Another great column. My father bought seafood commercially from the original Pacific Seafood store and later when they expanded to Clackamas. I knew the present owners when they were in high school and their grandfather gave my dad some of his homemade wine for the Holiday Seasons. I used to ship their Olympia oysters to my future father in law in California, while I was attending the U of O through 1967.
They have come a long way, and I still purchase products from them at their distribution point here in Sacramento. Thanks for listening, Dick Ogan, Oregon Baseball '66
WSU President Kirk Schultz commented earlier this month that they will be providing charters for men's & women's hoops teams next season. WSU selected AECOM Design consultant to decide whether to renovate existing Beasley Coliseum or construct a new facility.
Pat Chung at Wazzu is a great athletic director. He has made great hires. President Schultz needs to do everything possible to keep him, and Chung needs to keep the current crop of coaches, across the board, to stay competitive. Go Cougs!
John great column with lots of detail. My friend Steve Tseng is as straight a shooter as you will find anywhere. Very good intel - and an amazing success in the sponsorship area since Steve took over the portfolio. 😎
Gosh, I completely disagree that it is about financial investments. That may be more true for football but in basketball the forces that affect it are only getting worse. Number one is the NBA and how they play the 19 year old card using schools like Duke and others as minor leagues. I understand that they want to now lower it to 18 and with the G League it is possible that getting a great player for one year will be taken out of the equation. Plus the colleges need to play the NBA game as football (excluding OT and 1st downs) does...
However, kids do not come into college any more with team skills as they all want to be Steph Curry and you can see that in the play when you watch. Defense...forget about it. So coaches get playground players not kids who have been schooled in playing a team sport.
Then you have the NIL and transfer portal...the effects of that are that a team with a star will get him poached by the UCLA's, Dukes, and Kentucky's of the world so how do you build a good team. And if you stink like Cal why would a good player go there anymore when he still has to go to school?
Of course we still suffer from east coast bias and late night games. And what about Stanford who is now refusing to play the transfer, NIL game? That does not even include the fact that our marquee school, UCLA just bolted or that we still have no TV contract.
These issues are not going to go away John by just throwing money at them. I know those Oregon Nikes can always get a few million from Phil, but I'm sure down here the Haas, Bechtel spigot has been turned off.
Adding SDSU will be a big upgrade to Pac-12 basketball. They are close to UCLA and Arizona in BB success over the past 12 years, and equal or better than Oregon.
Man, would I love to see SDSU take down Bama? Tough sledding with the game in Louisville.
Sean Miller, a man with NCAA Teflon, has Xavier in the Sweet 16 while Tommy Lloyd lost to a 15-seed Princeton. This is the second time AZ as a 2-seed has lost to a 15-seed. In 1993, the Wildcats lost to 15-seed Santa Clara. A team that had a 'pretty good' point guard in Steve Nash. (This info courtesy of Jon Wilner.)
Jon : How soon we forget. Doesn't Altman also have some Teflon? A few years back didn't Altman have three players who got in trouble.. They got off free, so did Altman. If I am not mistaken he even played them so they could make the tournament.
They'd have to run through the PAC12 with roughly 7 or fewer losses. Maybe I'm wrong, but I don't see it. They'd be competitive - but I don't see them raising the bar.
Kliavkoff made it a point of emphasis when he was hired. Some were already trending in that direction a couple of years prior. I tweaked that graf to reflect that more clearly. But there were notable investments in football coaching, amenities and recruiting budgets by UW, OSU, UCLA, Utah in particular. USC's hire of Lincoln Riley was a big one, too.
Agreed. Great start, to be sure, but perhaps the only big investment from 2021 that paid immediate dividends was USC ponying up for Lincoln Riley, which helped them secure a ton of transfers that turned their program around in one season.
Oregon State also gave its entire coaching staff raises. Kept it together in front of last season vs. being poached. It was a movement that started two years prior though.
I think every Beavs fan exclaimed "FINALLY!!!" as they under paid coaches and programs for decades.
I do wonder how much of Anderson's walking away, with his public complaint, greased the wheels.
I know Anderson is seen as an abomination, but it would be nice to see a retrospective piece that considers the advancement Smith has had due to wake after Anderson walked.
UNLV? Do not blow the opportunity to add this program now. If streaming takes off as I expect (and hope) it will, UNLV can be had now for far less money down the road. The NFL and NHL figured out Vegas is an excellent market and it also looks like MLB is coming to Vegas and the NBA, if reasonably certain, will be in LV one day in the not-too-distant future.
I repeat if CAL and Stanford are not willing to invest in football and men's basketball at a level to be competitive in conference and nationally then also ad Fresno State along with SDS. Fresno fans give a whip and show up for the school's football and basketball games.
The Pac conference is long past the point of exercising academic arrogance.
Gonzaga has a great basketball program and a great law school. When coach Few leaves or eventuality retires Gonzaga will still have a great law school, not sure the basketball program will continue to be great.
The Bulldog athletic department will need to spend a lot of money ( which I doubt it has )and get a football program up and running before I would welcome it to the conference.
The “basketball only” membership is like joining a golf foursome but only to putt. Bring a full bag and hit all the shots.
Been reading about a (probably improbable, but who knows?) Gonzaga move to the Big 12. Gonzaga becoming part of the Pac 12 makes so much more sense. And it would certainly inject a shot of badly needed vigour into Pac 12 basketball, especially with UCLA's departure.
I am always a little puzzled when people say: "I'm not sure if UW and WSU would like to see the Zags invade their Pac-12 turf." Gonzaga has already taken over UW and WSU's turf. It is Gonzaga that refuses to play WSU. Come into the Pac Gonzaga, and see what it is like having to play a tough team every week.
Stanford’s AD gave David Shaw an incredible amount of rope … three successively awful seasons … and might’ve given him more if Shaw hadn’t finally decided he’d had enough. But Shaw also delivered multiple major bowl wins.
That’s my issue with Haase: he hasn’t made a single tourney appearance in seven seasons despite his recruiting successes. Get to the tourney and I suspect he’d get plenty of latitude. I’m not sure there’s any reason to think it’ll happen.
Cal is the team that has fallen by the wayside that you're talking about. They had to invest $320 million in remodeling their football stadium and now the academic side is picking up half the annual interest-only payments on the debt. Faculty aren't going to be pleased if they start spending even more money on athletics. They also gave teaching assistants and other campus personnel a big raise. Meanwhile, the program did OK under Ben Braun and better under Mike Montgomery but in the past it had been pretty weak, failing to beat UCLA between 1961 and 1986 no matter who the coach was.
I wonder what impact NIL has had on the basketball side (making the assumption the figures you quoted don't include NIL). From what I can see UCLA has, like, 3 6th year starters and at times look like men playing against children. NIL money surely played a role in keeping them around. And money be damned, I want Gonzaga to pound the Bruins. Say hello to Mr. Timme.
How much you spend doesn't matter if it's spent on bad coaches and bad recruiting.
truth
Another great column. My father bought seafood commercially from the original Pacific Seafood store and later when they expanded to Clackamas. I knew the present owners when they were in high school and their grandfather gave my dad some of his homemade wine for the Holiday Seasons. I used to ship their Olympia oysters to my future father in law in California, while I was attending the U of O through 1967.
They have come a long way, and I still purchase products from them at their distribution point here in Sacramento. Thanks for listening, Dick Ogan, Oregon Baseball '66
WSU President Kirk Schultz commented earlier this month that they will be providing charters for men's & women's hoops teams next season. WSU selected AECOM Design consultant to decide whether to renovate existing Beasley Coliseum or construct a new facility.
That is a huge boost.
Pat Chung at Wazzu is a great athletic director. He has made great hires. President Schultz needs to do everything possible to keep him, and Chung needs to keep the current crop of coaches, across the board, to stay competitive. Go Cougs!
And WSU's athletic department is roughly 100 million in the hole
John great column with lots of detail. My friend Steve Tseng is as straight a shooter as you will find anywhere. Very good intel - and an amazing success in the sponsorship area since Steve took over the portfolio. 😎
Tseng was very candid.
Real deal.
Gosh, I completely disagree that it is about financial investments. That may be more true for football but in basketball the forces that affect it are only getting worse. Number one is the NBA and how they play the 19 year old card using schools like Duke and others as minor leagues. I understand that they want to now lower it to 18 and with the G League it is possible that getting a great player for one year will be taken out of the equation. Plus the colleges need to play the NBA game as football (excluding OT and 1st downs) does...
However, kids do not come into college any more with team skills as they all want to be Steph Curry and you can see that in the play when you watch. Defense...forget about it. So coaches get playground players not kids who have been schooled in playing a team sport.
Then you have the NIL and transfer portal...the effects of that are that a team with a star will get him poached by the UCLA's, Dukes, and Kentucky's of the world so how do you build a good team. And if you stink like Cal why would a good player go there anymore when he still has to go to school?
Of course we still suffer from east coast bias and late night games. And what about Stanford who is now refusing to play the transfer, NIL game? That does not even include the fact that our marquee school, UCLA just bolted or that we still have no TV contract.
These issues are not going to go away John by just throwing money at them. I know those Oregon Nikes can always get a few million from Phil, but I'm sure down here the Haas, Bechtel spigot has been turned off.
The standings pretty much reflect the level of investment. There are outliers (WSU, UW), but mostly.. it went as it spent.
I just started The Signal and the Noise: Why So Many Predictions Fail--but Some Don't
by Nate Silver and it is quite possible that one could fit the data to one's bias or beliefs...hahahaha :)
Anything is possible, I suppose.
Insightful as hell John . That is what matters. Great reporting from the mouths of the dragons. Thank you.
Adding SDSU will be a big upgrade to Pac-12 basketball. They are close to UCLA and Arizona in BB success over the past 12 years, and equal or better than Oregon.
Man, would I love to see SDSU take down Bama? Tough sledding with the game in Louisville.
Sean Miller, a man with NCAA Teflon, has Xavier in the Sweet 16 while Tommy Lloyd lost to a 15-seed Princeton. This is the second time AZ as a 2-seed has lost to a 15-seed. In 1993, the Wildcats lost to 15-seed Santa Clara. A team that had a 'pretty good' point guard in Steve Nash. (This info courtesy of Jon Wilner.)
Jon : How soon we forget. Doesn't Altman also have some Teflon? A few years back didn't Altman have three players who got in trouble.. They got off free, so did Altman. If I am not mistaken he even played them so they could make the tournament.
How? They won't even make the tournament playing in the PAC12.
disagree
They'd have to run through the PAC12 with roughly 7 or fewer losses. Maybe I'm wrong, but I don't see it. They'd be competitive - but I don't see them raising the bar.
SDSU this year: 14 KenPom / 14 Net.
That's a big upgrade over the Pac-12's 3rd and 4th best teams this year:
USC: 43 KenPom / 50 Net
Oregon: 38 KenPom / 47 Net
USC squeaked in as a 10 seed and Oregon didn't make it at all.
Arizona and USC were both 14-6 in-conference, so if you think SDSU could match that playing in the PAC12 (I'm skeptical) then you're right - upgrade.
so, you don't think the Pac should have invited them? (assuming they have)
Hold on a sec, JC. You’re saying the Pac’s football improvement in 2022 was because of an investment push that began 15 months prior? Sounds fishy
Kliavkoff made it a point of emphasis when he was hired. Some were already trending in that direction a couple of years prior. I tweaked that graf to reflect that more clearly. But there were notable investments in football coaching, amenities and recruiting budgets by UW, OSU, UCLA, Utah in particular. USC's hire of Lincoln Riley was a big one, too.
Fishy!!!! Hahahahaha
Agreed. Great start, to be sure, but perhaps the only big investment from 2021 that paid immediate dividends was USC ponying up for Lincoln Riley, which helped them secure a ton of transfers that turned their program around in one season.
Oregon State also gave its entire coaching staff raises. Kept it together in front of last season vs. being poached. It was a movement that started two years prior though.
I think every Beavs fan exclaimed "FINALLY!!!" as they under paid coaches and programs for decades.
I do wonder how much of Anderson's walking away, with his public complaint, greased the wheels.
I know Anderson is seen as an abomination, but it would be nice to see a retrospective piece that considers the advancement Smith has had due to wake after Anderson walked.
Great take John, thank you.
UNLV? Do not blow the opportunity to add this program now. If streaming takes off as I expect (and hope) it will, UNLV can be had now for far less money down the road. The NFL and NHL figured out Vegas is an excellent market and it also looks like MLB is coming to Vegas and the NBA, if reasonably certain, will be in LV one day in the not-too-distant future.
I repeat if CAL and Stanford are not willing to invest in football and men's basketball at a level to be competitive in conference and nationally then also ad Fresno State along with SDS. Fresno fans give a whip and show up for the school's football and basketball games.
The Pac conference is long past the point of exercising academic arrogance.
Gonzaga has a great basketball program and a great law school. When coach Few leaves or eventuality retires Gonzaga will still have a great law school, not sure the basketball program will continue to be great.
The Bulldog athletic department will need to spend a lot of money ( which I doubt it has )and get a football program up and running before I would welcome it to the conference.
The “basketball only” membership is like joining a golf foursome but only to putt. Bring a full bag and hit all the shots.
GU's law school isn't ranked in the top 100 in the US.
Been reading about a (probably improbable, but who knows?) Gonzaga move to the Big 12. Gonzaga becoming part of the Pac 12 makes so much more sense. And it would certainly inject a shot of badly needed vigour into Pac 12 basketball, especially with UCLA's departure.
I don't think Gonzaga makes sense because of the financials... I think the Zags are likely better off right where they are.
I would love to see Gonzaga in the Pac-12, but I'm not sure if UW and WSU would like to see the Zags invade their Pac-12 turf.
I am always a little puzzled when people say: "I'm not sure if UW and WSU would like to see the Zags invade their Pac-12 turf." Gonzaga has already taken over UW and WSU's turf. It is Gonzaga that refuses to play WSU. Come into the Pac Gonzaga, and see what it is like having to play a tough team every week.
Stanford’s AD gave David Shaw an incredible amount of rope … three successively awful seasons … and might’ve given him more if Shaw hadn’t finally decided he’d had enough. But Shaw also delivered multiple major bowl wins.
That’s my issue with Haase: he hasn’t made a single tourney appearance in seven seasons despite his recruiting successes. Get to the tourney and I suspect he’d get plenty of latitude. I’m not sure there’s any reason to think it’ll happen.
Cal is the team that has fallen by the wayside that you're talking about. They had to invest $320 million in remodeling their football stadium and now the academic side is picking up half the annual interest-only payments on the debt. Faculty aren't going to be pleased if they start spending even more money on athletics. They also gave teaching assistants and other campus personnel a big raise. Meanwhile, the program did OK under Ben Braun and better under Mike Montgomery but in the past it had been pretty weak, failing to beat UCLA between 1961 and 1986 no matter who the coach was.
Great article! Very interesting.
I wonder what impact NIL has had on the basketball side (making the assumption the figures you quoted don't include NIL). From what I can see UCLA has, like, 3 6th year starters and at times look like men playing against children. NIL money surely played a role in keeping them around. And money be damned, I want Gonzaga to pound the Bruins. Say hello to Mr. Timme.