president Ed Ray a chief enabler of the failed Pac-12 policies that created this mess. More than anyone else connected to OSU over the past 6-8 years, he bears responsibility.
As we've said before, responsibility for Pac-12 implosion is as follows:
51% presidents
25% Kliavkoff
24% Scott
(atop list of presidents: Crow, Ray and Block)
You should read more
Heed your own advice, as you clearly can't see past your excuses.
All 12 of the recent UO presidents supported Larry Scott. Every single one of them.
Boards have leaders. Ray was the long incumbent vocal leader.
For some reason you and others
have left out the Salem and Olympia legislature’s?
Unlike the Arizona government
neither northwest State Capitol clowns required their PAC 12
members to stay attached.
Obviously Salem and Olympia give
two crumpets about Corvallis and
Pullman or their school’s fans.
Afterall, the two circus’s are dictated by disgraceful Portland and Seattle special interests.
Pathetic!
I don't know about Olympia, but Salem gives OSU almost 80 million more dollars a year than it gives UO. If that is less than 2 crumpets, maybe you should buy less expensive pastry! This is about more than football or sports; it is about the operating models of two very distinct universities (UO and OSU). Simply put, national brand is much more important to UO than to OSU, and football is a big driver of that brand.
Absolutely
And my heart broke all over again. I've been a loyal member of Beaver Nation and a supporter of the PAC-8, 10 and 12 all my life. I'll continue to support OSU sports but damn it is painful sometimes.
I don't blame or vilify Smith at all. He would not be leaving if the PAC hadn't imploded. I'm just sad at the results.
Just wonder why Michigan State
At 44 he is at the peak of his coaching career. If his agent is doing his job, he knew what his options were. He is a thoughtful guy who would choose what he decided was his best option, IMO. I don't think it will work out well for him, but I wish him all the best.
Especially because we all believed in Smiths snake oil
At least you now have someone else to hate besides the Ducks!😃
Oh, booo hoooo. It's pathetic how much the dicks brood over the fact that there's not another fan base in CFB who can stand them. Be gone with you schmucks. We no longer have to give a flipping buck about the freaking schmucks. The one really positive by product of the whole stinking mess. Buh Bye. How can we miss you if the schmucks if they refuse to just go away.
Your right, you can’t possibly miss everything that happens with them because you will keep hearing about what they do. You won’t be able to resist or silence all the news. And you’ll cry with sorrow when they win and cry with joy when they lose. But what will be impossible is to ignore or forget about them!🤣🤣🤣 And this will happen whether or not they play the Civil War.
Truly do not give a flying F.
Talk to the hand emoji dickwit.
I would like to know more of the backstory here. There are rumors Smith told his team he was leaving the night before the Civil War. Also, Chiles did not play the third series yesterday and there is talk he chose to sit out of frustration or because he didn’t want to hurt himself before he transfers to Michigan State. I have tried to stay positive since Aug. 4 and look at the positive: an us against the world mentality, a great season, a potentially fun and creative schedule next year with new opponents. But I think we all felt that because Jonathan Smith was a Beaver — I mean, a legend here — he would stick it out with us. This just hurts.
Management was given all season to resolve a problem they were a contributor to causing. Instead, they wasted time with the rebuild the Pac-2 diversion, and did not present any viable solution. I would say Coach Smith did all he could have done. And any players that leave (and there will surely be some) too. But at some point you have to put on a life jacket and get into a life boat.
Isn't it supposed to be women and children into the life boats 1st?
They can’t start the process of rebuilding until the court cases are all worked out with the conference assets. Smith left before he even knew what they were working with.
Chiles was healthy and not injured. Those Tha were dont play worried about injuries already have minor injuries that could be worse.
Smith is unlikely to succeed at MSU. His low-key personality, WITHOUT the hometown boy success story, is not likely to be adequate to attract and retain top recruits to that school. And he'll eventually face more pressure than he's ever had to deal with to win. I wish him well. But it's more likely to end up how Mike Riley did at Nebraska.
John , again you defuse the responsibility of what it means to be loyal and genuine. Agreed , many things led up to the latest dumpster fire at OSU. But I see no need to let a person off the hook for a calculated plan to dump OSU. You said you appreciated the way your interview went. What about the way his leaving submarined the team, fans and financial supporters. I agreed Civil War was a tough hill to climb for the Beavs this year. But it was evident the fix was in during the game, the UW/Beaver team was not present last night. How about you start calling out some of these poor actors instead of giving them a ,"Its just the way the world is today " shtick. Go Beavs!!!!!!
I generally like John's reporting, but I agree with you Fred. The Beavs literally tanked last night. They clearly knew what was happening. Smith did the team and program no favors on his way out the door. And I noticed too that Chiles did not play. Lots of people noticed that. A clear signal he is going into the portal and did not want to be injured in some meaningless way. I expect Martinez to also change his tune. Many of the top recruits will decommit. It will be tough until they find a new HC and get back to recruiting for a G5 level team
Martinez said today he is still staying.
Hope Chile's stays too
Right on Fred!!!
John you owe us more than this. Call JS out, this is a BS move. Beaver nation stayed with him and never complained through a slow initial 4-year start. He would have been let go at any Big 10 school. Finally in year 5 we have a solid season and this year we go backwards.
Exactly! We tend to give coaches who are nice and pleasant interview a free ride when it comes to situations such as this.
I am tired of the media giving him a free pass. He owes an explanation to Beaver Nation. No one was else was mentioning his name or offering him a Head Coaching job when he was the OC at the U of W for Chris Peterson. In fact he had been demoted to co-OC and Husky fans were questioning his ability as a play caller. He and Darell Revel the Sea Hawks OC at the time were being crucified on Seattle sports talk stations. Scott Barnes gave him a shot, stayed with him through a very slow start and some below average initial recruiting. He couldn't win a conference road game for years. He owed OSU, and in particular Scott Barnes, at least one more year to let Scott work through the hot mess thrown in his lap. JC you need to go after Johanthan to be straight up with Beaver Nation. He is never a head coach without Scott and the Beaver faithful welcoming him back.
Absolutely spot on. He is a true and absolutely exceptional journalist and a gentleman to boot. That’s a fine line to walk these days and he does it very well. I however think more like you do. I honestly believe East Lansing will be much tougher to accomplish anything. He had a mediocre quarterback and never substituted his proven winner off the bench. That is not good management in my book.
Smith is going to have to contend with an administration that is at sea, a faculty given to mistrust of the athletic department, ineffective recruiting vis-a-vis Michigan and an alumni base that is very difficult to please. I should also add, litigation in process that will affect the athletic department.
MSU, like OSU, is a means to an end. He hired the most conniving back-stabber in the college sports ecosystem and told him to get him to USC, and this is part of that process.
He'll suck at USC if he every makes it there. Sorry, but JS does not have the necessary charisma required for a school such as USC.
You are right, highly unlikely he ever gets USC. But that's his goal, and he's going after it, his alma mater be damned.
Are you speaking of Smith’s agent?
Totally agree. Completely inappropriate for JS to have said ANYTHING other than "No Comment, I'm focused on the Civil War game", if/when asked about any career changes he might be considering. In fact, it would have been nice if he hadn't been asked the question at all. And yeah, I guess that does explain the idiotic go-for-it on fourth in the first quarter down by what... only one TD? Not a cool way to leave your team of kids you supposedly love, JS.
I don't understand. How was the "fix" in? What do you mean exactly?
He knew how everything was going to play out. He course was set even though he rode the fence. His players knew what was coming they played like it. Not willing to give JS a pass on how he drove the last nail into Beaver football. Don’t tell me he didn’t have choice that’s bs.
You are spot on Fred!!!
Media who allow agents and search firms to stoke anxiety in the shadows are complicit in outcomes like this one. The Carousel Industrial Complex is a big business, and media are scared to death not to play the game and get their piece. I thought John was above that, but I'm less sure than I once was.
I agree with you Joe.
Let's go JC!!! We give you kudos when you give us a great story now we are pushing you to be the pro journalist you are and go after JC. Ask him the tough questions. This was a classless move. OSU was offering a significant raise, he already had financial security and they were ready to lock in his staff financially Don't let him off the hook because you like him personally. He is never going to be back in the PNW you don't need him to keep rolling. Go after him and get the story.
You got it. And on that note, his golly-gee whiz likeability is probably what's going to cause his downfall at MSU when he doesn't get results fast enough. I'm kind of dumbfounded that JS doesn't seem to realize (or care?) that a big part of his success at OSU was because of his HISTORY of success at the school. I'm not knocking his coaching abilities, but he's not the kind of personality that really instills confidence in a new recruit. At least that's my opinion ;-)
Accurate and well said Matthew!
This
And with him go the best and brightest that the Beavers have. Thus rendering a tough, proud program to the equivalent of an FCS expansion team. Smith's departure is just the first of many collateral damages that the PAC's demise will visit on OSU and Wazzu.
Miami, I doubt John will be covering the MWC and so we probably won't have much reason to converse in this forum, unless John starts covering ASU along with Utah for the B12. You are a great guy. I will miss the friendly repartee'
Notice how he blames everyone except Oregon et al.
Yes. Noticed. I think that is just pragmatism: “don’t bite the hand that feeds you”.
Brian, I hope that you maintain your subscription. If John knows his public, he'll continue to cover the former PAC teams. That makes sense to me. So, hopefully we'll continue to chat using this forum.
well, I renewed a month ago expecting a more positive outcome at Oregon State than what we are getting. I would not do so now, knowing what we know. I was curious to see what Barnes and Smith could cobble together. There were possibilities. Now, those are gone. OSU is in deep, deep trouble, athletically speaking. This is the worst case scenario I have described in the past, and even worse since I did not expect Smith to bail like he did right before the portal opens. Now, I am expecting almost all the talented players (higher 3s and all 4s) to leave the program because they can. The lower level players will not get any offers from other schools. But we are talking 3rd and 4th string players. Recruits will also bail and it seems unlikely there will be many new recruits between now and next summer, with no conference and no coaches. So OSU will have no players going into 2024 and may have to do a campus call for walk-ons just to field a team. This team will not even be able to compete at the G5 level and probably not at the FCS level either. So it will win zero games in 2024 no matter what else happens the next few months. The hole will be so deep that it might take 2-3 years to dig out since whenever a new coach is brought in with his assistants, they will still not have a conference. Whoever they bring in will be freshmen, of course (no transfers to this program). So they will have less talented freshman as starters for the next 2-3 years. Even in the G5 that will be a mismatch. Smith, like Oregon and Washington, screwed the Beavers. The one good thing: no TV games for the Beavers the next couple years so we don't have to watch this disaster
I just reached the point where I think OSU would be better off focusing on academics and OSU is very strong in many fields. This whole college football thing has gone off the rails and university leaders should be careful about pouring tons of money into what is a bottomless pit. i. am no longer a fan of major college football and long ago lost interest in the NFL.
We’ll played, Chip. My sentiments, exactly. A great academic organization being degraded with something that doesn’t really have anything to do with the mission. Charlie
I couldn't have said it better myself, Rosie. You're postings in here or something I look forward to keep on playing.
Thanks.
This is an interesting take. When I moved to Oregon for grad school (1978), Oregon's undergrad was rated as a "C" school worse than than Oregon State. was a B school. Neither athletics were that big. I knew Oregon was getting much harder to get in and it wasn't until this realignment did I realize UO is now top 100 (#98) in the 2024 ratings while OSU is #142. https://www.usnews.com/best-colleges/rankings/national-universities
Not sure if its a chicken and egg thing athletics success which allowed UO to be more known nationally as well as the Knight money which has gone to a lot more than football & athletics. It turns out not only did the Big10 take big Athletic brands, they took schools all ranked high #15 UCLA, #28 USC, #40 UW, and UO who is better than only 1 Big 10 school. The ACC which is the only conference with a better academic rating took #3 Stanford & #15 Cal. The Big 12 schools taken from PAC were 7 through 10 in the PAC12 while WSU at #178 is the only PAC school that was rated worse than OSU. Maybe focusing on academic might help the Beavs.
well said Chip!
No kidding. OSU sure can proudly kick UO's ass in a TON of ways, when it comes to academics!
Pretty much my thoughts, too, Chip. If major dollars had not just been spent (questionably, in hindsight) on Reser, I’d say just bag football altogether, as it’s going down a rathole anyway.
the way this was handled with the kids is a story in itself. Despite the rebuilding of the program the last week leaves worse than a bad taste in the mouth. Character, integrity, all of that nonsense, pitched out the window
I so agree with this. Feel like the kids have not been everyone’s first thought. Must’ve been tough playing at Oregon Friday night with the truth written on the wall.
Reading the players reaction tweets is heartbreaking
I don’t really blame him with the uncertainty at OSU, but Michigan State is a bad job. He’ll never consistently compete with the top 5 big ten schools. He’ll be around .500 for a few years and get fired. Not sure fans would welcome him back to OSU, maybe over time. He should have stayed for a year and saw how things played out and if it didn’t a better job might have been available.
Totally agree...and I thought he would too. If he had stayed two more years and it didn't work, he would've still been in demand, with probably better options. MSU is and will always be, a middling Big10 team. I'd rather make 4 million in Corvallis than 6 in East Lansing...
Ever consider that he already sees how things are going to play out?
If he can see the future like you contend he never should have called that fake field goal or some of the other boneheaded decisions he made over the past six seasons.
No one knows how things are going to play out.
He'll be another Charlie Strong or Scott Frost
Great comment JHC! This is spot on!!!
My thoughts exactly!!!
He will not be welcomed back at OSU in the future. He is dead to us!!
Absolutely correct. I mean I don't know what OSU's schedule will be next season, but chances would have been pretty good that OSU would have dominated. Don't see how JS would have nothing to lose and everything to gain by that situation, compared to what's most likely to happen to him at Mich State--which Rhett predicts acurately.
This realignment debacle just keeps crapping on the Beavs. I honestly don't know how they recover from this. I see a program that is more likely to whither down that leap forward.
I guess I understand, but MSU is at best a mid tier B10 job. He won't be revered unless he beats the big boys and I don't see that happening but once in a blue moon.
My last words were to be to J Smith, but I can't find my middle finger emoji.
Go Beavs always.
Beaver Nation will survive and prosper.
There was similar doubt when Mike Riley left in 1998.
Doubt when Dennis Erickson left in 2003.
Riley in 2014
and now CJS in 2023.
I like the Trent Bray idea. OSU retains our DC and the haters can say goodbye to Lindgren. Beavers will win the Pac12 lawsuit and have enough money to rise above the situation. Damien Martinez thinks so, he's on board and coming back.
I hope so, but it sure isn't looking like it
That was different. We were still in a power 5 conference.
The 247 rankings include G5 programs. They are a good benchmark of where recruiting will go.
Just keep in mind that the Beavers are not going to have the allure of the PAC12 and a Power 5 program to attract coaching candidates. Recruits will likewise be lower down the talent list. Need to recalibrate expectations. Look at FSU and U-Nevada Reno for examples of what to expect. Here are the rankings for 2023 with Fresno at 83rd and Reno at 107th. Note that neither team has any 4 or 5 stars and the average score is 83.25 for FSU compared to Oregon State (49th) which was about 87. The Ducks, for comparison are over 90. Https://247sports.com/Season/2023-Football/CompositeTeamRankings/
There are so many good players out there without stars by their names. Riley was good at finding them and Smith seemed to be able to.
Go back the last 5 years and check out the OSU recruiting. Very few NRs on the team. Very few 2s, for that matter. If you are relying on 2s and NRs, you aren't going to be competitive with a P4 program. Period. There is no conversation about this. It is demonstrable.
Bray is gone.
I like the optimism!!
As a Beavers guy I feel like i'm on the Titanic...I wish Larry Scott and George K. were there instead
I have only the best wishes for Smith. Michigan State can be a great opportunity for both the coach and the school. He can thrive there. If there were still a PAC12 I'm sure Smith would still be there for many years. The other teams in the conference killed itself off. This has little to do with Smith or Oregon State. Smith staying would have made zero difference to the future that had already been decided by others.
We’ll played, Patrick. Jonathan is too young to be “playing out the string” for good money and comfortable living. Otherwise, like me, you look back over your career and count “ my five worst mistakes “. Just sayin’, Charlie
I wish I could be upset with Jonathan Smith. But in my heart, this is a move about security. Isn't that something we all want?
6 years and 30+ million seem like security to me
Wrong.... it is all about ego. Smith already had financial security with a $20-30M contract and more to come if he was loyal to his alma mater. I do not hold it against him. All the big time football HCs have giant egos. It goes with the turf. But this has nothing to do with any personal virtue of his.
I can't believe some of you posters. This "personal virtue" stuff is beyond the pale. This is how the world works--you work hard to build a value and you exploit it when opportunities arise. Reality! Signs of success. He didn't hurt anyone except the tender feelings of some Beaver fans that are getting a dose of what their REAL value is in the marketplace. It's never been equal to their Pac-12 rivals and now they're seeing that when the landscape changed. Don't excoriate Smith or his character for moving forward. This used to be something we applauded in this country. OSU will live on with or without a great football team.
When character and “personal virtue means “Chase more money” no matter what the cost, yes.
How about fulfilling the contract you agreed to? Where is the “personal integrity” in bolting and what that does to the program, the recruits, and most of the players. What about the fans and donors who
Pay for all of this? I wish you the best, as he now lives in the same universe you do. A world
where “get yours before they do”, rules the day. It’s also where what goes out, comes around. That day will come.
His deal changed. He agreed to lead a mediocre P5 team in hope that he could get them to a level equal to the top of the conference. He did. Then all this BS happened. That’s not what he signed up for, so he started looking. I don’t like this either, but to say it’s all about money isn’t really fair. Do u really think he would have bolted to MSU for an extra $1-$2M per year if none of this happened? Would he have left if ESPN would have agreed to $35M per team instead of folding their hand? Doubtful. I mean, I don’t know him personally but he doesn’t seem like a mercenary to me.
This is our world: the “Me, Me, Me” generation. $4.5M per year is just not enough. Gotta get more. Don’t know why since 20 years of $5M in Corvallis makes you the wealthiest man in town. But its never enough for guys like Scott
Security?? BS!
And he wants to compete at the highest level. I don't blame him either. Hanging around trying to make something happen at Oregon State has pretty low odds of success. Smith should be thanked for bringing the Beavers back to life after Andersen did so he could to destroy them single-handedly.
If he wants to "compete at the highest level," why did he choose Michigan State?
Because the Ohio State and Michigan jobs aren't open yet? Also those jobs will attract coaches with better resumes than Smith's is at this time. MSU has won the B1G three times in the last 13 years and plays in one of the two "superconferences". Which currently available openings have a significantly higher level than that?
Safety for himself while he sold snake oil to everyone else
I’m sure the exorbitant cost of living increase in Lansing is worth chasing the money bag. So much for loyalty to the school that gave you the opportunity. Just once, I would love to see an Oregon State football coach finish what they start…..Riley, Erickson, and now Smith. It doesn’t get much worse than losing your conference, your financial well being, and now your coaching staff and players. It’s just baffling that all this could happen to OSU when they have done everything above board and from the ground up. They didn’t hire a 90 million dollar crap coach, commit violations, and take on debt they couldn’t repay. Yet all the blows keep coming to them when they did nothing wrong, and we can do nothing but sit and watch.
Oregon State could have invested in a brand, but did not, at least not like the Ducks did. The Northwest schools are off the beaten path. A school has to do something special to stand out, especially as the top level contracts to 40 or fewer schools. By recruiting metrics, OSU has been running about 55th in the country for years, back to Riley days. Not enough name recognition
Yes, very wise investment by the Ducks. I think we all know what makes that possible. You are right about it paying off for Oregon, but I don’t think OSU has ever been remotely close to the same financial position. Now it’s about to get far worse.
Dude, check out real estate prices. His house in Corvallis will go for $1 million or so, and he'll buy something comparable for half that much in Michigan.
I’m well aware of the price differences from having family there. It’s always been a running joke with us because the quality of life in Corvallis versus Lansing doesn’t turn into much of a debate. At the end of the day, Oregon Stare is getting screwed about as bad as they possibly can from forces out of their control. It never should have come to this. A year ago, Michigan State was not a better job. I still don’t think it will be a better job, but Oregon State is literally going into a death spiral and everyone will be ejecting. It just sucks and will be a long time before we see any recovery.
This literally now makes me want to never watch college football again. I was holding out hope that Johnathan would stay and that stability would help OSU navigate the next couple years. Sure Johnathan’s departure was a result of all the abject greed and stupidity that’s been fully reported but I hope the network execs, the B1G and Big12 commissioners and respective Presidents, the Pac12 Presidents and the hubris of the schools that started the dominoes falling (USC, UW, UO) are truly happy. OSU always did things right, punched above their weight, was loyal to the league, has a wonderful sports history and has always had a strong moral compass and culture. We all know it’s unlikely to recover so I truly hope all these a-holes are happy. All for a few extra bucks. I’m sickened by them all.
Wow... Well Stated, TP!! Makes me feel a little better, to be reminded how damn loyal and committed we beavers are! I'll hold out hope that we'll make it through this mess.