Civil War is perfect and there have been hundreds, maybe thousands of civil wars over time. The Civil War fought between the Union and Confederates in just one of many. The definition of Civil War is a "war between citizens of the same country". Replace country with state and voila, The Civil War Game. Stop the stupid.
Yep. Its a conflict between different factions within a group or political subdivision (often, but not necessarily, a country; can also be a state, etc.) where there are a considerable number of members on both sides of an issue, who are willing to fight for their view.
Projecting one such conflict onto another one in another place at a different time is usually quite a stretch.
Growing up in Oregon- I knew about the Civil War, Abe Lincoln and the North and South. My take on the football Civil War was Oregonians were divided on allegiances, but could remain Civil in spite of the differences. I had one sister at U of O, one at OSU at the same time. Civility still was in the house.
Personally I think the word police continue to go to far.
Volman, you hit the nail on they head! It’s because so many Oregon households are split! It’s a civil battle, and has nothing to do with slavery or even the war that nearly tore the country apart. It’s an Oregon thing!
The Washington schools have the Apple Cup, why not rename it the Pinot Cup.
Or, you know, we could just stick with Civil War? I've never heard of a single person who thought the game had a connection to the perpetuation of slavery....except for two snooty academics who wouldn't know a football if they sat on one the wrong way.
Enough already. Civil wars are as old as mankind. Any dispute that pits brother against brother, spouse against spouse, parent against child is by definition a civil war. This Oregon tradition is an enjoyable conflict that divides, friends, families and neighbors. This is not the American Civil War it is just a game that allows true Oregonians a chance to have some fun around the Thanksgiving dinner table.
Make it distinct and official by designating it "The Oregon Civil War" and be done with it. I get what they were aiming at, and at the time it played well with the cultural climate, but as many have pointed out, "civil war" has a well understood generic meaning, and that label is deeply engrained in the state's culture. Give it some art and a copyright, announce it with a clarifying joint press release, and own it!
I was always a bit concerned about how two schools in Oregon could use the term "Civil War". However, your idea of calling it the "Oregon Civil War" makes a lot of sense...as does the Pinot Cup or Willamette Classic or the Grass Cup (lots of grass seed between Eugene and Corvallis--an other types of "grass").
Nov 22, 2022·edited Nov 22, 2022Liked by John Canzano
"suggests a rather clueless university president." Precisely. Academic elites might be book smart but are often social idiots. This is the societal sickness of our time, putting heavy and negative meaning in words and phrases where none was ever intended (it is called "woke" but I am getting tired of that term). I agree with your New Hampshire professor, Bill Harris, that the term civil war, as in every intra-state battle ever fought (it is hardly exclusive to our own 1861-65 affair) is, as the professor said, an indication "the rivalry was a big one". Bingo. Nothing more. All good fun. No social statements were ever made or intended.
So why is our society slowly asphyxiating itself over misinterpreted words? In the minds of some social experts, it is a lack of personal meaning and importance for millions of young, and quite a few older, people. Without an important and existential threat to contend with, like World War, famine, starvation, nuclear holocaust, that most previous generations in all of history had to contend with, people just make something up to rile themselves against their fellow citizens whom they see as a source of evil with their awful traditions. I am taking a stand. I will not let my world be torn down without a fight. So, with your permission, John, I will verbally spar here, with those who don't care for our world.
Get over yourself Brian. You are not so important as to be able to determine what "our" world should or should not be. I agree some of what's being done is too much, (particularly this Civil War debate), however most of what people call "woke" is a simple reaction to the insanity coming out of the christo fascist leadership and all of their followers.
Wow, dial it back CJ... I think you and Brian McMorris agree on the Civil War debate. Why so aggressive? I have no idea what you mean by 'most of what people call, "woke" is...'. From where I sit you need to put on some big boy pants and add a little civility to your comments.
I would suggest you get over Yourself, CJ. I am not the one constantly advocating to change everything in our society just for the sake of change, pretending to be doing something very important and rescuing someone or something from some terrible and unknown persecution. All societies need tradition. So stop trying to take ours away
Neither am I. But YOU ARE on here spewing some bullshit about tradition and whaaa whaaa.......everybody's picking on me. Put your big boy pants on, wipe your nose and get on with your life.
Do not let the press control you. Government and politicians and multibillion companies like the rotation of conflict that the political cycle perpetuates it enables them to have a new position in which to profit every two years. legacy and legacy related media is the ultimate “shit stirrer” That is the cause.
If you want to see what the Civil War is about, come to my home. My sons are alumni of OSU and UO, and the “brother vs brother” debate is alive and well every Thanksgiving.
Family Feud is my favorite suggestion so far! It has an authentic feel to it, much like "Civil War" does. Any name created by university administration, media or the state legislature will reek of a marketing slogan and people will never buy into that on a large scale. The authentic origin of the name is why most will always call the game Civil War and will do so with no particular reference to the history of any country in mind.
I would bet 90% of fans still call it the Civil War...in fact I know that is true outside of the campuses which seem to live in a different world than the rest of the Alumni and fans anyway. It really is ridiculous...but that is the world we live in...especially in this state.
New Hampshire motto on all license plates: Live Free Or Die.
Where was the concept of 'democracy' involved when the name 'Civil War' was expunged by two university presidents? As I recall Ducks and Beavers fans including alumni and alumnae were not given a vote on the matter.
I remember calling it that. I kind of meanly told my Beavers football frat brother he was playing in the Nut Bowl. It would have been tough to play on those mid to late 70s teams
It’ll always be the Civil War to me. Traditions are important & let’s put this in perspective & context. I’m on the side of history believing the Civil War resulted in ending slavery.....& that was a great event in our country’s history! The aforementioned university president is no longer there.
In the now land of politically correct, one must assume both UO & OSU presidents felt pressure to remove that which has existed for a 100 years. "The Civil War". Curious...who or what brought that pressure? Or better, why was the pressure successful? What would have happened to them if they just said "no"?
Yes, if they had said "no", and a little time goes by and a few awesome games are played, would the same social environment and pressure still exist? Time wounds all heels, then they go away to fight other lame wars.
Best to shut the hell up, have fun and watch the best game it's always been - The Civil War!
Civil War is perfect and there have been hundreds, maybe thousands of civil wars over time. The Civil War fought between the Union and Confederates in just one of many. The definition of Civil War is a "war between citizens of the same country". Replace country with state and voila, The Civil War Game. Stop the stupid.
Laid out perfectly. It should obviously just be called “The Civil War”.
Unfortunately, we live in an era where truth in advertising and journalism have become things many strive to avoid at all cost!
And we the people fail. drjimxlaw64@gmail.com
Yep. Its a conflict between different factions within a group or political subdivision (often, but not necessarily, a country; can also be a state, etc.) where there are a considerable number of members on both sides of an issue, who are willing to fight for their view.
Projecting one such conflict onto another one in another place at a different time is usually quite a stretch.
Amen! Wise words!
Growing up in Oregon- I knew about the Civil War, Abe Lincoln and the North and South. My take on the football Civil War was Oregonians were divided on allegiances, but could remain Civil in spite of the differences. I had one sister at U of O, one at OSU at the same time. Civility still was in the house.
Personally I think the word police continue to go to far.
Volman, you hit the nail on they head! It’s because so many Oregon households are split! It’s a civil battle, and has nothing to do with slavery or even the war that nearly tore the country apart. It’s an Oregon thing!
The Washington schools have the Apple Cup, why not rename it the Pinot Cup.
Or, you know, we could just stick with Civil War? I've never heard of a single person who thought the game had a connection to the perpetuation of slavery....except for two snooty academics who wouldn't know a football if they sat on one the wrong way.
Haha! Perfect!
Funny!
It is, and always will be, the Civil War. Go Beavs!
Go Ducks!
Enough already. Civil wars are as old as mankind. Any dispute that pits brother against brother, spouse against spouse, parent against child is by definition a civil war. This Oregon tradition is an enjoyable conflict that divides, friends, families and neighbors. This is not the American Civil War it is just a game that allows true Oregonians a chance to have some fun around the Thanksgiving dinner table.
Make it distinct and official by designating it "The Oregon Civil War" and be done with it. I get what they were aiming at, and at the time it played well with the cultural climate, but as many have pointed out, "civil war" has a well understood generic meaning, and that label is deeply engrained in the state's culture. Give it some art and a copyright, announce it with a clarifying joint press release, and own it!
I was always a bit concerned about how two schools in Oregon could use the term "Civil War". However, your idea of calling it the "Oregon Civil War" makes a lot of sense...as does the Pinot Cup or Willamette Classic or the Grass Cup (lots of grass seed between Eugene and Corvallis--an other types of "grass").
Civil War is perfect! No change needed. Everyone I know says it’ll always be the civil war. Maybe don’t capitalize it. Haha.
Or in the true spirit of student-athletes, misspell it! Charlie
"suggests a rather clueless university president." Precisely. Academic elites might be book smart but are often social idiots. This is the societal sickness of our time, putting heavy and negative meaning in words and phrases where none was ever intended (it is called "woke" but I am getting tired of that term). I agree with your New Hampshire professor, Bill Harris, that the term civil war, as in every intra-state battle ever fought (it is hardly exclusive to our own 1861-65 affair) is, as the professor said, an indication "the rivalry was a big one". Bingo. Nothing more. All good fun. No social statements were ever made or intended.
So why is our society slowly asphyxiating itself over misinterpreted words? In the minds of some social experts, it is a lack of personal meaning and importance for millions of young, and quite a few older, people. Without an important and existential threat to contend with, like World War, famine, starvation, nuclear holocaust, that most previous generations in all of history had to contend with, people just make something up to rile themselves against their fellow citizens whom they see as a source of evil with their awful traditions. I am taking a stand. I will not let my world be torn down without a fight. So, with your permission, John, I will verbally spar here, with those who don't care for our world.
Well played. Charlie
Not "well played" at all. Kind of a childish, schoolyard response, actually. But whatever.
Get over yourself Brian. You are not so important as to be able to determine what "our" world should or should not be. I agree some of what's being done is too much, (particularly this Civil War debate), however most of what people call "woke" is a simple reaction to the insanity coming out of the christo fascist leadership and all of their followers.
Wow, dial it back CJ... I think you and Brian McMorris agree on the Civil War debate. Why so aggressive? I have no idea what you mean by 'most of what people call, "woke" is...'. From where I sit you need to put on some big boy pants and add a little civility to your comments.
I would suggest you get over Yourself, CJ. I am not the one constantly advocating to change everything in our society just for the sake of change, pretending to be doing something very important and rescuing someone or something from some terrible and unknown persecution. All societies need tradition. So stop trying to take ours away
Neither am I. But YOU ARE on here spewing some bullshit about tradition and whaaa whaaa.......everybody's picking on me. Put your big boy pants on, wipe your nose and get on with your life.
Do not let the press control you. Government and politicians and multibillion companies like the rotation of conflict that the political cycle perpetuates it enables them to have a new position in which to profit every two years. legacy and legacy related media is the ultimate “shit stirrer” That is the cause.
If you want to see what the Civil War is about, come to my home. My sons are alumni of OSU and UO, and the “brother vs brother” debate is alive and well every Thanksgiving.
Perhaps “Family Feud” would be appropriate.
Happy thanksgiving!
Family Feud is my favorite suggestion so far! It has an authentic feel to it, much like "Civil War" does. Any name created by university administration, media or the state legislature will reek of a marketing slogan and people will never buy into that on a large scale. The authentic origin of the name is why most will always call the game Civil War and will do so with no particular reference to the history of any country in mind.
It’s the Civil War! Those who want to call it something other; go ahead..How many Karen’s read your
articles? History does not change..folks want to change history
to their liking.
I would bet 90% of fans still call it the Civil War...in fact I know that is true outside of the campuses which seem to live in a different world than the rest of the Alumni and fans anyway. It really is ridiculous...but that is the world we live in...especially in this state.
Tremendous insight by Professor Harris. He’s exactly right about a clueless administration.
This will never not be the Civil War to anyone who is 30+ years old
Thank you Bill Harris.
New Hampshire motto on all license plates: Live Free Or Die.
Where was the concept of 'democracy' involved when the name 'Civil War' was expunged by two university presidents? As I recall Ducks and Beavers fans including alumni and alumnae were not given a vote on the matter.
It will always be the Civil War to me. But in the early 70s, the Toilet Bowl was much more appropriate.
I have scanned those box scores closely.
I remember calling it that. I kind of meanly told my Beavers football frat brother he was playing in the Nut Bowl. It would have been tough to play on those mid to late 70s teams
It’ll always be the Civil War to me. Traditions are important & let’s put this in perspective & context. I’m on the side of history believing the Civil War resulted in ending slavery.....& that was a great event in our country’s history! The aforementioned university president is no longer there.
In the now land of politically correct, one must assume both UO & OSU presidents felt pressure to remove that which has existed for a 100 years. "The Civil War". Curious...who or what brought that pressure? Or better, why was the pressure successful? What would have happened to them if they just said "no"?
Yes, if they had said "no", and a little time goes by and a few awesome games are played, would the same social environment and pressure still exist? Time wounds all heels, then they go away to fight other lame wars.
Best to shut the hell up, have fun and watch the best game it's always been - The Civil War!