Geography is like gravity. You can defy it for awhile but eventually it wins. Either UCLA ultimately returns or the BIG adds more western teams to mitigate the impact.
I agree with you. The other power 5 conferences are still regional. The Big 10 is now coast to coast and I think that the travel factor will be effectively used against them in recruiting battles. In addition the culture and tradition of the Big 10 has been diluted. I think some football teams will have to give up a trophy game to accommodate the new teams and that won't make fans happy. So I don't see the BIG 10 expanding further unless their greed has no bounds.
The UC regents getting UCLA back to the PAC is simple. Threaten the UCLA Chancellor and AD with termination. And if they don’t reverse the decision, terminate them and announce UCLA is staying and be celebrated as heroes.
The only people benefiting from the move are administrators who want to pay themselves higher salaries (and eliminate financial problems for their departments) and TV networks. I’m an Oregon fan who travels to as many away football games as possible. I don’t want every away game to be a full weekend trip requiring long flights, Friday departures, etc. I can’t imagine the athletes and team student support personnel wanting that either.
Those financial issues can be solved in plenty of other ways. Terminate the UCLA decision makers for cause (not including the Regents in the decision), reverse the decision, raise a bunch of money from happy alumni and be welcomed home as the prodigal son returning from misbegotten adventures.
Fortunately for UCLA that's not how the UC system works. The UCLA Chancellor was acting well within their authority. They were given this in 1991 and it includes "Intercollegiate athletic agreements" https://policy.ucop.edu//_files/da/da1058.html
Also athletics at UC campuses are "auxiliary departments" meaning they are expected to be financially self-sufficient and receive no funds from either the campus, UC system or UC Regents.
Weak. Begs more questions than it answers. "All agreements under this delegation must be executed in accordance with the applicable University policies and procedures governing the particular transaction, including, but not limited to, Business and Finance Bulletins, University policies, and relevant guidelines issued by the appropriate functional areas within the Office of the President. All agreements must be approved as to legal form by the General Counsel prior to execution unless previously approved by that office and issued without revision."
We’ll all have to wait and see what UCOP has to report out on August 17 about the move. Should be interesting since UCOP was aware of UCLA’s plans to go to the B1G and UC’s lawyers (note: all campus lawyers actually work for the Office of General Counsel within UCOP) had reviewed the move.
This gets at what I find strange about all this. Any merger or acquisition worth a lawyer's attention proceeds through a process of term sheet, contingent board approval, contract with contingencies, press release (public announcement), due diligence, final board approval, closing. There are pro formas supporting the underlying financial assumptions. Has anything been signed? What? Where are the pro formas? This all seems so slap dash. I can't believe smart, competent people have been involved.
"UCLA leadership informed President Drake that discussions between UCLA and the Big Ten were occurring but he was not involved at all in those discussions or in any negotiations," a spokesperson for the University of California Office of the President told ESPN in an email. "... decisions related to athletics are formulated and executed at the campus-level. There is no requirement for a decision from the University of California Board of Regents or the Office of the President."
Clearly the board was not involved, even though the (July 11) ESPN article goes on to say it had to have been. Also, a lot of non-lawyer sports writers are opining board approval was not required. Apparently the Board disagrees.
A large percent of acquisitions fall apart after announcement. Why not this one?
Geoff, you bring a great point about the travel, especially on the fan side.
That is one aspect of all this that is such a bummer to me. I love going to all the west coast road destinations and stadiums. I love the venues, the cities, the climate regions that one gets down South in particular in late October/November, etc
If more PAC schools are going to the BIG, I really hope it's "enough" (like 6 of them total) to create a mini PAC out West (as a BIG division basically) so some of that can be retained.
That said, I see no path there for the AZ schools and I've long loved those road trips down there later in the Fall.
I've been reading that the Rose Bowl which is owned by Pasadena has a great deal of debt and attendance has been low for UCLA home games even before the pandemic. So Pasadena is hoping that planeloads of snowbound Midwesterners will fly to the sunny Los Angeles for their away games and pump some revenue into the city.
1) this dilutes the importance of the January Rose Bowl in my opinion
2) I'm not sure alot of people will travel at least in September and October as those tend to be nicer months for weather in the Midwest. Plus cost and hassles for travel are really high right now. Not sure for how long that will continue.
It's a long road trip to LA from most all the BIG cities. Long and expensive and hard to imagine swaths of folks doing that for a simple midseason conference game.
Maybe some novelty trips in the initial years, but that doesn't sound like something that will become "a thing". It's just a hard trip to enjoyably make in a weekend.
Celebrated as heroes by who? Certainly not UCLA alumni and fans, who despite Kliavkoff’s nakedly self-serving statement are largely in favor of the move. Nor the players in the non-revenue sports that will need to be cut if not for the Big Ten windfall. The only people who UCLA returning would be good for are the remaining Pac-10 schools.
Glad you’re excited, Alex. But I don’t think you are correct. And I don’t think that this B10 money was the only solution for non-revenue sports remaining viable. Or that fans and student athletes are happier to travel to New Jersey and Maryland rather than Tucson and Pullman.
The B1G move was perhaps not the only solution, but it was the easiest one with the fewest contingencies. "How do we fly there" is a lot easier to answer than "how do we pay for this, get the necessary exposure, and make sure we're not locking ourselves into the 2025 version of the Mountain West?" (and also, what a funny example, as while there are some dire B1G road trips I think UCLA fans will be far more likely to take the direct flights to Newark and DC than they have been to go to Pullman and Tucson, and I say this as someone who loves Pullman).
As far as not thinking I'm correct on UCLA fans, well you'll have to take this UCLA fan's word for it rather than your feelings a thousand miles north.
Hahaha! Touche. I’ll keep trusting my feelings on this one. You go with yours.
To your more tangible comment about financial solutions I agree completely. This is the only reason UCLA made the move and I’m happy to die on that hill.
Well the entirety of our back and forth just now was you claiming that everyone wants this outcome (B10 move) for reasons including money *and* relevance and non-rev sports not being at risk. If there was a financial solution to UCLA remaining in the PAC would your fellow fans want to stay? How close to B10 money would that be? Why? Absent these answers I disagree that your fellow alumni truly want this.
It all comes down to money though. The non-rev sports (to say nothing of the revenue ones) are at risk because of money. And now, the uncertainty (caused in large part, I grant, by this very move) of whether the Pac-X will be a going concern in the future means that even getting a guaranteed $80m/yr from the Pac (something I'm sure Oregon, Washington, and the bay area schools would LOVE to sign off on) could mean nothing if half the conference leaves
Cool, I know like 10x that amount. There are plenty who are wistful about leaving the Pac, but all (among those who care about sports) understand the necessity of the move.
Need more money to support smaller sports...but they go get the money by joining a league that is so far away that all the costs will go way up at the same time.
Major college football is sort of getting to the point where it needs to be its own thing and let conferences exist for all the other sports (and be regionally arranged in a way that makes sense again)
I'm also puzzled how anyone thinks this will benefit those non-revenue programs athletically. If you're a west coast recruit, why would you want to play water sports, soccer, gymnastics, baseball or softball in the B1G. Would you rather have to travel to play ASU in Tempe on a Thursday or Purdue in West Lafayette? This move both saves and punishes those programs at the same time.
Sure. Of course, half your games are still in LA, which for the Angelenos UCLA (and everyone else in the Pac) recruits heavily is more than any other P5 school can say. And if that doesn't work, well, I think UCLA and USC would happily trade one of their elite tennis recruits for an elite football/basketball recruit.
I'm talking just about the non FB sports really, but I agree with you that USC/UCLA might be ok trading other sports/athletes for FB (probably more USC I would guess?).
For the far less glamorous other sports -- I can very easily see those athletes choosing schools that are rooted out West still. Better for them, their sanity, their studies, their families, on and on
One thing to keep an eye on here is ESPN’s status with BIG going forward. If they are shut out of BIG games by Fox it puts a premium on PAC games for them and having a footprint in the LA market might be worth them sweetening the deal for UCLA. It might be worth it to other PAC teams to allow that.
One last add: Cal and the UC system are ticked at UCLA. The regents may well require UCLA to pay to exit the Pac 12 because of the damage it does to Cal. Plus, don’t underestimate the anger in the UC system at being blindsided. If regents impose an exit fee, perhaps an annual one, to compensate Cal it will change the dollar value of UCLA’s jump. Agree it’s unlikely UCLA will reverse course. But if it’s all about money and if the regents, spurred on by a genuinely miffed governor and a vocal portion of UCLA nation unhappy with the move, imposes a hefty exit fee—UCLA’s windfall diminishes.
I completely agree. That's a very good point. Governor Newsom is a very angry person right now toward UCLA. If he decides that he wants an annual exit fee for UCLA to go to the Big Ten and the price was so high that UCLA could not go to Big 10, Would that be something that you could see him doing?
I know he can't get away with AB1887 or anything else, but can you see any other alternatives that Gavin could use to stop UCLA from going into the Big 10?
without UCLA and USC, the pac-12 slides further into oblivion. prove me wrong but last time I checked, big money rules the world, and also rules sports on tv. you want sisters of the poor to join the pac-12? good luck as they have a new tv deal in san diego all lined up. The pac-12 had a chance by dumping their former leader. Now, this new guy has shown his lack of brains , he still thinks he has a solution. He is hiding under his Las Vegas home; he knows he was caught not doing his job, and for him to act surprised at what UCLA and USA is a stupid damn lie. He sounds like trump; aways blaming the other fool who is as dumb as him. The pac-12 is doomed forever as a major college sports league unless they get a huge ESPN tv deal right now, which is a pipe dream. Why would ESPN want the pac-12? Only reason would be if they want to show Pac-12 football games when there is nothing else on, like at 10:30 pm est. It is called dollars and cents, people, and many of you just do not get it. DONNIE DUCK'S LATEST on substack,com
UCLA would be crazy to come back to the Pac-12. If you think they would give up about $30 million a year in extra revenue and not join the Big-10 in two years, you either have covid, are a supporter of the dumpster trumpster, or maybe you have monkey pox. Or, maybe you are just plain unintelligent. I got four pfizer covid shots, and will get number five soon. UCLA and USC were very smart to bail out of the junior varsity Pac-12 and get paid. When Bill Walton keeps saying "Pac-12, the conference of champions," he never mentions what sports. It sure is not the two revenue earning sports, that support all the other sports., football and basketball. It will take the Pac-12 or 10 or whatever you want to call it, a minimum of five years to catch the big boys in these sports. You think Alabama is afraid of the Pac-12 teams in football? Heck no. Basketball is the same. I have been a huge Duck fan for about 63 years, and remember the old days when it always rained at Autzen, and we had poor teams. I do not blame Rich Brooks at all, as the facilities in those days were minimal, and this was before Uncle Phil asked Mike Belotti what it would take to get the Ducks to a superior level. Belotti told him an indoor practice facility would be very helpful. The Ducks built one before any other school in the Pac-10 had one. Now, everybody has one. The current facilities in Eugene for football are second to none, including the NFL. Phil and his wife, Penny, have given about $1 billion to the U of O, and not just for athletics. Read SHOE DOG by Mr. Knight if you are interested in the Nike history, and also old Duck tales. The new track facility at Hayward Field is beyond beautiful, and among the very best in the world. It recently hosted the world champonships in track and field. It was the first time a world championship outdoors had been held in the United States. I thank the Knights for building this facility. With Nike, and the duck brand of Ducks that even Disney cannot take over, in Eugene we have all it takes to be a top football and basketball program. The basketball facility, Mathew Knight Arena, is named after a son who died in a scuba diving accident outside the USA. We have a great new young head football coach, who ran the defense for the defending national champions, the Georgia Bulldogs. He is energetic, and a family man. He invites players to his house for dinner, and yard games. His wife survivied cancer. His family loves Eugene. He is not arrogant like slick willy and sub-super mario were. He has a transfer qb also from the SEC, Bo Nix. Bo was freshman of the year at Auburn two years ago. We finally have a coach that is going to be as good as Chip Kelly was when he was in Eugene. We Ducks have the facilities and the coaches. Autzen does not hold 100,000 like all the major schools have. The current Pac 12 tv deal is a real bad joke. UCLA and USC got out of the Pac-12 because they figured out that the extra millions in tv revenue by bailing out now from the Pac-12 was a good business decision. You can say whatever you want, but if you do not believe that big money rules the world, and also runs all sports, again you must support trump. I am a lifelong Christian democrat, who has never voted for a GOP circus clown for President of the US, and never will. If you think covid is a hoax, or if global warming is too, or that the 2020 election was stolen from, or won by trump, then you need to go back and try to buy a GED education. If a PHD scientist from Stanford shows his facts of temperature change worldwide, that he has published yearly, that is good enough for me. It is real hard to fix stupid. I do not like to call anyone stupid, but if the shoe fits, at least try and put it on. I hope I am wrong, Mr. Canzano, but so far the new Pac-12 commisch, unfortunately reminds me of the prior one. When I saw what he said about welcoming back UCLA to the Pac-12, if it happens, I choked on my drink. That was it for me, and along with other things he told you that you wrote about today, I see the Pac-12 has sunken further into oblivion. Now that college atheletes can be paid, and still get a full scholarship, and not have to sit out a year if they transfer, college football has changed dramatically. If you do not like it, then either quit going to the games live, or quit watching the games on tv. Major college football is my favorite sport in the world. I will not drive to Autzen, from Portland, to watch Portland State, but I will watch all Duck games on tv. If ESPN wants to show Pac-12 games on tv that do not start until 10:30 pm est, no problem for me. It is called nationwide exposure, and if getting an ESPN tv deal is the ONLY way the pac-12 will not get left in the dust, I say bring it on. Forget Notre Dame, and NBC. How many other schools have a deal like this? Fact check me on it: zero. ESPN has a value in billions that is more than all pro teams' NET WORTH COMBINED. Disney owns ESPN, and the rich get richer. Fact check me on the value of ESPN or Disney. Fact check me on anything you want. I write a column on the same site as John Canzano. It is on substack.com and my title is DONNIE DUCK'S LATEST. Please check it out and also the Bald Faced Truth by Mr. Canzano. If you want a free subscripton to either or both, all you have to do is send me a valid e-mail address. The pac-12 is in never never land right now. Unless the new comm. can pull a rabbit out of his Las Vegas hat, it is doomed. TV money runs all, and the pac-12 has no clue right now. I, like John, blame a lot of this on the former leader of the pac12 that we finally got deported back to outer Slovakia or wherever he says he is from. ESPN big money is the only solution for the pac-12 and I have little confidence in it happening. You lose the biggest tv markets of the conference in the LA schools, and you think it will not have an effect? Continue to be a loser, and vote red in 2022 and in 2024. Keep supporting donald trump, go stand by a windmill and double your dose of covfefe, that trump invented, and pull down your pants and face due south by southwest. Say a prayer to whoever you want, and see how this all works for you. We dumped trump in 2020 and will do so again in 2024, unless he is convicted of a felony first. The only problem for all these trump supporters, who are positive the 2020 election was stolen, is that they have zero proof. Zero as in 0. Now, they want to back this moron is 2024? OMG people, get a clue for once please. Covid is real, as is global warming, the covid shots will be to your advantage if you get one or more, and if you want to fact check me again, call up your doctor, and ask if they think you should get covid shots. Once again, real hard to fix stupid. Get your head out, get covid shots, quit thinking trump will save your sorry dumb ass, and if you think college football on tv is a watered down version of the good old days, well then join the kamikaze flyers or the roadside bombers. If you want to kill yourself for some cause, go ahead. If you care about other people at all, wear a mask and go get the shots. If you have proof positive of trump being a saviour for the USA, that he is a god or someone special, or that he will lead our divided country to prosperity, then just kiss your stupid ass good by. I watch college football for just 14 or so hours per Saturday, on three tvs. I watch many games, and no commercials. I know football well, and I really like most all of what Mr. Canzano writes. Reading his columns everyday, is how I got inspired to write on the same site as is, substack.com Check us out, and if you can prove any of my fact checks to be false, please show me your proof. GO DUCKS, and thanks John Canzano for your great stories. Donnie Roberts
As a Cal Alumnus and cousins who went to UCLA, it makes little sense from a geographical, social or academic sense for UCLA to join the Big 10. I grew up in Iowa and followed the Hawkeyes and Gophers and think the Big 10 is a great conference, but don't see UCLA and USC as a natural fit. I mean just from a student demographics point of view you have more than 40% of UCLA and a third of USC being Asian while Big 10 schools being demographically quite different. I still remember when FOX made the video mocking Asians-Americans when the Pac 12 just welcomed Colorado and Utah. I don't see any of the movers for USC and UCLA moving to join the Big Ten being Asians or hispanic or black for that matter. I have a lot of friends who went to Big Ten schools and I even went to Urbana-Champaign for an undergraduate semester and though the schools would do their best to welcome USC and UCLA, I still don't see it as a natural fit and don't think the students will enjoy the change.
A lot of similar conversations are flowing around in my family and friends, which is stuffed with P12 graduates from over half the conference (including both LA schools and Berkeley)
It's very polarizing
Abandoning everything for a paycheck.
On one hand folks get it -- and on the other it's a major bummer.
I think the thing is...I won't realllllly miss anyone in the conference. USC is our only rival (Arizona in basketball, but those games are easily scheduled). Hell, I probably have more Michigan and Iowa fan friends in LA than any Pac-10 team.
It was fascinating to me how Kelly and especially Kyle W. lit up when you brought up the topic of movies. For guys that are often terse when talking to reporters, they seemed like they could talk about their favorite movie all day.
OF COURSE we will welcome UCLA to stay - and happily scoop up SDSU, who is actually really good at men's hoops and Football - and are moving into a new state of the art crib this fall. The Aztec's profile would boom in the Pac 12 and brand value grow exponentially overnight. But I wouldn't stop there. Find your way into Texas, get the DFW and HOU markets on board. That is a hella strong 14 team league that will pull TV money and attention good enough to stand shoulder to shoulder with the SEC and B1G.
except Texas goes against the 'culture' and 'geography' arguments, the same arguments we are using against Pac 12 teams going to the Big 10. The one negative with Kliavkoff and others using these reasons as a lines of defense is it boxes them in a corner.
Eabee I would have said the same, except for my work experience between 2015-2019 during which I spent a lot of time in Texas, when I made several extended visits per year to DFW, Houston, Austin, San Antonio and places further afield. I don't see a huge culture clash. And consider those markets have exploding economies with heaps of Pac12 alumni pursuing careers there. And Texas is an easy travel destination from the West Coast.
I'm fascinated by the idea of what would happen to USC in a scenario where UCLA get pulled back into the Pac-12. Does the B1G then target UO and UW to provide USC with a West Coast anchor? They would otherwise essentially be the Hawaii of their conference. Seems they will already be at a competitive disadvantage, but that would seem to take their wheels off. In addition to having a brutal conference schedule, they'd no doubt have to burn a non-conference game against a UCLA, Cal or Stanford.
The bald face truth, is really the bald face speculation. ….we get all these columns of “ who knows wants going to happen” says the Stanford coach. “I’m not predicting they come back” and…..”I’m not going to get into specifics” says commissioner Kliavkof ..pretty hard hitting stuff. And John wraps it all up with..”he left the door ajar” ….man, I can’t wait for the next column..how about you?
I signed up for some sports news ….I just dont think I’m getting it. Do you? I mean..” who knows whats going to happen” says the Stanford coach. IMO is not much of a quote, not really news and pretty weak journalism. I did pay my money, so I do get to state my opinion. You dont have to read them though.
John has kept me abreast of what’s going on during this incredibly chaotic month. I for one really look forward to hearing all that he has to say, even if it isn’t always a “scoop. I try to give him a bit of slack when everyone is being so careful of what information is given out, and If I listened only to SiriusXM or the talk shows, all I’d get was opinions,so I prefer the Bald-faced truth.
I like John Canzano…I bought a subscription. However, after the LA teams left the PAC 12, whats happened. Not much really. John went to LA and interviewed a lot of people, who told him nothing …its all just speculation. The door is ajar??? Really. Thats it. I was hoping to get a column or two about the World Track Championships in Eugene. That was a pretty big story …not a word
I get why the initial interest in SD (tv eyeballs) et al others, but i think it brings mediocrity to the Pac XX. Look at SD's support, or lack thereof, of pro teams. The football Aztecs are not consistently good.
George is a good leader, circle the wagons and wait. No rush decisions, there is opportunity in chaos. Dave M
I stand by my position that Amazon has a prime (no pun intended) opportunity to solidly itself in the football broadcast world by scooping up the Pac-12 rights. And they can throw life-changing money toward the schools and conference. Easily enough to lure back even USC, let alone UCLA.
“USC, you like that $75 million do ya? How does $115 million sound. Come on home, all is forgiven. And free 4K UHD Fire TV Cubes for all your players!”
They want in the sports broadcasting game and they have the money. They can secure the rights for the entire pac 12 including expansion teams for the next half decade or more. But their offer has to be enough to let the LA schools save face and also lucrative enough that they even want to come back and stay.
I would love that. Since the beginning I've viewed USC and Carol Folt as the instigator in all of this and UCLA just happened to be in the car during the drive by. I would love to see USC shove off alone and add beautiful sunny San Diego (home to Top Gun Maverick) to our conference.
Agreed. UCLA coming back and adding San Diego State would be a good outcome. Might be enough to keep anyone else from bolting. Also would knee cap BIG from having a weekly night game to compete against PAC. Another reason ESPN or whoever gets PAC games would want to entice UCLA back into the fold to screw Fox.
Geography is like gravity. You can defy it for awhile but eventually it wins. Either UCLA ultimately returns or the BIG adds more western teams to mitigate the impact.
I agree with you. The other power 5 conferences are still regional. The Big 10 is now coast to coast and I think that the travel factor will be effectively used against them in recruiting battles. In addition the culture and tradition of the Big 10 has been diluted. I think some football teams will have to give up a trophy game to accommodate the new teams and that won't make fans happy. So I don't see the BIG 10 expanding further unless their greed has no bounds.
The UC regents getting UCLA back to the PAC is simple. Threaten the UCLA Chancellor and AD with termination. And if they don’t reverse the decision, terminate them and announce UCLA is staying and be celebrated as heroes.
The only people benefiting from the move are administrators who want to pay themselves higher salaries (and eliminate financial problems for their departments) and TV networks. I’m an Oregon fan who travels to as many away football games as possible. I don’t want every away game to be a full weekend trip requiring long flights, Friday departures, etc. I can’t imagine the athletes and team student support personnel wanting that either.
Those financial issues can be solved in plenty of other ways. Terminate the UCLA decision makers for cause (not including the Regents in the decision), reverse the decision, raise a bunch of money from happy alumni and be welcomed home as the prodigal son returning from misbegotten adventures.
Fortunately for UCLA that's not how the UC system works. The UCLA Chancellor was acting well within their authority. They were given this in 1991 and it includes "Intercollegiate athletic agreements" https://policy.ucop.edu//_files/da/da1058.html
Also athletics at UC campuses are "auxiliary departments" meaning they are expected to be financially self-sufficient and receive no funds from either the campus, UC system or UC Regents.
Weak. Begs more questions than it answers. "All agreements under this delegation must be executed in accordance with the applicable University policies and procedures governing the particular transaction, including, but not limited to, Business and Finance Bulletins, University policies, and relevant guidelines issued by the appropriate functional areas within the Office of the President. All agreements must be approved as to legal form by the General Counsel prior to execution unless previously approved by that office and issued without revision."
A good lawyer could slice through this.
We’ll all have to wait and see what UCOP has to report out on August 17 about the move. Should be interesting since UCOP was aware of UCLA’s plans to go to the B1G and UC’s lawyers (note: all campus lawyers actually work for the Office of General Counsel within UCOP) had reviewed the move.
https://www.universityofcalifornia.edu/press-room/ucop-prepare-report-governor-regents-status-ucla-athletics
This gets at what I find strange about all this. Any merger or acquisition worth a lawyer's attention proceeds through a process of term sheet, contingent board approval, contract with contingencies, press release (public announcement), due diligence, final board approval, closing. There are pro formas supporting the underlying financial assumptions. Has anything been signed? What? Where are the pro formas? This all seems so slap dash. I can't believe smart, competent people have been involved.
I mean, the AD of UCLA, chancellor of UCLA, and president of the entire UC were involved. What’s so slapdash about that?
"UCLA leadership informed President Drake that discussions between UCLA and the Big Ten were occurring but he was not involved at all in those discussions or in any negotiations," a spokesperson for the University of California Office of the President told ESPN in an email. "... decisions related to athletics are formulated and executed at the campus-level. There is no requirement for a decision from the University of California Board of Regents or the Office of the President."
https://www.espn.com/college-football/story/_/id/34217498/inside-stunning-usc-ucla-move-big-ten-chaos-followed
Clearly the board was not involved, even though the (July 11) ESPN article goes on to say it had to have been. Also, a lot of non-lawyer sports writers are opining board approval was not required. Apparently the Board disagrees.
A large percent of acquisitions fall apart after announcement. Why not this one?
Yup ☝️
Exactly. UCLA is moving to the Big Ten. It is time for George Kliavkoff and everyone else to accept it and move on.
Geoff, you bring a great point about the travel, especially on the fan side.
That is one aspect of all this that is such a bummer to me. I love going to all the west coast road destinations and stadiums. I love the venues, the cities, the climate regions that one gets down South in particular in late October/November, etc
If more PAC schools are going to the BIG, I really hope it's "enough" (like 6 of them total) to create a mini PAC out West (as a BIG division basically) so some of that can be retained.
That said, I see no path there for the AZ schools and I've long loved those road trips down there later in the Fall.
I've been reading that the Rose Bowl which is owned by Pasadena has a great deal of debt and attendance has been low for UCLA home games even before the pandemic. So Pasadena is hoping that planeloads of snowbound Midwesterners will fly to the sunny Los Angeles for their away games and pump some revenue into the city.
1) this dilutes the importance of the January Rose Bowl in my opinion
2) I'm not sure alot of people will travel at least in September and October as those tend to be nicer months for weather in the Midwest. Plus cost and hassles for travel are really high right now. Not sure for how long that will continue.
Yeah, that seems like wishful thinking..
It's a long road trip to LA from most all the BIG cities. Long and expensive and hard to imagine swaths of folks doing that for a simple midseason conference game.
Maybe some novelty trips in the initial years, but that doesn't sound like something that will become "a thing". It's just a hard trip to enjoyably make in a weekend.
Celebrated as heroes by who? Certainly not UCLA alumni and fans, who despite Kliavkoff’s nakedly self-serving statement are largely in favor of the move. Nor the players in the non-revenue sports that will need to be cut if not for the Big Ten windfall. The only people who UCLA returning would be good for are the remaining Pac-10 schools.
Glad you’re excited, Alex. But I don’t think you are correct. And I don’t think that this B10 money was the only solution for non-revenue sports remaining viable. Or that fans and student athletes are happier to travel to New Jersey and Maryland rather than Tucson and Pullman.
The B1G move was perhaps not the only solution, but it was the easiest one with the fewest contingencies. "How do we fly there" is a lot easier to answer than "how do we pay for this, get the necessary exposure, and make sure we're not locking ourselves into the 2025 version of the Mountain West?" (and also, what a funny example, as while there are some dire B1G road trips I think UCLA fans will be far more likely to take the direct flights to Newark and DC than they have been to go to Pullman and Tucson, and I say this as someone who loves Pullman).
As far as not thinking I'm correct on UCLA fans, well you'll have to take this UCLA fan's word for it rather than your feelings a thousand miles north.
Hahaha! Touche. I’ll keep trusting my feelings on this one. You go with yours.
To your more tangible comment about financial solutions I agree completely. This is the only reason UCLA made the move and I’m happy to die on that hill.
Enjoy the rest of your weekend.
Haha is anybody not saying UCLA and USC did this for financial reasons? No need to die on that hill, everybody is there with you already.
Well the entirety of our back and forth just now was you claiming that everyone wants this outcome (B10 move) for reasons including money *and* relevance and non-rev sports not being at risk. If there was a financial solution to UCLA remaining in the PAC would your fellow fans want to stay? How close to B10 money would that be? Why? Absent these answers I disagree that your fellow alumni truly want this.
It all comes down to money though. The non-rev sports (to say nothing of the revenue ones) are at risk because of money. And now, the uncertainty (caused in large part, I grant, by this very move) of whether the Pac-X will be a going concern in the future means that even getting a guaranteed $80m/yr from the Pac (something I'm sure Oregon, Washington, and the bay area schools would LOVE to sign off on) could mean nothing if half the conference leaves
Cool, I know like 10x that amount. There are plenty who are wistful about leaving the Pac, but all (among those who care about sports) understand the necessity of the move.
This could be the end of most minor sports for a lot of schools.
I don't think they will want to spend millions more on transportation costs for
Tennis, Golf, Volleyball, Soccer, etc. Proximity matters.
Yeah, it's sort of circle here...
Need more money to support smaller sports...but they go get the money by joining a league that is so far away that all the costs will go way up at the same time.
Major college football is sort of getting to the point where it needs to be its own thing and let conferences exist for all the other sports (and be regionally arranged in a way that makes sense again)
I'm also puzzled how anyone thinks this will benefit those non-revenue programs athletically. If you're a west coast recruit, why would you want to play water sports, soccer, gymnastics, baseball or softball in the B1G. Would you rather have to travel to play ASU in Tempe on a Thursday or Purdue in West Lafayette? This move both saves and punishes those programs at the same time.
The real question for many UCLA student athletes before the B1G move is: would you rather play Purdue in West Lafayette or have your sport eliminated?
That's what I wrote essentially. But the third option, and most attractive option for many, will be to just play elsewhere.
Or I guess ultimately go to a school that's still playing regionally.
I think it has the potential to change recruiting and choices for a lot of athletes
Sure. Of course, half your games are still in LA, which for the Angelenos UCLA (and everyone else in the Pac) recruits heavily is more than any other P5 school can say. And if that doesn't work, well, I think UCLA and USC would happily trade one of their elite tennis recruits for an elite football/basketball recruit.
I'm talking just about the non FB sports really, but I agree with you that USC/UCLA might be ok trading other sports/athletes for FB (probably more USC I would guess?).
For the far less glamorous other sports -- I can very easily see those athletes choosing schools that are rooted out West still. Better for them, their sanity, their studies, their families, on and on
One thing to keep an eye on here is ESPN’s status with BIG going forward. If they are shut out of BIG games by Fox it puts a premium on PAC games for them and having a footprint in the LA market might be worth them sweetening the deal for UCLA. It might be worth it to other PAC teams to allow that.
One last add: Cal and the UC system are ticked at UCLA. The regents may well require UCLA to pay to exit the Pac 12 because of the damage it does to Cal. Plus, don’t underestimate the anger in the UC system at being blindsided. If regents impose an exit fee, perhaps an annual one, to compensate Cal it will change the dollar value of UCLA’s jump. Agree it’s unlikely UCLA will reverse course. But if it’s all about money and if the regents, spurred on by a genuinely miffed governor and a vocal portion of UCLA nation unhappy with the move, imposes a hefty exit fee—UCLA’s windfall diminishes.
I completely agree. That's a very good point. Governor Newsom is a very angry person right now toward UCLA. If he decides that he wants an annual exit fee for UCLA to go to the Big Ten and the price was so high that UCLA could not go to Big 10, Would that be something that you could see him doing?
I know he can't get away with AB1887 or anything else, but can you see any other alternatives that Gavin could use to stop UCLA from going into the Big 10?
without UCLA and USC, the pac-12 slides further into oblivion. prove me wrong but last time I checked, big money rules the world, and also rules sports on tv. you want sisters of the poor to join the pac-12? good luck as they have a new tv deal in san diego all lined up. The pac-12 had a chance by dumping their former leader. Now, this new guy has shown his lack of brains , he still thinks he has a solution. He is hiding under his Las Vegas home; he knows he was caught not doing his job, and for him to act surprised at what UCLA and USA is a stupid damn lie. He sounds like trump; aways blaming the other fool who is as dumb as him. The pac-12 is doomed forever as a major college sports league unless they get a huge ESPN tv deal right now, which is a pipe dream. Why would ESPN want the pac-12? Only reason would be if they want to show Pac-12 football games when there is nothing else on, like at 10:30 pm est. It is called dollars and cents, people, and many of you just do not get it. DONNIE DUCK'S LATEST on substack,com
UCLA would be crazy to come back to the Pac-12. If you think they would give up about $30 million a year in extra revenue and not join the Big-10 in two years, you either have covid, are a supporter of the dumpster trumpster, or maybe you have monkey pox. Or, maybe you are just plain unintelligent. I got four pfizer covid shots, and will get number five soon. UCLA and USC were very smart to bail out of the junior varsity Pac-12 and get paid. When Bill Walton keeps saying "Pac-12, the conference of champions," he never mentions what sports. It sure is not the two revenue earning sports, that support all the other sports., football and basketball. It will take the Pac-12 or 10 or whatever you want to call it, a minimum of five years to catch the big boys in these sports. You think Alabama is afraid of the Pac-12 teams in football? Heck no. Basketball is the same. I have been a huge Duck fan for about 63 years, and remember the old days when it always rained at Autzen, and we had poor teams. I do not blame Rich Brooks at all, as the facilities in those days were minimal, and this was before Uncle Phil asked Mike Belotti what it would take to get the Ducks to a superior level. Belotti told him an indoor practice facility would be very helpful. The Ducks built one before any other school in the Pac-10 had one. Now, everybody has one. The current facilities in Eugene for football are second to none, including the NFL. Phil and his wife, Penny, have given about $1 billion to the U of O, and not just for athletics. Read SHOE DOG by Mr. Knight if you are interested in the Nike history, and also old Duck tales. The new track facility at Hayward Field is beyond beautiful, and among the very best in the world. It recently hosted the world champonships in track and field. It was the first time a world championship outdoors had been held in the United States. I thank the Knights for building this facility. With Nike, and the duck brand of Ducks that even Disney cannot take over, in Eugene we have all it takes to be a top football and basketball program. The basketball facility, Mathew Knight Arena, is named after a son who died in a scuba diving accident outside the USA. We have a great new young head football coach, who ran the defense for the defending national champions, the Georgia Bulldogs. He is energetic, and a family man. He invites players to his house for dinner, and yard games. His wife survivied cancer. His family loves Eugene. He is not arrogant like slick willy and sub-super mario were. He has a transfer qb also from the SEC, Bo Nix. Bo was freshman of the year at Auburn two years ago. We finally have a coach that is going to be as good as Chip Kelly was when he was in Eugene. We Ducks have the facilities and the coaches. Autzen does not hold 100,000 like all the major schools have. The current Pac 12 tv deal is a real bad joke. UCLA and USC got out of the Pac-12 because they figured out that the extra millions in tv revenue by bailing out now from the Pac-12 was a good business decision. You can say whatever you want, but if you do not believe that big money rules the world, and also runs all sports, again you must support trump. I am a lifelong Christian democrat, who has never voted for a GOP circus clown for President of the US, and never will. If you think covid is a hoax, or if global warming is too, or that the 2020 election was stolen from, or won by trump, then you need to go back and try to buy a GED education. If a PHD scientist from Stanford shows his facts of temperature change worldwide, that he has published yearly, that is good enough for me. It is real hard to fix stupid. I do not like to call anyone stupid, but if the shoe fits, at least try and put it on. I hope I am wrong, Mr. Canzano, but so far the new Pac-12 commisch, unfortunately reminds me of the prior one. When I saw what he said about welcoming back UCLA to the Pac-12, if it happens, I choked on my drink. That was it for me, and along with other things he told you that you wrote about today, I see the Pac-12 has sunken further into oblivion. Now that college atheletes can be paid, and still get a full scholarship, and not have to sit out a year if they transfer, college football has changed dramatically. If you do not like it, then either quit going to the games live, or quit watching the games on tv. Major college football is my favorite sport in the world. I will not drive to Autzen, from Portland, to watch Portland State, but I will watch all Duck games on tv. If ESPN wants to show Pac-12 games on tv that do not start until 10:30 pm est, no problem for me. It is called nationwide exposure, and if getting an ESPN tv deal is the ONLY way the pac-12 will not get left in the dust, I say bring it on. Forget Notre Dame, and NBC. How many other schools have a deal like this? Fact check me on it: zero. ESPN has a value in billions that is more than all pro teams' NET WORTH COMBINED. Disney owns ESPN, and the rich get richer. Fact check me on the value of ESPN or Disney. Fact check me on anything you want. I write a column on the same site as John Canzano. It is on substack.com and my title is DONNIE DUCK'S LATEST. Please check it out and also the Bald Faced Truth by Mr. Canzano. If you want a free subscripton to either or both, all you have to do is send me a valid e-mail address. The pac-12 is in never never land right now. Unless the new comm. can pull a rabbit out of his Las Vegas hat, it is doomed. TV money runs all, and the pac-12 has no clue right now. I, like John, blame a lot of this on the former leader of the pac12 that we finally got deported back to outer Slovakia or wherever he says he is from. ESPN big money is the only solution for the pac-12 and I have little confidence in it happening. You lose the biggest tv markets of the conference in the LA schools, and you think it will not have an effect? Continue to be a loser, and vote red in 2022 and in 2024. Keep supporting donald trump, go stand by a windmill and double your dose of covfefe, that trump invented, and pull down your pants and face due south by southwest. Say a prayer to whoever you want, and see how this all works for you. We dumped trump in 2020 and will do so again in 2024, unless he is convicted of a felony first. The only problem for all these trump supporters, who are positive the 2020 election was stolen, is that they have zero proof. Zero as in 0. Now, they want to back this moron is 2024? OMG people, get a clue for once please. Covid is real, as is global warming, the covid shots will be to your advantage if you get one or more, and if you want to fact check me again, call up your doctor, and ask if they think you should get covid shots. Once again, real hard to fix stupid. Get your head out, get covid shots, quit thinking trump will save your sorry dumb ass, and if you think college football on tv is a watered down version of the good old days, well then join the kamikaze flyers or the roadside bombers. If you want to kill yourself for some cause, go ahead. If you care about other people at all, wear a mask and go get the shots. If you have proof positive of trump being a saviour for the USA, that he is a god or someone special, or that he will lead our divided country to prosperity, then just kiss your stupid ass good by. I watch college football for just 14 or so hours per Saturday, on three tvs. I watch many games, and no commercials. I know football well, and I really like most all of what Mr. Canzano writes. Reading his columns everyday, is how I got inspired to write on the same site as is, substack.com Check us out, and if you can prove any of my fact checks to be false, please show me your proof. GO DUCKS, and thanks John Canzano for your great stories. Donnie Roberts
The problem with the LA schools has always been one of culture. Much like the problem with LA has always been one of culture.
Screw em I say, we are better off without the plastic eye balls watching anyway.
As a Cal Alumnus and cousins who went to UCLA, it makes little sense from a geographical, social or academic sense for UCLA to join the Big 10. I grew up in Iowa and followed the Hawkeyes and Gophers and think the Big 10 is a great conference, but don't see UCLA and USC as a natural fit. I mean just from a student demographics point of view you have more than 40% of UCLA and a third of USC being Asian while Big 10 schools being demographically quite different. I still remember when FOX made the video mocking Asians-Americans when the Pac 12 just welcomed Colorado and Utah. I don't see any of the movers for USC and UCLA moving to join the Big Ten being Asians or hispanic or black for that matter. I have a lot of friends who went to Big Ten schools and I even went to Urbana-Champaign for an undergraduate semester and though the schools would do their best to welcome USC and UCLA, I still don't see it as a natural fit and don't think the students will enjoy the change.
A lot of similar conversations are flowing around in my family and friends, which is stuffed with P12 graduates from over half the conference (including both LA schools and Berkeley)
It's very polarizing
Abandoning everything for a paycheck.
On one hand folks get it -- and on the other it's a major bummer.
I think the thing is...I won't realllllly miss anyone in the conference. USC is our only rival (Arizona in basketball, but those games are easily scheduled). Hell, I probably have more Michigan and Iowa fan friends in LA than any Pac-10 team.
I think you're a bit unique in that Alex, but this is good for you then it sounds like!
Cheers
You mean besides UCLA's black AD?
Plus as far as "cultural fit" goes, this isn't combining student bodies we're talking about. It's playing sports against different teams.
It was fascinating to me how Kelly and especially Kyle W. lit up when you brought up the topic of movies. For guys that are often terse when talking to reporters, they seemed like they could talk about their favorite movie all day.
OF COURSE we will welcome UCLA to stay - and happily scoop up SDSU, who is actually really good at men's hoops and Football - and are moving into a new state of the art crib this fall. The Aztec's profile would boom in the Pac 12 and brand value grow exponentially overnight. But I wouldn't stop there. Find your way into Texas, get the DFW and HOU markets on board. That is a hella strong 14 team league that will pull TV money and attention good enough to stand shoulder to shoulder with the SEC and B1G.
except Texas goes against the 'culture' and 'geography' arguments, the same arguments we are using against Pac 12 teams going to the Big 10. The one negative with Kliavkoff and others using these reasons as a lines of defense is it boxes them in a corner.
Eabee I would have said the same, except for my work experience between 2015-2019 during which I spent a lot of time in Texas, when I made several extended visits per year to DFW, Houston, Austin, San Antonio and places further afield. I don't see a huge culture clash. And consider those markets have exploding economies with heaps of Pac12 alumni pursuing careers there. And Texas is an easy travel destination from the West Coast.
I'm fascinated by the idea of what would happen to USC in a scenario where UCLA get pulled back into the Pac-12. Does the B1G then target UO and UW to provide USC with a West Coast anchor? They would otherwise essentially be the Hawaii of their conference. Seems they will already be at a competitive disadvantage, but that would seem to take their wheels off. In addition to having a brutal conference schedule, they'd no doubt have to burn a non-conference game against a UCLA, Cal or Stanford.
USC would take the gift of being the only west coast school in the big time and not think twice.
Clearly. But who wins beside the B1G, Fox and USC administrators?
The bald face truth, is really the bald face speculation. ….we get all these columns of “ who knows wants going to happen” says the Stanford coach. “I’m not predicting they come back” and…..”I’m not going to get into specifics” says commissioner Kliavkof ..pretty hard hitting stuff. And John wraps it all up with..”he left the door ajar” ….man, I can’t wait for the next column..how about you?
Nobody is forcing you to read the blog Rich
I signed up for some sports news ….I just dont think I’m getting it. Do you? I mean..” who knows whats going to happen” says the Stanford coach. IMO is not much of a quote, not really news and pretty weak journalism. I did pay my money, so I do get to state my opinion. You dont have to read them though.
John has kept me abreast of what’s going on during this incredibly chaotic month. I for one really look forward to hearing all that he has to say, even if it isn’t always a “scoop. I try to give him a bit of slack when everyone is being so careful of what information is given out, and If I listened only to SiriusXM or the talk shows, all I’d get was opinions,so I prefer the Bald-faced truth.
I like John Canzano…I bought a subscription. However, after the LA teams left the PAC 12, whats happened. Not much really. John went to LA and interviewed a lot of people, who told him nothing …its all just speculation. The door is ajar??? Really. Thats it. I was hoping to get a column or two about the World Track Championships in Eugene. That was a pretty big story …not a word
I hear what you were saying, but I honestly signed up to get John doing what John does.
I love how he covers things from multiple angles and talks about normal life and speculates when he has sourcing and rationale to do so.
I get why the initial interest in SD (tv eyeballs) et al others, but i think it brings mediocrity to the Pac XX. Look at SD's support, or lack thereof, of pro teams. The football Aztecs are not consistently good.
George is a good leader, circle the wagons and wait. No rush decisions, there is opportunity in chaos. Dave M
I stand by my position that Amazon has a prime (no pun intended) opportunity to solidly itself in the football broadcast world by scooping up the Pac-12 rights. And they can throw life-changing money toward the schools and conference. Easily enough to lure back even USC, let alone UCLA.
“USC, you like that $75 million do ya? How does $115 million sound. Come on home, all is forgiven. And free 4K UHD Fire TV Cubes for all your players!”
"Do you still enjoy that free same-day delivery, USC? Cuz it'd be a shame if something happened to it."
Screw USC. Cut them loose. I'd welcome back UCLA and add in sunny San Diego and we cover the entire West Coast from Baja to Puget Sound.
I’m as mad at them as you. But that might be a bit of cutting off your nose to spite your face.
Why would Amazon pay that type of money when nobody else is offering it?
They want in the sports broadcasting game and they have the money. They can secure the rights for the entire pac 12 including expansion teams for the next half decade or more. But their offer has to be enough to let the LA schools save face and also lucrative enough that they even want to come back and stay.
If Gov. Newsome and the Board of Regents oppose the move, UCLA isn't moving. Add San Diego State and you have a Pac-12 with better media access.
I would love that. Since the beginning I've viewed USC and Carol Folt as the instigator in all of this and UCLA just happened to be in the car during the drive by. I would love to see USC shove off alone and add beautiful sunny San Diego (home to Top Gun Maverick) to our conference.
Agreed. UCLA coming back and adding San Diego State would be a good outcome. Might be enough to keep anyone else from bolting. Also would knee cap BIG from having a weekly night game to compete against PAC. Another reason ESPN or whoever gets PAC games would want to entice UCLA back into the fold to screw Fox.