“When we’re doing a broadcast we’re basically showcasing and celebrating an event,” Papadakis said.
...as he calls the game from afar in Fox's Los Angeles studio. How do you develop a relationship with any of the coaches when you never actually go to any of the games?
For whatever reason FOX just doesn't seem to want to go all-in on FS1/2. Part of the reason, I believe, that events on FS1 do so poorly in the ratings world is the general lack of effort by FOX in both production quality and promotion across their other TV platforms.
HUH??? Half the worlds of business, education, science, everything operate remotely. You think we can't communicate remotely??? Do you get your information and news ONLY in person?
C'mon I agree that these networks should have people there in person. But my guess is MOST of us have no idea where announcers are sitting. CFB and the NFL is squeezing everyone for money so I don't blame them. This is what we get.
I have pretty strong feelings about this. I believe the announcers should be at the game. They should walk the field, feel the weather, OBSERVE the warm ups leading up to the game. See action away from the ball that the cameras do not catch. The FS1 productions seems all too sterile for me. They don't make me feel like I am at the game because the people announcing it are over 1000 miles away.
Honestly both things can be true. As someone who works remotely and has for a long time, now more than ever its so easy to contribute and build relationships remotely. There is no reason they cannot do that.
At the same time though, I absolutely agree, having the announcers at the game calling it live and in person is much better and adds a much better feel to the commentary. Typically they notice a lot of things going on around the field rather than just the point of attack stuff that the cameras catch and I agree, give a better and more rounded and relevant commentary, vs going off of planned sheets, replays and graphics.
It's tough to have sympathy for Fox, the network that just tried to destroy the Pac-12 (and possibly succeeded, jury's still out). They certainly didn't notify anyone in advance that they were about to nuke the conference.
As a coach I have had kids come up and tell me “I can’t go” right before kick off even my own kid. That’s why I have always run both QB at practice, same plays same drills. It has actually won games for me because the other team has only focused on the starter. The Utah coach played it like a fiddle, “these aren’t the droids your looking for”.
I know media like to back up media, but from a fan perspective, it didn't matter to me. In fact, it was nice to see that Petros was just as surprised as I was. It would have bugged me a bit had they been told but not me.
Of course, it has no effect on the game or my enjoyment of it either way, so it's not a big deal either way.
I hope Utah can limp into Eugene with something of a complete roster. That's one of the two remaining "must see" Pac-12 games this season.
FS1 got lazy and didn’t send a sideline reporter. Woulda been nice to have one yesterday! To go along with your theme... FS1 sent their understudy to what deserved a standing ovation on the field.
So FAUX is not willing to invest in their own product, saving $$$ by sending intern camera operators and no live reporters, but they expect everybody else to go out of their way to make their product shine? Can’t have it both ways. That’s not how partnerships work.
A lot of people invest enormous amounts of time and money in the game and the teams, which the coaches And their staffs and the schools benefit from enormously. If honest, open, and complete communication doesn't occur, eventually the investors and customers will and should pull the plug on those huge investments in the hands of individuals who demonstrate they should not be e trusted to make responsible decisions. The notion that they should be free to do whatever they want is preposterous.
Grrrreat insight and background John, thank you. Now is an excellent opportunity for George K., Commissioner to make a "statement", penalize Utah. Like you, Utah is usually a class act, well coached. I might have alittle more leeway if this were a college playoff game, but regular season? Shame of Kyle. Dave M
I think the last thing on coaches mind would be to make sure Fox knows. Sounds like it was a game time decision, if the SID knew he/she might give a courtesy heads up, but did they even know given it was so last minute? Additionally, I have a hard time feeling sorry that Fix was left in the dark given their “lack of commitment” (cameras, off site broadcast) to the production. Non issue IMO.
K Witt is paid to win football games. It's all he cares about and he is probably the most secretive coach in the PAC 12 if not all of college football. He doesn't care about the broadcast team, gamblers or anyone else outside of his team. If someone from FOX, who didn't care enough about the game to even show up in person is offended, he won't feel one bit sorry for them. He left Pullman with a W for his team - and to him that's all that matters. As a fan, if I had to choose between the win or the disclosure, I would choose the win every day of the week and twice on Sunday.
You mean the same rights holder that orchestrated the departure of two teams from the PAC 12 without telling anyone? I get your point, but I don't have much sympathy for FOX after what they did to the conference.
The same obligation the rights holder does to the college team to fulfill their side of the contract, which includes providing all the resources to present the event properly. Fox decided to half ass it to save money thus Whit decided to give them the attention that they requested in their actions. If Fox decided the event did not deserve their full attention why should Whit think the event deserved any of his attention. You think he did not notice there were no announcers there and that the camera crews were extremely young? Obviously Fox did not think the game was that important so Whit decided to concentrate on the game and not the "event".
John, as a guy who wagers (small amounts) on CFB, CFB not having a uniform policy regarding injury reporting is frustrating. I had Utah to cover the -7.5 spread last evening. I never would have made the bet if I knew Rising was not good to go. Get the bet money back? Best of luck.
CFB is a billion dollar+ sport still being run like a corner drug store.
My other beef? Where in the heck were the WSU fans? Another embarrassing look for the Conference of Champions.
Fair enough But as more + more states allow gaming I very much doubt that it will be every woman/man for themself?
This was the manner in which the biggest casino in the world, the NY sock exchange used to run. As did the markets in China in Shanghai and Hong Kong, etc.
But you are correct: Caveat Emptor. Which will do nothing but limit betting on CFB and CBB and popularity of same. There is a reason why the NFL blew by the more popular CFB back when. One of the big reasons is gambling; the NFL knows this which is why there are injury disclosure rules.
The games are not played to provide you a betting platform. The Universities do not care one whit if gamblers are interested or not. Gamblers are parasites that do not contribute to the bottom line of the teams.
I get your emphatically made point. Do you feel the same about NFL games? The NFL owners love that the public has easier access to gaming today.
With NIL and the 'free transfer' rule what is the difference today between CFB and the NFL.
The vast majority of states have legalized gambling in one form or another. I don't think any state is going to return money 'wagered' on the lottery because the folks buying tickets are parasites.
We are getting way off the topic of college football, but I would make one distinction between gambling and the stock market in the US at least (I don't know anything about markets in China or Hong Kong). Gambling, as in casinos or cards or dice is a "zero sum game" meaning that for every dollar won by one party, there is a dollar lost by the opposing party. In stock markets, party A can buy a stock and see it go up in value and sell out. Party B can buy that stock from party A and also see it go up in value and sell it at a profit. There does not necessarily have to be one party losing a dollar for another party to make a dollar. Good luck to you on the next one.
Great take. I lived in Las Vegas and was an associate of a financial institution that funded and served as the depository for the majority of the casinos.
From a casino's POV your comment is spot on. Gaming on sports makes up a small part of casino winnings; the goal when setting any line is to balance the book and assure you will do no worse than capture the 10% vig.
I think in general the topic and I enjoyed John's article very much. was less about football and more about what should and should not be disclosed prior to kick off
It is not per se a zero sum game; otherwise, there would not be casinos lining The Strip. It's about a few folks winning a lot and lots of folks losing a little. The odds are inexorable and unless you play craps and bet 'don't cum' the odds always favor the house.
My point and I respect all those who opine that you roll the dice and it's on you , is that CFB gamblers should have the same disclosure of player eligibility as do those who bet on the NFL.
I could care less about FOX Sports Jr. knowing the pregame line up. Whether Rising starts for Utah or not has little or no effect on the broadcast. It has a big time influence regarding Utah's ability to cover -7.5.
From a zero sum game POV, had I known this before KO I would have hedged my bet and lost the vig and that's it.
All football coaches are the most paranoid bunch in sports, maybe in the world. The NFL will always have rules because they know without gambling and fantasy football they would lose some of their most important customers. Also they would suffer spies, etc. The media spreads enough inaccurate stuff as it is. As a fan and viewer I find it ridiculous that Utah did NOT inform the broadcast crew at least 30 minutes if not hours prior to kick off. Coaches routinely let the broadcasters in on certain game plan items (plays, formations etc) with trust understood. I think Utah owes an explanation. Worse this can lead to even MORE closed door paranoia through out CFB. I can hear rampant" Why should I share info, those guys aren't?.
Great insider story. Those making book would like to have known about Rising before game time. I wondered about the score. I expected Utah to win at WSU. Now it makes sense, with a walk-on QB starting.
Maybe Witt got sidetracked pondering his selections for the next USA Today Coaches Poll. (We know how much research the participating head coaches put into that.) Or perhaps the Utah SID was elbow deep in the press box cold-cut buffet and was temporarily unable to do his job?
“When we’re doing a broadcast we’re basically showcasing and celebrating an event,” Papadakis said.
...as he calls the game from afar in Fox's Los Angeles studio. How do you develop a relationship with any of the coaches when you never actually go to any of the games?
It's a fair point. When you're not present... no sideline reporter... is Utah thinking about you?
For whatever reason FOX just doesn't seem to want to go all-in on FS1/2. Part of the reason, I believe, that events on FS1 do so poorly in the ratings world is the general lack of effort by FOX in both production quality and promotion across their other TV platforms.
HUH??? Half the worlds of business, education, science, everything operate remotely. You think we can't communicate remotely??? Do you get your information and news ONLY in person?
C'mon I agree that these networks should have people there in person. But my guess is MOST of us have no idea where announcers are sitting. CFB and the NFL is squeezing everyone for money so I don't blame them. This is what we get.
I disagree. it's painfully obvious when a game is being called remotely.
Agree. That's why there was so much outrage after the Blazers announced Calabro/Hurd would call road games from a studio, that they switched course.
OK, Hard for me to tell. With crews like the Rod Gilmore crew its hard to see much quality...at least for me
I have pretty strong feelings about this. I believe the announcers should be at the game. They should walk the field, feel the weather, OBSERVE the warm ups leading up to the game. See action away from the ball that the cameras do not catch. The FS1 productions seems all too sterile for me. They don't make me feel like I am at the game because the people announcing it are over 1000 miles away.
Honestly both things can be true. As someone who works remotely and has for a long time, now more than ever its so easy to contribute and build relationships remotely. There is no reason they cannot do that.
At the same time though, I absolutely agree, having the announcers at the game calling it live and in person is much better and adds a much better feel to the commentary. Typically they notice a lot of things going on around the field rather than just the point of attack stuff that the cameras catch and I agree, give a better and more rounded and relevant commentary, vs going off of planned sheets, replays and graphics.
We’re not talking about writing code and project meetings. It’s a sporting event. Very different.
It's tough to have sympathy for Fox, the network that just tried to destroy the Pac-12 (and possibly succeeded, jury's still out). They certainly didn't notify anyone in advance that they were about to nuke the conference.
As a coach I have had kids come up and tell me “I can’t go” right before kick off even my own kid. That’s why I have always run both QB at practice, same plays same drills. It has actually won games for me because the other team has only focused on the starter. The Utah coach played it like a fiddle, “these aren’t the droids your looking for”.
I like Coach Whit too - though what transpired last night seems a bit bush league to me.
Utah is a party to multi million dollar contract negotiations. They have to understand that. What happened was unprofessional and irresponsible.
I know media like to back up media, but from a fan perspective, it didn't matter to me. In fact, it was nice to see that Petros was just as surprised as I was. It would have bugged me a bit had they been told but not me.
Of course, it has no effect on the game or my enjoyment of it either way, so it's not a big deal either way.
I hope Utah can limp into Eugene with something of a complete roster. That's one of the two remaining "must see" Pac-12 games this season.
Sancho, would it have bothered you if you had bet Utah to cover?
No effect on the game? That's ridiculous.
How does FS1 knowing about injuries have an effect on the game?
FS1 got lazy and didn’t send a sideline reporter. Woulda been nice to have one yesterday! To go along with your theme... FS1 sent their understudy to what deserved a standing ovation on the field.
With that said... I agree w all other points JC.
I don't think it's lazy. I think they're saving money.
So FAUX is not willing to invest in their own product, saving $$$ by sending intern camera operators and no live reporters, but they expect everybody else to go out of their way to make their product shine? Can’t have it both ways. That’s not how partnerships work.
A lot of people invest enormous amounts of time and money in the game and the teams, which the coaches And their staffs and the schools benefit from enormously. If honest, open, and complete communication doesn't occur, eventually the investors and customers will and should pull the plug on those huge investments in the hands of individuals who demonstrate they should not be e trusted to make responsible decisions. The notion that they should be free to do whatever they want is preposterous.
Grrrreat insight and background John, thank you. Now is an excellent opportunity for George K., Commissioner to make a "statement", penalize Utah. Like you, Utah is usually a class act, well coached. I might have alittle more leeway if this were a college playoff game, but regular season? Shame of Kyle. Dave M
I think the last thing on coaches mind would be to make sure Fox knows. Sounds like it was a game time decision, if the SID knew he/she might give a courtesy heads up, but did they even know given it was so last minute? Additionally, I have a hard time feeling sorry that Fix was left in the dark given their “lack of commitment” (cameras, off site broadcast) to the production. Non issue IMO.
Love what you are doing John!!
Thanks Jeff.
Petros is on local radio in LA. Funny as hell!He makes fun of his football broadcasts so I can imagine that he really does not give a shit
I think he does a nice job.
K Witt is paid to win football games. It's all he cares about and he is probably the most secretive coach in the PAC 12 if not all of college football. He doesn't care about the broadcast team, gamblers or anyone else outside of his team. If someone from FOX, who didn't care enough about the game to even show up in person is offended, he won't feel one bit sorry for them. He left Pullman with a W for his team - and to him that's all that matters. As a fan, if I had to choose between the win or the disclosure, I would choose the win every day of the week and twice on Sunday.
Agree. He is laser focused. But what obligation does a college team have to a rights holder?
You mean the same rights holder that orchestrated the departure of two teams from the PAC 12 without telling anyone? I get your point, but I don't have much sympathy for FOX after what they did to the conference.
The same obligation the rights holder does to the college team to fulfill their side of the contract, which includes providing all the resources to present the event properly. Fox decided to half ass it to save money thus Whit decided to give them the attention that they requested in their actions. If Fox decided the event did not deserve their full attention why should Whit think the event deserved any of his attention. You think he did not notice there were no announcers there and that the camera crews were extremely young? Obviously Fox did not think the game was that important so Whit decided to concentrate on the game and not the "event".
TV
John, as a guy who wagers (small amounts) on CFB, CFB not having a uniform policy regarding injury reporting is frustrating. I had Utah to cover the -7.5 spread last evening. I never would have made the bet if I knew Rising was not good to go. Get the bet money back? Best of luck.
CFB is a billion dollar+ sport still being run like a corner drug store.
My other beef? Where in the heck were the WSU fans? Another embarrassing look for the Conference of Champions.
That's why it's called GAMBLING Jon.
OK, then why are there reporting regulations in the NFL and on all of the world-wide stock exchanges?
They each have their own rules, which didn't change after you placed your bet, right?
“If you must play, decide upon three things at the start: the rules of the game,
the stakes, and the quitting time.” – Chinese Proverb
Fair enough But as more + more states allow gaming I very much doubt that it will be every woman/man for themself?
This was the manner in which the biggest casino in the world, the NY sock exchange used to run. As did the markets in China in Shanghai and Hong Kong, etc.
But you are correct: Caveat Emptor. Which will do nothing but limit betting on CFB and CBB and popularity of same. There is a reason why the NFL blew by the more popular CFB back when. One of the big reasons is gambling; the NFL knows this which is why there are injury disclosure rules.
The games are not played to provide you a betting platform. The Universities do not care one whit if gamblers are interested or not. Gamblers are parasites that do not contribute to the bottom line of the teams.
I get your emphatically made point. Do you feel the same about NFL games? The NFL owners love that the public has easier access to gaming today.
With NIL and the 'free transfer' rule what is the difference today between CFB and the NFL.
The vast majority of states have legalized gambling in one form or another. I don't think any state is going to return money 'wagered' on the lottery because the folks buying tickets are parasites.
It's 2022 and not 1950.
All the best.
We are getting way off the topic of college football, but I would make one distinction between gambling and the stock market in the US at least (I don't know anything about markets in China or Hong Kong). Gambling, as in casinos or cards or dice is a "zero sum game" meaning that for every dollar won by one party, there is a dollar lost by the opposing party. In stock markets, party A can buy a stock and see it go up in value and sell out. Party B can buy that stock from party A and also see it go up in value and sell it at a profit. There does not necessarily have to be one party losing a dollar for another party to make a dollar. Good luck to you on the next one.
Great take. I lived in Las Vegas and was an associate of a financial institution that funded and served as the depository for the majority of the casinos.
From a casino's POV your comment is spot on. Gaming on sports makes up a small part of casino winnings; the goal when setting any line is to balance the book and assure you will do no worse than capture the 10% vig.
I think in general the topic and I enjoyed John's article very much. was less about football and more about what should and should not be disclosed prior to kick off
It is not per se a zero sum game; otherwise, there would not be casinos lining The Strip. It's about a few folks winning a lot and lots of folks losing a little. The odds are inexorable and unless you play craps and bet 'don't cum' the odds always favor the house.
My point and I respect all those who opine that you roll the dice and it's on you , is that CFB gamblers should have the same disclosure of player eligibility as do those who bet on the NFL.
I could care less about FOX Sports Jr. knowing the pregame line up. Whether Rising starts for Utah or not has little or no effect on the broadcast. It has a big time influence regarding Utah's ability to cover -7.5.
From a zero sum game POV, had I known this before KO I would have hedged my bet and lost the vig and that's it.
Again, love the comment and all the best.
Utah hasnt covered basically all year on the road except against the Sun Devils. I would have taken Wazzou in this one at Pullman.
Utah was favored to win against Florida, UCLA. All wins for the underdog on the road.
Favored against USC -3.5. Win for the underdog at SLC.
Covered against ASU (road), the Beavers, SUU and SDSU (all at home).
1-3 against the spread on the road.
Utah was 1-2 ATS on the road as a favorite before the game.
It was thirsty Thursday up there, wasn’t it ?
College students can't figure out how to get alcohol into the stadium?
All football coaches are the most paranoid bunch in sports, maybe in the world. The NFL will always have rules because they know without gambling and fantasy football they would lose some of their most important customers. Also they would suffer spies, etc. The media spreads enough inaccurate stuff as it is. As a fan and viewer I find it ridiculous that Utah did NOT inform the broadcast crew at least 30 minutes if not hours prior to kick off. Coaches routinely let the broadcasters in on certain game plan items (plays, formations etc) with trust understood. I think Utah owes an explanation. Worse this can lead to even MORE closed door paranoia through out CFB. I can hear rampant" Why should I share info, those guys aren't?.
Great insider story. Those making book would like to have known about Rising before game time. I wondered about the score. I expected Utah to win at WSU. Now it makes sense, with a walk-on QB starting.
Maybe Witt got sidetracked pondering his selections for the next USA Today Coaches Poll. (We know how much research the participating head coaches put into that.) Or perhaps the Utah SID was elbow deep in the press box cold-cut buffet and was temporarily unable to do his job?
Blind-siding works both ways... maybe the network will down play Utah the
next time they telecast one of their games.