John, you've made a valiant effort, but I'm not convinced on SDSU (or any MWC team). It's an extra mouth to feed, and though the Aztecs are in SoCal, they do not deliver SoCal. Let's face it, UCLA doesn't even deliver SoCal (look at the empty Rose Bowl). To the extent that SoCal will care about college football, it will be Big10 country (like Texas/Florida and the SEC).
I'm not wild about expanding into Texas, but you can make a recruiting argument I suppose. Here, of course, poaching from the Big12 is preferable to any other option. If the Big12 is not an option, I'd throw UTSA onto the list with SMU and Rice. San Antonio is a huge city without a P5 team or an NFL team. For a 4th, Tulane at least gets you a great destination city.
I hope the conference is able to stay at 10. I assume they will only expand if ESPN demands it or if they think they can deal a death blow to the Big12.
The size of the market is only part of the equation. Rice may be in Houston, but does anyone in Houston care about Rice? A rabid fan base has to be part of the equation -- which factor in with Fresno State and Boise State. I'd argue that more people care about their games than care about Cal or Stanford games. There are others though, and you left them off your list. While Cheyenne might not be a large market, Cowboys games matter to all of Wyoming. The same is true about Montana, New Mexico, and the University of Texas at El Paso. I think you've confused market size with audience size.
Sep 28, 2022·edited Sep 28, 2022Liked by John Canzano
The Aztecs need a lot of improvement in their football coaching staff Brady Hoke was an emergency hire. Had a great year now has the worst offenses in the country..(again) Not sure the Pac 12-2 can get over its superiority complex. But if they can and with the extra stadium money the Aztecs can upgrade their Football staff .It would be a win for all. I could see Hawaii or Boise as football only and Gonzaga for BB. (affiliate members) a skinflints delight. Appreciate your work John.
Well while I'm not sold on expansion...I'll give my picks and reasons, SDSU is a no brainer, and I would pair that with Fresno State...Fresno has competed well with Pac 12 schools, has a much more competitive all around athletic program. While UNLV brings flash they don't bring any substance. I say no to that. If we are looking for more than two...I say Houston, (huge market, competitive in most sports) and Texas Tech...while Lubbock is not a huge market, (Houston offsets that) they are competitive in both football and basketball and golf. Houston traveled in the CONF-USA...SO doing the same in the Pac shouldn't be an issue, and more exposure in the Pac. SMU, & Rice are not competitive and are tiny...No sports footprint whatsoever. May as well bring in the University of Loyola Marymount, or Cal State Fullerton if you want that.
I'll say it again: Add SDSU yesterday. Hopefully UCLA comes to their senses. If they don't, I do think another school should be recruited, possibly 3 more. The allure of the Texas market is real, but if you told me we were getting SDSU, UNLV and Fresno, I'd take it. I know the latter two don't move the financial needle - yet. But UNLV plays in an NFL stadium and is a better academic school than many think. The football program will grow better with the cache of the Pac12, and we have seen in the past how strong their hoops can be. The sponsorship dollars available have no limit. If the Pac loses UCLA, Fresno St over time could be a suitable replacement. Especially with conference rivalries developing with Stanford, Cal and SDSU.
During the past decade, SMU has raised over $250M in athletic facilities upgrades that are now mostly completed.
During the past decade SMU Athletics has received 381 gifts of $100k or more AND 50 gifts of $1M or more (this past weekend they received $15M and $5M gifts towards FB stadium expansion.
We already have 2 NILs, one has paid out over $1M, the other pays all its FB & BB players $36k per year.
If we get a P5 invite, millions & millions will be poured into NILs….potentially in excess of $100M.
It’s called pent-up demand. SMU wants to be relevant again.
And don’t kid yourself, I’m from Dallas….TCU, Baylor and Tech want no part of SMU. They know we’ll kick their butts, just like in the old days.
As a USC undergraduate from 1975-79, I was shocked at the amount of students from the Central Valley of California… and even more shocked at the amount of $$$$ and affluence that they represented…Fresno and Bakersfield rivaled the So Cal Beach Communities as active members of the USC student population… and that hasn’t changed… it’s equally surprising how many of them return to the Central Valley upon graduation… there’s an identity that’s difficult to explain unless you’re from that area… Fresno State always puts out a strong product… and their fanbase travels really well… they’d be a much better addition to the PAC than they’re getting credit for…the number of TV viewers in a particular market is an important piece of the equation… but, it’s not the only piece…ucla sits in the middle of a suburban market in excess of 12 million people… and struggles to put 25,000 in the Rose Bowl for home games…it doesn’t matter how many people are in your market, if nobody cares about your product… Fresno State would carry the entire middle of California… where they have no competition for viewers… and they’d beat a majority of the PAC on a regular basis… the PAC would do well to humble themselves a bit, and quit looking down their noses at such viable candidates…Fresno would be a solid addition..
The current PAC-12 is barely a Power Five conference. Adding any of those schools other than San Diego State will immediately downgrade the conference to a Mountain West level. What a joke.
I don't think the argument that if the Pac 12 adds two MW schools, we might become the MW makes any sense to me. I think whoever is added from the MW is going to become a Pac 12 school. Picking schools that you think can rise to the occasion - that have room to grow as a school and program. I'm not worried about lowering the standards at all. Utah proves that MW schools can come and be a dog eventually.
Colorado State is in a bad place today record-wise. But they have a new stadium and Power Five facilities. They invested a lot of money in Jay Norvell to coach this year. They've made a big football commitment. Ft. Collins is a growing city in a booming Northern Colorado footprint and 60 miles from Denver. Research dollars-wise and academics-wise, Colorado State is comparable to multiple schools already in Power Five conferences and above San Diego State, Boise State and Fresno State.
All this talk doesn’t matter if the big 10 poaches 2-4 schools. Oregon, Washington and the Bay Area schools. Who knows they might even poach Utah. This season we have the better teams. Too bad we don’t have the better conference. Oh we can thank Larry Scott for that.
These are all basically brand diluters if you ask me.
Maybe add SDSU and just stay at 11 (or 12 if UCLA stays)
The rest do nothing for me
If pressed, I'd rather just stay at 10
John, you've made a valiant effort, but I'm not convinced on SDSU (or any MWC team). It's an extra mouth to feed, and though the Aztecs are in SoCal, they do not deliver SoCal. Let's face it, UCLA doesn't even deliver SoCal (look at the empty Rose Bowl). To the extent that SoCal will care about college football, it will be Big10 country (like Texas/Florida and the SEC).
I'm not wild about expanding into Texas, but you can make a recruiting argument I suppose. Here, of course, poaching from the Big12 is preferable to any other option. If the Big12 is not an option, I'd throw UTSA onto the list with SMU and Rice. San Antonio is a huge city without a P5 team or an NFL team. For a 4th, Tulane at least gets you a great destination city.
I hope the conference is able to stay at 10. I assume they will only expand if ESPN demands it or if they think they can deal a death blow to the Big12.
The size of the market is only part of the equation. Rice may be in Houston, but does anyone in Houston care about Rice? A rabid fan base has to be part of the equation -- which factor in with Fresno State and Boise State. I'd argue that more people care about their games than care about Cal or Stanford games. There are others though, and you left them off your list. While Cheyenne might not be a large market, Cowboys games matter to all of Wyoming. The same is true about Montana, New Mexico, and the University of Texas at El Paso. I think you've confused market size with audience size.
The Aztecs need a lot of improvement in their football coaching staff Brady Hoke was an emergency hire. Had a great year now has the worst offenses in the country..(again) Not sure the Pac 12-2 can get over its superiority complex. But if they can and with the extra stadium money the Aztecs can upgrade their Football staff .It would be a win for all. I could see Hawaii or Boise as football only and Gonzaga for BB. (affiliate members) a skinflints delight. Appreciate your work John.
Why not seek out smaller schools in large metro areas nation wide...
I can think of several in Florida/SE states.
"The Waiting is the hardest part," -Tom Petty. Go Aztecs!
Well while I'm not sold on expansion...I'll give my picks and reasons, SDSU is a no brainer, and I would pair that with Fresno State...Fresno has competed well with Pac 12 schools, has a much more competitive all around athletic program. While UNLV brings flash they don't bring any substance. I say no to that. If we are looking for more than two...I say Houston, (huge market, competitive in most sports) and Texas Tech...while Lubbock is not a huge market, (Houston offsets that) they are competitive in both football and basketball and golf. Houston traveled in the CONF-USA...SO doing the same in the Pac shouldn't be an issue, and more exposure in the Pac. SMU, & Rice are not competitive and are tiny...No sports footprint whatsoever. May as well bring in the University of Loyola Marymount, or Cal State Fullerton if you want that.
I'll say it again: Add SDSU yesterday. Hopefully UCLA comes to their senses. If they don't, I do think another school should be recruited, possibly 3 more. The allure of the Texas market is real, but if you told me we were getting SDSU, UNLV and Fresno, I'd take it. I know the latter two don't move the financial needle - yet. But UNLV plays in an NFL stadium and is a better academic school than many think. The football program will grow better with the cache of the Pac12, and we have seen in the past how strong their hoops can be. The sponsorship dollars available have no limit. If the Pac loses UCLA, Fresno St over time could be a suitable replacement. Especially with conference rivalries developing with Stanford, Cal and SDSU.
During the past decade, SMU has raised over $250M in athletic facilities upgrades that are now mostly completed.
During the past decade SMU Athletics has received 381 gifts of $100k or more AND 50 gifts of $1M or more (this past weekend they received $15M and $5M gifts towards FB stadium expansion.
We already have 2 NILs, one has paid out over $1M, the other pays all its FB & BB players $36k per year.
If we get a P5 invite, millions & millions will be poured into NILs….potentially in excess of $100M.
It’s called pent-up demand. SMU wants to be relevant again.
And don’t kid yourself, I’m from Dallas….TCU, Baylor and Tech want no part of SMU. They know we’ll kick their butts, just like in the old days.
If UCLA stays (possible) + SDSU is enough.
Boise really wants in, they will take a smaller cut. BSU + SDSU, OK
Want Texas? SMU and go after Houston. UH has invested nicely in recent years. Then you get Houston and Dallas.
Rice, too small. It would be like adding UP or Gonzaga.
Texas Tech is an option, tradition and alums all over the place. Tough travel (spent New Year's Eve there once on a basketball trip).
As a USC undergraduate from 1975-79, I was shocked at the amount of students from the Central Valley of California… and even more shocked at the amount of $$$$ and affluence that they represented…Fresno and Bakersfield rivaled the So Cal Beach Communities as active members of the USC student population… and that hasn’t changed… it’s equally surprising how many of them return to the Central Valley upon graduation… there’s an identity that’s difficult to explain unless you’re from that area… Fresno State always puts out a strong product… and their fanbase travels really well… they’d be a much better addition to the PAC than they’re getting credit for…the number of TV viewers in a particular market is an important piece of the equation… but, it’s not the only piece…ucla sits in the middle of a suburban market in excess of 12 million people… and struggles to put 25,000 in the Rose Bowl for home games…it doesn’t matter how many people are in your market, if nobody cares about your product… Fresno State would carry the entire middle of California… where they have no competition for viewers… and they’d beat a majority of the PAC on a regular basis… the PAC would do well to humble themselves a bit, and quit looking down their noses at such viable candidates…Fresno would be a solid addition..
I don’t like any of them. PAC 10!
The current PAC-12 is barely a Power Five conference. Adding any of those schools other than San Diego State will immediately downgrade the conference to a Mountain West level. What a joke.
I don't think the argument that if the Pac 12 adds two MW schools, we might become the MW makes any sense to me. I think whoever is added from the MW is going to become a Pac 12 school. Picking schools that you think can rise to the occasion - that have room to grow as a school and program. I'm not worried about lowering the standards at all. Utah proves that MW schools can come and be a dog eventually.
Colorado State is in a bad place today record-wise. But they have a new stadium and Power Five facilities. They invested a lot of money in Jay Norvell to coach this year. They've made a big football commitment. Ft. Collins is a growing city in a booming Northern Colorado footprint and 60 miles from Denver. Research dollars-wise and academics-wise, Colorado State is comparable to multiple schools already in Power Five conferences and above San Diego State, Boise State and Fresno State.
All this talk doesn’t matter if the big 10 poaches 2-4 schools. Oregon, Washington and the Bay Area schools. Who knows they might even poach Utah. This season we have the better teams. Too bad we don’t have the better conference. Oh we can thank Larry Scott for that.