If in fact this deal encompasses a substantial streaming component the delay could be due to the uniqueness of the deal. The PAC and whatever other partner involved would be breaking new contractual ground here. Could be contributing to this delay.
Feb 13, 2023·edited Feb 14, 2023Liked by John Canzano
There is no spinning a pause in a deal negotiation because your product isn't clearing market at an acceptable rate, and you need to retool your lineup/team. If everyone wants it to happen, it will still happen, but GK oughta be leery of getting cute with unproven media partners just to try and make the outcome look less bad. He has created a credibility wound that no feasible outcome will fix, so he'd be wise to get it done and try to restore his stature another way.
It would be a travesty to lose the Conference of Champions. As a UW alum it's enticing to wish for Oregon and UW to make the leap to the Big 10, but challenging on so many levels.
Also (in my limited capacity of a brain) why wouldn't UNLV be on the list? It's a large market and only getting exponentially larger. There is a vast sea of money in that town. Fans travel to LV. Although the school is not to the level of a Pac 10 school - I would argue neither was Utah. And Utah has become a prominent player in the conference today.
Houston TV I get. Academics I could care less. Stanford has no shot to be competitive in the Moneyball sports.
The media is not coming with cash because of academics. If such was the case The Ivy League would have the largest TV contracts.
Academics is the BS that stopped the Pac-12 from going to the Pac-20 and killing off a P5 competitor. The hypocritical president of SC was the person leading the charge against expansion.
UTSA won the CUSA in 2022 and is moving up to the AAC. Rice? When is the last time it won anything important in the Moneyball sports?
Please make no mistake I respect you and your comments but today is a Darwinian struggle for the athletic fittest.
YOU may not care. But the Presidents do. They make the decisions. And let's not forget Stanford football was pretty darned good a few years back. As for Cal, they should be a lot better. Poor management.
I think this is a well-timed message. I've been digesting all the news I can get on the topic of Pac-12 expansion and survival for the past several days. Since the Big 12 announced the early exits of Texas and Oklahoma, the Big 12 commissioner has been jumping up and down about how they are about to expand to 16 teams and the Pac-12 is where they are going shopping. His media allies have been parroting that narrative non-stop. YouTubers, podcasters at twits are pushing the Pac-12 destruction narrative, too. In the past several days I have read the following in no particular order:
1. The Big 12 is in serious talks with the four corners schools (ASU, Arizona, Utah, Colorado)
2. Arizona State is very unhappy and will probably be the first to bolt.
3. The Pac-12 media negotiations are a disaster and each school will get $7 million less than the Big 12 schools got with their media deal.
4. Oregon and Washington are on the table to move to the Big 12 as well.
5. The Big 12 outflanked the Pac-12.
6. Brett Yormark outsmarted George Kliavkoff.
7. George Kliavkoff "overpromised" the Pac-12 presidents what he could get for each school.
8. The recent meeting of the Pac-12 presidents was a total disaster. Two schools wanted bigger pieces of the pie.
John, I have relied on your reporting to comfort my nerves. I don't believe these poorly-sourced rumors from the Big 12 media types. But they are difficult to read, nontheless.
I for one appreciate the announcement from the Pac-12.
I agree with your comments. The Big-12 and their media talking heads remind me of punks/bullies in school who never picked on the big boys (the SEC, Big10). Lowlife cowards. I dont mind the Big-12 as much since it is business. CBS sports and some other media outlets always trashing the Pac make me think their journalistic integrity is zero.
Big 12 guys just can't accept these two leagues are just not a good fit with each other. It really pains them. It's downright silly.
A deal will be done when it's done
What I do know is streaming will eventually take over. I think its a little early, but maybe it starts increasing. Fact remains is broadcast is failing all over. RSNs are bankrupt, and MLB is going to take over (probably) and stream. ESPN is shifting more and more to ESPN +., NBC shut down its sports channel
I'm curious why you think this. Is it pure West Coast elitism? Because the Pac12 might have a few academically superior institutions, but the rest are similar to the Big 12's state schools. Are Texas and Florida and surrounding areas lower class than Utah or Eastern Washington? I think a full Pac12/Big12 merger would be amazing! It'd be by far the best basketball conference and close to on par for football. The only reason to be against it, and it seems the tone of your post, is snobbery.
In the Pac 12 most of the schools see academics first, and arhletics second. It's that simple.
Strong academics is important. Academics wuth high research and innovation
Add in the politics, culture issues and its not a good fit for most Big 12 schools. I mean, some of the Big 12 states are highly prejudicial towards certain groups, including gay and lesbian, and some races. The whole abortion issue is far apart as well.
It's really that simple
If the goal was to make money and increase team weakth then that's totally different. The goal of academics is to educate. And academic people run the place.
That the Pac12 is looking at SMU and SDSU totally blows your reasoning. Neither are academic powerhouses or meet the political purity standard you seem to espouse.
I went to Baylor, I know what SMU is. It's no academic powerhouse. It's a tiny, old southern money, conservative Texas bastion that spits out lawyers and golddiggers. SDSU is toward the bottom of your graphic with Oregon State and Washington State. Sure, Stanford and Cal are elite US universities. If their goal is academics and research, perhaps they should join the Ivy League.
The entire media world missed the USC/UCLA departure story until about a day before the announcement. I expect we'll learn of the new TV contract on a similar timetable (even though that is far more positive news to leak).
The league has now gone on record saying something is close. That's a positive. I'd love to see the Pac-12 sign a rights deal that's superior to the Big 12, and tell that league to back the h*** off.
And I still think SDSU and UNLV are the best candidates for expansion, in about 2025. Keep the league's footprint completely in the West (or Mountain West). Not friggin' Texas.
Maybe in 2 years it will go further. UNLV is not a top TV market, is a small city, but growing. It's also oversatutated in pro sports right now and is courting the A's
John ~ what seems to be overlooked here is the big change in Disney and how “”new” CEO Iger views ESPN. He clearly doesn’t see it as necessary for the growth of Disney. He has not only changed the ESPN management structure but has spun it off to a step child status. I wonder if it is possible for anyone to successfully negotiate with the new ESPN today. Many new people now in charge with a boss saying make it more profitable or I will sell it.
Get a deal done. Amen! Until a deal is finalized talking, positive and negative is cheap.
Leaving Fresno and UNLV 'unguarded is IMO a mistake, Adding only 1 school in the central time zone is a mistake. UTSA resides in a terrific and untapped market. Tulane brings a decent-sized market with New Orleans and also has respectable academics.
But I think it today's day and age of CFB/CBB money trumps academics.
"Invest your energy elsewhere" is insulting. I would say keep investing your energy exactly here, JC. These topics matter to us fans and alumni a helluva lot and 4 Corners dude should understand that. And keep his or her advice on how media should conduct their business to themselves.
Losing the LA schools is akin to the movie and TV industry losing Hollywood. Our prestige as Power 5 conference has taken a huge hit. So like any other industry, you rebuild based on potential markets and try not to make the same idiotic mistakes that got you here. There is not another LA TV marketplace in America. Take the growing markets of San Diego, Las Vegas, Dallas-Ft. worth and the Fresno-Sacramento valley.
You put too much of in the LA market... They don't watch sports, live or on TV, like most of the country. We have too much to do here for most people to even care.
If in fact this deal encompasses a substantial streaming component the delay could be due to the uniqueness of the deal. The PAC and whatever other partner involved would be breaking new contractual ground here. Could be contributing to this delay.
John, I do love your commitment to being the finger on the pulse here. Sourced and accurate. Thank you.
I fall in the SHOW ME category. Nothing to report until there is something to report.
Everything I hear coming out of the BIG12 media types is mostly opinion and hearsay. Unfortunately most can't differentiate between that and news.
John, your energy and rock turning on this very important topic is certainly appreciated by this subscriber, thank you
Thank you Matt.
“The Waiting is the Hardest Part,” -Tom Petty
Whoa, only a big Petty fan pulls that one out of the deep tracks! Underrated song...
I just rewatched his Super Bowl performance yesterday!
I probably couldn't get through it without a tear. Miss that guy so much.
How do you ask a question in the hopes it ends up in the Saturday mailbag
Yeah, how do you get to the mailbag?
Seems like you intake from twits, But what If I don't tweet?
From your takes here Pedro I knew you are too intelligent to twit.
There is no spinning a pause in a deal negotiation because your product isn't clearing market at an acceptable rate, and you need to retool your lineup/team. If everyone wants it to happen, it will still happen, but GK oughta be leery of getting cute with unproven media partners just to try and make the outcome look less bad. He has created a credibility wound that no feasible outcome will fix, so he'd be wise to get it done and try to restore his stature another way.
As usual John you are the level head in the room! Hope this pans out well for all of us!
Thanks TJ.
Well... I’m reassured. Glad the Conference’s generic language could keep me from panicking about its future.
It would be a travesty to lose the Conference of Champions. As a UW alum it's enticing to wish for Oregon and UW to make the leap to the Big 10, but challenging on so many levels.
Also (in my limited capacity of a brain) why wouldn't UNLV be on the list? It's a large market and only getting exponentially larger. There is a vast sea of money in that town. Fans travel to LV. Although the school is not to the level of a Pac 10 school - I would argue neither was Utah. And Utah has become a prominent player in the conference today.
Sponsorship money is there. TV market is < 800k households but growing.
If they go to 14, UNLV and Rice?
RICE? Instead of UTSA or Tulane? Teams that win games. Rice would flounder in Texas like CAL/Stanford are floundering in California.
The San Antonio market is far less tapped out than the Houston market where Rice comes in after A+M, Texas, and Houston.
Two reasons: Houston TV sets and academics on par with Stanford.
Houston TV I get. Academics I could care less. Stanford has no shot to be competitive in the Moneyball sports.
The media is not coming with cash because of academics. If such was the case The Ivy League would have the largest TV contracts.
Academics is the BS that stopped the Pac-12 from going to the Pac-20 and killing off a P5 competitor. The hypocritical president of SC was the person leading the charge against expansion.
UTSA won the CUSA in 2022 and is moving up to the AAC. Rice? When is the last time it won anything important in the Moneyball sports?
Please make no mistake I respect you and your comments but today is a Darwinian struggle for the athletic fittest.
Realize in the Pac 12 education comes first. That's just reality
YOU may not care. But the Presidents do. They make the decisions. And let's not forget Stanford football was pretty darned good a few years back. As for Cal, they should be a lot better. Poor management.
Let's hope not!
I think this is a well-timed message. I've been digesting all the news I can get on the topic of Pac-12 expansion and survival for the past several days. Since the Big 12 announced the early exits of Texas and Oklahoma, the Big 12 commissioner has been jumping up and down about how they are about to expand to 16 teams and the Pac-12 is where they are going shopping. His media allies have been parroting that narrative non-stop. YouTubers, podcasters at twits are pushing the Pac-12 destruction narrative, too. In the past several days I have read the following in no particular order:
1. The Big 12 is in serious talks with the four corners schools (ASU, Arizona, Utah, Colorado)
2. Arizona State is very unhappy and will probably be the first to bolt.
3. The Pac-12 media negotiations are a disaster and each school will get $7 million less than the Big 12 schools got with their media deal.
4. Oregon and Washington are on the table to move to the Big 12 as well.
5. The Big 12 outflanked the Pac-12.
6. Brett Yormark outsmarted George Kliavkoff.
7. George Kliavkoff "overpromised" the Pac-12 presidents what he could get for each school.
8. The recent meeting of the Pac-12 presidents was a total disaster. Two schools wanted bigger pieces of the pie.
John, I have relied on your reporting to comfort my nerves. I don't believe these poorly-sourced rumors from the Big 12 media types. But they are difficult to read, nontheless.
I for one appreciate the announcement from the Pac-12.
I agree with your comments. The Big-12 and their media talking heads remind me of punks/bullies in school who never picked on the big boys (the SEC, Big10). Lowlife cowards. I dont mind the Big-12 as much since it is business. CBS sports and some other media outlets always trashing the Pac make me think their journalistic integrity is zero.
Hoping the truth all comes out soon.
Good take but I am pointing my finger at FOX as enemy number 1.
The Athletic seems pretty level headed but it’s Dennis Dodd’s reporting that reads like pure propaganda for the Big 12.
Big 12 guys just can't accept these two leagues are just not a good fit with each other. It really pains them. It's downright silly.
A deal will be done when it's done
What I do know is streaming will eventually take over. I think its a little early, but maybe it starts increasing. Fact remains is broadcast is failing all over. RSNs are bankrupt, and MLB is going to take over (probably) and stream. ESPN is shifting more and more to ESPN +., NBC shut down its sports channel
Pac 12 may be cutting edge, or it may not be.
Ww will find out soon
I'm curious why you think this. Is it pure West Coast elitism? Because the Pac12 might have a few academically superior institutions, but the rest are similar to the Big 12's state schools. Are Texas and Florida and surrounding areas lower class than Utah or Eastern Washington? I think a full Pac12/Big12 merger would be amazing! It'd be by far the best basketball conference and close to on par for football. The only reason to be against it, and it seems the tone of your post, is snobbery.
In the Pac 12 most of the schools see academics first, and arhletics second. It's that simple.
Strong academics is important. Academics wuth high research and innovation
Add in the politics, culture issues and its not a good fit for most Big 12 schools. I mean, some of the Big 12 states are highly prejudicial towards certain groups, including gay and lesbian, and some races. The whole abortion issue is far apart as well.
It's really that simple
If the goal was to make money and increase team weakth then that's totally different. The goal of academics is to educate. And academic people run the place.
That the Pac12 is looking at SMU and SDSU totally blows your reasoning. Neither are academic powerhouses or meet the political purity standard you seem to espouse.
This chart sums up a lot
https://twitter.com/TJAltimore/status/1624771235849637888
And compares the academic standing of all current Pac 12, Big 12 and prospective members.
Might want to take a look at the actual facts on SMU and even SDSU
I went to Baylor, I know what SMU is. It's no academic powerhouse. It's a tiny, old southern money, conservative Texas bastion that spits out lawyers and golddiggers. SDSU is toward the bottom of your graphic with Oregon State and Washington State. Sure, Stanford and Cal are elite US universities. If their goal is academics and research, perhaps they should join the Ivy League.
ASU with its president Crow who was Larry's largest enabler is 'not happy?' Too bad.
ASU has been a sleeping giant longer than Rip Van Winkle's nap.
The entire media world missed the USC/UCLA departure story until about a day before the announcement. I expect we'll learn of the new TV contract on a similar timetable (even though that is far more positive news to leak).
The league has now gone on record saying something is close. That's a positive. I'd love to see the Pac-12 sign a rights deal that's superior to the Big 12, and tell that league to back the h*** off.
And I still think SDSU and UNLV are the best candidates for expansion, in about 2025. Keep the league's footprint completely in the West (or Mountain West). Not friggin' Texas.
I do think the Pac-12 will beat the Big 12's number... but it will have to include the Pac-12 Networks.
which means the pac 12 networks play where? Amazon?
Amazon, ESPN+, or maybe Peacock, Paramount. A streamer is likely
Its going to be SDSU and SMU.
Maybe in 2 years it will go further. UNLV is not a top TV market, is a small city, but growing. It's also oversatutated in pro sports right now and is courting the A's
Youtube has 14 sports channels, maybe they want to add a college football conference...
Also I wonder if the media is trying to negotiate remote broadcasting for most games.
John ~ what seems to be overlooked here is the big change in Disney and how “”new” CEO Iger views ESPN. He clearly doesn’t see it as necessary for the growth of Disney. He has not only changed the ESPN management structure but has spun it off to a step child status. I wonder if it is possible for anyone to successfully negotiate with the new ESPN today. Many new people now in charge with a boss saying make it more profitable or I will sell it.
Get a deal done. Amen! Until a deal is finalized talking, positive and negative is cheap.
Leaving Fresno and UNLV 'unguarded is IMO a mistake, Adding only 1 school in the central time zone is a mistake. UTSA resides in a terrific and untapped market. Tulane brings a decent-sized market with New Orleans and also has respectable academics.
But I think it today's day and age of CFB/CBB money trumps academics.
"Invest your energy elsewhere" is insulting. I would say keep investing your energy exactly here, JC. These topics matter to us fans and alumni a helluva lot and 4 Corners dude should understand that. And keep his or her advice on how media should conduct their business to themselves.
Losing the LA schools is akin to the movie and TV industry losing Hollywood. Our prestige as Power 5 conference has taken a huge hit. So like any other industry, you rebuild based on potential markets and try not to make the same idiotic mistakes that got you here. There is not another LA TV marketplace in America. Take the growing markets of San Diego, Las Vegas, Dallas-Ft. worth and the Fresno-Sacramento valley.
You put too much of in the LA market... They don't watch sports, live or on TV, like most of the country. We have too much to do here for most people to even care.