I thought the blown call on the spot of the OSU drive on Oregon's 5 yard line at the end of the half was huge, and turned the momentum of the game at that point. Inexcusable
It was a bad call. There were several in the game. I could live with them if I knew the system was airtight and it was just human error. But I suspect about 25 percent of the errors -- and some of the big ones -- could be erased.
Enough of the “they wanted Oregon (or any team) to win.” THAT DOES NOT HAPPEN!
Yes, there were calls and situations in Corvallis (I was there) Saturday, and all season long, that at times defy reality. It has been an issue for several years with conference football officiating.
There are many reasons why, from lack of oversight and training, continuity, lack of a “minor league” feeder system, a pre-conceived notion that it’s the PAC 12 so of course they’re wrong, and yes, human error.
One of the reasons I didn’t list is “conference wanted (blank) to win.”
Anyone who thinks someone from the PAC 12 front office tells their officials to make sure (blank) wins, obviously doesn’t have a clue how any of this works.
I’m a lifelong Duck fan that watch the officials as much as I do the game. I always defend officials as best I can. Why? Because I’ve been there. Not major college football, but believe me, I know the pressure and how challenging officiating can be working 37 years in professional baseball.
I also think there is, like John has said repeatedly, some kind of a systemic problem in how officials are recruited, trained, supervised, and evaluated in the PAC 12.
I hope there are questions and answers tomorrow concerning the officiating program. I hope the commissioner understands how the need to overall the officiating department is vital to not only getting a more accurate and consistent officiated game on the field, but also a more positive perception.
The on field improvement can improve rather quickly if a robust supervision and support system is implemented.
The poor perception of PAC 12 football officials will take more time.
That was subject to video review. The on field call was indisputably wrong. Yet they confirmed it. Sorry. Will have to apply Occam’s Razor. The simplest explanation is the likely explanation. Whoever reviewed that video was either blind or biased towards Oregon. Change my mind.
Obviously I can’t, you already have determined the officials are biased.
Yes, it was confirmed by video replay, to the astonishment of most everyone.
But instead of concluding that it was a blind, biased official and calling it a day, I would like to know the thought process and explanation of why that was his conclusion.
Is there something that we’re not privy to, to come to that conclusion? Was there an issue with the equipment while watching the angles they had in replay?
Whatever is said (or not said) about that call, this is way more than a few hurt feelings from fans in one particular game. This is a PAC 12 conference wide problem that needs to be discussed and addressed.
If it walks like a duck and and talks like a duck. It’s a duck If this was a court of law that video would seal the deal in favor of the BEAVS . Ever had to do a deposition? Video is powerful wvidence.
Someone in the office is corrupt. More than likely working with with one ref.
It is not a Ducks vs Beavers thing
It is all about the offs. And big time gambling. And corrupt officials and bribery. .They got caught and are trying to rationalize it.
The play was replayed nationally on TV with closeups. That is so convenient for you to say you had to be there. I was there, watching on TV, with closeups from many angles. How is it better to be in the stands watching the play and the spot? It isn't. You need to stop rattling your keyboard and think
ok, so I have been talking with some of my college official friends and I think in this play in question the Linesman to that side of the play was in error because he did not follow proper mechanics.
I had thought that the wing officials are taught to move straight to the goal line when ever the ball is at the 5 yard line or in. That is true UNLESS there is a line to gain before the goal line.
during this play you will see the linesman should have held the line of scrimmage or go NO FURTHER than the Line to GAIN and then mirror the runner to the goal line. Because the linesman was at the goal line when the runner was met at the line of scrimmage there was no way to get a good spot.
so they reverted to instant replay but the problem with instant replay is very often the angle and so the it can play tricks with us.
I hope this helps but I think the problem with PAC 12 officials is not one of character or bias but probably training and mechanics.
Plays tricks with us? That is way too ambiguous. They rely on replay for so many other decisions. I worked in a replay center for MLB and the NFLbefore we were allowed to use it as proof. Replay is easy to understand and the tech today is way better than it was when I was in the biz
yeah, that one was flat out inexcusable being CONFIRMED. Anyone with eyes could tell it was flat out wrong. You want to argue it stands, fine, then its just another bad call but with all the focus on evidence when confirming things, to confirm that just makes the whole review thing an absolute joke. Why even review at that point, which JS basically confirmed they didnt really bother and it was decided before they even got to the monitor.
That is a perfect example of control from an outside source. Follow the money. Organized crime has become embedded in our sports culture.
It happened in Europe. It happens in every pro sport around the world.it is not all Mafioso influence. The deals around the world are rife with bribery. Corruption keeps us safe. It also
This reminds of a saying I had in the workplace. The only thing worse than training someone and have them leave, is to not train them and have them stay. So why is the PAC 12 concerned about the Big10 poaching officials. Create a trained pipeline and having a few good ones leave won’t be a problem.
In a meritocracy these rules would never be uttered
1. Officials can’t work the championship game two years in a row.
2. First-year officials are not eligible to work the game.
In a kakistocracy, they make perfect sense and preserve the current state of officiating in the PAC 12. Unbelievable that they continue to embrace a system that delivers poor results. TRY SOMETING NEW PAC 12!
Not that I disagree but do you think those are new rules? I bet they are left over from Larry Scott, not that they cant be changed, but I assume there is more to it than just MR K. just saying hey you do this now, not the least of which would be adding more chaos to an already mind bending situation the conference is in.
Do you think you will actually be allowed to ask your questions, John? Pin them down on the horrible calls during the Civil War. Will they even say if there are any consequences for sub par officiating? My understanding, according to their 'transparency' protocol, they must address the issue of blown calls that can affect the outcome of a football game.
So let me get this straight...if the best officials in the Pac 12 officiated the game last year...it's probable, in fact likely, that many of these same officials graded out tops this year...but they can't go because why? F**k fairness! What kind of a circus are we running here?
The Apple Cup this year was one of the worst officiated games I’ve ever seen. Fortunately it seemed to impact both teams equally, but it was embarrassingly bad. The questions I would ask are, “What is your specific plan going forward to improve the poor officiating? What are the root causes and how do you plan to address them?”
Merton Hanks has been in charge of this for over two years now, so one could argue he’s a big part of the problem, and if he doesn’t have a credible improvement plan, it’s time to find someone who does.
Officials on the field will make mistakes, but isn’t that why the replay system was put in place?
The PAC 12 should fully explain why, with replay, they didn’t correct the spot and both the how and why the white hat claimed the spot was “confirmed”. This was a 2+ foot obvious “discrepancy”, and their failure to properly spot the ball for the next play did affect the the game. It appeared that this crew was more focused on speed and the reviews seemed cursory, imho. Has there been some recent emphasis to speed of replay reviews by the PAC 12?
I guess my point is that if replay isn’t used properly, why have it at all?
Lastly, a minor issue, but this was a nationally televised game by ABC. I am curious why there was no former expert official included with the broadcast team.
with all the betting going on, what is to keep a 'connected person' contacting a vital player, like a long snapper or punter/kicker and give them an 'incentive' to accidentally make a mistake at a critical time.
Where big money is involved there will be people willing to do anything to get an edge. The rah rah days are long gone. It’s all, “show me the money” now.
These are deep, dangerous waters for the PAC. The GK/MH duo needs to get this and a fair few other things right. Let's go, guys. You've got the mettle; time to show it.
Thank you John. They also need to change video reviews. Let a coach toss the red flag once a game on any play for “non-reviewable” plays. If not overturned they lose a down or get a 10 yard penalty. I’m amazed at some bad calls that can’t be overturned now with no review allowed. Keep up the good work and pressure on the league.
The present “kinder, gentler” style of football that has developed over the years, designed by rule to protect players, has made an official’s job almost impossible, not to mention extremely subjective. The difference between a hard, “legal” hit and calling targeting or a personal foul is tough to discern in today’s game.
Now, as far as dumb*ss attacks like poor spots, clock mis-management, “gee, what down is it?”, to name a few, are atrocious, embarrassing, unacceptable, and unprofessional. Too much depends upon an official’s competency and ability to control the game transparently for this to continue.
Lot’s of discussion going on. Should be interesting to watch the process unfold.
After that call was confirmed during the civil war, all I can picture is the the replay guy sitting in the booth looking like mel brooks as the governor in blazing saddles.
what the over/under on there just not being officials because they lost track of the date for the game or spotted it 3 days short and mis booked their tickets?
You have said multiple times now that the replay command center has issues and that you have been there. What are the issues? It seemed clear to me at the game on the video board and on the tv when I watched it again at home.
The PAC-12 really needs to bring back Tony Corrente (or someone of his stature and experience) to take over the officiating and oversee a major overhaul. Hanks probably needs to be let go, or told to not have anything to do with the officiating, and Kliavkoff should step back and let the pros handle officiating.
I have noticed on big plays that a lot of players refrain from even celebrating too much before they look back and look around and make sure there isn’t some BS flag thrown to ruin everything
Those are two incredibly stupid exceptions. The best officials should be at the Championship game.
That being said, there should be per game wages for each official PLUS a pool of bonus money that should be split annually per week [to reward the best-performing crews each week] & at year end (to reward the highest-rated AND the best-improved [from last year, over time, or whatever rubric makes sense] splitting the bonus money] individual officials). This would incent the best officials to stay and newer officials to get better at their jobs.
As far as other conferences "poaching" the best officials, why should this be surprising? The entire college football system is being driven by money. Memo to the Pac-12 management: find more money to fund your officiating system! Since King Scott and his wasteful bureaucracy has seemingly been overthrown, take some of the 1/13th share of revenue that the league used to claim and re-purpose it towards bulking up the officiating compensation pool.
I thought the blown call on the spot of the OSU drive on Oregon's 5 yard line at the end of the half was huge, and turned the momentum of the game at that point. Inexcusable
It was a bad call. There were several in the game. I could live with them if I knew the system was airtight and it was just human error. But I suspect about 25 percent of the errors -- and some of the big ones -- could be erased.
But that call was REVIEWED. Not just a bad call. That was intentional in my opinion. The league wanted Oregon to win.
Enough of the “they wanted Oregon (or any team) to win.” THAT DOES NOT HAPPEN!
Yes, there were calls and situations in Corvallis (I was there) Saturday, and all season long, that at times defy reality. It has been an issue for several years with conference football officiating.
There are many reasons why, from lack of oversight and training, continuity, lack of a “minor league” feeder system, a pre-conceived notion that it’s the PAC 12 so of course they’re wrong, and yes, human error.
One of the reasons I didn’t list is “conference wanted (blank) to win.”
Anyone who thinks someone from the PAC 12 front office tells their officials to make sure (blank) wins, obviously doesn’t have a clue how any of this works.
I’m a lifelong Duck fan that watch the officials as much as I do the game. I always defend officials as best I can. Why? Because I’ve been there. Not major college football, but believe me, I know the pressure and how challenging officiating can be working 37 years in professional baseball.
I also think there is, like John has said repeatedly, some kind of a systemic problem in how officials are recruited, trained, supervised, and evaluated in the PAC 12.
I hope there are questions and answers tomorrow concerning the officiating program. I hope the commissioner understands how the need to overall the officiating department is vital to not only getting a more accurate and consistent officiated game on the field, but also a more positive perception.
The on field improvement can improve rather quickly if a robust supervision and support system is implemented.
The poor perception of PAC 12 football officials will take more time.
That was subject to video review. The on field call was indisputably wrong. Yet they confirmed it. Sorry. Will have to apply Occam’s Razor. The simplest explanation is the likely explanation. Whoever reviewed that video was either blind or biased towards Oregon. Change my mind.
Obviously I can’t, you already have determined the officials are biased.
Yes, it was confirmed by video replay, to the astonishment of most everyone.
But instead of concluding that it was a blind, biased official and calling it a day, I would like to know the thought process and explanation of why that was his conclusion.
Is there something that we’re not privy to, to come to that conclusion? Was there an issue with the equipment while watching the angles they had in replay?
Whatever is said (or not said) about that call, this is way more than a few hurt feelings from fans in one particular game. This is a PAC 12 conference wide problem that needs to be discussed and addressed.
If it walks like a duck and and talks like a duck. It’s a duck If this was a court of law that video would seal the deal in favor of the BEAVS . Ever had to do a deposition? Video is powerful wvidence.
Someone in the office is corrupt. More than likely working with with one ref.
It is not a Ducks vs Beavers thing
It is all about the offs. And big time gambling. And corrupt officials and bribery. .They got caught and are trying to rationalize it.
Good suggestions from someone who has been there and not just rattling their keyboard.
The play was replayed nationally on TV with closeups. That is so convenient for you to say you had to be there. I was there, watching on TV, with closeups from many angles. How is it better to be in the stands watching the play and the spot? It isn't. You need to stop rattling your keyboard and think
So are you saying that all officials are clean? There is no corruption? You would be wrong.
ok, so I have been talking with some of my college official friends and I think in this play in question the Linesman to that side of the play was in error because he did not follow proper mechanics.
I had thought that the wing officials are taught to move straight to the goal line when ever the ball is at the 5 yard line or in. That is true UNLESS there is a line to gain before the goal line.
during this play you will see the linesman should have held the line of scrimmage or go NO FURTHER than the Line to GAIN and then mirror the runner to the goal line. Because the linesman was at the goal line when the runner was met at the line of scrimmage there was no way to get a good spot.
so they reverted to instant replay but the problem with instant replay is very often the angle and so the it can play tricks with us.
I hope this helps but I think the problem with PAC 12 officials is not one of character or bias but probably training and mechanics.
Plays tricks with us? That is way too ambiguous. They rely on replay for so many other decisions. I worked in a replay center for MLB and the NFLbefore we were allowed to use it as proof. Replay is easy to understand and the tech today is way better than it was when I was in the biz
yeah, that one was flat out inexcusable being CONFIRMED. Anyone with eyes could tell it was flat out wrong. You want to argue it stands, fine, then its just another bad call but with all the focus on evidence when confirming things, to confirm that just makes the whole review thing an absolute joke. Why even review at that point, which JS basically confirmed they didnt really bother and it was decided before they even got to the monitor.
That is a perfect example of control from an outside source. Follow the money. Organized crime has become embedded in our sports culture.
It happened in Europe. It happens in every pro sport around the world.it is not all Mafioso influence. The deals around the world are rife with bribery. Corruption keeps us safe. It also
kills institutional morality and integrity.
That is corruption
This reminds of a saying I had in the workplace. The only thing worse than training someone and have them leave, is to not train them and have them stay. So why is the PAC 12 concerned about the Big10 poaching officials. Create a trained pipeline and having a few good ones leave won’t be a problem.
Agree with this.
In a meritocracy these rules would never be uttered
1. Officials can’t work the championship game two years in a row.
2. First-year officials are not eligible to work the game.
In a kakistocracy, they make perfect sense and preserve the current state of officiating in the PAC 12. Unbelievable that they continue to embrace a system that delivers poor results. TRY SOMETING NEW PAC 12!
Yeah... this game shouldn't be a "reward" for long-time officials who are "pretty good." It should be a reward for the best.
Yes, exactly! Those two rules are so dumb, yet a very PAC-12 thing to do.
Great point.
The conference that time after time evidences 'we have met the enemy and they are us.'
Not that I disagree but do you think those are new rules? I bet they are left over from Larry Scott, not that they cant be changed, but I assume there is more to it than just MR K. just saying hey you do this now, not the least of which would be adding more chaos to an already mind bending situation the conference is in.
I agree. Needs to be fixed.
Do you think you will actually be allowed to ask your questions, John? Pin them down on the horrible calls during the Civil War. Will they even say if there are any consequences for sub par officiating? My understanding, according to their 'transparency' protocol, they must address the issue of blown calls that can affect the outcome of a football game.
I will ask.
So let me get this straight...if the best officials in the Pac 12 officiated the game last year...it's probable, in fact likely, that many of these same officials graded out tops this year...but they can't go because why? F**k fairness! What kind of a circus are we running here?
The Apple Cup this year was one of the worst officiated games I’ve ever seen. Fortunately it seemed to impact both teams equally, but it was embarrassingly bad. The questions I would ask are, “What is your specific plan going forward to improve the poor officiating? What are the root causes and how do you plan to address them?”
Merton Hanks has been in charge of this for over two years now, so one could argue he’s a big part of the problem, and if he doesn’t have a credible improvement plan, it’s time to find someone who does.
I think there were several games. I'd like to see Corrente come back.
Officials on the field will make mistakes, but isn’t that why the replay system was put in place?
The PAC 12 should fully explain why, with replay, they didn’t correct the spot and both the how and why the white hat claimed the spot was “confirmed”. This was a 2+ foot obvious “discrepancy”, and their failure to properly spot the ball for the next play did affect the the game. It appeared that this crew was more focused on speed and the reviews seemed cursory, imho. Has there been some recent emphasis to speed of replay reviews by the PAC 12?
I guess my point is that if replay isn’t used properly, why have it at all?
Lastly, a minor issue, but this was a nationally televised game by ABC. I am curious why there was no former expert official included with the broadcast team.
I think some of the errors could be rectified.
I would REALLY like to believe the games are on the level.
As an Oregon State fan, this is increasingly difficult.
with all the betting going on, what is to keep a 'connected person' contacting a vital player, like a long snapper or punter/kicker and give them an 'incentive' to accidentally make a mistake at a critical time.
Nothing. That is why it is true.
There are dirty refs and dirty players and dirty coaches
Where big money is involved there will be people willing to do anything to get an edge. The rah rah days are long gone. It’s all, “show me the money” now.
Yup. Hate to admit that but you are spot on.
Many games in the Power 5 ate not on the level
These are deep, dangerous waters for the PAC. The GK/MH duo needs to get this and a fair few other things right. Let's go, guys. You've got the mettle; time to show it.
Thank you John. They also need to change video reviews. Let a coach toss the red flag once a game on any play for “non-reviewable” plays. If not overturned they lose a down or get a 10 yard penalty. I’m amazed at some bad calls that can’t be overturned now with no review allowed. Keep up the good work and pressure on the league.
The present “kinder, gentler” style of football that has developed over the years, designed by rule to protect players, has made an official’s job almost impossible, not to mention extremely subjective. The difference between a hard, “legal” hit and calling targeting or a personal foul is tough to discern in today’s game.
Now, as far as dumb*ss attacks like poor spots, clock mis-management, “gee, what down is it?”, to name a few, are atrocious, embarrassing, unacceptable, and unprofessional. Too much depends upon an official’s competency and ability to control the game transparently for this to continue.
Lot’s of discussion going on. Should be interesting to watch the process unfold.
🌹GO DAWGS
Another great article
After that call was confirmed during the civil war, all I can picture is the the replay guy sitting in the booth looking like mel brooks as the governor in blazing saddles.
what the over/under on there just not being officials because they lost track of the date for the game or spotted it 3 days short and mis booked their tickets?
I've been in the replay command center on a game day. I think those guys want to get it right. But they're hamstrung too in some ways.
You have said multiple times now that the replay command center has issues and that you have been there. What are the issues? It seemed clear to me at the game on the video board and on the tv when I watched it again at home.
That is because it was . Your eyes and my eyes were not wrong.. Someone is dirty.
What do you mean by hamstrung John? I think I know the answer.
I hope it is not what you are alluding to, but I would sure like to know.
John, what are the issues? I can see the result of plays on a $300 flatscreen from Bi-Mart.
The PAC-12 really needs to bring back Tony Corrente (or someone of his stature and experience) to take over the officiating and oversee a major overhaul. Hanks probably needs to be let go, or told to not have anything to do with the officiating, and Kliavkoff should step back and let the pros handle officiating.
Agree.
I have noticed on big plays that a lot of players refrain from even celebrating too much before they look back and look around and make sure there isn’t some BS flag thrown to ruin everything
Those are two incredibly stupid exceptions. The best officials should be at the Championship game.
That being said, there should be per game wages for each official PLUS a pool of bonus money that should be split annually per week [to reward the best-performing crews each week] & at year end (to reward the highest-rated AND the best-improved [from last year, over time, or whatever rubric makes sense] splitting the bonus money] individual officials). This would incent the best officials to stay and newer officials to get better at their jobs.
As far as other conferences "poaching" the best officials, why should this be surprising? The entire college football system is being driven by money. Memo to the Pac-12 management: find more money to fund your officiating system! Since King Scott and his wasteful bureaucracy has seemingly been overthrown, take some of the 1/13th share of revenue that the league used to claim and re-purpose it towards bulking up the officiating compensation pool.