I'd be willing to bet that there are more households in the PAC-12 footprint with access to Amazon Prime than there are to the PAC-12 Networks. Not so sure about Apple. And it won't surprise me that soon someone will develop an APP or piece of hardware that will make swapping between streaming/cable or streaming/streaming as simple as it is to switch channels now on your tv. The market for that capability will be huge.
Zero chance that streaming game swaps will be anywhere near as simple & fast as cable or satellite anytime in the next 10 years (if not longer). It's a bandwidth problem. The swapped-to game would have to be in full stream prior to the switch and the TV would have to be able to buffer that extra bandwidth.
I don't think I'd go that far. I think switching won't be a big deal. Amazon Prime is part of the way there subscription wise by enabling you to add/watch subscriptions from other providers like HBO, Stars, AMC, etc.
You bring up a good point about buffering and switching time. Not a big deal for me though.
Is that honestly that big of a problem though? I know people like to flip between games BUT one of the benefits of streaming is that its on ALL devices. You can have a game on your TV, phone etc. I have google TV and often have one running on my tablet and carry it around the house or sit next to me while watching another game on tv. Also changing games with google tv is really easy and quick, there is almost no buffering maybe 1 second. Switching apps is a is a bit more annoying but still not bad either.
I think the current distribution of the Pac-12 Networks has lowered our tolerance a ton. I have had a lot of trouble finding it when I travel. Finally settled on Sling. I'd like to avoid that in the future.
Ditto. Sling didn’t even capture all the games, even with the sports bundles. If I recall correctly, Fox Sports wasn’t on there. Just FS1 or something from their network.
During march madness google tv had up to 4 games at a time (depending on how many were playing at the time) on at the same time. You could watch all 4 at once on the same screen and choose which you listened to instantly with the remote. it was great and worked flawlessly for me.
I'm with you JC. Personally, I'm OK with a little delay when switching between games. I've used the streaming version of Sunday Ticket for years and I've learned to live with it
This absolutely YES. The biggest thing I hear is that people cant find or get the games because they are on pac12 an even in the NW no one has access unless they either buy sling or have comcast (F that). I would LOVE to just be able to know that the game is on at x time on amazon and just be done with it. yes please! Apple is just trading one walled garden for another walled garden we do NOT need to get into.
Yeah but then we go back to reach and distribution, reach and eyes on games. How many people have apple plus? its not many more than have access to p12 network now. I have no doubt that its better or a good product, but its more about not forcing people to purchase another product just to get access to p12 content. Most people already have amazon.
I think Amazon/Apple are in an entirely different league from P12 networks. Branding, access, ease of use, etc are night and day different. Distribution will look entirely different and exposure far better. Not even a real comparison IMO
It won’t matter who the Oregon president or interim is. If the dollars are Big 12 comparable the the duration is five or so years all of the university presidents will sign off on whatever deal is presented to them. They don’t have a choice at this point.
As to your PAC 12 networkquestion, is there anyone who doesn’t want to see it on any other established platform? ESPN+, Apple, Amazon, even Paramount+ would be an improvement!
The most important thing for me would be the ability to access the games outside of real time. Being in the eastern time zone makes many of the games too late to watch live. Will the streaming services allow viewing other than live?
You bring up a good point since whatever deal the PAC 12 is given will include as many, if not more, loathed 7:30 PM PT kickoffs. The big streaming services include either a record feature, the ability to start from the beginning of the game or the option to replay the game at a later time. Mandatory accessibility should have been a part of the RFP given to the media companies.
yeah, that ION rumor that got floated, even that would work. I looked into it because I was curious how that would impact access and apparently 65% of cable/antenna and 80% of all tv viewers have ION (im guessing thats because of streaming tv). that would be a MASSIVE boost.
Again John, excellent reporting. Thanks. In terms of the comments, other than "personal" shout outs to John for his outstanding work, I shall be absent from the comments page. The past couple of weeks I have read the kinds of vitriol, most of it in the form of mindless verbal attacks on the member of the tribe who happened to express a thought that unsettled the attacker. I thought Twitter was the world for this. None of these were aimed at me, but for me amounted to something I have chosen to avoid. Two words for those who are compelled to aggressively play in this arena: compassion, and breathe. Charlie
I'll do a better job policing this forum. You add something. So do a lot of others. But this isn't going to turn into a cesspool. If you can point me to the column... I'd be happy to examine.
John, thanks. I in no way would want to be considered as thinking that it is your job to police others' responses, they are what they are, but just to point out that one turd can ruin the soup. Knowing human behavior I wasn't attempting to change any behavior, just announcing my desire to avoid this, like a I do cable news. Your column and this chat box are both great experiences, no intention of reflect negatively on you in any way, and truth be known I am probably way out over my skis. In my dotage I still tend to over-react. Play on.
This Dawg fan really enjoys reading your work John - yes, Wilner too :-) Anyway, thanks for keeping us in the loop on things. These "national" media guys, along with the countless mid-west and east-coast bloggers, all who seem to have more inside info of the PAC than ANYONE on the planet, have driven me bonkers with their totally useless stories every day! The sanity is much appreciated!
I've heard the red herring arguments about visibility that began being conjectured last fall when Pac started talking significant streaming. And I know there are old heads who won't be able to find the games without their TV Guide, the clicker, and wrapping their rabbit ears with aluminum foil.
I'm here for ALL-IN streaming. I cut cable years ago. The network streamers like Sling are okay, and helps that can only pay for a few months per year. But clunky and very expensive paying for 99.99% content I couldn't care less about. Would love to see all Pac games on either Amazon or Apple. Much more convenient, and I already have subscriptions. I would even pay an extra $20-30/mo for a Pac 12 subscription through those providers. The conference would get a larger cut that way too.
Just for the record, I'd like to put in a comment for non-streaming viewers. I see the inevitable tide of streaming format, but I will miss my current options of Pac12 Network, ESPN (s), Fox, and Commercial Networks for all of my sports coverage. Changing from one source to another is instantaneous, and I can record all of them simultaneously. All of these options are provided on DISH TV, and if I had a vote, I would retain these options.
John, I’ve previously ID’d myself here as having 15+ years higher Ed administrative experience (including working directly with multiple interim and permanent presidents/chancellors). These thoughts are derived from those experiences.
Had UO not yet named a permanent leader, I might buy their statement to you that the short-term interim has genuine authority to vote her conscience on the conference media deal and any collateral issues.
But the new guy has been named. He takes over in less than 90 days. It is simply inconceivable to me that a placeholder — even one with extensive campus experience and a background in athletics — would cast such a consequential vote on her own, without consulting him and, in effect, voting as his proxy.
Thank you for the in depth update. I truly enjoyed the NCAA men’s tournament this year, very entertaining. The championship game not so much but hats off to UConn! The women’s tournament was fun to watch as well, I just wish Iowa could have won it. What a fun team to watch and a class program. Not so much LSU.
Completely agree the better team won. However, Clark has handled herself with class and dignity in her comments and behavior since her initial "can't see me" gesture. Reese and Mulkey have not. Not that class and dignity are required in sports but I am more attracted to athletes that display a modicum of those qualities.
I think you may have misread what Clark said. She was saying trash talk is a part of basketball and she didn't fault Reese for her 'ring' gesture. Many fans on the other hand, me included, found her following Caitlin around the court for so long pointing and gesturing was bush league. I also don't like Clark's hand to the ear gesture. Fans cheer when fans cheer - let your performance speak for itself. Still young - both excellent ball players.
Ha, I watched them both and I still talk rash on court in pickup games. My favorite is when a twenty-something gives me the 'Old man' line (simple fact of course since I turn 70 this year) . When I beat him on a step back three, I get to say, "Hey junior, when are you going to grow up and keep up with old men?" the young guys love it and I love it. What Reese did was different. After the win, she stalked Clark around the court holding up the ring finger and yelling. 'Where's your ring? You don't see me!' multiple times even as Clark walked away. If that were Jordan chasing Bird there would have been fisticuffs and you know it.
TV ratings for the Final Four and National Championship should disabuse anyone -- even Wilner -- of the notion that SDSU would be a positive addition to the Pac 12.
Well, then you're back to the Pac-12 Network problem: You assume every provider in a given area will carry your games at a high rights fee just because there's a Pac-12 school in the area. Didn't happen in the cable/satellite world, and even less likely to happen in the streaming world
I’m perhaps in a minority but I like Pac12 Network because there is a lot of content most of the year, Dish offers it and the cost is minimal, and I don’t pay for streaming services ither than Netflix.
You can add "Paul" to that list, too. That dude sounds like Paul Finebaum who every day predicts the demise of the Pac-12. I actually don't mind...I enjoy the give and take, and making him deal with logic and data.
Thanks, John...I'll listen to the podcast later today, they've very good.
Don't think for a minute Pac-12 fans don't enjoy your updates on the media rights progress. Although it has been an excruciatingly slow process from a fan's perspective, your details and sourced information, combined with experience and logic, are sincerely appreciated. I hope the presidents/chancellors don't fiddle too long - the Big 12 could make things very attractive for SMU and San Diego State. That would be a shame for the Pac-12, maybe fatal. It would just take one current school - Oregon, Washington being the leading candidates - to start getting nervous and some real tension could develop and threaten an agreement and the future of the conference.
One more item - Apple and Amazon are the future. I'd love to see them involved in the new deal. As for Sling...they'll be gone and forgotten in 5 years in my opinion.
People don't like "cumbersome". That's precisely why Apple and Amazon are so successful. If Sling (Dish) doesn't change they will be gone...just like Dish. By the way - the trend line for DirecTV isn't great, either.
I live in Europe (Italy). So, I know I don't matter for tv dollars. But, I hope they figure out how to get college football licensed internationally. Right now it is impossible for me to watch Duck games legally. Maybe streaming services would change that? Again, low expectations here because I am one of probably just a few sets of eyeballs so we don't count. But is anybody looking at international audiences in all of this?
NCAA Bball. You can subscribe to Sky Sports for NFL and NBA coverage, but college sports are not available. Tough stuff for a Duck fan who works for Gonzaga (we have a campus in Italy).
I'd be willing to bet that there are more households in the PAC-12 footprint with access to Amazon Prime than there are to the PAC-12 Networks. Not so sure about Apple. And it won't surprise me that soon someone will develop an APP or piece of hardware that will make swapping between streaming/cable or streaming/streaming as simple as it is to switch channels now on your tv. The market for that capability will be huge.
ESPN has talked some about this.
Zero chance that streaming game swaps will be anywhere near as simple & fast as cable or satellite anytime in the next 10 years (if not longer). It's a bandwidth problem. The swapped-to game would have to be in full stream prior to the switch and the TV would have to be able to buffer that extra bandwidth.
I don't think I'd go that far. I think switching won't be a big deal. Amazon Prime is part of the way there subscription wise by enabling you to add/watch subscriptions from other providers like HBO, Stars, AMC, etc.
You bring up a good point about buffering and switching time. Not a big deal for me though.
Is that honestly that big of a problem though? I know people like to flip between games BUT one of the benefits of streaming is that its on ALL devices. You can have a game on your TV, phone etc. I have google TV and often have one running on my tablet and carry it around the house or sit next to me while watching another game on tv. Also changing games with google tv is really easy and quick, there is almost no buffering maybe 1 second. Switching apps is a is a bit more annoying but still not bad either.
I think the current distribution of the Pac-12 Networks has lowered our tolerance a ton. I have had a lot of trouble finding it when I travel. Finally settled on Sling. I'd like to avoid that in the future.
Ditto. Sling didn’t even capture all the games, even with the sports bundles. If I recall correctly, Fox Sports wasn’t on there. Just FS1 or something from their network.
I hear what you're saying... take a look at what Apple is doing with the MLS games. They're doing some cool things.
During march madness google tv had up to 4 games at a time (depending on how many were playing at the time) on at the same time. You could watch all 4 at once on the same screen and choose which you listened to instantly with the remote. it was great and worked flawlessly for me.
YouTube TV had the same multi-games on one screen option and it was fantastic.
I'm with you JC. Personally, I'm OK with a little delay when switching between games. I've used the streaming version of Sunday Ticket for years and I've learned to live with it
This absolutely YES. The biggest thing I hear is that people cant find or get the games because they are on pac12 an even in the NW no one has access unless they either buy sling or have comcast (F that). I would LOVE to just be able to know that the game is on at x time on amazon and just be done with it. yes please! Apple is just trading one walled garden for another walled garden we do NOT need to get into.
MLS on AppleTV has been a huge hit with the quality. If that is part of the Pac-12 Networks plan... I think fans will be pleased.
Yeah but then we go back to reach and distribution, reach and eyes on games. How many people have apple plus? its not many more than have access to p12 network now. I have no doubt that its better or a good product, but its more about not forcing people to purchase another product just to get access to p12 content. Most people already have amazon.
I think Amazon/Apple are in an entirely different league from P12 networks. Branding, access, ease of use, etc are night and day different. Distribution will look entirely different and exposure far better. Not even a real comparison IMO
It's still paying extra $$ for a couple games a week if that
https://techcrunch.com/2023/03/29/apple-spotted-developing-a-multiview-feature-for-watching-sports-on-apple-tv/
It won’t matter who the Oregon president or interim is. If the dollars are Big 12 comparable the the duration is five or so years all of the university presidents will sign off on whatever deal is presented to them. They don’t have a choice at this point.
As to your PAC 12 networkquestion, is there anyone who doesn’t want to see it on any other established platform? ESPN+, Apple, Amazon, even Paramount+ would be an improvement!
Agree with all of this. Thanks.
The most important thing for me would be the ability to access the games outside of real time. Being in the eastern time zone makes many of the games too late to watch live. Will the streaming services allow viewing other than live?
You bring up a good point since whatever deal the PAC 12 is given will include as many, if not more, loathed 7:30 PM PT kickoffs. The big streaming services include either a record feature, the ability to start from the beginning of the game or the option to replay the game at a later time. Mandatory accessibility should have been a part of the RFP given to the media companies.
yeah, that ION rumor that got floated, even that would work. I looked into it because I was curious how that would impact access and apparently 65% of cable/antenna and 80% of all tv viewers have ION (im guessing thats because of streaming tv). that would be a MASSIVE boost.
Rumor... have not confirmed that.
oh yeah, its was very much a rumor, but everyone scoffed at ION... who has ION hahahah.... apparently EVERYONE.
Ion is a free over the air channel for a $15 antenna investment
Again John, excellent reporting. Thanks. In terms of the comments, other than "personal" shout outs to John for his outstanding work, I shall be absent from the comments page. The past couple of weeks I have read the kinds of vitriol, most of it in the form of mindless verbal attacks on the member of the tribe who happened to express a thought that unsettled the attacker. I thought Twitter was the world for this. None of these were aimed at me, but for me amounted to something I have chosen to avoid. Two words for those who are compelled to aggressively play in this arena: compassion, and breathe. Charlie
I'll do a better job policing this forum. You add something. So do a lot of others. But this isn't going to turn into a cesspool. If you can point me to the column... I'd be happy to examine.
John, thanks. I in no way would want to be considered as thinking that it is your job to police others' responses, they are what they are, but just to point out that one turd can ruin the soup. Knowing human behavior I wasn't attempting to change any behavior, just announcing my desire to avoid this, like a I do cable news. Your column and this chat box are both great experiences, no intention of reflect negatively on you in any way, and truth be known I am probably way out over my skis. In my dotage I still tend to over-react. Play on.
Charlie
I'm happy to do it. I want this comment section to stay smart.
This Dawg fan really enjoys reading your work John - yes, Wilner too :-) Anyway, thanks for keeping us in the loop on things. These "national" media guys, along with the countless mid-west and east-coast bloggers, all who seem to have more inside info of the PAC than ANYONE on the planet, have driven me bonkers with their totally useless stories every day! The sanity is much appreciated!
A lot of pretenders. Thank you for reading and taking the time to comment.
If Commissioner K's media negotiations last any longer he will replace Portland's Walter Cole (Darcelle) as the Queen of Drag.
I've heard the red herring arguments about visibility that began being conjectured last fall when Pac started talking significant streaming. And I know there are old heads who won't be able to find the games without their TV Guide, the clicker, and wrapping their rabbit ears with aluminum foil.
I'm here for ALL-IN streaming. I cut cable years ago. The network streamers like Sling are okay, and helps that can only pay for a few months per year. But clunky and very expensive paying for 99.99% content I couldn't care less about. Would love to see all Pac games on either Amazon or Apple. Much more convenient, and I already have subscriptions. I would even pay an extra $20-30/mo for a Pac 12 subscription through those providers. The conference would get a larger cut that way too.
Just for the record, I'd like to put in a comment for non-streaming viewers. I see the inevitable tide of streaming format, but I will miss my current options of Pac12 Network, ESPN (s), Fox, and Commercial Networks for all of my sports coverage. Changing from one source to another is instantaneous, and I can record all of them simultaneously. All of these options are provided on DISH TV, and if I had a vote, I would retain these options.
Another terrific and balanced look at Pac-10 media negotiations as among others, Dennis Dodd as Exhibit A, hammers away at the conference.
I deeply appreciate the balanced reporting you and Jon Wilner have provided during the new media negotiations.
Would it not be ironic if streaming leads to big and not B1G bucks?
John, I’ve previously ID’d myself here as having 15+ years higher Ed administrative experience (including working directly with multiple interim and permanent presidents/chancellors). These thoughts are derived from those experiences.
Had UO not yet named a permanent leader, I might buy their statement to you that the short-term interim has genuine authority to vote her conscience on the conference media deal and any collateral issues.
But the new guy has been named. He takes over in less than 90 days. It is simply inconceivable to me that a placeholder — even one with extensive campus experience and a background in athletics — would cast such a consequential vote on her own, without consulting him and, in effect, voting as his proxy.
I’ve seen it happen elsewhere.
Thank you for the in depth update. I truly enjoyed the NCAA men’s tournament this year, very entertaining. The championship game not so much but hats off to UConn! The women’s tournament was fun to watch as well, I just wish Iowa could have won it. What a fun team to watch and a class program. Not so much LSU.
Really thought both tournaments delivered in different ways.
You missed the entire point. LSU, just copied what Iowa had already done, the better team won
Completely agree the better team won. However, Clark has handled herself with class and dignity in her comments and behavior since her initial "can't see me" gesture. Reese and Mulkey have not. Not that class and dignity are required in sports but I am more attracted to athletes that display a modicum of those qualities.
Clark, herself disagrees with you
I saw Clark's gracious comments about Reese and LSU. I liked what she said. Very classy. Much different than Reese.
Just my opinion.
https://www.msn.com/en-us/sports/other/lsu-s-angel-reese-says-her-team-won-t-go-to-the-white-house-but-school-s-athletic-department-says-it-will-accept-invite/ar-AA19vUi8
Leave it to Reese and the White House to create controversy.
I have to say, it appeals to audiences and there will be more eyeballs on Women's BB next year than the last 5 years combined.
I think you may have misread what Clark said. She was saying trash talk is a part of basketball and she didn't fault Reese for her 'ring' gesture. Many fans on the other hand, me included, found her following Caitlin around the court for so long pointing and gesturing was bush league. I also don't like Clark's hand to the ear gesture. Fans cheer when fans cheer - let your performance speak for itself. Still young - both excellent ball players.
it's what players do, didn't you ever watch Jordan? or anyone, Bird, all the great ones
Ha, I watched them both and I still talk rash on court in pickup games. My favorite is when a twenty-something gives me the 'Old man' line (simple fact of course since I turn 70 this year) . When I beat him on a step back three, I get to say, "Hey junior, when are you going to grow up and keep up with old men?" the young guys love it and I love it. What Reese did was different. After the win, she stalked Clark around the court holding up the ring finger and yelling. 'Where's your ring? You don't see me!' multiple times even as Clark walked away. If that were Jordan chasing Bird there would have been fisticuffs and you know it.
The better team won on the day. Great game.
Thank you
Drex…H’dog here. If you missed John’s reply, he’s reachable for mailbag questions at <John@JohnCanzano.com>.
Also, if you do social media, he’s posts mailbag stuff on Facebook and Twitter on Fridays.
TV ratings for the Final Four and National Championship should disabuse anyone -- even Wilner -- of the notion that SDSU would be a positive addition to the Pac 12.
Ratings... vs. TV households. Eye on ball!!
Well, then you're back to the Pac-12 Network problem: You assume every provider in a given area will carry your games at a high rights fee just because there's a Pac-12 school in the area. Didn't happen in the cable/satellite world, and even less likely to happen in the streaming world
The 9:20 p.m. EDT starting time probably had more to do with the ratings than anything. That's just too late for almost 200 million Americans.
Same starting time every year
I’m perhaps in a minority but I like Pac12 Network because there is a lot of content most of the year, Dish offers it and the cost is minimal, and I don’t pay for streaming services ither than Netflix.
John,
Who is Blue and Gold Dude?
He keeps popping up in my Google feed with stories about the impending demise of the Pac 12/10/14, etc.
I won't waste my time on the clickbait.
thanks,
dave peterson
Avoid like the plague
No idea who that is. Never heard of it. Mute is a good option.
It's a V-blogger from West Virginia...He's a big 12 clickbait troll, who loves to stir the pot! He just throws mud at the wall and hopes it sticks.
You can add "Paul" to that list, too. That dude sounds like Paul Finebaum who every day predicts the demise of the Pac-12. I actually don't mind...I enjoy the give and take, and making him deal with logic and data.
He was a Youtube personality. He unexpectedly passed away this week.
Thanks, John...I'll listen to the podcast later today, they've very good.
Don't think for a minute Pac-12 fans don't enjoy your updates on the media rights progress. Although it has been an excruciatingly slow process from a fan's perspective, your details and sourced information, combined with experience and logic, are sincerely appreciated. I hope the presidents/chancellors don't fiddle too long - the Big 12 could make things very attractive for SMU and San Diego State. That would be a shame for the Pac-12, maybe fatal. It would just take one current school - Oregon, Washington being the leading candidates - to start getting nervous and some real tension could develop and threaten an agreement and the future of the conference.
One more item - Apple and Amazon are the future. I'd love to see them involved in the new deal. As for Sling...they'll be gone and forgotten in 5 years in my opinion.
Appreciate you. Thanks for being here for it.
they are part od Dish, which eventually will be taking DirecTV, so, No, they aren't going away
People don't like "cumbersome". That's precisely why Apple and Amazon are so successful. If Sling (Dish) doesn't change they will be gone...just like Dish. By the way - the trend line for DirecTV isn't great, either.
I live in Europe (Italy). So, I know I don't matter for tv dollars. But, I hope they figure out how to get college football licensed internationally. Right now it is impossible for me to watch Duck games legally. Maybe streaming services would change that? Again, low expectations here because I am one of probably just a few sets of eyeballs so we don't count. But is anybody looking at international audiences in all of this?
That is fascinating... what else can't you watch?
NCAA Bball. You can subscribe to Sky Sports for NFL and NBA coverage, but college sports are not available. Tough stuff for a Duck fan who works for Gonzaga (we have a campus in Italy).
I have a friend that works at WSU's Nairobi, Kenya campus (medical school) who is always complaining about not being able to see Cougs on TV.
Can't you get a VPN and then just pretend you're in the U.S. and watch anything you want?