I think the chaos caused by the transfer portal will get addressed when the players are employees and can sign (and be signed) to contracts. It wasn't that long ago that schools committing to four year scholarships (instead of one year) was a big deal. It'll take a contract to get athletes to commit to more than one season.
I think contracts are the only way to tie a player to a school. I think we've seen enough to have figured out that anything else will get tossed in court.
What about coaches contracts to lock them in to finishing a season. What about penalties for universities who contact or poach coaches during a season. Stop pointing everything to the players as if they are the ones who are ruining the system. The players are now doing exactly what the key power constituents have done for years...looking out for themselves and their own bottom line. If I'm a player, sure I'll sign a contract, as soon as the coaches and administrators do the same.
it has to go this route. If players are going to have NIL income then there must be regulations around the size and length of contracts and some type of cap system to prevent financial meltdowns and the destruction of competition, just like in other pro sports (college football is now a pro sport with NIL). And we can stop pretending that "collectives" are independent from the athletic department. They aren't. They are an extension of and coordinated by the athletic dept to get and keep the players the team wants. There also needs to be some type of draft system put in place to spread talent around, more or less evenly. These players aren't going to college for an education. Lets drop the pretense. They are going for money and a chance to get to the NFL. So they should be required to adapt to rules put in place to protect competition. I see no point in restricting the portal transfer period to December. They can make it after the end of bowl season since these kids aren't really in it for school, anyway. I mean, these kids that change schools every year aren't really working towards a degree. Moving schools even once, as I did, causes a loss of a lot of school credits towards graduation as each school has different requirements, especially after the sophomore year.
I agree about transferring weakening the "student athlete" argument. It's pretty crazy to think students can transfer two or three times in five years and still be on track to get a meaningful degree. I'm sure there are exceptions, but they are rare. Heck, I remember when a kid changing high schools was a potential red flag in recruiting. Now it's understood the kid is just looking for a better situation athletically.
Not true, most are graduating in 3 years so they can get the extra grad year transfer. Students today have multiple advantages to stay on track (online school, a suite of tutors and academic advisors to help them stay on track). There has never been a better time to be a student-athlete in history of intercollegiate sports.
Exactly, I think Chip Kelly is spot on with his view of revenue sharing. This has to get normalized or there will never be even a semblance of an even playing field. Or decisions that make sense for ALL student athletes, not just the stars at the bright and shiny schools.
I liked most of what you propose. However I don’t think a draft is a good idea. 17% of the players received NIL money this year, from what I was able to find on the internet, which you know is accurate 😁. 1.6% go pro. Should we really have a draft when 83% of the players are actually much closer to a student athlete than a pro athlete? I don’t think so.
disagree, you're making a general assumption about every player (not in it to go to school). There are some who may choose this strategy, but 85-90% of the players fully know and understand that less than 1% of the players who actually play NCAA sports actually achieves a life changing monetary career (greater than 3 years/greater than 1 million per year) in professional sports. The education and the educational institution that they learn at are highly important considerations for 85-90% of these players. Not every player in college sports is receiving significant NIL money.
But the 10-15% of football players you reference, basically all the 4 and 5 star players and 3s that are borderline 4s, about 500 players in all, drive the economics of college football. These are the players requiring regulation. Obviously, those players not able to command big NIL payouts aren’t the issue
It's the 5 star only at the premium positions that are gaining from NIL...It's why you see so many QB's transferring all the time, even the starters transferring from one program to the next. 17% of the college players actually benefit from NIL of the 17%, less than 2% make significant earnings in pro sports.
I like a lot about your point Brian. Don't agree with a draft idea though. That will only ensure that the elite football and basketball schools have all the talent. No more underdog/cinderella stories which are one of the only reasons I watch college football and basketball. I also think that the players who get NIL (what's that, about 20% of skill players?) should have to pay for their education now that they are professionals. The whole idea of a set funded school like Oregon laying taxpayer money to athletes who are paid to play doesn't sound fair.
Understood. I think we all know that ruling. My point is to follow the lead of the major league sports in college since it is truly a professional league, now. Otherwise, chaos will continue. This is not brain surgery. The guidelines for professional sports compensation management have been established over a 50 year period.
Absolutely agree with you about watching bowl games now. The portal and opt-outs impact on performance in bowls has just about totally remove bed my interest. Good thing there is basketball at the same time.
Football is a magnet to me too John. I prefer the NFL, but watch compelling college match ups when I have time. duels. The players that opt out can give all the reasons in the world for not playing. What they are really saying is, We could care less that your fundraised NIL money for me, or that you came out in the rain and snow to cheer for me - I'm off to the NFL or my new team. See Ya suckers." Bowl games featuring a 5-8 team against a 6-7 team are meaningless cash grabs. As you mention, so many opt outs now demonstrate that the fan is the sucker again. The NCAA and the Networks expect us to watch rookie quarterback and running back is so-called season ending The proliferation of bowl games happened so gradually over decades that 80% of them and their ridiculous sponsor names make me yawn. Only NASCAR outdoes them on that score - and not by much. Look for the Colgate Dental Cream-OralB -WaterPIK-Reach DentoTape Bowl coming soon. It will feature a half time contest between each teams top defensive player and offensive player with the most winning smile. The three games I am interested in are the semi and final games... what other sport would allow six weekend between the last regular season game and the championship game? Talk about momentum killing moves. Harsh note to follow - I'm going biking and then coming home to help cook an amazing dinner to share with my family followed by our choice of about twenty great films or compelling dramas on NetFlix/HBO MAX or Prime. 😎
CFB fans are now, as Seinfeld said, "rooting for laundry", a bunch of players rented by rich donors, wearing <insert your team's name here> uniforms this year, who are just temporary mercenaries that will move on when a better offer comes along.
The bowl game viewing experience, aside from the SEC Invitational, AKA, CFP, is now one step above watching a spring scrimmage, and only that one step above because there's a different school's squad on the other side of the ball.
I've actually found a fair number of the bowl games competitive and fun to watch, and the same for the FCS playoffs. The reason is some players and some teams still playing hard, and caring about playing. Same with the fan bases in some cases, and bands, etc. The tradeoff is the level of play at the FCS and "mid-tier" games is a noticeable step down, even though the effort generally isn't.
College sports have always been a different viewing choice from pro sports, and it still is, but within college sports there is now getting to be more of a tier effect. And its magnified by the difference in watching on tv and watching live on scene.
I think the demise of print journalism, and beat reporters who reported on specific teams, means there is less "hype & follow" that draws attention to bowl games. Sure, the Playoff sucks a lot of the energy, but the reduction in coverage overall means less fan interest.
Agree completely, with all of the opt outs, we're not even watching the same teams. Unless you are a diehard fan of a particular school playing, these are not quality football games. Pity.
Happy Boxing Day, everyone. Nice recap, John, 2024 should prove to be as chaotic as the one just past. My grandson-in-law was here with the family Christmas, he is a Beaver and active with the Forestry Department. He says your assessment of Dr. Murthy is spot on, and they are all looking forward to what she will lead the school to in the near future. He has met her several times and remains very positive about her and her potential at Oregon State. So thanks again. Last week we were talking about engineers, and since I am hooking up early I'll take a minute to summarize for those who are not totally familiar with the engineering mind what they are contending with. I have a brief illustration: Pessimist: "the glass is half empty." Optimist: "the glass is half full." Engineer:
Charles...the real answer is the glass is FULL....1/2 with liquid and 1/2 with air....both "fluids". Ha!Ha! And your son is right...Dr. Murthy is tough...and smart. Maybe she is the NCAA czar JC is looking for?
John. Thanks for all you have done these past months to help us navigate the PAC12 mess. In the earliest days of the debacle, I took the high road telling myself that as Cougars we would land on our feet and move forward because, after all that is what Cougars do. My faith in that statement was shaky at times, but reading your daily email always helped step back from the edge. Thank you.
Proud to be a subscriber and actually look forward to what the new years brings (at least as far as WSU is concerned).
Did you see the Seattle Times article about the UW President and her role in this mess? Never have been and never will be a fan of the purple and yellow. And I will always think the Apple Cup should be retired…
Agreed. Yellow blows. It’s purple and gold for me.
So, what did she do wrong? She tried to make it work. She wanted it to work. She wasn’t wrong for considering a backup plan in case it didn’t work. Which it didn’t. Not bc of her, but in spite of her. She was in an extremely difficult position. Sink or swim. She chose swim.
U$C and UCLA were long gone. Colorado left the party early too. The four corner schools had their deal in the works also. It sucked for OSU and WSU that they were left out, and that they didn’t have a backup plan.
The court decision made Dr Murthy a hero at OSU. What about her actions while all this was happening? What about the WSU president? Are you happy with their naive performance? Are you confident that they will lead the PAC-2 back to P5 status?
I don't think it was naive. I think in the long run they will come out further ahead by not making such a rushed impulsive decision where they gave up shares for upwards of 8 years, especially now when they will receive a quarter of what they were expecting this year. Reality bites sometimes.
With regard to O & UW, I’m not sure that’s the case. They settled for less, but that equals what they were getting on the expiring contract, and 75% more than the Apple offer. They’re in one of the top two conferences, and in an expanded recruiting footprint. A plane ride is a plane ride. The extra expenses are blown out of proportion.
The teams that are the most screwed are Stanford and Cal. That’s a head scratcher. The ACC? That’ll be gone in less than two years. I certainly think the PAC-2 schools fared better than them, even before the financial judgement.
I’m still hoping that the Cougs n Beavs can tread water long enough to latch onto a P4 conference that includes equal or better programs. Reaching down wont end well for them, unless they’re satisfied not playing the dirty game year after year.
I know, they re solid and have fewer long term issues. Luxury and comfort. But BMW is all about luxury and performance. Pretentious as heck, but you find yourself not caring. Haha
Agree, front wheel drive is superior in snow to rear wheel drive. Very few if any BMW/Audi/Mercedes come in front wheel drive, but most models have an all wheel drive option. Also, making an even bigger difference is having winter tires, which are mandated by law in Germany.
I agree with most of the comments in the article today, but I would strongly dissent from "But it’s time we stopped saying the conference (the Pac-12) is dead. Oregon State and Washington State are in control and focused on a rebuild. I’m looking forward to seeing what they do with it." The Pac-12 is most definitely dead. When you remove 83% of the fanbase, it is no longer the same entity. They may keep the name, but it's like pretending that the tribute band you saw at the pub last weekend was the actual Beatles.
Hmmm. Millions of people have seen the Eagles without Randy Meisner, Bernie Leadon, Don Felder and now Glenn Frey. So are people pretending they saw the Eagles, when 4/5 of the original/early band members are dead or have been replaced? Or did they see the Eagles?
Are we drifting into Ship of Theseus territory here? How many conferences have lost and gained schools during their existence? I'm going to guess all of them. Are they still the same ship?
Why does the Big 10 have 18 teams, while the Big 12 has 16? Why not call them the Big 18 and the Big 16? Does anything about college football make any sense?
You’re taking his analogy and twisting it to justify your hope. You are mostly right about the Eagles, although for me it includes an asterisk. The band changed over time, and different musicians worked their way in. Things evolve, sure. The PAC-12 has been blown up. John Denver died in a plane crash. Just because some dude cuts his hair, wears round glasses, and sings “Rocky Mountain High” on the bar circuit, doesn’t make him John Denver. That’s the point.
The conference has been here before...what you knew of the PAC-12 has changed multiple times over the years. Our current change is no different. Just because some teams chose to move on doesn't mean the conference can't move onward as well. In 25 years, my grandkids will recognize the PAC-12 as something completely different than what it was or has been. When Rich Brooks was a player at Oregon State, the Beavers and 4 other schools disbanded from the conference and played as independents. How many of us knew this? The conference should continue onward, too much history and tradition to just ignore and assume it is dead.
100%, like the old saying the best of times or the worst of times, could be either, only time will tell. The big thing is to keep the 108 year tradition alive because once it dies, it's dead forever and the former players will have nothing to tie themselves to.
Here’s a scenario for you. The ACC dissolves. Stanford and Cal return to the PAC-X. They add four upper level schools. Now we’re onto something. You still have the Van Halen boys, and losing David Lee Roth isn’t going to break up the band as long as you can add a Sammy Hagar.
Merry Christmas John, hope yours was just right! As far as traditions. I think our family started forgoing exchanging gifts 25 years ago. We instead every year take up a collection and find a family. in need. Over the years have given away over $50k to families with needs that dont otherwise get met. We still gather, but we have found a way to seek the real Christmas spirit.
One thing on Kelly's vision is the football conference will not get up to 64 teams. I think we will be lucky to have 40 teams as it is clear currently that no team that can get more will share willingly with schools they don't have to give it to even if they are worthy. The issue will be exclusion (i.e. the old Power 5 with 4 slots) vs access (March madness). The 12 team CFP is still trying to walk the line between both and with the Power 2, they will hold all the cards for the next steps.
Yes, there will be a natural breakpoint where schools which don’t bring enough TV revenue value will not be included. Everything I’ve seen predicts somewhere around 32 or 36 schools. This Charlie Baker pay proposal looks like it might precipitate some of this movement, as it’s highly likely the less well funded programs will opt out of the highest level.
There will be a need for the Illinois, Syracuses, Vanderbilts, and Californias of the world, to soak up some losses, or else there will be too many supposed blue bloods with 7-5 records, because someone loses in every game. The NFL has adjusted to the idea of 10-7 being an outstanding season, but even 2 losses in a season is not acceptable with too many programs, even if they are raking in unprecedented revenue.
There are plenty of schools who bring high value TV market revenue who don’t routinely win 10 games. Cal, Maryland, UCLA, Rutgers, Virginia, UNC, Miami, etc. The ones getting bounced will be the teams in smaller markets without enough historical success to have larger regional followings, like Wake Forest, Syracuse, Vandy, OSU, WSU, most of the Big 12, etc. Having 12 playoff spots will mean some teams with 2 losses will get in every year, which is all they really care about.
There is a chance an end of field brawl will break out in a blowout game. So, you're certainly missing out on that potential upside to watching a desultory game between mediocre directional state teams whose best players have opted out.
John, have you ever talked to any Beaver fan's? The one's like me, giving a little to OSU, hardcore fan. I've talked to many of my fellow Beaver fan's, and the one consistent message is that WE WANT NOTHING TO DO WITH THE DUCKS! You understand that by using CAPS I'm basically yelling that to you? So why in the HELL would we want to make it easy on them for non-revenue sports to allow them to join a "PAC 12" conference for only non-revenue sports? Ducks, Huskys, Cal, Stanford, etc, all decided to leave, why make it easy on them? Now if they're willing to pay to join, yeah, why not? If it's enough money. I enjoy reading what you right, even when you're wrong, hopefully the Big 10 will treat you right. I'm sure you'll be flying and not driving to away games for your duckies.
I know lots of folks who are 'real' Beaver fans and they don't feel this way at all. The whole situation is garbage, most Duck fans that I know don't like it either. Ducks and Beavs not playing any and every sport makes the world a worse place. You'd really rather cut your nose off to spite your face by being stuck playing WCC and MWC teams? Sounds fun!
Not cutting my "nose off to spite my face"....it's called having ethics, having standards. The Duck's elected to leave the Pac-12, the Pac-12 fell apart. The Ducks are getting, or will get, upwards of $50 mil per year to be in the Big 10, the Beavers will probably be lucky to clear $10m per year where ever they land. So going forward, how can the Beavers even hope to compete against the Ducks given the disparity in funding? Teams that play in the non-revenue sports can do quite well coming from what you believe to be inferior conferences, Fresno State, Coastal Carolina, Cal State Fullerton, are just some of the teams that have won the College Baseball World Series, many teams outside of "your" elitist Big 10/SEC teams have won championships, or competed for championships have come from your "minor" conferences.
But the most important thing is why reward the schools that ruined the PAC-12 by given them an easy victory (Beavers won't be funded like them, won't have the resources), while giving them the opportunity to save on travel costs by playing the Beavers? Unless the Beavers are making as much money as them, HELL NO in allowing the backstabbing defectors to have an easy way out!
You seem to think the Beavs have all the power here. For the non-revenue sports, all that needs to happen is for UW, Oregon, UCLA, and USC to band together and ask San Diego State, Fresno State, Boise State, and a few others to join them for scheduling purposes. If OSU and WSU get asked, I’m sure they’ll quickly say yes rather than continue crying over what happened with football.
Not if they are already in a conference. You’ll be the place looking for a home not them and unless you have something to provide them in the non-revenue sports (which you don’t) they won’t leave their football conference to help you out.
By themselves no, but there are about to be many more who are on the outside looking in related to football that used to be on the inside and if they were all to band together, they have considerable power and considerable inventory of events that people want to watch and the networks need to fill slots.
The most important thing is maintaining opportunity for those non-revenue athletes, at all schools, who had nothing to do with this situation, and that requires revenue to fund it.
The MWC has out-performed the PAC-12 in many sports head to head over the years. I don't buy the elitist mindset that the PAC-12 is a superior conference. Tulane beat USC just a year ago, Boise State in its heyday, beat the likes of Georgia, Oklahoma and Florida State. The elite mindset largely stems from USC, Stanford, Cal and Washington, who believed their institutions to be intellectually superior, when it's the same information you can glean from a public library that is being taught.
If you have ever have been a parent of a D1 student athlete and if you ask any Beaver athletes, you wouldn't come to your ridiculous conclusion. They want the most competitive situation especially in the sports outside of football. The WCC & MWC are big steps downs from what was the PAC12. I guarantee OSU & WSU will get lesser quality athletes and games if they followed your advice. It's hard for me to understand how you can be a true fan of college athletics with your view. One other thing to understand OU & UW's athletes are fine competing in the Big10 in most sports so the only one you are hurting is the Beaver athletes.
lol, you're so wrong....not meaning to be offensive. I do have kids in my family that have played D1 sports in various conferences, but not in any of your elitist conferences like the Big10/SEC. I'm a true fan of college athletics, I'm a strong believer in the regionalism that college sports used to represent. I'm sorry that I may be living in the past, but I'm conservative and really don't like the "progressive" changes that have come about in college athletics. You talk about competing and competitiveness, how do you expect a team pulling in $10m a year in revenue from football (Beavers) to compete against a team like the ducks pulling in $50m a year? Money from football goes to all the other "minor" sport teams. Not real competitive when the elitist wealthy teams (ducks) beat down on the Peoples teams like the Beavers. The ducks wanted to go their own way, good for them, so let them play other schools that are like them. The Beaver will find plenty of teams to play in our region without having to play the ducks.
The Apple deal was for $20 mil guaranteed and more according to subscriptions. Going forward according to Cauce was simply too big of a risk. Basically there are now two haves and a whole lot of have nots in college football media deals. And the disparity will grow going forward. Even the remaining Power 5 conferences are headed for extinction, it's only a matter of time.
Let them break away, sooner rather than later. I would prefer the top 32 break away, but they have to break away for everything, all sports. The narrative around creating a 32 team super football conference and then letting the rest of sports compete regionally is coming from people inside the 32, because they want their cake and eat it too. Nope... they want to control everything, I think the non 32 should stand up and control their universe against them.
OK. Thanks for responding. My son competed in the Pac12 and loved it. My daughter also loved sports and wanted PAC12/D1. She got a lot more D2/D3 letters in her sports (soccer and track & field) but tried to get into the PAC12. UW was recruiting her but they only would let her come as a preferred walk on so she chose the WCC (SMC) who had a great coach. The problem was on signing day he called her and said he just got hired at Stanford (where he subsequently has won 3 NCs) so my daughter was in tears. Much like Jonathon Smith, the best athletes and coaches will leave to the top conferences. If the Beavs can create a top conference in any of their great sports (Baseball, Gymnastics, etc.) they might continue to get great athletes. If that makes them elitest than maybe we will see some more D1 National Championships here in Corvallis. I loved those Pat Casey teams as did most of us Beaver fans, That's my hope.
The things that might be an advantage in football could end up being a disadvantage in the other sports (ex..lots a away games at far away places, time away from school, mental health, ect...) I think the regional conferences will benefit from this in the “other sports” and see better players opting for these conferences. Keep in mind elite baseball players don’t want to play in the Big10, same goes for softball. If playing in the Big 2 is an advantage for football, why would the non big 2 teams want to give their potential advantage away in the other sports and let them back into a regional conference. If you broke away for football, then you have to live with the potential issues you created for the rest of sports, period. It’s all about football anyways, right.
Only if it is an advantage. The Big 10 & SEC are very strong in most sports and the addition of the 4 Pac schools & UT/Ok will only make them stronger if there is no initative by the Pac 2 to head it off. The ACC also does well in the other sports and the 3 adding will help. The travel will not be a detterent for the top athletes. The problem the Beavs have starts with baseball because the SEC & ACC were already besting the PAC12. If the Beavs don't do something. Those 2 leagues will dominate Baseball like the Big10/Sec.do for football. OSU will have to do something because baseball independence won't cut it in the long run and they already stuck their nose up at WCC baseball.
The bogus RPI Index, which favors the SEC and ACC, similar to the bogus Computer/Poll/Coaches formula favoring the BIG and SEC in football are the vehicles driving this. The entire West Coast has no control over this, but this hidden mechanism, put in place by those who control intercollegiate athletics is driving the mayhem.
Tell me how UO and UW did themselves any favors in baseball or softball? If playing against elite comp as you say is the goal. B10 is not elite in n either. Beavs could use UO as minor leagues with transfer portal. Parents in these sports want to see their kids play, and traveling penn state to watch a 3 game series for the weekend doesn’t seem realistic. Which is why everyone thinks these sports should be regional.
Until you have a study to show the opposite, I'll go with what I know.
The Beavers fans I know want to prove themselves as worthy of the P4, able to continue to compete on the biggest stages possible, and beat the Ducks as often as they can.
They don't want to lower themselves to G5, refuse to play rivals, and hope that they can be an undefeated team with a weak schedule.
They want to show that they can draw eyeballs and compete, making it into the Big 12 or reforming the Pac 12 with maximum number of OoC games against P4 teams and earn it. Not take their ball and go home.
Thanks for confirming you lack any objective data that has a sample size that supports your assertion with any statistical degree of confidence. Assuming the circle you hang with holds opinions representative of a majority is pure BS.
Go ahead and go with what you perceive, just don't try and pass it off in a public forum as fact.
Bowl games have changed from a tourism vehicle to a TV owned product. The games are between Christmas and New Years so families could easily take trips to watch their team play in (usually) sunny and warm locations allowing fans from cold weather towns to escape Winter. Ticket sales were important not ratings points. Now, the location doesn’t matter. Neither does attendance. All bowls care about is that the game is sponsored and on television which helps pay the guarantee. Most of the games are owned by ESPN anyway as a vehicle for their air time. I remember back in 1989 when AD Bill Byrne had to buy 16,000 Independence Bowl tickets in order for Oregon to earn a bowl bid. He did and the Ducks sent well over 20,000 to Shreveport in 20 degree weather to play Tulsa. Times have changed.
The Pac-2 with the purloined funds is alive. The Pac-12 is dead. Good luck after the money runs out because on your own you will not earn a playoff dime.
Come back to the Pac-2 because of travel? Right. Covered by the Pac-2 network?
Chip has the right idea with 32 too many teams. When the Premirere League arrives will be the Pac-2 make the cut? Rhetorical question.
The marketplace and not the Pac-10 left OSU and WSU behind and Smith was smart enough to say so long and go B1G. The Pac-2 had one-sixth of the voting power while the Pac-12 crumbled. Does anyone recall these 2 making a beef over Larry, Larry's moveto SFO, Larry's salary, Larry's expense account. an insane network, the decision not to kill off the B12? In any business enterprize not run by academics, senior partners would not allow the most junior partners who brought next to no money into the partnerdhip to get paid over a loophole.
OSU + WSU helped bring the Pac-12 down. The 2 are far from being victims.
Trying to figure your logic that WSU and OSU helped cause PAC12 collapse? You are directing a lot of venom at the two schools who are simply doing what they have to do to survive. That includes the “purloined funds”, won in court and then in a settlement with the departing 10. I’m not worried about the playoff, I’m happy with the Cougs and Beavs playing at the MWC level with schools that have similar resources. Pullman and Corvallis cannot compete any longer because of NIL, portal and schools located in major metropolitan areas or schools with long term football success and branding.
Don’t understand your sour grapes for the two schools left out but if you’re a Husky or Duck thanks for the “purloined funds”!
He's just bitter that the lunch box the leavers were trying to steal was adjudicated in a court of law, and a Supreme Court at that, to belong to the remainers. Which has as much credence as continuing to claim an election was stolen when 60+ court cases brought to allege as much were found to be without merit and tossed.
No, it's worse than that. The leavers knew that prolonging the legal battle would only lead to a judicial conclusion that they were stealing the remainers lunch money, and it would fully reveal the evidence of that nefarious intent, so they settled out of court.
I forgot to say enjoy the road trips to Piscataway, college Park, Iowa City..etc, I’ll enjoy watching the Duck and Huskies trying to beat Iowa and Penn State much less Michigan and Ohio State.
Jon, serious question here. Aside from the Pac-2 keeping a chunk of funds to pay for life support, you and your Ducks seem to have won just about everything in every way. Why still such vitriol over the Beavers and Cougars? I'm honestly confused.
You bring up the victim idea. Are you concerned about public perception for the Ducks and Huskies? I really do want to know.
The reality is that the fight is over and you overall are the clear victor. Be happy.
I think it's because Duck fans are afraid what the Beavs and Cougars might do. I have a daughter that works at Apple, in the next several years you will be seeing some very unique things in sport coming from them. The Beavs will build a brand, Ducks will stagnate in the Big 10.
I'm still hoping to get Jon's feedback on this, but I have my own guesses. These involve some touchy areas for many Ducks, specifically anything related to the ever-dominating role that money plays in the whole scheme of football these days. Just consider last week's bidding war for players with Uncle Phil standing by with his blank checks.
I think there's a concern among some Duck and Husky fans at how they are perceived with the focus on money, and how their role with the current football arms race has harmed the Beavers and Cougars. Not that they care that much about OSU or WSU, they just don't like how it looks. They are the cute Donald Duck Disney mascot, after all.
But I could be wrong.
I just find it fascinating to see the continued anger directed at OSU and WSU by certain Duck fans when they've really gotten everything they've ever wanted. Thanks to Uncle Phil and their Big-10 deals, they're financially set. Let's be real--the funds directed from the latest Pac-12 settlement really make little difference to UO athletic operations. And the Ducks get to play on the biggest football stage, which has been their dream forever. So why the continued anger and upset?
They are also aware that their inability, along with USC, to compete nationally with the SEC and Big Ten were the major factor that led to the collapse. I think there trepidation about really being able to compete with Michigan and Ohio State, cross country road trips in November, being sentenced to late kickoffs when playing at home to satisfy the network gods and totally screwing all non revenue sports. That’s a lot of guilt for half shares and dramatically increased travel costs just to be second bananas to the Midwest powers.
Keeping the PAC for the other sports is a no brainer and it wouldn't take much to pilot this for 2025 in two sports that they are not doing in the WCC: baseball and track & field. Why not the 4 Big10 schools work with the Big10 to keep baseball & T&F in the Pac and have Stanford/Cal to work with the ACC to do the same. Bring the Pac8 back for those sports to start, they don't move the needle on TV. It makes a lot more sense for travel and even competitiveness. As you say we just need leadership.
It could work.....The non-revenue sports from the 10 teams that left the Pac-12 could join the Pac-2 as non-voting members for just the non-revenue generating sports. The 10 would pay $10m a year each, $100m total each year split between WSU and OSU (for you math challenged ducks that's $50m per year each for WSU and OSU). Regionalism stays intact for the non-revenue sports, Cougars and Beavers get to fund their programs like the other backstabbers (teams that left the Pac-12).
The 10 are not going to pay to provide OSU and WSU a Power 4 level schedule. Why would they pay anything if their motivation is to reduce travel cost? Pay $10M to save $7M?
The escapees that left will follow their new conferences in football, mens and womens basketball. For the men: golf, tennis, cross country, track will travel very little just as they traveled little in the Pac12. Baseball? They will probably play West Coast teams in the pre-season, then half their conference games will be travel, half won't. There just won't be as much travel as some people think. The women have volleyball and softball which will probably travel more than any mens minor sport, but still the conferences will schedule so volleyball will play two opponents per road trip. Softball could be an issue.
So, most of the travel dollars will be football and basketball and there is no chance either will return to a quasi-Pac conference. There just isn't much additional travel expenses to save in other sports that would make a "payment to the Pac2" worthwhile in lieu of travel. Certainly not $10M per year.
If you put Oregon State and Wazzu in the Big 12 for football, Stanford and Cal in the Big Ten for football, and moved all other sports back to the Pac 12 as a non-football conference with all 12 as members it would be ideal.
I just don't think what's ideal is the same thing as what has a clear path to happen contractually.
The former PAC-12 teams that left should not be rewarded by the surviving PAC-12 teams by helping their non-football sports reduce travel costs and wear and tear on their athletes. The leavers picked up the handle. The baggage comes with it.
So, I was listening to a Rich Brooks interview the other day on the Mighty Oregon podcast. He mentioned the fact that when he was playing at OSU, the Beavs, the Ducks and I think it was WSU, had all been kicked out of the PAC-8 and that his entire playing career as a Beav, they played as an Independent. I had never heard this before. I have a feeling this latest round of realignment might be as short lived as Oregon and Oregon State's previous abandonment by the establishment. Would love to hear more about what happened then and how it might relate to what's happening now, John. Happy holidays and as always, thanks so much for all that you do. :)
Yes, in the late 1950’s, USC, UCLA, and Washington we’re all penalized for cheating by the NCAA. That sent UO to the Rose Bowl and the cheating 3 retaliated by dissolving the PAC-8. Both UO and OSC did well as independents, ie. Ducks went to Liberty Bowl and OSC qb, Terry Baker, won the Heisman.
The transfer portal has to be amended. If it cannot be moved back to after the first of the year it needs to be compressed to ten days to two weeks max.
I think the chaos caused by the transfer portal will get addressed when the players are employees and can sign (and be signed) to contracts. It wasn't that long ago that schools committing to four year scholarships (instead of one year) was a big deal. It'll take a contract to get athletes to commit to more than one season.
That's a good point. Contract could lock them into a bowl game.
I think contracts are the only way to tie a player to a school. I think we've seen enough to have figured out that anything else will get tossed in court.
What about coaches contracts to lock them in to finishing a season. What about penalties for universities who contact or poach coaches during a season. Stop pointing everything to the players as if they are the ones who are ruining the system. The players are now doing exactly what the key power constituents have done for years...looking out for themselves and their own bottom line. If I'm a player, sure I'll sign a contract, as soon as the coaches and administrators do the same.
Fair enough. It’s an ugly system as it stands
it has to go this route. If players are going to have NIL income then there must be regulations around the size and length of contracts and some type of cap system to prevent financial meltdowns and the destruction of competition, just like in other pro sports (college football is now a pro sport with NIL). And we can stop pretending that "collectives" are independent from the athletic department. They aren't. They are an extension of and coordinated by the athletic dept to get and keep the players the team wants. There also needs to be some type of draft system put in place to spread talent around, more or less evenly. These players aren't going to college for an education. Lets drop the pretense. They are going for money and a chance to get to the NFL. So they should be required to adapt to rules put in place to protect competition. I see no point in restricting the portal transfer period to December. They can make it after the end of bowl season since these kids aren't really in it for school, anyway. I mean, these kids that change schools every year aren't really working towards a degree. Moving schools even once, as I did, causes a loss of a lot of school credits towards graduation as each school has different requirements, especially after the sophomore year.
I agree about transferring weakening the "student athlete" argument. It's pretty crazy to think students can transfer two or three times in five years and still be on track to get a meaningful degree. I'm sure there are exceptions, but they are rare. Heck, I remember when a kid changing high schools was a potential red flag in recruiting. Now it's understood the kid is just looking for a better situation athletically.
Not true, most are graduating in 3 years so they can get the extra grad year transfer. Students today have multiple advantages to stay on track (online school, a suite of tutors and academic advisors to help them stay on track). There has never been a better time to be a student-athlete in history of intercollegiate sports.
Exactly, I think Chip Kelly is spot on with his view of revenue sharing. This has to get normalized or there will never be even a semblance of an even playing field. Or decisions that make sense for ALL student athletes, not just the stars at the bright and shiny schools.
I liked most of what you propose. However I don’t think a draft is a good idea. 17% of the players received NIL money this year, from what I was able to find on the internet, which you know is accurate 😁. 1.6% go pro. Should we really have a draft when 83% of the players are actually much closer to a student athlete than a pro athlete? I don’t think so.
1000% accurate and ties to the point I was making above :)
disagree, you're making a general assumption about every player (not in it to go to school). There are some who may choose this strategy, but 85-90% of the players fully know and understand that less than 1% of the players who actually play NCAA sports actually achieves a life changing monetary career (greater than 3 years/greater than 1 million per year) in professional sports. The education and the educational institution that they learn at are highly important considerations for 85-90% of these players. Not every player in college sports is receiving significant NIL money.
But the 10-15% of football players you reference, basically all the 4 and 5 star players and 3s that are borderline 4s, about 500 players in all, drive the economics of college football. These are the players requiring regulation. Obviously, those players not able to command big NIL payouts aren’t the issue
It's the 5 star only at the premium positions that are gaining from NIL...It's why you see so many QB's transferring all the time, even the starters transferring from one program to the next. 17% of the college players actually benefit from NIL of the 17%, less than 2% make significant earnings in pro sports.
I like a lot about your point Brian. Don't agree with a draft idea though. That will only ensure that the elite football and basketball schools have all the talent. No more underdog/cinderella stories which are one of the only reasons I watch college football and basketball. I also think that the players who get NIL (what's that, about 20% of skill players?) should have to pay for their education now that they are professionals. The whole idea of a set funded school like Oregon laying taxpayer money to athletes who are paid to play doesn't sound fair.
Excellent points Brian and right on the money!
Understood. I think we all know that ruling. My point is to follow the lead of the major league sports in college since it is truly a professional league, now. Otherwise, chaos will continue. This is not brain surgery. The guidelines for professional sports compensation management have been established over a 50 year period.
Absolutely agree with you about watching bowl games now. The portal and opt-outs impact on performance in bowls has just about totally remove bed my interest. Good thing there is basketball at the same time.
I still watch. I love football. But it's a different viewing experience.
Football is a magnet to me too John. I prefer the NFL, but watch compelling college match ups when I have time. duels. The players that opt out can give all the reasons in the world for not playing. What they are really saying is, We could care less that your fundraised NIL money for me, or that you came out in the rain and snow to cheer for me - I'm off to the NFL or my new team. See Ya suckers." Bowl games featuring a 5-8 team against a 6-7 team are meaningless cash grabs. As you mention, so many opt outs now demonstrate that the fan is the sucker again. The NCAA and the Networks expect us to watch rookie quarterback and running back is so-called season ending The proliferation of bowl games happened so gradually over decades that 80% of them and their ridiculous sponsor names make me yawn. Only NASCAR outdoes them on that score - and not by much. Look for the Colgate Dental Cream-OralB -WaterPIK-Reach DentoTape Bowl coming soon. It will feature a half time contest between each teams top defensive player and offensive player with the most winning smile. The three games I am interested in are the semi and final games... what other sport would allow six weekend between the last regular season game and the championship game? Talk about momentum killing moves. Harsh note to follow - I'm going biking and then coming home to help cook an amazing dinner to share with my family followed by our choice of about twenty great films or compelling dramas on NetFlix/HBO MAX or Prime. 😎
CFB fans are now, as Seinfeld said, "rooting for laundry", a bunch of players rented by rich donors, wearing <insert your team's name here> uniforms this year, who are just temporary mercenaries that will move on when a better offer comes along.
The bowl game viewing experience, aside from the SEC Invitational, AKA, CFP, is now one step above watching a spring scrimmage, and only that one step above because there's a different school's squad on the other side of the ball.
Except they seem to take four hours to play?
I've actually found a fair number of the bowl games competitive and fun to watch, and the same for the FCS playoffs. The reason is some players and some teams still playing hard, and caring about playing. Same with the fan bases in some cases, and bands, etc. The tradeoff is the level of play at the FCS and "mid-tier" games is a noticeable step down, even though the effort generally isn't.
College sports have always been a different viewing choice from pro sports, and it still is, but within college sports there is now getting to be more of a tier effect. And its magnified by the difference in watching on tv and watching live on scene.
I think the demise of print journalism, and beat reporters who reported on specific teams, means there is less "hype & follow" that draws attention to bowl games. Sure, the Playoff sucks a lot of the energy, but the reduction in coverage overall means less fan interest.
Agree completely, with all of the opt outs, we're not even watching the same teams. Unless you are a diehard fan of a particular school playing, these are not quality football games. Pity.
Happy Boxing Day, everyone. Nice recap, John, 2024 should prove to be as chaotic as the one just past. My grandson-in-law was here with the family Christmas, he is a Beaver and active with the Forestry Department. He says your assessment of Dr. Murthy is spot on, and they are all looking forward to what she will lead the school to in the near future. He has met her several times and remains very positive about her and her potential at Oregon State. So thanks again. Last week we were talking about engineers, and since I am hooking up early I'll take a minute to summarize for those who are not totally familiar with the engineering mind what they are contending with. I have a brief illustration: Pessimist: "the glass is half empty." Optimist: "the glass is half full." Engineer:
"the glass is twice to big." Just sayin', Charlie
Charles...the real answer is the glass is FULL....1/2 with liquid and 1/2 with air....both "fluids". Ha!Ha! And your son is right...Dr. Murthy is tough...and smart. Maybe she is the NCAA czar JC is looking for?
John. Thanks for all you have done these past months to help us navigate the PAC12 mess. In the earliest days of the debacle, I took the high road telling myself that as Cougars we would land on our feet and move forward because, after all that is what Cougars do. My faith in that statement was shaky at times, but reading your daily email always helped step back from the edge. Thank you.
Proud to be a subscriber and actually look forward to what the new years brings (at least as far as WSU is concerned).
Did you see the Seattle Times article about the UW President and her role in this mess? Never have been and never will be a fan of the purple and yellow. And I will always think the Apple Cup should be retired…
I wish you and yours the best in 2024 and beyond.
Patricia
Go Cougs from a Beaver fan!
Agreed. Yellow blows. It’s purple and gold for me.
So, what did she do wrong? She tried to make it work. She wanted it to work. She wasn’t wrong for considering a backup plan in case it didn’t work. Which it didn’t. Not bc of her, but in spite of her. She was in an extremely difficult position. Sink or swim. She chose swim.
U$C and UCLA were long gone. Colorado left the party early too. The four corner schools had their deal in the works also. It sucked for OSU and WSU that they were left out, and that they didn’t have a backup plan.
The court decision made Dr Murthy a hero at OSU. What about her actions while all this was happening? What about the WSU president? Are you happy with their naive performance? Are you confident that they will lead the PAC-2 back to P5 status?
I don't think it was naive. I think in the long run they will come out further ahead by not making such a rushed impulsive decision where they gave up shares for upwards of 8 years, especially now when they will receive a quarter of what they were expecting this year. Reality bites sometimes.
With regard to O & UW, I’m not sure that’s the case. They settled for less, but that equals what they were getting on the expiring contract, and 75% more than the Apple offer. They’re in one of the top two conferences, and in an expanded recruiting footprint. A plane ride is a plane ride. The extra expenses are blown out of proportion.
The teams that are the most screwed are Stanford and Cal. That’s a head scratcher. The ACC? That’ll be gone in less than two years. I certainly think the PAC-2 schools fared better than them, even before the financial judgement.
I’m still hoping that the Cougs n Beavs can tread water long enough to latch onto a P4 conference that includes equal or better programs. Reaching down wont end well for them, unless they’re satisfied not playing the dirty game year after year.
Which isn’t a bad plan either.
https://www.seattletimes.com/sports/college/inside-the-frantic-final-days-of-the-pac-12
Behind the dreaded paywall!
Subscriptions help pay the salaries of photographers, writers, editors...
Plus expenses - utilities, printing, taxes.
Why would you want a business to give away product for free?
Well said Patricia...feel the same about the Civil conflict in Oregon. I'm ready to be done with it and find other rivalry games with new traditions.
Front wheel drive is actually better in the snow. Most BMW’s are rear wheel drive, which is terrible in snow. I would check that.
Beat me to it. I don't know of a FWD BMW of any era.
BMW builds a great car but not cheap when it comes to repairs.
They have gotten A LOT better recently, and they drive so freaking nice.
Can't beat the Lexus brand for comfort and drivability.
I know, they re solid and have fewer long term issues. Luxury and comfort. But BMW is all about luxury and performance. Pretentious as heck, but you find yourself not caring. Haha
Agree, front wheel drive is superior in snow to rear wheel drive. Very few if any BMW/Audi/Mercedes come in front wheel drive, but most models have an all wheel drive option. Also, making an even bigger difference is having winter tires, which are mandated by law in Germany.
Actually John what I want for 2024 is for some of your respondents to learn the value of paragraphs.
We call it "stream of consciousness".
And apostrophes.
🤣
I agree with most of the comments in the article today, but I would strongly dissent from "But it’s time we stopped saying the conference (the Pac-12) is dead. Oregon State and Washington State are in control and focused on a rebuild. I’m looking forward to seeing what they do with it." The Pac-12 is most definitely dead. When you remove 83% of the fanbase, it is no longer the same entity. They may keep the name, but it's like pretending that the tribute band you saw at the pub last weekend was the actual Beatles.
Hmmm. Millions of people have seen the Eagles without Randy Meisner, Bernie Leadon, Don Felder and now Glenn Frey. So are people pretending they saw the Eagles, when 4/5 of the original/early band members are dead or have been replaced? Or did they see the Eagles?
Are we drifting into Ship of Theseus territory here? How many conferences have lost and gained schools during their existence? I'm going to guess all of them. Are they still the same ship?
Why does the Big 10 have 18 teams, while the Big 12 has 16? Why not call them the Big 18 and the Big 16? Does anything about college football make any sense?
You’re taking his analogy and twisting it to justify your hope. You are mostly right about the Eagles, although for me it includes an asterisk. The band changed over time, and different musicians worked their way in. Things evolve, sure. The PAC-12 has been blown up. John Denver died in a plane crash. Just because some dude cuts his hair, wears round glasses, and sings “Rocky Mountain High” on the bar circuit, doesn’t make him John Denver. That’s the point.
The conference has been here before...what you knew of the PAC-12 has changed multiple times over the years. Our current change is no different. Just because some teams chose to move on doesn't mean the conference can't move onward as well. In 25 years, my grandkids will recognize the PAC-12 as something completely different than what it was or has been. When Rich Brooks was a player at Oregon State, the Beavers and 4 other schools disbanded from the conference and played as independents. How many of us knew this? The conference should continue onward, too much history and tradition to just ignore and assume it is dead.
Let’s hope it carries on at a high level
100%, like the old saying the best of times or the worst of times, could be either, only time will tell. The big thing is to keep the 108 year tradition alive because once it dies, it's dead forever and the former players will have nothing to tie themselves to.
Agreed. That’s the real travesty. Tradition. Association. Pride. The memories. The connection between the fans, players and school.
Here’s a scenario for you. The ACC dissolves. Stanford and Cal return to the PAC-X. They add four upper level schools. Now we’re onto something. You still have the Van Halen boys, and losing David Lee Roth isn’t going to break up the band as long as you can add a Sammy Hagar.
Merry Christmas John, hope yours was just right! As far as traditions. I think our family started forgoing exchanging gifts 25 years ago. We instead every year take up a collection and find a family. in need. Over the years have given away over $50k to families with needs that dont otherwise get met. We still gather, but we have found a way to seek the real Christmas spirit.
Well played, Fred. Charlie
One thing on Kelly's vision is the football conference will not get up to 64 teams. I think we will be lucky to have 40 teams as it is clear currently that no team that can get more will share willingly with schools they don't have to give it to even if they are worthy. The issue will be exclusion (i.e. the old Power 5 with 4 slots) vs access (March madness). The 12 team CFP is still trying to walk the line between both and with the Power 2, they will hold all the cards for the next steps.
Yes, there will be a natural breakpoint where schools which don’t bring enough TV revenue value will not be included. Everything I’ve seen predicts somewhere around 32 or 36 schools. This Charlie Baker pay proposal looks like it might precipitate some of this movement, as it’s highly likely the less well funded programs will opt out of the highest level.
There will be a need for the Illinois, Syracuses, Vanderbilts, and Californias of the world, to soak up some losses, or else there will be too many supposed blue bloods with 7-5 records, because someone loses in every game. The NFL has adjusted to the idea of 10-7 being an outstanding season, but even 2 losses in a season is not acceptable with too many programs, even if they are raking in unprecedented revenue.
There are plenty of schools who bring high value TV market revenue who don’t routinely win 10 games. Cal, Maryland, UCLA, Rutgers, Virginia, UNC, Miami, etc. The ones getting bounced will be the teams in smaller markets without enough historical success to have larger regional followings, like Wake Forest, Syracuse, Vandy, OSU, WSU, most of the Big 12, etc. Having 12 playoff spots will mean some teams with 2 losses will get in every year, which is all they really care about.
Have not watched one yet...
Missing out on a lot of fun ball, and soon we will have to wait until the end of August for any.
The L A Bowl was a real barn burner.
There is a chance an end of field brawl will break out in a blowout game. So, you're certainly missing out on that potential upside to watching a desultory game between mediocre directional state teams whose best players have opted out.
Me either Rick. Friday OSU Versus ND. Maybe.
John, have you ever talked to any Beaver fan's? The one's like me, giving a little to OSU, hardcore fan. I've talked to many of my fellow Beaver fan's, and the one consistent message is that WE WANT NOTHING TO DO WITH THE DUCKS! You understand that by using CAPS I'm basically yelling that to you? So why in the HELL would we want to make it easy on them for non-revenue sports to allow them to join a "PAC 12" conference for only non-revenue sports? Ducks, Huskys, Cal, Stanford, etc, all decided to leave, why make it easy on them? Now if they're willing to pay to join, yeah, why not? If it's enough money. I enjoy reading what you right, even when you're wrong, hopefully the Big 10 will treat you right. I'm sure you'll be flying and not driving to away games for your duckies.
I know lots of folks who are 'real' Beaver fans and they don't feel this way at all. The whole situation is garbage, most Duck fans that I know don't like it either. Ducks and Beavs not playing any and every sport makes the world a worse place. You'd really rather cut your nose off to spite your face by being stuck playing WCC and MWC teams? Sounds fun!
Not cutting my "nose off to spite my face"....it's called having ethics, having standards. The Duck's elected to leave the Pac-12, the Pac-12 fell apart. The Ducks are getting, or will get, upwards of $50 mil per year to be in the Big 10, the Beavers will probably be lucky to clear $10m per year where ever they land. So going forward, how can the Beavers even hope to compete against the Ducks given the disparity in funding? Teams that play in the non-revenue sports can do quite well coming from what you believe to be inferior conferences, Fresno State, Coastal Carolina, Cal State Fullerton, are just some of the teams that have won the College Baseball World Series, many teams outside of "your" elitist Big 10/SEC teams have won championships, or competed for championships have come from your "minor" conferences.
But the most important thing is why reward the schools that ruined the PAC-12 by given them an easy victory (Beavers won't be funded like them, won't have the resources), while giving them the opportunity to save on travel costs by playing the Beavers? Unless the Beavers are making as much money as them, HELL NO in allowing the backstabbing defectors to have an easy way out!
You seem to think the Beavs have all the power here. For the non-revenue sports, all that needs to happen is for UW, Oregon, UCLA, and USC to band together and ask San Diego State, Fresno State, Boise State, and a few others to join them for scheduling purposes. If OSU and WSU get asked, I’m sure they’ll quickly say yes rather than continue crying over what happened with football.
Not if they are already in a conference. You’ll be the place looking for a home not them and unless you have something to provide them in the non-revenue sports (which you don’t) they won’t leave their football conference to help you out.
By themselves no, but there are about to be many more who are on the outside looking in related to football that used to be on the inside and if they were all to band together, they have considerable power and considerable inventory of events that people want to watch and the networks need to fill slots.
Ohhhhh! The ol’ “switcheroo!” Well done
You're fired!
No I'm not. I quit!
The most important thing is maintaining opportunity for those non-revenue athletes, at all schools, who had nothing to do with this situation, and that requires revenue to fund it.
The MWC has out-performed the PAC-12 in many sports head to head over the years. I don't buy the elitist mindset that the PAC-12 is a superior conference. Tulane beat USC just a year ago, Boise State in its heyday, beat the likes of Georgia, Oklahoma and Florida State. The elite mindset largely stems from USC, Stanford, Cal and Washington, who believed their institutions to be intellectually superior, when it's the same information you can glean from a public library that is being taught.
If you have ever have been a parent of a D1 student athlete and if you ask any Beaver athletes, you wouldn't come to your ridiculous conclusion. They want the most competitive situation especially in the sports outside of football. The WCC & MWC are big steps downs from what was the PAC12. I guarantee OSU & WSU will get lesser quality athletes and games if they followed your advice. It's hard for me to understand how you can be a true fan of college athletics with your view. One other thing to understand OU & UW's athletes are fine competing in the Big10 in most sports so the only one you are hurting is the Beaver athletes.
lol, you're so wrong....not meaning to be offensive. I do have kids in my family that have played D1 sports in various conferences, but not in any of your elitist conferences like the Big10/SEC. I'm a true fan of college athletics, I'm a strong believer in the regionalism that college sports used to represent. I'm sorry that I may be living in the past, but I'm conservative and really don't like the "progressive" changes that have come about in college athletics. You talk about competing and competitiveness, how do you expect a team pulling in $10m a year in revenue from football (Beavers) to compete against a team like the ducks pulling in $50m a year? Money from football goes to all the other "minor" sport teams. Not real competitive when the elitist wealthy teams (ducks) beat down on the Peoples teams like the Beavers. The ducks wanted to go their own way, good for them, so let them play other schools that are like them. The Beaver will find plenty of teams to play in our region without having to play the ducks.
The Apple deal was for $20 mil guaranteed and more according to subscriptions. Going forward according to Cauce was simply too big of a risk. Basically there are now two haves and a whole lot of have nots in college football media deals. And the disparity will grow going forward. Even the remaining Power 5 conferences are headed for extinction, it's only a matter of time.
Let them break away, sooner rather than later. I would prefer the top 32 break away, but they have to break away for everything, all sports. The narrative around creating a 32 team super football conference and then letting the rest of sports compete regionally is coming from people inside the 32, because they want their cake and eat it too. Nope... they want to control everything, I think the non 32 should stand up and control their universe against them.
For the benefit of...... ?
OK. Thanks for responding. My son competed in the Pac12 and loved it. My daughter also loved sports and wanted PAC12/D1. She got a lot more D2/D3 letters in her sports (soccer and track & field) but tried to get into the PAC12. UW was recruiting her but they only would let her come as a preferred walk on so she chose the WCC (SMC) who had a great coach. The problem was on signing day he called her and said he just got hired at Stanford (where he subsequently has won 3 NCs) so my daughter was in tears. Much like Jonathon Smith, the best athletes and coaches will leave to the top conferences. If the Beavs can create a top conference in any of their great sports (Baseball, Gymnastics, etc.) they might continue to get great athletes. If that makes them elitest than maybe we will see some more D1 National Championships here in Corvallis. I loved those Pat Casey teams as did most of us Beaver fans, That's my hope.
The things that might be an advantage in football could end up being a disadvantage in the other sports (ex..lots a away games at far away places, time away from school, mental health, ect...) I think the regional conferences will benefit from this in the “other sports” and see better players opting for these conferences. Keep in mind elite baseball players don’t want to play in the Big10, same goes for softball. If playing in the Big 2 is an advantage for football, why would the non big 2 teams want to give their potential advantage away in the other sports and let them back into a regional conference. If you broke away for football, then you have to live with the potential issues you created for the rest of sports, period. It’s all about football anyways, right.
Only if it is an advantage. The Big 10 & SEC are very strong in most sports and the addition of the 4 Pac schools & UT/Ok will only make them stronger if there is no initative by the Pac 2 to head it off. The ACC also does well in the other sports and the 3 adding will help. The travel will not be a detterent for the top athletes. The problem the Beavs have starts with baseball because the SEC & ACC were already besting the PAC12. If the Beavs don't do something. Those 2 leagues will dominate Baseball like the Big10/Sec.do for football. OSU will have to do something because baseball independence won't cut it in the long run and they already stuck their nose up at WCC baseball.
The bogus RPI Index, which favors the SEC and ACC, similar to the bogus Computer/Poll/Coaches formula favoring the BIG and SEC in football are the vehicles driving this. The entire West Coast has no control over this, but this hidden mechanism, put in place by those who control intercollegiate athletics is driving the mayhem.
Tell me how UO and UW did themselves any favors in baseball or softball? If playing against elite comp as you say is the goal. B10 is not elite in n either. Beavs could use UO as minor leagues with transfer portal. Parents in these sports want to see their kids play, and traveling penn state to watch a 3 game series for the weekend doesn’t seem realistic. Which is why everyone thinks these sports should be regional.
You're the vocal minority of Beaver fans.
Please provide any objective evidence to back up that assertion.
Until you have a study to show the opposite, I'll go with what I know.
The Beavers fans I know want to prove themselves as worthy of the P4, able to continue to compete on the biggest stages possible, and beat the Ducks as often as they can.
They don't want to lower themselves to G5, refuse to play rivals, and hope that they can be an undefeated team with a weak schedule.
They want to show that they can draw eyeballs and compete, making it into the Big 12 or reforming the Pac 12 with maximum number of OoC games against P4 teams and earn it. Not take their ball and go home.
Thanks for confirming you lack any objective data that has a sample size that supports your assertion with any statistical degree of confidence. Assuming the circle you hang with holds opinions representative of a majority is pure BS.
Go ahead and go with what you perceive, just don't try and pass it off in a public forum as fact.
Sounds like you equally have no data and are just a bitter, bitter man.
lol, Mathias is a duck fan, don’t they know everything? I’m wondering why duck fans are so eager to play the Beavs in all sports, why??
Exactly, 1000%.
Bowl games have changed from a tourism vehicle to a TV owned product. The games are between Christmas and New Years so families could easily take trips to watch their team play in (usually) sunny and warm locations allowing fans from cold weather towns to escape Winter. Ticket sales were important not ratings points. Now, the location doesn’t matter. Neither does attendance. All bowls care about is that the game is sponsored and on television which helps pay the guarantee. Most of the games are owned by ESPN anyway as a vehicle for their air time. I remember back in 1989 when AD Bill Byrne had to buy 16,000 Independence Bowl tickets in order for Oregon to earn a bowl bid. He did and the Ducks sent well over 20,000 to Shreveport in 20 degree weather to play Tulsa. Times have changed.
The Pac-2 with the purloined funds is alive. The Pac-12 is dead. Good luck after the money runs out because on your own you will not earn a playoff dime.
Come back to the Pac-2 because of travel? Right. Covered by the Pac-2 network?
Chip has the right idea with 32 too many teams. When the Premirere League arrives will be the Pac-2 make the cut? Rhetorical question.
The marketplace and not the Pac-10 left OSU and WSU behind and Smith was smart enough to say so long and go B1G. The Pac-2 had one-sixth of the voting power while the Pac-12 crumbled. Does anyone recall these 2 making a beef over Larry, Larry's moveto SFO, Larry's salary, Larry's expense account. an insane network, the decision not to kill off the B12? In any business enterprize not run by academics, senior partners would not allow the most junior partners who brought next to no money into the partnerdhip to get paid over a loophole.
OSU + WSU helped bring the Pac-12 down. The 2 are far from being victims.
Trying to figure your logic that WSU and OSU helped cause PAC12 collapse? You are directing a lot of venom at the two schools who are simply doing what they have to do to survive. That includes the “purloined funds”, won in court and then in a settlement with the departing 10. I’m not worried about the playoff, I’m happy with the Cougs and Beavs playing at the MWC level with schools that have similar resources. Pullman and Corvallis cannot compete any longer because of NIL, portal and schools located in major metropolitan areas or schools with long term football success and branding.
Don’t understand your sour grapes for the two schools left out but if you’re a Husky or Duck thanks for the “purloined funds”!
He's just bitter that the lunch box the leavers were trying to steal was adjudicated in a court of law, and a Supreme Court at that, to belong to the remainers. Which has as much credence as continuing to claim an election was stolen when 60+ court cases brought to allege as much were found to be without merit and tossed.
No, it's worse than that. The leavers knew that prolonging the legal battle would only lead to a judicial conclusion that they were stealing the remainers lunch money, and it would fully reveal the evidence of that nefarious intent, so they settled out of court.
I forgot to say enjoy the road trips to Piscataway, college Park, Iowa City..etc, I’ll enjoy watching the Duck and Huskies trying to beat Iowa and Penn State much less Michigan and Ohio State.
Jon, serious question here. Aside from the Pac-2 keeping a chunk of funds to pay for life support, you and your Ducks seem to have won just about everything in every way. Why still such vitriol over the Beavers and Cougars? I'm honestly confused.
You bring up the victim idea. Are you concerned about public perception for the Ducks and Huskies? I really do want to know.
The reality is that the fight is over and you overall are the clear victor. Be happy.
I think it's because Duck fans are afraid what the Beavs and Cougars might do. I have a daughter that works at Apple, in the next several years you will be seeing some very unique things in sport coming from them. The Beavs will build a brand, Ducks will stagnate in the Big 10.
Interesting thought, Rick.
I'm still hoping to get Jon's feedback on this, but I have my own guesses. These involve some touchy areas for many Ducks, specifically anything related to the ever-dominating role that money plays in the whole scheme of football these days. Just consider last week's bidding war for players with Uncle Phil standing by with his blank checks.
I think there's a concern among some Duck and Husky fans at how they are perceived with the focus on money, and how their role with the current football arms race has harmed the Beavers and Cougars. Not that they care that much about OSU or WSU, they just don't like how it looks. They are the cute Donald Duck Disney mascot, after all.
But I could be wrong.
I just find it fascinating to see the continued anger directed at OSU and WSU by certain Duck fans when they've really gotten everything they've ever wanted. Thanks to Uncle Phil and their Big-10 deals, they're financially set. Let's be real--the funds directed from the latest Pac-12 settlement really make little difference to UO athletic operations. And the Ducks get to play on the biggest football stage, which has been their dream forever. So why the continued anger and upset?
They are also aware that their inability, along with USC, to compete nationally with the SEC and Big Ten were the major factor that led to the collapse. I think there trepidation about really being able to compete with Michigan and Ohio State, cross country road trips in November, being sentenced to late kickoffs when playing at home to satisfy the network gods and totally screwing all non revenue sports. That’s a lot of guilt for half shares and dramatically increased travel costs just to be second bananas to the Midwest powers.
Keeping the PAC for the other sports is a no brainer and it wouldn't take much to pilot this for 2025 in two sports that they are not doing in the WCC: baseball and track & field. Why not the 4 Big10 schools work with the Big10 to keep baseball & T&F in the Pac and have Stanford/Cal to work with the ACC to do the same. Bring the Pac8 back for those sports to start, they don't move the needle on TV. It makes a lot more sense for travel and even competitiveness. As you say we just need leadership.
It could work.....The non-revenue sports from the 10 teams that left the Pac-12 could join the Pac-2 as non-voting members for just the non-revenue generating sports. The 10 would pay $10m a year each, $100m total each year split between WSU and OSU (for you math challenged ducks that's $50m per year each for WSU and OSU). Regionalism stays intact for the non-revenue sports, Cougars and Beavers get to fund their programs like the other backstabbers (teams that left the Pac-12).
The 10 are not going to pay to provide OSU and WSU a Power 4 level schedule. Why would they pay anything if their motivation is to reduce travel cost? Pay $10M to save $7M?
It’s the Pac12 contract. They don’t have a choice.
??. Not sure you understood the context.
The escapees that left will follow their new conferences in football, mens and womens basketball. For the men: golf, tennis, cross country, track will travel very little just as they traveled little in the Pac12. Baseball? They will probably play West Coast teams in the pre-season, then half their conference games will be travel, half won't. There just won't be as much travel as some people think. The women have volleyball and softball which will probably travel more than any mens minor sport, but still the conferences will schedule so volleyball will play two opponents per road trip. Softball could be an issue.
So, most of the travel dollars will be football and basketball and there is no chance either will return to a quasi-Pac conference. There just isn't much additional travel expenses to save in other sports that would make a "payment to the Pac2" worthwhile in lieu of travel. Certainly not $10M per year.
If you put Oregon State and Wazzu in the Big 12 for football, Stanford and Cal in the Big Ten for football, and moved all other sports back to the Pac 12 as a non-football conference with all 12 as members it would be ideal.
I just don't think what's ideal is the same thing as what has a clear path to happen contractually.
The former PAC-12 teams that left should not be rewarded by the surviving PAC-12 teams by helping their non-football sports reduce travel costs and wear and tear on their athletes. The leavers picked up the handle. The baggage comes with it.
If you can't see past your grievances and do what's best for your program than you shouldn't be anywhere near decision making.
Refusing to play good teams is cutting off your nose to spite your face.
There are plenty of good teams other than hole to play. Don't care about hole, Don't dig hole deeper. Stay away from hole. No hole is the best hole.
Ftd.
So, I was listening to a Rich Brooks interview the other day on the Mighty Oregon podcast. He mentioned the fact that when he was playing at OSU, the Beavs, the Ducks and I think it was WSU, had all been kicked out of the PAC-8 and that his entire playing career as a Beav, they played as an Independent. I had never heard this before. I have a feeling this latest round of realignment might be as short lived as Oregon and Oregon State's previous abandonment by the establishment. Would love to hear more about what happened then and how it might relate to what's happening now, John. Happy holidays and as always, thanks so much for all that you do. :)
Yes, in the late 1950’s, USC, UCLA, and Washington we’re all penalized for cheating by the NCAA. That sent UO to the Rose Bowl and the cheating 3 retaliated by dissolving the PAC-8. Both UO and OSC did well as independents, ie. Ducks went to Liberty Bowl and OSC qb, Terry Baker, won the Heisman.
Beavs went to the Liberty Bowl. The ironic thing is, now, some 60 years later, knight school is playing in "The Liberty Bowl".
1960 Liberty Bowl: Penn State 41, Oregon 12
1963 Sun Bowl: Oregon 21, SMU 14
The transfer portal has to be amended. If it cannot be moved back to after the first of the year it needs to be compressed to ten days to two weeks max.