Things I don't understand- Oregon State is 45 mins from Eugene and closer to Portland, but Oregon State is the "country" school? The majority of WSU alums live around Seattle, but WSU is too "country?" Lastly, garbage Syracuse football (for example) gets credit for the New York City market but WSU/OSU have Seattle/Portland ignored?
Also, perennially terrible bottom-feeder Rutgers University is supposedly "the NY/NJ market". However, no one in New York City remotely cares about nor watches Rutgers football.
Does anyone in that market, who is not a transplant, even care about college football?? The NFL is much more popular in the Northeast. Jets/Giants versus Rutgers, Fordham or SUNY? Eagles versus anyone but Penn State who is the exception. Pats versus anyone college, even BC, in the New England area??
Oregon State was at 600,000 viewership per game on average last year, which ranked 57th, better than 3 Pac 12 teams that got into the Big 12.
I think OSU's problem (and WSU's may have been average attendance, which has been among the 2 lowest for several years.
That being said, I find it hard to believe the Beavs aren't more appealing than some of the teams the Big 12 added last year, in a virtual panic. I think that if the Pac 12 had collapsed a year ago, OSU and WSU would have been a cinch for the Big 12.
It's not just football...Why wouldn't the Big12 want OSU's baseball, softball, Women's Hoops and football footprint in their conference. I hope OSU does not go to the Big12. I hope they rebuild the PAC...I think this season tipped the iceberg and we are going to see many programs rethinking what they've done.
I do, too. I would rather see a strong regional conference in the West. The Big 12 is really a collection of second-tier programs in almost everything except men's basketball. A Pac-12 resulting from a reverse merger with the MWC would be better and more entertaining than many people give it credit for.
It just seems too coincidental that this season when the Pac12 has great teams and great games every week, ESPN and Fox--who have their chips all in on the Big 10 and SEC respectively--collude to destroy the Pac 12. Maybe I have been living in Italy too long where the science of "dietrologia" (assigning every political and cultural crisis to "hidden powers") has clouded my brain, but I can't help but thinking that this is a huge power play to keep college football dominant in the south and midwest.
Not sure its dietrologia, this collusion theory seems real and legal action by the PAC2 against Fox, ESPN, & Big 12 to look for discovery would be a good idea. How is it that providing a full Big 12 share deal and promise if a "Power 5" defected into the PAC12 when clearly no Big 10/SEC school would do it (since financially stupid) and no ACC team could do it because of their 2036 grant of rights legal protection that this was not collusion by those 3 to clearly target and disrupt the 10 remaining PAC12 schools to create instability and defections. Everything devolved once Colorado jumped and when the Big12 stopped at taking the 4 corners they knew the damage was done to the remaining 4 schools.
WSU and OSU shouldn't negotiate for a less than full deal because where they are now the Big12, Fox, & ESPN would be smart to settle by simply finally inviting WSU & OSU in at that full partnership. Legal action could force their hand and then the suit would drop.. Then the other suit could also be dismissed as the PAC12 would simply dissolve at the end of this year and the assets/liabilities would be divided amongst the 12. Big 12 would have 18 members like the Big10 , ACC would have 17, and SEC would have 16. By doing this also the Big 12 could have games in all 4 time zones just like the ACC & Big 10 can. It seems like the best move for all.
This is my belief. It appears like conspiracy to me. It was too well executed not to be. The B1G benefits when a key rival conference is destroyed. More eyeballs, more TV $$ and less competition for athletes both from HS and in the transfer portal. FOX also benefits by not having as much game production cost and (they believe) picking up West Coast eyeballs basically for nothing
Things sure seem quiet on the legal front. It seemed a court date was going to be scheduled within a couple of weeks after the initial hearing. That court date was supposed to determine who had oversight of the PAC12. What is taking so long and are there things happening behind the scenes?
I think that there's been instability led by a few teams for years. I think this instability finally caused a final break. Yes, I think USC was the most dissatisfied. But I think, Oregon, Washington, Stanford all created a rough relationship.
Seeing how Oregon is treating Pac 12 assets now, I think there's so much bad blood around
Ok. Now it makes sense. I'm not sure any will have a vote but I think the B12 bound schools w/ possible exception of CU would all support them being added. I think both Oregon. UW, & maybe UCLA would totally support them being added to the Big12. I don't think USC cares at all and I think both Stanford & Cal would be against it because it would make them look like fools for begging the ACC to take them. As i've posted below as duck season ticket holder I think the Big 12 would be stupid not to take them and to do it now.
As for your instability comments only SC was bold enought to want a bigger pie of the CFB money pool to work with Fox/B10 and bring along LA /Southern Cal market out of the PAc12 footprint. No other school including UCLA was trying to make that happen and were happy staying in the PAC12 as it was configured prior to 2022. If you have actual evidence otherwise please share.
I was not talking about the schools going to the Big 10 or ACC
But the former Pac 12 schools in the Big 12 get some say, of some kind.....you are right maybe they can't vote yet, maybe they can, but is their opinion supportive of joining them, or would they rather not?
Again I as I said I think 3 of 4 would most likely support it and CU may not since it was going back ot the Big12. I just posted above that I also think legal action by the PAC2 against the Big 12, Fox, and ESPN might actually force their hand anyways. Just a theory which I hope the 2 schools test out in court.
Chris, what is Oregon doing to Pac 12 assets? Oregon cannot do anything unilaterally that I know of, but then again, I don't always pay attention to everything going on in this situation. That's all going to be decided in litigation or via settlement and if it goes into straight litigation over a protracted period, there are probably going to be other lawsuits filed before this mess is over.
The lawsuit? The one where Scholz and Mullens are trying to use Pac 12 dollars to fund "transition costs." GK was allowing them to manipulate the Pac 12 operating agreeement and lift some of the funds.
And Ducks and Huskies in emails indicate that the know they are booted, but they are trying anyway.
It doesn't need to go to litigation, its clear as to what the agreement is. And the Ducks helped enforce this on the schools departing earlier (USC, UCLA, Colorado). This is the problem...Ducks (and others) applied one standard to the earlier schools leaving, and another to their own situation
This is why there is a TRO in place at the moment.
Ducks and Huskies are trying to pull a fast one, in cohort with GK
The whole thing is a mess and now good legal dollars have to be thrown away on this nonsense
None of this game was possible until Standord and Cal left because they never would have gotten the 85% necessary. Once they did, it created this silly black hole of an opening.
Chris, when USC and UCLA left, there were still 10 teams left in the Conference-hence it was a real Conference.
With two teams left, let's face it, the dynamic is obviously different. I wouldn't make Oregon or UW's conduct, under this scenario, all that nefarious. However, that doesn't mean OSU and WSU don't have valid points for purposes of litigation but there are very different factual issues when it is frankly obvious that the Conference may well be dead in the water.
That is a fair assessment , but the wording of the agreement is clear.
The conference still exists, and the NCAA gives them 2 years to sort it out.
That's the point. The collusion with GK goes right to the heart of integrity here. The bylaws were written for a surviving conference. They could have written them to say that they automatically liquidated when only 2 members, but they didn't
Not only the PAC12 ratings are winners, but your 36-4 is fantastic. This is special considering we had 3 PAC12 ranked on ranked games, which has to be the 1st time ever in the PAC which you had 2 of those games right. This conference has been amazing in their last year and still have 6 ranked teams in the AP top 20 for the 2nd week in a row and 4 in the top 10 for the 1st time ever. And the next two, Colorado and UCLA, are 29th and 30th overall when you add the other teams receiving AP votes. I wish this nightmare would end and go back to keep the PAC we all love.
Still with an eye to next year given the die has been cast, here are the PAC records base on future conference allegiance and against all conferences as we enter Week #4:
Big 10/4 Pac teams 15-1, AP ranks #7, 8, 9, 30; 4-1 vs P12 schools; B10 competition vs 0-3 vs P12 (Losses Wisconsin/Nebraska/MSU)
Big 12/4 Pac teams 11-5, AP ranks #10, 29; 2-2 vs P12 schools; B12 competition 1-3 vs P12 (Win OkSt, Losses TCU,/TTU,/Baylor)
ACC/2 Pac teams 3-5, Neither ranked, 0-3 vs P12 schools, no ACC competition against P12 yet
PAC 2 (OSU/WSU) 7-1. AP ranks #16, 19; 1-1 vs P12 schools;
SEC 2-1 against P12 schools (Wins MissSt, Auburn; Loss Florida)
MWC 1-10 against P12 schools (One win Fresno)
Other Go5 FBS schools 0-4 against P12
FCS schools 1-8 against P12 (One win Sacramento State)
Week #5 the PAC2 starts it campaign on the field against the rest of the PAC12 with OSU taking on future Big 12 team & top 10 ranked Utah at home on Friday while WSU has a bye. The future Big10 teams have two against B12/Pac teams (SC at CU & UW at UA) while Oregon goes to ACC/Pac Stanford and UCLA has a bye. The other future ACC team will also try to get their 1st PAC win as they host Big 12 bound ASU.
Dan Lanning is a coach's coach. He spoke to his players, and in doing so captured the feelings of virtually every major college coach about the carnival in Boulder.
Lanning's speech also gave those coaches a valuable asset to fire up their own stakeholders, whom they are asking to pony up even more NIL cash to insulate their rosters from a raid by Colorado. It's working, too, at least from my limited sample.
No one is going to lay down and make it easy for the clown show. I don't doubt that every DC in the MAC was happy to provide notes on how Sean Lewis calls plays. It's only going to get tougher from here how that there's live film to work from. While I think 5-7 is likely I wouldn't bet on it.
Clown Show? Joe are you racist? Everyone is watching Deion and Colorado? Highest rated game of the week? It sure as hell wasn’t rated that high because of Dan Lanning who almost no one would recognize in their supermarket. Let’s see Lanning rebuild Colorado? You think he’s going into black homes and recruiting better than Deion? No way. Just cause you don’t like his flash? A lot of people love it. Prime has been a winner and an amazing athlete no one can deny that. Give the man credit and not hate just because he Carrie’s himself different than the vanilla you are used too. Disappointed you liked his comment John Canzano smh.
When the talk doesn't match the actions, it's called a clown show.
Deon loves to talk how he's old school, but there is nothing old school getting rid of 80+ players... Old school is coaching up players and letting others go that don't fit... Not bragging about that his new players are Louis Vuitton, as if the others are below him, before he even met them.
This hypocrisy, mixed with his desire to be the center of the show rubs many of us the wrong way... That you even insinuate that it has anything to do with race says something more about you than Joe
Mike Elko took David Cutcliffe's undersized batch of 2 stars, won 9 games in year one, and Duke just played Notre Dame to the wire in a top 20 matchup. We do not have to accept Colorado as the new norm, or celebrate what Sanders is doing. There is another way, it's just more demanding.
You can hide it however you want John but it’s blatantly obvious. He’s paid to win and obviously those 80 players weren’t winning. You’re ridiculous to hide behind your hate by calling Prime out for the same actions Saban or even that nobody in Eugene, Manning? Is that his name? Your old and prolly still driving a Buick. Prime is going to change coaching and he will load up the talent. You see he already had the number one QB out of the 25 class? You’re gonna have a lot more hating to do cause he’s not going away and I’m sorry you’re not in the majority, the polls, the ratings and the $$$ are all flowing because of Prime. Why don’t you invite me over to watch a game? I’d love to see the worn Lazy Boy recliner and green shag carpet. Change is a good thing and “ It’s Coming “.
I find it funny, you are older than me, calling me old lol
And I drive multiple cars, one is a 68 Pontiac that is heavily customized with a 455... Will smoke anything you drive.
But onto an actual response, Deon is a clown show... You don't like it, you don't have to... And no other coach has eviscerated at team so deeply.
I find it funny, you probably get excited by Deons speeches of being old school, and then state I need to stop living in the past... Which is not the problem... Want to see model coaches... Just take a gander in Corvallis, Salt Lake City, Pullman, Seattle ... And I'll admit, as much as I hate admitting it, Eugene.
And.....there it is. Didn't take long for someone to play race. Please tell me what Joe said that suggested, implied, or inferred that he is racist. Is it because he called Deion's act a clown show and Deion happens to be black? If that's your reasoning, any time anyone disagrees with what someone of a different race says or does, that makes them racist? Look in the mirror, dude.
And another big mouth that’s anonymous😂. A lot of Beta Males in here. I changed my real face and real name just to piss off the racism in here but I’ll change it back. I’m not a coward that hides behind fake names and no pictures. So lame. And you’re a Beaver fan? So Am I. Thought Beavers were better people. Oh and send me pics of you and your black personal friends?
It’s underlying, he’s got nothing negative to say about any white coaches does he. I have multiple black personal friends, pm I’ll send you photos of me with them JA, if you want to know JA stands for also pm me. If you think racism in America is open and upfront I promise you, info from black friends themselves it’s lowkey and disguised. If Deion actually was a bad dude, a bad example, a thief, a rapist, anything at all that’s factual go ahead and state it. When you dislike someone for they way they look, sound and carry themselves because it’s different from you. That’s subtle racism. I do look in the mirror hoss and I LOVE what I see. Do you?
Let's analyze this. Joe says something positive about Dan Lanning, who is white. He calls the program in Boulder a carnival. Your response is "he has nothing negative to say about white coaches." Therefore, he must be racist. That is a very large leap you made from a difference of opinion to racism. I understand there are undertones of racism all over this country. But you are so hypervigilant trying to find racism, you think you are uncovering it where it does not exist. You say Joe "dislikes" Prime and if you dislike someone who doesn't look or act like you it is racist. The only problem is, he never implied, suggested or inferred that he dislikes Prime. Only that he thinks Prime has created a carnival. So take a breath, read posts carefully, and stop trying to see things that aren't there.
Zero consideration for the possibility that I might be, you know.....Black.
Sanders exploited an HBCU that he never would have given the time of day until it was clear he was unhirable at the FBS level, and he needed JSU as a stepping stone. When he built his Colorado staff, he hired two white coordinators and overlooked dozens of quality deserving Black coaches. He expertly exploits white media afraid of guys like the one crying race here, and fearful of losing access.
So, yeah, there are lots of reasons to take issue with Colorado, and how it's portrayed.
Yikes...Sanders takes a horrible program instantly to the national center stage by hiring top assistants, recruiting better players, wins 3 of his first 4 games, gets them into the top 25, and garners excitement throughout the student body, and you vilify him for that? Odd...I've been watching CFB for over fifty years and not seen a turnaround like this in maybe...ever?
P5 players trash? No, he never said that. He still has some of those kids on roster. Takes 85 scholies--he brought in 67. No one lost a scholarship if they wanted to continue education at Colorado. Their choice.
Good coaches develop?
You told me all I need to know about your coaching knowledge and experience.
Smith, DeBoer, Dickert, Whittingham, etc coached up the players they had on roster, let some go. So let them speak with their teams rather than my coaching experience.
So all those coaches you mentioned "let some go?" Then what's different in principle about what Deion did? Nothing. In number, yes, because of the dumpster fire he inherited. You seem to be under the impression a scholarship equates to a guaranteed spot on the team until you graduate. It doesn't...anywhere. The HC makes those calls because he's accountable for winning, not running a Fall football camp. Besides, why don't you focus on the 67 kids who wanted to play for him--not the ones he dismissed? It's unprecedented, I get it, but the transfer portal is a tool there for the taking, and charismatic coaches like Deion are going to use it. It's part of the game now--so what's the issue?
Your stance is one of entertainment sports, like professional sports. Anyone who was a student athlete in college will disagree with you. When you commit to a school, there is a similar commitment from them. No it is not guaranteed, and you have to prove yourself. If you lose a scholarship of your own issues or inability to compete.. That is just part of the agreement. What is a betrayal of that commitment is when someone comes in and judges you, sight unseen and releases regardless of your personal performance.
I know Deon said he allowed them to compete... But other words like bringing in expensive luggage signals the direct opposite.
Schools have athletic departments, not the other way around. Students are athletes, not the other way around. The commitment is not just to playing on the feild but also to and from the school itself... But this race for media dollars has the casual fan calling the shots and that is the real problem
Unfortunately, the smaller footprint of the Pac 12 network and the dismal performances of football teams on the national stage for the last several years depressed the viewership and interest at the same time the media deals were in play. Not to mention that the conference basically shut down during Covid when everyone else was playing. This year is too little, too late. It's sad.
Since confession is good for the soul, here's mine: I had Oregon winning, but in a close game. I posted that several times/places. Flat out wrong. I'm done predicting spreads. Finished. It's a fool's game. I don't have a clue what I'm doing predicting spreads.
This column has some great details on TV viewership, media rights and more. It takes me back to your last column about Oregon State and Washington State improving their "brand" and why are they getting left behind?
Here's an idea on how to improve your brand: start winning. Consistently. Funny how that solves a lot of problems. Whining and complaining about "getting left behind" and "why isn't our brand better" and "it isn't fair" are reminiscent of crying when you lose and accusing your opponents of piling it on and rolling up the score. You don't like it when someone piles up points? Then stop it. Stop your opponent from scoring. Score a few points yourself. You're in charge of you. Nobody's going to help you fix your "brand". Nobody. It's not their job, it's yours. OSU and WSU: you are good this year and making a strong case for being a Power 5 conference member. Stop bawling like spoiled babies. It's demeaning and you're doing it to yourselves. Have some self-respect and get to work on winning. You'll be a lot happier with yourselves when it happens consistently.
Start winning to improve your brand? I agree. However, are you going to tell me that Virginia, Iowa State, Kansas, Vanderbilt, Missouri, Indiana, Northwestern etc. etc. etc. are still Power 5 because of their "brand"? Those teams have done nothing of more substance than OSU and WSU, so yes, fans of those schools have every right to throw a fit. And no one is "bawling like a spoiled baby." Get a grip and get over yourself.
WSU and OSU fans can "throw a fit" all they want. I'll wait while you post a response explaining the virtues of "throwing a fit". Jeopardy music playing right about here until I get your answer.
Your option, of course, is to stop sucking your thumb and get behind your team and behind the two AD's and presidents that are working their heinies off trying to keep their respective universities from being relegated. Root for the Beavs to kick some butt...write a letter or two to the dudes in charge at OSU (and/or WSU) giving them your support. Do something positive and constructive. Or...you can always do what a large portion of our society does today - portray yourself as an aggrieved victim. The choice is yours.
Of course they can throw a fit. If the roles were reversed and this happened to your beloved Duckies, you would have a moment of anger and rage as well, and if you say you wouldn't, you are a liar. You described Beaver fans as "bawling like a spoiled baby" and now you say they are "sucking their thumb" and "acting like an aggrieved victim." No Beaver fan I know is doing any of that. "Throwing a fit" implies being pissed off and angry, then getting over it. More than one thing can be true at once. Someone can be upset then do all the constructive things that you list to try to make things better. That's what I'm doing an what many fans that I am aware of are doing. So like I said before, get over yourself and your overwrought, immature arrogant portrayal of how you perceive Beavs and Cougs are acting. And what's with the jeopardy music reference? You think you made such a brilliant point that I would be hesitant to respond? Typical Duck arrogance.
I'm glad you're doing what you wrote - something constructive and productive, as opposed to playing the victim role. I agree and support much of what you wrote, although, as usual, you misrepresented important pieces of what I posted. I said "some" Beaver and Cougs fans, not all - not even a majority - are behaving like spoiled children. You disagree with that? Most are ticked, as you said, initially - I don't blame them - I don't blame them for being furious at Oregon and John Karl Scholz, the new village idiot the university hired for president - who drove in the final dagger that obliterated the conference. But pick yourself up, man, and get moving. Do something besides whine. In fact, I'm pleasantly surprised - you've said you are doing something constructive, so it sounds like you agree with me - wallowing in aggrievement is a bad idea.
As for you saying I'm "overwrought, immature and arrogant", I don't give a rip. Call me whatever you want...we're two guys sitting behind a keyboard probably thousands of miles apart that have no clue who the other is - have never met and never will. So, keyboard bravado is fine with me - I can be reasonable (my preference) and actually refrain from personalizing every post or be more similar to you - the choice is yours.
Well, let's be real. When you use comments like "bawling like babies", and "sucking thumbs", I don't need to hide behind keyboard bravado to make a factual statement that your wording is overwrought and immature. I didn't say you were, I said your wording is. Read carefully. And until you corrected yourself in your last post, "arrogant" made sense too, as your implication was, as a Duck fan, you would have just rolled up your sleeves and handled things more maturely than the Beavs and Cougs did. And speaking of reading carefully, I re-read your post and you did not say "some" fans are acting that way. Your implication was that they all were. I guess one more thing, since you accused me of "personalizing every post." That's exactly what you did when you said you were "surprised" I was actually doing something instead of sitting around whining. Don't act like you know me. I guess we should call a truce, because you make it really easy for me to poke holes all over your arguments. And I have stuff to do.
Settle down, SC...whether you know it or not, your words are proving my point. Somebody turn you down for a prom date? You sound like a cranky "get off my lawn" old mossback. But, please, you feel free to call me whatever you want - it's hilarious, particularly when you feign you're above it all.
Oh, "we should call a truce"? Really? I didn't realize we were at war - that kinda belies your notion that you're completely under control, doesn't it? Final point: I did say in more than one post over multiple recent columns that the WSU and OSU whiners were in the minority - it's not my problem you have reading comprehension issues. Nor do I feel like spending much more time and oxygen on the point (unless you must) since the two options for you remain: be a bedwetting thumb-sucker blaming everyone else for your predicament...or get to work on productive and constructive actions that turn your teams into consistent winners who are in great demand. I know what route I would choose, but the choice is yours.
I went to the game and had a blast, but having seen my first Oregon game in the mid-70's, I am old enough to be hard wired with two plus decades of Oregon football that was often not too fun to watch. The script really flipped in 1994, but my weariness is still there.
I wasn't surprised by Oregon's offensive performance-it was the defensive domination that just stunned me.
Glad you enjoyed it. Crowds of 60,000 or more who have been drinking for 3 hours isn't always ideal, but if you're a Ducks fan that game was memorable in more ways than one.
As for memorable, beating an overmatched team cannot, long term, be described as memorable, but the game was fun.
Memorable would be Ty of BYU screaming at the crowd that his team was coming back, or Rich Brooks winning a big one against USC, or actually seeing the pick in 94 against UW, after listening to their fans sing that god damned Tequila song for the 30th time and then watching them shut the hell up. Michigan was fun. There are many others. Interestingly, even that tie against a mediocre Notre Dame team was memorable as were ties against USC in a year UO went 6-2-2 ( a record the Register Guard described as zany) and the tie against OSU (in the toilet bowl). It's funny what stands out.
Yeah, your definition of "memorable" is better than mine. Those games you mentioned are much more memorable. I will say, however, Lanning's pregame speech was friggin' memorable...absolutely epic.
Well said, RR. I'd only add that though we've all suffered sadness at seeing the Pac-12 die and our traditions with it, the grinding away at finding a conspirator, someone to blame, making enemies, demanding legal retribution, Gov't intervention, sanctimonious platitudes, etc., etc., not only wears thin but denies the reality that life isn't a level playing field. Sports sometimes gives us that illusion, but really, you make your own place on that field. The schools in the Pac-12 never were truly equal and it took an unfortunate media event to shake that out. You're right, RR, now that all the schools know the landscape, like it or not, it's up to them to respond. We use to call that "self-reliance" in America.
Your comments along with those of the”Real Rich” reek of arrogance and sheer ignorance. Let me explain this in terms you might better grasp. Pretend you are a paying passenger (PAC-12 schools) on the Titanic (PAC 12). Through clandestine and outrageous collusion with the ships crew (media moguls) and a cabal
of nefarious passengers (Pac 12 turncoats and backstabbers) steer the ship into the abyss. Of course, prior to the orchestrated catastrophe, lifeboats (B1G, ACC, and BiG 12) for all of the cabal members were carefully placed and easily accessed for the colluders. Once the Good Ship PAC sank, the rest of the passengers (PAC employees) and two remaining passengers (WSU and OSU) were cast adrift. Calls for help were answered by condescending and duplicitous claims of regret snd remorse from the lifeboats. The plans by the backstabbers were then put in place to strip the good ship of its stores and valuables, to cover the costs incurred by the colluders as they guided their lifeboats to safety.
The behavior of the deserters is disgusting and immoral, if not illegal. Pardon the two cast adrift if there is seething anger and hopes for retribution directed to the lifeboats and those aboard the lifeboats.
Ha! Wow, quite a fairy tale, Jim T. You seem like an educated guy--you actually believe that's why OSU and WSU were "cast adrift?" Because of some secret cabal to take them down?!? Not because they each have the lowest value? Not because neither got invited anywhere else? OK, you don't. So the next question is would the two "victims" have accepted an invitation to leave like the others if offered? To maintain your allegory, I guess you have to answer: "No, they would've pushed the lifeboat away and drown like faithful martyrs!" Tragedy, indeed.
Sheezus, lordie! Mr. T dove deep for that little beauty. Must have been real cathartic. I just checked Amazon to see if they had any good deals on baby nipples...glad to order them in bulk for the bedwetters.
Ooooohhhh...poor little babies (WSU and OSU fan)...let me pass you a hankie while I try to regain my composure.
Nice little fairytale.
Here's a hard fact of life...including life in every Power 5 football conference. Each school's program is responsible for their brand. It's not the responsibility of the other ten members of the Pac-12 to put training wheels on OSU and WSU year after year. You should be rallying behind the two AD's and presidents, not curling up in the closet in fetal position sucking your thumb and crying we were treated "unfairly".
Beat somebody. Do it again and again. Get a top ten recruiting class. Win. If you do it consistently, you'll get recognized, you'll have an admired brand and you'll enjoy life and stop acting like an aggrieved victim.
Scott, sports is the ultimate meritocracy. If you can play and win, you will play. Sports has led the way in putting those on the field that were the best players, regardless of color, background, etc., sports has very often led the way. I sense the two AD's and presidents of WSU and OSU are going to fight like hell as opposed to the whining and bellyaching about "unfairness" from many of their fans. I like what I'm learning about the strategy of these two universities - they need to continue to get on with it, including putting a winning team on the field year after year. I hope more of their fans will support those actions as opposed to sticking out their lower lips and claiming their "brand" has been treated unfairly.
I'm no expert and it shows...I'm done betting on the spread - finished, kaput, terminated, a wrap. It's taken a while but I've finally come to my senses in that area.
The Big Ten should consider Oregon state & Washington state because they would be perfect partner schools to Oregon and Washington for travel, especially for basketball and some of the other Olympic sports.
True that but if the Big 10 would add the PAC 2 then they could create a western division to minimize travel. The division would happen to be the top 6 current football teams in the old PAC 12.
It's not happening. OSU and WSU IMO are deserving but are not AAU member schools. Had Nebraska not been an AAU member school at the time of the B1G invite it never would have received the invite.
Interesting note and undoubtedly true as I believe all Big Ten schools are AAU members. I was surprised to note, however, that before adding Cal and Stanford only half of ACC members were AAU (not much help to Beavers or Cougs, just interesting given ACC p r )
I read somewhere that Cal and Stanford going to the ACC would make it more likely that the Big-12 eventually picks up WSU and OSU. Wouldn't surprise me if the Big-12 is waiting for more clarity from the courts regarding the Pac-12 assets.
There is a deal to be made with the Big 12 if WSU and OSU are pragmatic, like Cal and Stanford were with the ACC, and offer to take a reduced revenue share for several years.
Can't let pride get in the way of a deal, when the only alternative is the MWC. Can't say, "We will only take a full share because Colorado has a full share and we're better than them" or "We demand a full share because our TV ratings are better than almost everyone in your conference". The Big 12 doesn't have to invite anyone. They have the leverage.
I wonder what Coach Lanning will say to his team in the pre-game speech? The scenarios are pretty much the opposite of last week.
- Not a national audience (Pac-12 network)
- Not a national story and an inferior team (Stanford)
Yet, it is Stanford and it is a road game. We all know what happened in years past when playing Stanford, where the Ducks should have won but didn't. I want to see them play with the same intensity and consistency 2 weeks in a row!
C'mon, Real; it was Indians back in the day, the cheerleader outfits with the single feather headband and the moccasin footwear with no sox were the sexiest in Christendom; but when PC took over, they became the Cardinal (royal color not bird) and the Tree became the prominent feature of support, when the band was not on suspension of course.Just sayin' Charlie
Those were the days, Charlie. Jumpin' Joe Francis, John Witte and Nub Beamer going to the Farm and taking on John Brodie and the Indians...with all those feather headbands and moccasin footwear cheerleaders rooting them on. Ahhhh...nothing like the single-wing for a little deception play.
Interesting factoid that you may know - after changing the name from Indians to Cardinals, a Harvard academician was hired to be president of Stanford. He, personally, with no input from colleagues or students, changed the name again from Cardinals to Cardinal. He loved Harvard's C4rimson nickname and - like a ton of east coast snobs - thought he was going to enhance Stanford with that name change. Unfortunately, that's where it is today.
Well played Real Rich; what a lovely and informative response, and I learned finally how the name change developed. We saw more of the Elway - Puckett era, but followed John Brodie with the 49ERs and then golf (when he informed his wife he was going to play on the tour, she responded: "My God, John, you are going to live your whole life without working a day of it!"). I was not aware of the interim change in Cardinal. I was, and still am, in love with the Leland Stanford Junior Marching Band( I attended a USC game in the 80s with two highlights: when USC Trojan band marched on the field, the welcoming yell was "Big Rubber Band", and then the Stanford band marched on with hat, tie, blazer, and surfing jams, led by their seven foot bandleader in a full wetsuit!-wonderful times). Thanks for your kind letter, offsetting fouls, repeat second down. Best, Charlie
Great stuff, Charlie. What a fantastic story about Brodie's wife! She had it right! Love the "Big Rubber Band" welcoming yell and I did not know about that. I'm saddened about the probable end of that great Stanford/USC rivalry...I'll never forget Pete Carroll and Jim Harbaugh exchanging "what's your deal?"
Well played, Charlie - another first down and ten. - Rich.
Why keep a Ferrari parked in the garage. I like John’s idea of seeing a few pre-determine series from Chiles. With NIL and the transfer portal there’s no guarantee this kid will stick around forever.
That broadcast from Autzen for a single game was the 1st time this year that a CFB game had over 10M viewers. I am glad so many people watched how good Oregon is, but I think the Deion affect was the most significant since CU has been #1 or #2 in CFB ratings all 4 weeks they've had games. My guess that will happen again next week with SC in Boulder.
As an Oregon homer, I agree. That game would likely have generated about 2 to 3 million views.
I have zero problem with Deion. You don't accomplish what he has done as a football player or coach without hard work and smarts. His outsized personality is just part of the package and is a real positive.
I agree with Phil Knight's assessment of what Deion has done for college football.
How about reaching out to Big 12 folks and seeing what they think of the numbers? If they add pacific coast teams there's interest from the pacific coast in their games. If not, who here watches?
As a question are the former Pac 12 teams in the Big 12 in OSU/WSU's corner? Or against them?
Good question. I would think given the options that WSU/OSU have the Big12 should be worried. CBS sports just rated the PAC12 as the #1 conference in the country and the Big 12 is #5 and that is with SEC bound Texas and OU as their top 2 teams. OSU and WSU are both ranked better than any future Big 16 team they will have next year, And just as important, the MWC which clearly wants to work with the PAC2 is rated the 6th best conference,
The B12's four new additions this year are looking awfully wobbly at the moment.
I know the UCF roster is decimated by injuries, and BYU is what it is and will figure things out over time, but Houston and Cincinnati both seem to have deeper issues.
The Texas market that Yormark has built the entire strategy around is getting awfully crowded, too, evident in how rapidly Baylor has declined from its Rhule-era perch.
I am going to take heat for saying it, but...TRUTH NUGGETS
The Big12 made a huge mistake jumping in with those 4 schools.
- UCF and Cincinnati are in sort of the same boat. They don't really deserve to be promote. They lack player talent depth and coaching stability. Worse, they will never move the needle if their respective markets/area football wise.
- BYU is perennially mediocre. BYU fans won't admit it but even when they were winning 10+ games a season, it was against not so great competition. They do have the potential to turn it around with improved cashflow.
- Houston (best addition in the lot) could be good. But they have the wrong coach.
Imagine if the future additions for the big 12 were Colorado, Utah, BYU, Houston, Arizona, ASU. OSU & WSU???
It's no accident Luke Fickell left Cincinnati when he did, rather than waiting for Ohio State or Michigan to open up. He saw the writing on the wall.
Most B12 schools look at OSU/WSU and see another Kansas State: a place that's expensive and time-consuming to get to, and a team that will always outperform their talent. They may not hit their ceiling annually, but they can ruin your special season even when they're having an off year.
Jon, my guess is every conference left other than the SEC wanted Oregon, in the end. Cincinnati and BYU were only added to the Big 12 out of desperation, when UT and Oklahoma cut the cord. They weren't an appealing target, just the best, maybe, of a bunch of teams no Power 5 Conference would have taken otherwise.
Frankly, had the Pac collapsed last year, I think OSU and WSU would have been easily selected by the Big 12 before those two schools.
As for Oregon, Oregon's done nothing wrong here, except not be stupid and the Apple deal was stupid, no matter how John (whom I respect) tries to spin it.
So what? Any team can have a good year. UCF claims a 2017 natty. How did BYU only win 1 playing in the WAC??? Answer...Edwards lost alot of non conf. Games.
My point is OSU & WSU are better fits than UC and UcF.
Agree. To me the smart move is to add the PAC2 now and get 2 Pacific time zone teams which at least matches the ACC who right now is the only conference they need to compete with. If not the MWC/PAC2 partnersip could definitely become its equal or even pass them. I guess the BIg12 is salivating over CU & Deion next year, but they lose that when Prime leaves which could be soon.
TBD how long Sanders stays in Boulder, but it's virtually certain Sean Lewis will be gone by mid December. I'm sure another offensive coach will seek out the job for the same reason Lewis did, but changing systems between year one and two is a damper on momentum. Lewis will presumably take his OL coach with him when he goes, too.
I'd take the under, assuming the bloom isn't off the rose and he can find a taker who can put more cash on the table, rather than promising they can raise it. All outcomes remain on the table.
Things I don't understand- Oregon State is 45 mins from Eugene and closer to Portland, but Oregon State is the "country" school? The majority of WSU alums live around Seattle, but WSU is too "country?" Lastly, garbage Syracuse football (for example) gets credit for the New York City market but WSU/OSU have Seattle/Portland ignored?
Also, perennially terrible bottom-feeder Rutgers University is supposedly "the NY/NJ market". However, no one in New York City remotely cares about nor watches Rutgers football.
Great comment!
Does anyone in that market, who is not a transplant, even care about college football?? The NFL is much more popular in the Northeast. Jets/Giants versus Rutgers, Fordham or SUNY? Eagles versus anyone but Penn State who is the exception. Pats versus anyone college, even BC, in the New England area??
I agree, and substitute SDSU for Rutgers.......
Yes! I think market size is meaningless these days. It’s all about actual viewership numbers, and both WSU and OSU do well in those.
Oregon State was at 600,000 viewership per game on average last year, which ranked 57th, better than 3 Pac 12 teams that got into the Big 12.
I think OSU's problem (and WSU's may have been average attendance, which has been among the 2 lowest for several years.
That being said, I find it hard to believe the Beavs aren't more appealing than some of the teams the Big 12 added last year, in a virtual panic. I think that if the Pac 12 had collapsed a year ago, OSU and WSU would have been a cinch for the Big 12.
You have to keep in mind the Gary Andersen mess destroyed this program.
No question-it was a nightmare and Smith is an outstanding coach. In the end, this was horrendously bad luck.
It's not just football...Why wouldn't the Big12 want OSU's baseball, softball, Women's Hoops and football footprint in their conference. I hope OSU does not go to the Big12. I hope they rebuild the PAC...I think this season tipped the iceberg and we are going to see many programs rethinking what they've done.
I do, too. I would rather see a strong regional conference in the West. The Big 12 is really a collection of second-tier programs in almost everything except men's basketball. A Pac-12 resulting from a reverse merger with the MWC would be better and more entertaining than many people give it credit for.
It just seems too coincidental that this season when the Pac12 has great teams and great games every week, ESPN and Fox--who have their chips all in on the Big 10 and SEC respectively--collude to destroy the Pac 12. Maybe I have been living in Italy too long where the science of "dietrologia" (assigning every political and cultural crisis to "hidden powers") has clouded my brain, but I can't help but thinking that this is a huge power play to keep college football dominant in the south and midwest.
Not sure its dietrologia, this collusion theory seems real and legal action by the PAC2 against Fox, ESPN, & Big 12 to look for discovery would be a good idea. How is it that providing a full Big 12 share deal and promise if a "Power 5" defected into the PAC12 when clearly no Big 10/SEC school would do it (since financially stupid) and no ACC team could do it because of their 2036 grant of rights legal protection that this was not collusion by those 3 to clearly target and disrupt the 10 remaining PAC12 schools to create instability and defections. Everything devolved once Colorado jumped and when the Big12 stopped at taking the 4 corners they knew the damage was done to the remaining 4 schools.
WSU and OSU shouldn't negotiate for a less than full deal because where they are now the Big12, Fox, & ESPN would be smart to settle by simply finally inviting WSU & OSU in at that full partnership. Legal action could force their hand and then the suit would drop.. Then the other suit could also be dismissed as the PAC12 would simply dissolve at the end of this year and the assets/liabilities would be divided amongst the 12. Big 12 would have 18 members like the Big10 , ACC would have 17, and SEC would have 16. By doing this also the Big 12 could have games in all 4 time zones just like the ACC & Big 10 can. It seems like the best move for all.
This is my belief. It appears like conspiracy to me. It was too well executed not to be. The B1G benefits when a key rival conference is destroyed. More eyeballs, more TV $$ and less competition for athletes both from HS and in the transfer portal. FOX also benefits by not having as much game production cost and (they believe) picking up West Coast eyeballs basically for nothing
Things sure seem quiet on the legal front. It seemed a court date was going to be scheduled within a couple of weeks after the initial hearing. That court date was supposed to determine who had oversight of the PAC12. What is taking so long and are there things happening behind the scenes?
Things take a brief period. It has only been 2 weeks since the injunction.
maybe settlement talks?
I think that there's been instability led by a few teams for years. I think this instability finally caused a final break. Yes, I think USC was the most dissatisfied. But I think, Oregon, Washington, Stanford all created a rough relationship.
Seeing how Oregon is treating Pac 12 assets now, I think there's so much bad blood around
Can you explain that last sentence?
My last sentence?
The Pac 12 schools in the Big 12 next year, are they for or against OSU/WSU joining the Big 12? I don't know what you mean by that?
Are your former conference mates going to bat for you in the Big 12, or are they impeding any Big 12 discussion?
Ok. Now it makes sense. I'm not sure any will have a vote but I think the B12 bound schools w/ possible exception of CU would all support them being added. I think both Oregon. UW, & maybe UCLA would totally support them being added to the Big12. I don't think USC cares at all and I think both Stanford & Cal would be against it because it would make them look like fools for begging the ACC to take them. As i've posted below as duck season ticket holder I think the Big 12 would be stupid not to take them and to do it now.
As for your instability comments only SC was bold enought to want a bigger pie of the CFB money pool to work with Fox/B10 and bring along LA /Southern Cal market out of the PAc12 footprint. No other school including UCLA was trying to make that happen and were happy staying in the PAC12 as it was configured prior to 2022. If you have actual evidence otherwise please share.
I was not talking about the schools going to the Big 10 or ACC
But the former Pac 12 schools in the Big 12 get some say, of some kind.....you are right maybe they can't vote yet, maybe they can, but is their opinion supportive of joining them, or would they rather not?
Again I as I said I think 3 of 4 would most likely support it and CU may not since it was going back ot the Big12. I just posted above that I also think legal action by the PAC2 against the Big 12, Fox, and ESPN might actually force their hand anyways. Just a theory which I hope the 2 schools test out in court.
Chris, how does Oregon have any say regarding OSU being added to the Big 12?
I never said anything about Oregon. I said the former Pac 12 teams in the Big 12. Are they supporting OSU to the Big 12, or impeeding it?
Chris, thanks for clarifying.
Chris, what is Oregon doing to Pac 12 assets? Oregon cannot do anything unilaterally that I know of, but then again, I don't always pay attention to everything going on in this situation. That's all going to be decided in litigation or via settlement and if it goes into straight litigation over a protracted period, there are probably going to be other lawsuits filed before this mess is over.
The lawsuit? The one where Scholz and Mullens are trying to use Pac 12 dollars to fund "transition costs." GK was allowing them to manipulate the Pac 12 operating agreeement and lift some of the funds.
And Ducks and Huskies in emails indicate that the know they are booted, but they are trying anyway.
It doesn't need to go to litigation, its clear as to what the agreement is. And the Ducks helped enforce this on the schools departing earlier (USC, UCLA, Colorado). This is the problem...Ducks (and others) applied one standard to the earlier schools leaving, and another to their own situation
This is why there is a TRO in place at the moment.
Ducks and Huskies are trying to pull a fast one, in cohort with GK
The whole thing is a mess and now good legal dollars have to be thrown away on this nonsense
None of this game was possible until Standord and Cal left because they never would have gotten the 85% necessary. Once they did, it created this silly black hole of an opening.
It probably won't happen, but how I wish that this would end up at least going to trial. Then, the whole sleazy story will be made public.
Chris, when USC and UCLA left, there were still 10 teams left in the Conference-hence it was a real Conference.
With two teams left, let's face it, the dynamic is obviously different. I wouldn't make Oregon or UW's conduct, under this scenario, all that nefarious. However, that doesn't mean OSU and WSU don't have valid points for purposes of litigation but there are very different factual issues when it is frankly obvious that the Conference may well be dead in the water.
I respect your point, though.
That is a fair assessment , but the wording of the agreement is clear.
The conference still exists, and the NCAA gives them 2 years to sort it out.
That's the point. The collusion with GK goes right to the heart of integrity here. The bylaws were written for a surviving conference. They could have written them to say that they automatically liquidated when only 2 members, but they didn't
Hence the TRO
Not only the PAC12 ratings are winners, but your 36-4 is fantastic. This is special considering we had 3 PAC12 ranked on ranked games, which has to be the 1st time ever in the PAC which you had 2 of those games right. This conference has been amazing in their last year and still have 6 ranked teams in the AP top 20 for the 2nd week in a row and 4 in the top 10 for the 1st time ever. And the next two, Colorado and UCLA, are 29th and 30th overall when you add the other teams receiving AP votes. I wish this nightmare would end and go back to keep the PAC we all love.
Still with an eye to next year given the die has been cast, here are the PAC records base on future conference allegiance and against all conferences as we enter Week #4:
Big 10/4 Pac teams 15-1, AP ranks #7, 8, 9, 30; 4-1 vs P12 schools; B10 competition vs 0-3 vs P12 (Losses Wisconsin/Nebraska/MSU)
Big 12/4 Pac teams 11-5, AP ranks #10, 29; 2-2 vs P12 schools; B12 competition 1-3 vs P12 (Win OkSt, Losses TCU,/TTU,/Baylor)
ACC/2 Pac teams 3-5, Neither ranked, 0-3 vs P12 schools, no ACC competition against P12 yet
PAC 2 (OSU/WSU) 7-1. AP ranks #16, 19; 1-1 vs P12 schools;
SEC 2-1 against P12 schools (Wins MissSt, Auburn; Loss Florida)
MWC 1-10 against P12 schools (One win Fresno)
Other Go5 FBS schools 0-4 against P12
FCS schools 1-8 against P12 (One win Sacramento State)
Week #5 the PAC2 starts it campaign on the field against the rest of the PAC12 with OSU taking on future Big 12 team & top 10 ranked Utah at home on Friday while WSU has a bye. The future Big10 teams have two against B12/Pac teams (SC at CU & UW at UA) while Oregon goes to ACC/Pac Stanford and UCLA has a bye. The other future ACC team will also try to get their 1st PAC win as they host Big 12 bound ASU.
Ed from Corvallis
Good stuff Ed—thanks.
Dan Lanning is a coach's coach. He spoke to his players, and in doing so captured the feelings of virtually every major college coach about the carnival in Boulder.
Lanning's speech also gave those coaches a valuable asset to fire up their own stakeholders, whom they are asking to pony up even more NIL cash to insulate their rosters from a raid by Colorado. It's working, too, at least from my limited sample.
No one is going to lay down and make it easy for the clown show. I don't doubt that every DC in the MAC was happy to provide notes on how Sean Lewis calls plays. It's only going to get tougher from here how that there's live film to work from. While I think 5-7 is likely I wouldn't bet on it.
Clown Show? Joe are you racist? Everyone is watching Deion and Colorado? Highest rated game of the week? It sure as hell wasn’t rated that high because of Dan Lanning who almost no one would recognize in their supermarket. Let’s see Lanning rebuild Colorado? You think he’s going into black homes and recruiting better than Deion? No way. Just cause you don’t like his flash? A lot of people love it. Prime has been a winner and an amazing athlete no one can deny that. Give the man credit and not hate just because he Carrie’s himself different than the vanilla you are used too. Disappointed you liked his comment John Canzano smh.
When the talk doesn't match the actions, it's called a clown show.
Deon loves to talk how he's old school, but there is nothing old school getting rid of 80+ players... Old school is coaching up players and letting others go that don't fit... Not bragging about that his new players are Louis Vuitton, as if the others are below him, before he even met them.
This hypocrisy, mixed with his desire to be the center of the show rubs many of us the wrong way... That you even insinuate that it has anything to do with race says something more about you than Joe
Mike Elko took David Cutcliffe's undersized batch of 2 stars, won 9 games in year one, and Duke just played Notre Dame to the wire in a top 20 matchup. We do not have to accept Colorado as the new norm, or celebrate what Sanders is doing. There is another way, it's just more demanding.
You can hide it however you want John but it’s blatantly obvious. He’s paid to win and obviously those 80 players weren’t winning. You’re ridiculous to hide behind your hate by calling Prime out for the same actions Saban or even that nobody in Eugene, Manning? Is that his name? Your old and prolly still driving a Buick. Prime is going to change coaching and he will load up the talent. You see he already had the number one QB out of the 25 class? You’re gonna have a lot more hating to do cause he’s not going away and I’m sorry you’re not in the majority, the polls, the ratings and the $$$ are all flowing because of Prime. Why don’t you invite me over to watch a game? I’d love to see the worn Lazy Boy recliner and green shag carpet. Change is a good thing and “ It’s Coming “.
Could you fit in one more ad hominem please.
I find it funny, you are older than me, calling me old lol
And I drive multiple cars, one is a 68 Pontiac that is heavily customized with a 455... Will smoke anything you drive.
But onto an actual response, Deon is a clown show... You don't like it, you don't have to... And no other coach has eviscerated at team so deeply.
I find it funny, you probably get excited by Deons speeches of being old school, and then state I need to stop living in the past... Which is not the problem... Want to see model coaches... Just take a gander in Corvallis, Salt Lake City, Pullman, Seattle ... And I'll admit, as much as I hate admitting it, Eugene.
All white coaches?🤔
John! I changed my bubble pic for you. Talk soon my friend. 😂
Oh and I drive a Lexus IS 300 so you can keep the old Pontiac 😂.
Only goes 145 mph and over 6 seconds 0-60. 😂
Nice flex...
And.....there it is. Didn't take long for someone to play race. Please tell me what Joe said that suggested, implied, or inferred that he is racist. Is it because he called Deion's act a clown show and Deion happens to be black? If that's your reasoning, any time anyone disagrees with what someone of a different race says or does, that makes them racist? Look in the mirror, dude.
Now, that's a post...
And another big mouth that’s anonymous😂. A lot of Beta Males in here. I changed my real face and real name just to piss off the racism in here but I’ll change it back. I’m not a coward that hides behind fake names and no pictures. So lame. And you’re a Beaver fan? So Am I. Thought Beavers were better people. Oh and send me pics of you and your black personal friends?
It’s underlying, he’s got nothing negative to say about any white coaches does he. I have multiple black personal friends, pm I’ll send you photos of me with them JA, if you want to know JA stands for also pm me. If you think racism in America is open and upfront I promise you, info from black friends themselves it’s lowkey and disguised. If Deion actually was a bad dude, a bad example, a thief, a rapist, anything at all that’s factual go ahead and state it. When you dislike someone for they way they look, sound and carry themselves because it’s different from you. That’s subtle racism. I do look in the mirror hoss and I LOVE what I see. Do you?
Let's analyze this. Joe says something positive about Dan Lanning, who is white. He calls the program in Boulder a carnival. Your response is "he has nothing negative to say about white coaches." Therefore, he must be racist. That is a very large leap you made from a difference of opinion to racism. I understand there are undertones of racism all over this country. But you are so hypervigilant trying to find racism, you think you are uncovering it where it does not exist. You say Joe "dislikes" Prime and if you dislike someone who doesn't look or act like you it is racist. The only problem is, he never implied, suggested or inferred that he dislikes Prime. Only that he thinks Prime has created a carnival. So take a breath, read posts carefully, and stop trying to see things that aren't there.
Zero consideration for the possibility that I might be, you know.....Black.
Sanders exploited an HBCU that he never would have given the time of day until it was clear he was unhirable at the FBS level, and he needed JSU as a stepping stone. When he built his Colorado staff, he hired two white coordinators and overlooked dozens of quality deserving Black coaches. He expertly exploits white media afraid of guys like the one crying race here, and fearful of losing access.
So, yeah, there are lots of reasons to take issue with Colorado, and how it's portrayed.
Put your face and name up and I’ll put mine back. Anonymous thoughts should not be allowed.
Blah, blah, blah. Racism is hidden in many ways.
“ better get me now, cause this as bad as it’s gonna be”.
"Carnival in Boulder...clown show?"
Yikes...Sanders takes a horrible program instantly to the national center stage by hiring top assistants, recruiting better players, wins 3 of his first 4 games, gets them into the top 25, and garners excitement throughout the student body, and you vilify him for that? Odd...I've been watching CFB for over fifty years and not seen a turnaround like this in maybe...ever?
Better players?
This argument has no backing... Were the players bad or where they badly coached? 80+ P5 players are all trash? No need for depth?
Good coaches coach up players...
Better players? Yes.
No backing? Hello!
Players bad or badly coached? Both.
P5 players trash? No, he never said that. He still has some of those kids on roster. Takes 85 scholies--he brought in 67. No one lost a scholarship if they wanted to continue education at Colorado. Their choice.
Good coaches develop?
You told me all I need to know about your coaching knowledge and experience.
Smith, DeBoer, Dickert, Whittingham, etc coached up the players they had on roster, let some go. So let them speak with their teams rather than my coaching experience.
So all those coaches you mentioned "let some go?" Then what's different in principle about what Deion did? Nothing. In number, yes, because of the dumpster fire he inherited. You seem to be under the impression a scholarship equates to a guaranteed spot on the team until you graduate. It doesn't...anywhere. The HC makes those calls because he's accountable for winning, not running a Fall football camp. Besides, why don't you focus on the 67 kids who wanted to play for him--not the ones he dismissed? It's unprecedented, I get it, but the transfer portal is a tool there for the taking, and charismatic coaches like Deion are going to use it. It's part of the game now--so what's the issue?
Your stance is one of entertainment sports, like professional sports. Anyone who was a student athlete in college will disagree with you. When you commit to a school, there is a similar commitment from them. No it is not guaranteed, and you have to prove yourself. If you lose a scholarship of your own issues or inability to compete.. That is just part of the agreement. What is a betrayal of that commitment is when someone comes in and judges you, sight unseen and releases regardless of your personal performance.
I know Deon said he allowed them to compete... But other words like bringing in expensive luggage signals the direct opposite.
Schools have athletic departments, not the other way around. Students are athletes, not the other way around. The commitment is not just to playing on the feild but also to and from the school itself... But this race for media dollars has the casual fan calling the shots and that is the real problem
Totally agree Scott. Really disappointing to see grown men bash a successful guy because he’s not the vanilla flavor that’s comfortable.
Unfortunately, the smaller footprint of the Pac 12 network and the dismal performances of football teams on the national stage for the last several years depressed the viewership and interest at the same time the media deals were in play. Not to mention that the conference basically shut down during Covid when everyone else was playing. This year is too little, too late. It's sad.
Since confession is good for the soul, here's mine: I had Oregon winning, but in a close game. I posted that several times/places. Flat out wrong. I'm done predicting spreads. Finished. It's a fool's game. I don't have a clue what I'm doing predicting spreads.
This column has some great details on TV viewership, media rights and more. It takes me back to your last column about Oregon State and Washington State improving their "brand" and why are they getting left behind?
Here's an idea on how to improve your brand: start winning. Consistently. Funny how that solves a lot of problems. Whining and complaining about "getting left behind" and "why isn't our brand better" and "it isn't fair" are reminiscent of crying when you lose and accusing your opponents of piling it on and rolling up the score. You don't like it when someone piles up points? Then stop it. Stop your opponent from scoring. Score a few points yourself. You're in charge of you. Nobody's going to help you fix your "brand". Nobody. It's not their job, it's yours. OSU and WSU: you are good this year and making a strong case for being a Power 5 conference member. Stop bawling like spoiled babies. It's demeaning and you're doing it to yourselves. Have some self-respect and get to work on winning. You'll be a lot happier with yourselves when it happens consistently.
Start winning to improve your brand? I agree. However, are you going to tell me that Virginia, Iowa State, Kansas, Vanderbilt, Missouri, Indiana, Northwestern etc. etc. etc. are still Power 5 because of their "brand"? Those teams have done nothing of more substance than OSU and WSU, so yes, fans of those schools have every right to throw a fit. And no one is "bawling like a spoiled baby." Get a grip and get over yourself.
WSU and OSU fans can "throw a fit" all they want. I'll wait while you post a response explaining the virtues of "throwing a fit". Jeopardy music playing right about here until I get your answer.
Your option, of course, is to stop sucking your thumb and get behind your team and behind the two AD's and presidents that are working their heinies off trying to keep their respective universities from being relegated. Root for the Beavs to kick some butt...write a letter or two to the dudes in charge at OSU (and/or WSU) giving them your support. Do something positive and constructive. Or...you can always do what a large portion of our society does today - portray yourself as an aggrieved victim. The choice is yours.
Of course they can throw a fit. If the roles were reversed and this happened to your beloved Duckies, you would have a moment of anger and rage as well, and if you say you wouldn't, you are a liar. You described Beaver fans as "bawling like a spoiled baby" and now you say they are "sucking their thumb" and "acting like an aggrieved victim." No Beaver fan I know is doing any of that. "Throwing a fit" implies being pissed off and angry, then getting over it. More than one thing can be true at once. Someone can be upset then do all the constructive things that you list to try to make things better. That's what I'm doing an what many fans that I am aware of are doing. So like I said before, get over yourself and your overwrought, immature arrogant portrayal of how you perceive Beavs and Cougs are acting. And what's with the jeopardy music reference? You think you made such a brilliant point that I would be hesitant to respond? Typical Duck arrogance.
I'm glad you're doing what you wrote - something constructive and productive, as opposed to playing the victim role. I agree and support much of what you wrote, although, as usual, you misrepresented important pieces of what I posted. I said "some" Beaver and Cougs fans, not all - not even a majority - are behaving like spoiled children. You disagree with that? Most are ticked, as you said, initially - I don't blame them - I don't blame them for being furious at Oregon and John Karl Scholz, the new village idiot the university hired for president - who drove in the final dagger that obliterated the conference. But pick yourself up, man, and get moving. Do something besides whine. In fact, I'm pleasantly surprised - you've said you are doing something constructive, so it sounds like you agree with me - wallowing in aggrievement is a bad idea.
As for you saying I'm "overwrought, immature and arrogant", I don't give a rip. Call me whatever you want...we're two guys sitting behind a keyboard probably thousands of miles apart that have no clue who the other is - have never met and never will. So, keyboard bravado is fine with me - I can be reasonable (my preference) and actually refrain from personalizing every post or be more similar to you - the choice is yours.
Well, let's be real. When you use comments like "bawling like babies", and "sucking thumbs", I don't need to hide behind keyboard bravado to make a factual statement that your wording is overwrought and immature. I didn't say you were, I said your wording is. Read carefully. And until you corrected yourself in your last post, "arrogant" made sense too, as your implication was, as a Duck fan, you would have just rolled up your sleeves and handled things more maturely than the Beavs and Cougs did. And speaking of reading carefully, I re-read your post and you did not say "some" fans are acting that way. Your implication was that they all were. I guess one more thing, since you accused me of "personalizing every post." That's exactly what you did when you said you were "surprised" I was actually doing something instead of sitting around whining. Don't act like you know me. I guess we should call a truce, because you make it really easy for me to poke holes all over your arguments. And I have stuff to do.
Settle down, SC...whether you know it or not, your words are proving my point. Somebody turn you down for a prom date? You sound like a cranky "get off my lawn" old mossback. But, please, you feel free to call me whatever you want - it's hilarious, particularly when you feign you're above it all.
Oh, "we should call a truce"? Really? I didn't realize we were at war - that kinda belies your notion that you're completely under control, doesn't it? Final point: I did say in more than one post over multiple recent columns that the WSU and OSU whiners were in the minority - it's not my problem you have reading comprehension issues. Nor do I feel like spending much more time and oxygen on the point (unless you must) since the two options for you remain: be a bedwetting thumb-sucker blaming everyone else for your predicament...or get to work on productive and constructive actions that turn your teams into consistent winners who are in great demand. I know what route I would choose, but the choice is yours.
I went to the game and had a blast, but having seen my first Oregon game in the mid-70's, I am old enough to be hard wired with two plus decades of Oregon football that was often not too fun to watch. The script really flipped in 1994, but my weariness is still there.
I wasn't surprised by Oregon's offensive performance-it was the defensive domination that just stunned me.
Glad you enjoyed it. Crowds of 60,000 or more who have been drinking for 3 hours isn't always ideal, but if you're a Ducks fan that game was memorable in more ways than one.
The drinking was not out of control overall.
As for memorable, beating an overmatched team cannot, long term, be described as memorable, but the game was fun.
Memorable would be Ty of BYU screaming at the crowd that his team was coming back, or Rich Brooks winning a big one against USC, or actually seeing the pick in 94 against UW, after listening to their fans sing that god damned Tequila song for the 30th time and then watching them shut the hell up. Michigan was fun. There are many others. Interestingly, even that tie against a mediocre Notre Dame team was memorable as were ties against USC in a year UO went 6-2-2 ( a record the Register Guard described as zany) and the tie against OSU (in the toilet bowl). It's funny what stands out.
Yeah, your definition of "memorable" is better than mine. Those games you mentioned are much more memorable. I will say, however, Lanning's pregame speech was friggin' memorable...absolutely epic.
Well said, RR. I'd only add that though we've all suffered sadness at seeing the Pac-12 die and our traditions with it, the grinding away at finding a conspirator, someone to blame, making enemies, demanding legal retribution, Gov't intervention, sanctimonious platitudes, etc., etc., not only wears thin but denies the reality that life isn't a level playing field. Sports sometimes gives us that illusion, but really, you make your own place on that field. The schools in the Pac-12 never were truly equal and it took an unfortunate media event to shake that out. You're right, RR, now that all the schools know the landscape, like it or not, it's up to them to respond. We use to call that "self-reliance" in America.
Your comments along with those of the”Real Rich” reek of arrogance and sheer ignorance. Let me explain this in terms you might better grasp. Pretend you are a paying passenger (PAC-12 schools) on the Titanic (PAC 12). Through clandestine and outrageous collusion with the ships crew (media moguls) and a cabal
of nefarious passengers (Pac 12 turncoats and backstabbers) steer the ship into the abyss. Of course, prior to the orchestrated catastrophe, lifeboats (B1G, ACC, and BiG 12) for all of the cabal members were carefully placed and easily accessed for the colluders. Once the Good Ship PAC sank, the rest of the passengers (PAC employees) and two remaining passengers (WSU and OSU) were cast adrift. Calls for help were answered by condescending and duplicitous claims of regret snd remorse from the lifeboats. The plans by the backstabbers were then put in place to strip the good ship of its stores and valuables, to cover the costs incurred by the colluders as they guided their lifeboats to safety.
The behavior of the deserters is disgusting and immoral, if not illegal. Pardon the two cast adrift if there is seething anger and hopes for retribution directed to the lifeboats and those aboard the lifeboats.
Ha! Wow, quite a fairy tale, Jim T. You seem like an educated guy--you actually believe that's why OSU and WSU were "cast adrift?" Because of some secret cabal to take them down?!? Not because they each have the lowest value? Not because neither got invited anywhere else? OK, you don't. So the next question is would the two "victims" have accepted an invitation to leave like the others if offered? To maintain your allegory, I guess you have to answer: "No, they would've pushed the lifeboat away and drown like faithful martyrs!" Tragedy, indeed.
Sheezus, lordie! Mr. T dove deep for that little beauty. Must have been real cathartic. I just checked Amazon to see if they had any good deals on baby nipples...glad to order them in bulk for the bedwetters.
Mr. T,
Wonderful writing. Your clever plotting and clearly drawn characters bring the whole thing to life.
So, you’re saying the ship sank because it was steered into an abyss? I thought a brush with an iceberg did it!
Ooooohhhh...poor little babies (WSU and OSU fan)...let me pass you a hankie while I try to regain my composure.
Nice little fairytale.
Here's a hard fact of life...including life in every Power 5 football conference. Each school's program is responsible for their brand. It's not the responsibility of the other ten members of the Pac-12 to put training wheels on OSU and WSU year after year. You should be rallying behind the two AD's and presidents, not curling up in the closet in fetal position sucking your thumb and crying we were treated "unfairly".
Beat somebody. Do it again and again. Get a top ten recruiting class. Win. If you do it consistently, you'll get recognized, you'll have an admired brand and you'll enjoy life and stop acting like an aggrieved victim.
Scott, sports is the ultimate meritocracy. If you can play and win, you will play. Sports has led the way in putting those on the field that were the best players, regardless of color, background, etc., sports has very often led the way. I sense the two AD's and presidents of WSU and OSU are going to fight like hell as opposed to the whining and bellyaching about "unfairness" from many of their fans. I like what I'm learning about the strategy of these two universities - they need to continue to get on with it, including putting a winning team on the field year after year. I hope more of their fans will support those actions as opposed to sticking out their lower lips and claiming their "brand" has been treated unfairly.
Rich? The experts had Oregon winning easily. They have a very high accuracy rate.
I'm no expert and it shows...I'm done betting on the spread - finished, kaput, terminated, a wrap. It's taken a while but I've finally come to my senses in that area.
No worries my friend. It’s up and down but man it’s impressive how often the odds makers are accurate
They consistently demonstrate they know their business and that Barnum was right - "there's a sucker born every minute".
Another anonymous post. Scratch and delete. Like I said, a lot of Beta’s in here.
AS Prime's coach Bobby Bowden once said: FSU is not paying me to hold down the FSU O.
The Big Ten should consider Oregon state & Washington state because they would be perfect partner schools to Oregon and Washington for travel, especially for basketball and some of the other Olympic sports.
That makes too much sense. (sorry for my sarcasm today).
Oregon & Washington & USC & UCLA are travel partners going forward.
True that but if the Big 10 would add the PAC 2 then they could create a western division to minimize travel. The division would happen to be the top 6 current football teams in the old PAC 12.
It's not happening. OSU and WSU IMO are deserving but are not AAU member schools. Had Nebraska not been an AAU member school at the time of the B1G invite it never would have received the invite.
Interesting note and undoubtedly true as I believe all Big Ten schools are AAU members. I was surprised to note, however, that before adding Cal and Stanford only half of ACC members were AAU (not much help to Beavers or Cougs, just interesting given ACC p r )
You could make a very nice living at 58%😀.
John, you can't win them all. But being rooted in substance continues to bring the clicks.
I read somewhere that Cal and Stanford going to the ACC would make it more likely that the Big-12 eventually picks up WSU and OSU. Wouldn't surprise me if the Big-12 is waiting for more clarity from the courts regarding the Pac-12 assets.
There is a deal to be made with the Big 12 if WSU and OSU are pragmatic, like Cal and Stanford were with the ACC, and offer to take a reduced revenue share for several years.
Can't let pride get in the way of a deal, when the only alternative is the MWC. Can't say, "We will only take a full share because Colorado has a full share and we're better than them" or "We demand a full share because our TV ratings are better than almost everyone in your conference". The Big 12 doesn't have to invite anyone. They have the leverage.
I wonder what Coach Lanning will say to his team in the pre-game speech? The scenarios are pretty much the opposite of last week.
- Not a national audience (Pac-12 network)
- Not a national story and an inferior team (Stanford)
Yet, it is Stanford and it is a road game. We all know what happened in years past when playing Stanford, where the Ducks should have won but didn't. I want to see them play with the same intensity and consistency 2 weeks in a row!
Well played, Mark. Fear the Cardinal! Charlie
Indians, Charlie, but it's your first mistake ever...you're entitled. Well played.
C'mon, Real; it was Indians back in the day, the cheerleader outfits with the single feather headband and the moccasin footwear with no sox were the sexiest in Christendom; but when PC took over, they became the Cardinal (royal color not bird) and the Tree became the prominent feature of support, when the band was not on suspension of course.Just sayin' Charlie
Those were the days, Charlie. Jumpin' Joe Francis, John Witte and Nub Beamer going to the Farm and taking on John Brodie and the Indians...with all those feather headbands and moccasin footwear cheerleaders rooting them on. Ahhhh...nothing like the single-wing for a little deception play.
Interesting factoid that you may know - after changing the name from Indians to Cardinals, a Harvard academician was hired to be president of Stanford. He, personally, with no input from colleagues or students, changed the name again from Cardinals to Cardinal. He loved Harvard's C4rimson nickname and - like a ton of east coast snobs - thought he was going to enhance Stanford with that name change. Unfortunately, that's where it is today.
Well played, Charlie!
Well played Real Rich; what a lovely and informative response, and I learned finally how the name change developed. We saw more of the Elway - Puckett era, but followed John Brodie with the 49ERs and then golf (when he informed his wife he was going to play on the tour, she responded: "My God, John, you are going to live your whole life without working a day of it!"). I was not aware of the interim change in Cardinal. I was, and still am, in love with the Leland Stanford Junior Marching Band( I attended a USC game in the 80s with two highlights: when USC Trojan band marched on the field, the welcoming yell was "Big Rubber Band", and then the Stanford band marched on with hat, tie, blazer, and surfing jams, led by their seven foot bandleader in a full wetsuit!-wonderful times). Thanks for your kind letter, offsetting fouls, repeat second down. Best, Charlie
My heavens, make that Plunkett!! Must have been channeling Dan Jenkins. Sorry
Great stuff, Charlie. What a fantastic story about Brodie's wife! She had it right! Love the "Big Rubber Band" welcoming yell and I did not know about that. I'm saddened about the probable end of that great Stanford/USC rivalry...I'll never forget Pete Carroll and Jim Harbaugh exchanging "what's your deal?"
Well played, Charlie - another first down and ten. - Rich.
He’ll say whatever is scripted for him.
I've said it before re the Big10 & 12; why are we all (most of us) leaving for inferior conferences????
No idea if this is accurate or not, but I hope so:
https://youtu.be/cbdnsB9pvFE?si=-RvdMVGwSPBMYFx4
It's worth investigating...thanks.
If I can be serious for a minute:
Why keep a Ferrari parked in the garage. I like John’s idea of seeing a few pre-determine series from Chiles. With NIL and the transfer portal there’s no guarantee this kid will stick around forever.
Let’s take the Ferrari for an occasional spin.
That broadcast from Autzen for a single game was the 1st time this year that a CFB game had over 10M viewers. I am glad so many people watched how good Oregon is, but I think the Deion affect was the most significant since CU has been #1 or #2 in CFB ratings all 4 weeks they've had games. My guess that will happen again next week with SC in Boulder.
https://www.sportsmediawatch.com/college-football-tv-ratings/#week4
As an Oregon homer, I agree. That game would likely have generated about 2 to 3 million views.
I have zero problem with Deion. You don't accomplish what he has done as a football player or coach without hard work and smarts. His outsized personality is just part of the package and is a real positive.
I agree with Phil Knight's assessment of what Deion has done for college football.
Good article.
How about reaching out to Big 12 folks and seeing what they think of the numbers? If they add pacific coast teams there's interest from the pacific coast in their games. If not, who here watches?
As a question are the former Pac 12 teams in the Big 12 in OSU/WSU's corner? Or against them?
Good question. I would think given the options that WSU/OSU have the Big12 should be worried. CBS sports just rated the PAC12 as the #1 conference in the country and the Big 12 is #5 and that is with SEC bound Texas and OU as their top 2 teams. OSU and WSU are both ranked better than any future Big 16 team they will have next year, And just as important, the MWC which clearly wants to work with the PAC2 is rated the 6th best conference,
https://www.cbssports.com/college-football/news/college-football-conference-power-rankings-pac-12-tops-sec-mountain-west-stands-out-among-group-of-five/
The Big12 would be smart to head off that effort by taking both OSU and WSU,
The B12's four new additions this year are looking awfully wobbly at the moment.
I know the UCF roster is decimated by injuries, and BYU is what it is and will figure things out over time, but Houston and Cincinnati both seem to have deeper issues.
The Texas market that Yormark has built the entire strategy around is getting awfully crowded, too, evident in how rapidly Baylor has declined from its Rhule-era perch.
I am going to take heat for saying it, but...TRUTH NUGGETS
The Big12 made a huge mistake jumping in with those 4 schools.
- UCF and Cincinnati are in sort of the same boat. They don't really deserve to be promote. They lack player talent depth and coaching stability. Worse, they will never move the needle if their respective markets/area football wise.
- BYU is perennially mediocre. BYU fans won't admit it but even when they were winning 10+ games a season, it was against not so great competition. They do have the potential to turn it around with improved cashflow.
- Houston (best addition in the lot) could be good. But they have the wrong coach.
Imagine if the future additions for the big 12 were Colorado, Utah, BYU, Houston, Arizona, ASU. OSU & WSU???
That makes a better conference top to bottom.
It's no accident Luke Fickell left Cincinnati when he did, rather than waiting for Ohio State or Michigan to open up. He saw the writing on the wall.
Most B12 schools look at OSU/WSU and see another Kansas State: a place that's expensive and time-consuming to get to, and a team that will always outperform their talent. They may not hit their ceiling annually, but they can ruin your special season even when they're having an off year.
Yet, unlike the Ducks, BYU has a Natty, and unlike every Pac-12 team other than Oregon and UW, Cincinnati has a playoff appearance.
Jon, my guess is every conference left other than the SEC wanted Oregon, in the end. Cincinnati and BYU were only added to the Big 12 out of desperation, when UT and Oklahoma cut the cord. They weren't an appealing target, just the best, maybe, of a bunch of teams no Power 5 Conference would have taken otherwise.
Frankly, had the Pac collapsed last year, I think OSU and WSU would have been easily selected by the Big 12 before those two schools.
As for Oregon, Oregon's done nothing wrong here, except not be stupid and the Apple deal was stupid, no matter how John (whom I respect) tries to spin it.
So what? Any team can have a good year. UCF claims a 2017 natty. How did BYU only win 1 playing in the WAC??? Answer...Edwards lost alot of non conf. Games.
My point is OSU & WSU are better fits than UC and UcF.
Agree. To me the smart move is to add the PAC2 now and get 2 Pacific time zone teams which at least matches the ACC who right now is the only conference they need to compete with. If not the MWC/PAC2 partnersip could definitely become its equal or even pass them. I guess the BIg12 is salivating over CU & Deion next year, but they lose that when Prime leaves which could be soon.
TBD how long Sanders stays in Boulder, but it's virtually certain Sean Lewis will be gone by mid December. I'm sure another offensive coach will seek out the job for the same reason Lewis did, but changing systems between year one and two is a damper on momentum. Lewis will presumably take his OL coach with him when he goes, too.
Let's set the over under for how many seasons Prime stays in Boulder once his Kids are done. ...Opening @ 1 season.
I'd take the under, assuming the bloom isn't off the rose and he can find a taker who can put more cash on the table, rather than promising they can raise it. All outcomes remain on the table.
The problem is, so long as OSU and WSU are not AAU schools they are pretty much limited to an invite from the B12/ a/k/a Fox and ESPN.