John, have you ever talked to any Beaver fan's? The one's like me, giving a little to OSU, hardcore fan. I've talked to many of my fellow Beaver fan's, and the one consistent message is that WE WANT NOTHING TO DO WITH THE DUCKS! You understand that by using CAPS I'm basically yelling that to you? So why in the HELL would we want to make …
John, have you ever talked to any Beaver fan's? The one's like me, giving a little to OSU, hardcore fan. I've talked to many of my fellow Beaver fan's, and the one consistent message is that WE WANT NOTHING TO DO WITH THE DUCKS! You understand that by using CAPS I'm basically yelling that to you? So why in the HELL would we want to make it easy on them for non-revenue sports to allow them to join a "PAC 12" conference for only non-revenue sports? Ducks, Huskys, Cal, Stanford, etc, all decided to leave, why make it easy on them? Now if they're willing to pay to join, yeah, why not? If it's enough money. I enjoy reading what you right, even when you're wrong, hopefully the Big 10 will treat you right. I'm sure you'll be flying and not driving to away games for your duckies.
I know lots of folks who are 'real' Beaver fans and they don't feel this way at all. The whole situation is garbage, most Duck fans that I know don't like it either. Ducks and Beavs not playing any and every sport makes the world a worse place. You'd really rather cut your nose off to spite your face by being stuck playing WCC and MWC teams? Sounds fun!
Not cutting my "nose off to spite my face"....it's called having ethics, having standards. The Duck's elected to leave the Pac-12, the Pac-12 fell apart. The Ducks are getting, or will get, upwards of $50 mil per year to be in the Big 10, the Beavers will probably be lucky to clear $10m per year where ever they land. So going forward, how can the Beavers even hope to compete against the Ducks given the disparity in funding? Teams that play in the non-revenue sports can do quite well coming from what you believe to be inferior conferences, Fresno State, Coastal Carolina, Cal State Fullerton, are just some of the teams that have won the College Baseball World Series, many teams outside of "your" elitist Big 10/SEC teams have won championships, or competed for championships have come from your "minor" conferences.
But the most important thing is why reward the schools that ruined the PAC-12 by given them an easy victory (Beavers won't be funded like them, won't have the resources), while giving them the opportunity to save on travel costs by playing the Beavers? Unless the Beavers are making as much money as them, HELL NO in allowing the backstabbing defectors to have an easy way out!
You seem to think the Beavs have all the power here. For the non-revenue sports, all that needs to happen is for UW, Oregon, UCLA, and USC to band together and ask San Diego State, Fresno State, Boise State, and a few others to join them for scheduling purposes. If OSU and WSU get asked, I’m sure they’ll quickly say yes rather than continue crying over what happened with football.
Not if they are already in a conference. You’ll be the place looking for a home not them and unless you have something to provide them in the non-revenue sports (which you don’t) they won’t leave their football conference to help you out.
By themselves no, but there are about to be many more who are on the outside looking in related to football that used to be on the inside and if they were all to band together, they have considerable power and considerable inventory of events that people want to watch and the networks need to fill slots.
The most important thing is maintaining opportunity for those non-revenue athletes, at all schools, who had nothing to do with this situation, and that requires revenue to fund it.
The MWC has out-performed the PAC-12 in many sports head to head over the years. I don't buy the elitist mindset that the PAC-12 is a superior conference. Tulane beat USC just a year ago, Boise State in its heyday, beat the likes of Georgia, Oklahoma and Florida State. The elite mindset largely stems from USC, Stanford, Cal and Washington, who believed their institutions to be intellectually superior, when it's the same information you can glean from a public library that is being taught.
If you have ever have been a parent of a D1 student athlete and if you ask any Beaver athletes, you wouldn't come to your ridiculous conclusion. They want the most competitive situation especially in the sports outside of football. The WCC & MWC are big steps downs from what was the PAC12. I guarantee OSU & WSU will get lesser quality athletes and games if they followed your advice. It's hard for me to understand how you can be a true fan of college athletics with your view. One other thing to understand OU & UW's athletes are fine competing in the Big10 in most sports so the only one you are hurting is the Beaver athletes.
lol, you're so wrong....not meaning to be offensive. I do have kids in my family that have played D1 sports in various conferences, but not in any of your elitist conferences like the Big10/SEC. I'm a true fan of college athletics, I'm a strong believer in the regionalism that college sports used to represent. I'm sorry that I may be living in the past, but I'm conservative and really don't like the "progressive" changes that have come about in college athletics. You talk about competing and competitiveness, how do you expect a team pulling in $10m a year in revenue from football (Beavers) to compete against a team like the ducks pulling in $50m a year? Money from football goes to all the other "minor" sport teams. Not real competitive when the elitist wealthy teams (ducks) beat down on the Peoples teams like the Beavers. The ducks wanted to go their own way, good for them, so let them play other schools that are like them. The Beaver will find plenty of teams to play in our region without having to play the ducks.
The Apple deal was for $20 mil guaranteed and more according to subscriptions. Going forward according to Cauce was simply too big of a risk. Basically there are now two haves and a whole lot of have nots in college football media deals. And the disparity will grow going forward. Even the remaining Power 5 conferences are headed for extinction, it's only a matter of time.
Let them break away, sooner rather than later. I would prefer the top 32 break away, but they have to break away for everything, all sports. The narrative around creating a 32 team super football conference and then letting the rest of sports compete regionally is coming from people inside the 32, because they want their cake and eat it too. Nope... they want to control everything, I think the non 32 should stand up and control their universe against them.
OK. Thanks for responding. My son competed in the Pac12 and loved it. My daughter also loved sports and wanted PAC12/D1. She got a lot more D2/D3 letters in her sports (soccer and track & field) but tried to get into the PAC12. UW was recruiting her but they only would let her come as a preferred walk on so she chose the WCC (SMC) who had a great coach. The problem was on signing day he called her and said he just got hired at Stanford (where he subsequently has won 3 NCs) so my daughter was in tears. Much like Jonathon Smith, the best athletes and coaches will leave to the top conferences. If the Beavs can create a top conference in any of their great sports (Baseball, Gymnastics, etc.) they might continue to get great athletes. If that makes them elitest than maybe we will see some more D1 National Championships here in Corvallis. I loved those Pat Casey teams as did most of us Beaver fans, That's my hope.
The things that might be an advantage in football could end up being a disadvantage in the other sports (ex..lots a away games at far away places, time away from school, mental health, ect...) I think the regional conferences will benefit from this in the “other sports” and see better players opting for these conferences. Keep in mind elite baseball players don’t want to play in the Big10, same goes for softball. If playing in the Big 2 is an advantage for football, why would the non big 2 teams want to give their potential advantage away in the other sports and let them back into a regional conference. If you broke away for football, then you have to live with the potential issues you created for the rest of sports, period. It’s all about football anyways, right.
Only if it is an advantage. The Big 10 & SEC are very strong in most sports and the addition of the 4 Pac schools & UT/Ok will only make them stronger if there is no initative by the Pac 2 to head it off. The ACC also does well in the other sports and the 3 adding will help. The travel will not be a detterent for the top athletes. The problem the Beavs have starts with baseball because the SEC & ACC were already besting the PAC12. If the Beavs don't do something. Those 2 leagues will dominate Baseball like the Big10/Sec.do for football. OSU will have to do something because baseball independence won't cut it in the long run and they already stuck their nose up at WCC baseball.
The bogus RPI Index, which favors the SEC and ACC, similar to the bogus Computer/Poll/Coaches formula favoring the BIG and SEC in football are the vehicles driving this. The entire West Coast has no control over this, but this hidden mechanism, put in place by those who control intercollegiate athletics is driving the mayhem.
You are right which is why the Beavs couldn't move to the WCC on baseball. The SEC had 8 of the top 12 in the final RPI in 2023 and the next 5 were no worse than than 46 with only Ole Miss coming it at 86. The ACC had the #1 team and 7 of the top 25 with their lowest school of their 14 schools at 78. The best school in the WCC is Santa Clara at 77 with the other 10 schools (including BYU) ranging from 106 (Portland) to 276 (Pacific). There are 305 schools playing D1 baseball.
The best PAC school in 2023 was Stanford at #16 while UO at 28 and UW at #37 sandwiching the Beavs at #34. The Arizona schools were 51 & 52 while the LA schools were 53 & 66. Cal came it a little worse than SCU at 82 while the COugs were 93 and Utah was the worst PAC school at 144, but their one solace is their better than BYU, their future Big12 colleague at 198.
It's true that the 4 PAC schools bound for the Big 10 will have a worse conference than what they had as the Ducks had the highest RPI of the 17 schools that will play Big10 baseball next year (Wisconsin doesn't play). The 13 schools 2023 RPI had 3 at 31-36, seven between 68 and 146, and the worst 3 206-244 (Northwestern). Stanford & Cal will get an upgrade in the ACC while the Zona schools + Utah will have a wash in the Big12, although more bad teams and no top teams. It would benefit the Beavs the most if somehow they could keep a PAC baseball conference together as would a PAC Gymnastics league. I think the 4 California and 2 NW schools could be game in keepin an old PAC8. It just takes having a smart conversation and leadership to make it happen
Tell me how UO and UW did themselves any favors in baseball or softball? If playing against elite comp as you say is the goal. B10 is not elite in n either. Beavs could use UO as minor leagues with transfer portal. Parents in these sports want to see their kids play, and traveling penn state to watch a 3 game series for the weekend doesn’t seem realistic. Which is why everyone thinks these sports should be regional.
I agree it could be that way in the Big 10 but they will have to figure out an independent schedule to get the players to make those portal jumps. I just think the Beavs would benefit the most if they could keep the old PAC 8 together for baseball as they have less options than UO/UW. As for softball the PAC12 was great but the reason the Beavs decided to use the WCC because they can truly compete there and were rare NCAA tourney qualifiers in the PAC. Last year they were the bottom of the conference.
On the other hand the Big10 is not so bad in softball as Northwestern is a perennial top 10 team and has made the Series. Michigan has won National Championship. After Oklahoma and Texas go to the SEC, they will be the one dominant conference while the Big 10, ACC, & Big 12 will be similar top to bottom and the ACC and Big 10 will improve with their PAC schools.
Still my personal preference for the Beavs & PAC2 would be to pilot a PAC Baseball, Gymnastics, ,and T&F conference with the other California & NW schools and have them get an exception not to compete in their football conference in those sports. Yes it would help the travel for those 6 schools but most important it would help the PAC2 be more competitive. Then try to bring other sports that those 2 years they are competing in the WCC like cross country, softball, soccer if it can work. Hell maybe some of the schools (like Stan/Cal) might even come back for football if they don't have an ACC Grant of rights mess, OSU can either be vindicative or competitive, but probably not both. I don't want 2018 to be the last OSu National Championship.
Until you have a study to show the opposite, I'll go with what I know.
The Beavers fans I know want to prove themselves as worthy of the P4, able to continue to compete on the biggest stages possible, and beat the Ducks as often as they can.
They don't want to lower themselves to G5, refuse to play rivals, and hope that they can be an undefeated team with a weak schedule.
They want to show that they can draw eyeballs and compete, making it into the Big 12 or reforming the Pac 12 with maximum number of OoC games against P4 teams and earn it. Not take their ball and go home.
Thanks for confirming you lack any objective data that has a sample size that supports your assertion with any statistical degree of confidence. Assuming the circle you hang with holds opinions representative of a majority is pure BS.
Go ahead and go with what you perceive, just don't try and pass it off in a public forum as fact.
John, have you ever talked to any Beaver fan's? The one's like me, giving a little to OSU, hardcore fan. I've talked to many of my fellow Beaver fan's, and the one consistent message is that WE WANT NOTHING TO DO WITH THE DUCKS! You understand that by using CAPS I'm basically yelling that to you? So why in the HELL would we want to make it easy on them for non-revenue sports to allow them to join a "PAC 12" conference for only non-revenue sports? Ducks, Huskys, Cal, Stanford, etc, all decided to leave, why make it easy on them? Now if they're willing to pay to join, yeah, why not? If it's enough money. I enjoy reading what you right, even when you're wrong, hopefully the Big 10 will treat you right. I'm sure you'll be flying and not driving to away games for your duckies.
I know lots of folks who are 'real' Beaver fans and they don't feel this way at all. The whole situation is garbage, most Duck fans that I know don't like it either. Ducks and Beavs not playing any and every sport makes the world a worse place. You'd really rather cut your nose off to spite your face by being stuck playing WCC and MWC teams? Sounds fun!
Not cutting my "nose off to spite my face"....it's called having ethics, having standards. The Duck's elected to leave the Pac-12, the Pac-12 fell apart. The Ducks are getting, or will get, upwards of $50 mil per year to be in the Big 10, the Beavers will probably be lucky to clear $10m per year where ever they land. So going forward, how can the Beavers even hope to compete against the Ducks given the disparity in funding? Teams that play in the non-revenue sports can do quite well coming from what you believe to be inferior conferences, Fresno State, Coastal Carolina, Cal State Fullerton, are just some of the teams that have won the College Baseball World Series, many teams outside of "your" elitist Big 10/SEC teams have won championships, or competed for championships have come from your "minor" conferences.
But the most important thing is why reward the schools that ruined the PAC-12 by given them an easy victory (Beavers won't be funded like them, won't have the resources), while giving them the opportunity to save on travel costs by playing the Beavers? Unless the Beavers are making as much money as them, HELL NO in allowing the backstabbing defectors to have an easy way out!
You seem to think the Beavs have all the power here. For the non-revenue sports, all that needs to happen is for UW, Oregon, UCLA, and USC to band together and ask San Diego State, Fresno State, Boise State, and a few others to join them for scheduling purposes. If OSU and WSU get asked, I’m sure they’ll quickly say yes rather than continue crying over what happened with football.
Not if they are already in a conference. You’ll be the place looking for a home not them and unless you have something to provide them in the non-revenue sports (which you don’t) they won’t leave their football conference to help you out.
By themselves no, but there are about to be many more who are on the outside looking in related to football that used to be on the inside and if they were all to band together, they have considerable power and considerable inventory of events that people want to watch and the networks need to fill slots.
Ohhhhh! The ol’ “switcheroo!” Well done
You're fired!
No I'm not. I quit!
The most important thing is maintaining opportunity for those non-revenue athletes, at all schools, who had nothing to do with this situation, and that requires revenue to fund it.
The MWC has out-performed the PAC-12 in many sports head to head over the years. I don't buy the elitist mindset that the PAC-12 is a superior conference. Tulane beat USC just a year ago, Boise State in its heyday, beat the likes of Georgia, Oklahoma and Florida State. The elite mindset largely stems from USC, Stanford, Cal and Washington, who believed their institutions to be intellectually superior, when it's the same information you can glean from a public library that is being taught.
If you have ever have been a parent of a D1 student athlete and if you ask any Beaver athletes, you wouldn't come to your ridiculous conclusion. They want the most competitive situation especially in the sports outside of football. The WCC & MWC are big steps downs from what was the PAC12. I guarantee OSU & WSU will get lesser quality athletes and games if they followed your advice. It's hard for me to understand how you can be a true fan of college athletics with your view. One other thing to understand OU & UW's athletes are fine competing in the Big10 in most sports so the only one you are hurting is the Beaver athletes.
lol, you're so wrong....not meaning to be offensive. I do have kids in my family that have played D1 sports in various conferences, but not in any of your elitist conferences like the Big10/SEC. I'm a true fan of college athletics, I'm a strong believer in the regionalism that college sports used to represent. I'm sorry that I may be living in the past, but I'm conservative and really don't like the "progressive" changes that have come about in college athletics. You talk about competing and competitiveness, how do you expect a team pulling in $10m a year in revenue from football (Beavers) to compete against a team like the ducks pulling in $50m a year? Money from football goes to all the other "minor" sport teams. Not real competitive when the elitist wealthy teams (ducks) beat down on the Peoples teams like the Beavers. The ducks wanted to go their own way, good for them, so let them play other schools that are like them. The Beaver will find plenty of teams to play in our region without having to play the ducks.
The Apple deal was for $20 mil guaranteed and more according to subscriptions. Going forward according to Cauce was simply too big of a risk. Basically there are now two haves and a whole lot of have nots in college football media deals. And the disparity will grow going forward. Even the remaining Power 5 conferences are headed for extinction, it's only a matter of time.
Let them break away, sooner rather than later. I would prefer the top 32 break away, but they have to break away for everything, all sports. The narrative around creating a 32 team super football conference and then letting the rest of sports compete regionally is coming from people inside the 32, because they want their cake and eat it too. Nope... they want to control everything, I think the non 32 should stand up and control their universe against them.
For the benefit of...... ?
OK. Thanks for responding. My son competed in the Pac12 and loved it. My daughter also loved sports and wanted PAC12/D1. She got a lot more D2/D3 letters in her sports (soccer and track & field) but tried to get into the PAC12. UW was recruiting her but they only would let her come as a preferred walk on so she chose the WCC (SMC) who had a great coach. The problem was on signing day he called her and said he just got hired at Stanford (where he subsequently has won 3 NCs) so my daughter was in tears. Much like Jonathon Smith, the best athletes and coaches will leave to the top conferences. If the Beavs can create a top conference in any of their great sports (Baseball, Gymnastics, etc.) they might continue to get great athletes. If that makes them elitest than maybe we will see some more D1 National Championships here in Corvallis. I loved those Pat Casey teams as did most of us Beaver fans, That's my hope.
The things that might be an advantage in football could end up being a disadvantage in the other sports (ex..lots a away games at far away places, time away from school, mental health, ect...) I think the regional conferences will benefit from this in the “other sports” and see better players opting for these conferences. Keep in mind elite baseball players don’t want to play in the Big10, same goes for softball. If playing in the Big 2 is an advantage for football, why would the non big 2 teams want to give their potential advantage away in the other sports and let them back into a regional conference. If you broke away for football, then you have to live with the potential issues you created for the rest of sports, period. It’s all about football anyways, right.
Only if it is an advantage. The Big 10 & SEC are very strong in most sports and the addition of the 4 Pac schools & UT/Ok will only make them stronger if there is no initative by the Pac 2 to head it off. The ACC also does well in the other sports and the 3 adding will help. The travel will not be a detterent for the top athletes. The problem the Beavs have starts with baseball because the SEC & ACC were already besting the PAC12. If the Beavs don't do something. Those 2 leagues will dominate Baseball like the Big10/Sec.do for football. OSU will have to do something because baseball independence won't cut it in the long run and they already stuck their nose up at WCC baseball.
The bogus RPI Index, which favors the SEC and ACC, similar to the bogus Computer/Poll/Coaches formula favoring the BIG and SEC in football are the vehicles driving this. The entire West Coast has no control over this, but this hidden mechanism, put in place by those who control intercollegiate athletics is driving the mayhem.
You are right which is why the Beavs couldn't move to the WCC on baseball. The SEC had 8 of the top 12 in the final RPI in 2023 and the next 5 were no worse than than 46 with only Ole Miss coming it at 86. The ACC had the #1 team and 7 of the top 25 with their lowest school of their 14 schools at 78. The best school in the WCC is Santa Clara at 77 with the other 10 schools (including BYU) ranging from 106 (Portland) to 276 (Pacific). There are 305 schools playing D1 baseball.
The best PAC school in 2023 was Stanford at #16 while UO at 28 and UW at #37 sandwiching the Beavs at #34. The Arizona schools were 51 & 52 while the LA schools were 53 & 66. Cal came it a little worse than SCU at 82 while the COugs were 93 and Utah was the worst PAC school at 144, but their one solace is their better than BYU, their future Big12 colleague at 198.
It's true that the 4 PAC schools bound for the Big 10 will have a worse conference than what they had as the Ducks had the highest RPI of the 17 schools that will play Big10 baseball next year (Wisconsin doesn't play). The 13 schools 2023 RPI had 3 at 31-36, seven between 68 and 146, and the worst 3 206-244 (Northwestern). Stanford & Cal will get an upgrade in the ACC while the Zona schools + Utah will have a wash in the Big12, although more bad teams and no top teams. It would benefit the Beavs the most if somehow they could keep a PAC baseball conference together as would a PAC Gymnastics league. I think the 4 California and 2 NW schools could be game in keepin an old PAC8. It just takes having a smart conversation and leadership to make it happen
Tell me how UO and UW did themselves any favors in baseball or softball? If playing against elite comp as you say is the goal. B10 is not elite in n either. Beavs could use UO as minor leagues with transfer portal. Parents in these sports want to see their kids play, and traveling penn state to watch a 3 game series for the weekend doesn’t seem realistic. Which is why everyone thinks these sports should be regional.
I agree it could be that way in the Big 10 but they will have to figure out an independent schedule to get the players to make those portal jumps. I just think the Beavs would benefit the most if they could keep the old PAC 8 together for baseball as they have less options than UO/UW. As for softball the PAC12 was great but the reason the Beavs decided to use the WCC because they can truly compete there and were rare NCAA tourney qualifiers in the PAC. Last year they were the bottom of the conference.
On the other hand the Big10 is not so bad in softball as Northwestern is a perennial top 10 team and has made the Series. Michigan has won National Championship. After Oklahoma and Texas go to the SEC, they will be the one dominant conference while the Big 10, ACC, & Big 12 will be similar top to bottom and the ACC and Big 10 will improve with their PAC schools.
Still my personal preference for the Beavs & PAC2 would be to pilot a PAC Baseball, Gymnastics, ,and T&F conference with the other California & NW schools and have them get an exception not to compete in their football conference in those sports. Yes it would help the travel for those 6 schools but most important it would help the PAC2 be more competitive. Then try to bring other sports that those 2 years they are competing in the WCC like cross country, softball, soccer if it can work. Hell maybe some of the schools (like Stan/Cal) might even come back for football if they don't have an ACC Grant of rights mess, OSU can either be vindicative or competitive, but probably not both. I don't want 2018 to be the last OSu National Championship.
You're the vocal minority of Beaver fans.
Please provide any objective evidence to back up that assertion.
Until you have a study to show the opposite, I'll go with what I know.
The Beavers fans I know want to prove themselves as worthy of the P4, able to continue to compete on the biggest stages possible, and beat the Ducks as often as they can.
They don't want to lower themselves to G5, refuse to play rivals, and hope that they can be an undefeated team with a weak schedule.
They want to show that they can draw eyeballs and compete, making it into the Big 12 or reforming the Pac 12 with maximum number of OoC games against P4 teams and earn it. Not take their ball and go home.
Thanks for confirming you lack any objective data that has a sample size that supports your assertion with any statistical degree of confidence. Assuming the circle you hang with holds opinions representative of a majority is pure BS.
Go ahead and go with what you perceive, just don't try and pass it off in a public forum as fact.
Sounds like you equally have no data and are just a bitter, bitter man.
lol, Mathias is a duck fan, don’t they know everything? I’m wondering why duck fans are so eager to play the Beavs in all sports, why??
Exactly, 1000%.