John, you've made a valiant effort, but I'm not convinced on SDSU (or any MWC team). It's an extra mouth to feed, and though the Aztecs are in SoCal, they do not deliver SoCal. Let's face it, UCLA doesn't even deliver SoCal (look at the empty Rose Bowl). To the extent that SoCal will care about college football, it will be Big10 country …
John, you've made a valiant effort, but I'm not convinced on SDSU (or any MWC team). It's an extra mouth to feed, and though the Aztecs are in SoCal, they do not deliver SoCal. Let's face it, UCLA doesn't even deliver SoCal (look at the empty Rose Bowl). To the extent that SoCal will care about college football, it will be Big10 country (like Texas/Florida and the SEC).
I'm not wild about expanding into Texas, but you can make a recruiting argument I suppose. Here, of course, poaching from the Big12 is preferable to any other option. If the Big12 is not an option, I'd throw UTSA onto the list with SMU and Rice. San Antonio is a huge city without a P5 team or an NFL team. For a 4th, Tulane at least gets you a great destination city.
I hope the conference is able to stay at 10. I assume they will only expand if ESPN demands it or if they think they can deal a death blow to the Big12.
I'm not wild about expanding into Texas, but could see why the consultants would explore it. Also, you ONLY add a team if the media rights valuations pencil out. SDSU does.
If the Pac-12 is dead without SoCal, then the Pac-12 is dead. SDSU isn't going to save the Pac-12 from anything.
Expansion could happen if ESPN demands it to ensure inventory. Otherwise, I'm sure the people involved realize SDSU doesn't move the needle on any media negotiations.
SDSU keeps it in play and then 1-3 more keeps the P12 alive. If you don’t think having a footprint in So. Cal is crucial for recruiting in ALL sports, y’all are naive.
Again, if that’s the case, it’s toast already. SDSU will not save the Pac. Specifically, SDSU does nothing meaningful to add to our SoCal footprint. The Big10 just stole SoCal, and SDSU doesn’t bring it back any more than adding UCSD would.
Ignorant/troll statement. UCSD has no football and never will. And Canzano agrees with me. You know little about So. Cal, business or college athletics, it seems.
It's a given the conference loses big without UCLA and USC. There is no way to get that back. Keeping UCLA would be huge and probably the best thing for all involved.
What school are you guys pulling for where you nix every idea to save the Pac 12?
I want the Pac to survice too. What are we most worried about with respect to a collapse of the Pac-10?
1. The Big10 grabs OU and UW (and others?). In this case, the Pac10 just dies.
2. The money difference between the Pac and the Big10/SEC proves too large, and the gap slowly widens until the Pac is irrelevant.
3. (Related to #2). The gap in quality on the field widens between the Pac and the big two conferences (due to money, recruiting, etc).
SDSU clearly does nothing to help with #1. I don't believe it does much to help with #2 or #3 either. I believe SDSU decreases the revenue to each school. I don't believe the presence of SDSU has a meaningful effect on recruiting in the conference.
If someone says something convincing about SDSU alleviating any of our concerns, I'll buy it. But no one has made that case convincingly yet (which is probably why SDSU has never been invited into a P5).
Is it your position that SDSU and the San Diego Market are NOT value add, i.e., they won't increase the value of PAC12- 2 media rights? Because if SDSU is a value add, then it's a no brainer. Yes, the money gap may still widen, but it's going to widen faster without SDSU.
Also, having a footprint in SoCal is a tremendous help in recruiting that area. Again, the talent gap may still widen but it's going to be worse without SDSU.
Agree 100% that if SDSU increases revenue for all schools, it has to be done. I've never seen any analysis to suggest that SDSU would increase revenue. I suspect that move would decrease revenue for each school by adding 1 mouth to feed.
I am also very skeptical that adding SDSU would be a "tremendous" help in recruiting. I've never seen any evidence to that effect.
I'm happy to let this go now. ESPN will make the call for us one way or the other. I'll be surprised if ESPN requests that we add SDSU, but we'll see.
John, you've made a valiant effort, but I'm not convinced on SDSU (or any MWC team). It's an extra mouth to feed, and though the Aztecs are in SoCal, they do not deliver SoCal. Let's face it, UCLA doesn't even deliver SoCal (look at the empty Rose Bowl). To the extent that SoCal will care about college football, it will be Big10 country (like Texas/Florida and the SEC).
I'm not wild about expanding into Texas, but you can make a recruiting argument I suppose. Here, of course, poaching from the Big12 is preferable to any other option. If the Big12 is not an option, I'd throw UTSA onto the list with SMU and Rice. San Antonio is a huge city without a P5 team or an NFL team. For a 4th, Tulane at least gets you a great destination city.
I hope the conference is able to stay at 10. I assume they will only expand if ESPN demands it or if they think they can deal a death blow to the Big12.
I'm not wild about expanding into Texas, but could see why the consultants would explore it. Also, you ONLY add a team if the media rights valuations pencil out. SDSU does.
The Pac 12 will die without a team in So. Cal. Period.
If the Pac-12 is dead without SoCal, then the Pac-12 is dead. SDSU isn't going to save the Pac-12 from anything.
Expansion could happen if ESPN demands it to ensure inventory. Otherwise, I'm sure the people involved realize SDSU doesn't move the needle on any media negotiations.
SDSU keeps it in play and then 1-3 more keeps the P12 alive. If you don’t think having a footprint in So. Cal is crucial for recruiting in ALL sports, y’all are naive.
If you solution is to stay at 10? P12 is toast.
Again, if that’s the case, it’s toast already. SDSU will not save the Pac. Specifically, SDSU does nothing meaningful to add to our SoCal footprint. The Big10 just stole SoCal, and SDSU doesn’t bring it back any more than adding UCSD would.
Ignorant/troll statement. UCSD has no football and never will. And Canzano agrees with me. You know little about So. Cal, business or college athletics, it seems.
His point is that we were already talking about the Pac-12 being behind and losing the war .... **with** UCLA and USC
Swapping both them for SDSU, further cements and relegates to the Pac-11 to lower tier status.
It's two cuts of filet mignon gettin swapped for a hungry man dinner
It's a given the conference loses big without UCLA and USC. There is no way to get that back. Keeping UCLA would be huge and probably the best thing for all involved.
What school are you guys pulling for where you nix every idea to save the Pac 12?
I want the Pac to survice too. What are we most worried about with respect to a collapse of the Pac-10?
1. The Big10 grabs OU and UW (and others?). In this case, the Pac10 just dies.
2. The money difference between the Pac and the Big10/SEC proves too large, and the gap slowly widens until the Pac is irrelevant.
3. (Related to #2). The gap in quality on the field widens between the Pac and the big two conferences (due to money, recruiting, etc).
SDSU clearly does nothing to help with #1. I don't believe it does much to help with #2 or #3 either. I believe SDSU decreases the revenue to each school. I don't believe the presence of SDSU has a meaningful effect on recruiting in the conference.
If someone says something convincing about SDSU alleviating any of our concerns, I'll buy it. But no one has made that case convincingly yet (which is probably why SDSU has never been invited into a P5).
Is it your position that SDSU and the San Diego Market are NOT value add, i.e., they won't increase the value of PAC12- 2 media rights? Because if SDSU is a value add, then it's a no brainer. Yes, the money gap may still widen, but it's going to widen faster without SDSU.
Also, having a footprint in SoCal is a tremendous help in recruiting that area. Again, the talent gap may still widen but it's going to be worse without SDSU.
Agree 100% that if SDSU increases revenue for all schools, it has to be done. I've never seen any analysis to suggest that SDSU would increase revenue. I suspect that move would decrease revenue for each school by adding 1 mouth to feed.
I am also very skeptical that adding SDSU would be a "tremendous" help in recruiting. I've never seen any evidence to that effect.
I'm happy to let this go now. ESPN will make the call for us one way or the other. I'll be surprised if ESPN requests that we add SDSU, but we'll see.
I'm not trying to save the Pac 12 honestly
If the BIG comes calling, I'd like to see UW/OR/CA/ST join UCLA/USC to create a West Coast pod of the BIG
Four corners to Big 12 and OSU/WSU to MWC
Done
It would "keep it alive", yes
The question is really...."is that a long term solution"?
For passengers with lifeboat options, it really isn't that appealing to just keep the Titanic floating a bit longer.
(I fully admit that the "lifeboat options" don't presently exist - at least not that we know about publicly)
Agreed - UCLA should stay ;-)
My ideal: UCLA rethinks it and SDSU replaces usc. That’s hold, baby!
Sign me up for that right now!!