I'm already tired of Yormark's act. Can't believe anything he says. I also think it's unseemly to take some subtle swipes at his predecessor, Bob Bowslby, by always talking about how he wants to re-energize the conference, how it had grown static or stale, how he's going to rebuild the Big 12's image. As if media tours are going to make a difference. Bob Bowlsby was one of the most knowledgable, capable and classy people in college athletics. So far, all Yormark has done is play P.T. Barnum.
Yeah I keep seeing "news" about how this or that is happening, as if its for certain, and how the pac12 is in trouble etc.... and its just like where does this even come from??? great to know whos flapping their gums and where the nonsense is coming from.
In the end, he's selling a conference anchored by Oklahoma State, Baylor, and TCU. He's selling a conference that lives in states already owned by the Big10, SEC, or Pac-12 (West Virginia and Kansas are the only Big12 states not overlapping with major conferences). It's a conference with no football blue bloods and no notable success in the modern era. It seems inevitable that TV ratings for this group will dwindle significantly when UT and OU are gone.
All the flashy lights and music in the world can't change the actual product here.
Of course, Kliavkoff is selling a flawed product as well. But the Pac-12 has two things in its favor: (1) late night inventory and (2) untapped potential in large markets. If Houston is ever top 10 good, they will still be playing 3rd fiddle to A&M and UT in Texas markets. If UW is ever top 10 good, they will deliver all of Seattle, which is a large market. Ditto for ASU, CU, and Cal with Phoenix, Denver, and San Fran.
If I had to pour money into one of these, I'd go for the one that could actually pay off big.
Funny thing is, it’s already working because you just like everyone else in the sports world is talking about it. Look at how much you alone had to say about these things. It’s like a bad wreck or some click bait, it gets your attention then your input. Not trying to argue or be disrespectful, but his plan has already started and the media deals will be done, big 12 will come out of this with a ton of money because the eastern market is hotter with college football and pac 12 schools will want in on that money to survive, just my two cents. Seen it happen way to many times.
Well, it really hasnt been tried, there was no windfall. The PAC12 network was a financial boondoggle that has lost the conference revenues (compared to just getting media rights $). The main factor in UCLA and USC leaving is financial. If you can get big money from Apple or Amazon, that could be a game changer. Especially if it could be built around added services, etc. I should be able to go stream any past game I want after its initial airing. That would also allow East coast people to watch more games, wake up sunday and watch an Oregon V USC game that started at 10:30 pm your time. Etc. Plus, I am not sure what the reach of those 2 services are, I know very few people that dont have at least access to a prime account, and Apple stuff is easy to access, and has a huge base of users. The Pac12 network is a pain in the ass to get access to, most people I know dont even know it exists (except for diehards who complain about it), I have to sign up for a streaming service like Sling or FUBU every fall, just to get access to it, and its the only reason I sign up for that service. Costs me like $150-200 for the 4 months just to get access to Pac12 games. It costs about $200 a year to get both Prime and Apple TV+, both of which I already have (get apple for free and have had prime since day one for shipping savings), both of which have other benefits that I utilize. So I will anyway take Pac12 moving to one of those over what we already have, add to that an actual windfall in revenue we might even end up keeping UCLA, (pretty sure USC is gone) and adding a few other good teams to the conference.
Sounds like Yormark is turning the Big-12 into a circus.... not thanks, we've got enough clown shows in college sports. I guess he's just a barker at heart and trying to create shiny objects to look at (since the B12 no longer has any with Texas & OU leaving).
John, you mention that you'd like both the Big12 and the Pac-10 to survive this. What do ESPN and Fox want (since they are calling the shots)? Does ESPN want the Big12 to fail so that they can extract OU and UT faster? Or do they not care about that timeline? Does Fox want the Pac to fail so that they own the only piece of the west worth owning?
I know you’re not asking me, but I’m guessing with their big spends on the SEC and Big 10 in the two most populated time zones and LA, that both are just looking for cheap content to fill channels and time slots. I can’t imagine any network spending big for Big 12 or PAC 10. And I don’t know why people assume Amazon or Apple are eager to blow their budget on them either.
Great take. CFB today is as much a battle between teams as it is between Disney/ESPN vs FOX.
USC? A blue blood if football. UCLA. Blue blood in CBB but UCLA is not going to the B1G with a full share except that FOX wanted to elbow ESPN out of the LA market.
That's exactly how the dummy lost the L.A. schools to a bigger, better conference and is now scrambling. Boy, the Pac-12 sure can pick 'em..............
I floated this theory in your comments once before (and it’s just a theory, I am no insider). I think Amazon sees live sports as a platform for gambling. They have made it very easy to order a jersey while watching Thursday Night Football. Nobody buys THAT many jerseys. But some people will keep placing bets week after week as long as they can draw breath.
The corollary to this theory is that they will pay a premium for a mid-marquee matchup in the 11PM Eastern time slot. It won’t get all that many eyeballs, but those eyeballs will be disproportionately attached to the sort of mega fan who can be enticed to place that $50 bet with just a few clicks of the remote (or even through Alexa voice assist). If I’m right, it won’t be long before Amazon buys one of the many online gambling houses and they will push hard to get at least Tier 2 in the PAC-12.
Note: I don’t actually like this. I just see it coming.
John, I want to believe in Kliavkoff. I really do. I keep waiting for him to do something positive. Anything. So far everything is wait and see. Wait and see got us a defection of LA schools. Nothing proactive to ask them how they were feeling in the PAC12. The Big12 lost two schools but quickly turned it around (I know, a net loss, but still, a positive action) and got 4 new schools to bolster them up. Is our wait and be quiet approach going to lose more? I am starting to wonder if Oregon, Washington, Stanford and Cal would do better taking a lesser cut and forming a western division of the Big10 with the LA schools. I don't want that at all because I think the road to the playoffs will be easier in the PAC... 10 or 11 or whatever it will be. I just have not seen ANYTHING from Kliavkoff yet aside from him wanting the trust of the school presidents. I am glad they are trusting him but I don't really know what he has done to earn that trust. Time to show something.
Great take. "Quickly" IMO is the key word and that was the work of Bob Bowlsby pre-retirement.
What if the Pac had hied Bob B and not Larry?
I agree with your opinion on GK. IMO the jury is still way out on this guy who in many respects is looking as incompetent, but not as spendthrift, as Larry.
2 years before his hire USC publicly indicated that it was not happy with the current revenue distribution deal and GK did nothing to save the conference bell cow.
The Pac-12 could and should have become the Pac-20. Wiped out a P5 competitor and establish a revenue model distribution based on big business capitalism and not a socialist model. Why should any conference member who does not invest the same capital and have the same market share receive an equal share of revenue?
The NFL equal share makes sense because the NFL strives for parity. But in real-world businesses lesser partners do not receive the same share as do more productive partners.
Thanks for the update John. Not only is the B12 commish selling his conference but CBS Dennis Dodd seems to be in his corner with constant updates on the B12 and crickets when it comes to the Pac-10.
Possibly it is simply my post LA departing paranoia but I do wish GK would be more vocal about the future of the Pac-10 including possible CFB expansion and I think it would behoove the Pac-10 to add Gonzaga as a CBB member only?
Frankly, as a Ducks fan the B1G $ would be nice but I do not want to stiff arm Oregon State and see our non-rev sport athletes exposed to ridiculous travel.
Chumming the waters... there’s an image. 🤢 Mr. Thompson is a great source for these conference television rights stories--think you might owe him a lunch. Keep them coming, John.
I'm thinking from a competitive sports perspective to the rest of the PAC-10 schools, not tv eyeballs?
If only looking from a TV perspective, you get the SD market and the OK market (if games don't compete with OU game times) and more importantly, you keep some inroads into southern CA recruiting and open up some doors into the expanded OK region.
Yormark is a snake oil peddler....It's only a matter of time before he embarrasses the Big 12 conference. What's strange is that he's already has embarrassed himself and doesn't even notice. Sadly the media (ESPN & FOX) don't care a whit that they are hurting their own product...Providing a fair & equitable (not lavish) market share to all of their business partners, only enhances their own target viewing audience which in turn puts more ad money in their pockets.
Meh. Bottom like is this is all rabble rousing. Nothing to talk about until there is something to talk about.
Dorkmark can make all the noise he wants, but I for one trust nothing he says until it is signed and delivered. For that matter, is Houston going to big 12?
I'm already tired of Yormark's act. Can't believe anything he says. I also think it's unseemly to take some subtle swipes at his predecessor, Bob Bowslby, by always talking about how he wants to re-energize the conference, how it had grown static or stale, how he's going to rebuild the Big 12's image. As if media tours are going to make a difference. Bob Bowlsby was one of the most knowledgable, capable and classy people in college athletics. So far, all Yormark has done is play P.T. Barnum.
Yeah I keep seeing "news" about how this or that is happening, as if its for certain, and how the pac12 is in trouble etc.... and its just like where does this even come from??? great to know whos flapping their gums and where the nonsense is coming from.
I always enjoy some Big-12. Oklahoma State is usually fun! P-T Barnum is right... some smoke and mirrors.
In the end, he's selling a conference anchored by Oklahoma State, Baylor, and TCU. He's selling a conference that lives in states already owned by the Big10, SEC, or Pac-12 (West Virginia and Kansas are the only Big12 states not overlapping with major conferences). It's a conference with no football blue bloods and no notable success in the modern era. It seems inevitable that TV ratings for this group will dwindle significantly when UT and OU are gone.
All the flashy lights and music in the world can't change the actual product here.
Of course, Kliavkoff is selling a flawed product as well. But the Pac-12 has two things in its favor: (1) late night inventory and (2) untapped potential in large markets. If Houston is ever top 10 good, they will still be playing 3rd fiddle to A&M and UT in Texas markets. If UW is ever top 10 good, they will deliver all of Seattle, which is a large market. Ditto for ASU, CU, and Cal with Phoenix, Denver, and San Fran.
If I had to pour money into one of these, I'd go for the one that could actually pay off big.
Funny thing is, it’s already working because you just like everyone else in the sports world is talking about it. Look at how much you alone had to say about these things. It’s like a bad wreck or some click bait, it gets your attention then your input. Not trying to argue or be disrespectful, but his plan has already started and the media deals will be done, big 12 will come out of this with a ton of money because the eastern market is hotter with college football and pac 12 schools will want in on that money to survive, just my two cents. Seen it happen way to many times.
The Alec Baldwin line was “ABC, Always Be Closing”
"Coffee is for closers."
Correct. One of my favorite lines.......ever.
Funny, but several reader messaged me immediately... and I knew that line. Fixed. Appreciate you all.
"The Pac-12 is more willing than its peers to trade some distribution for a larger windfall."
That worked so well the last time they tried that, and yet we are talking about doing that very thing again.
Well, it really hasnt been tried, there was no windfall. The PAC12 network was a financial boondoggle that has lost the conference revenues (compared to just getting media rights $). The main factor in UCLA and USC leaving is financial. If you can get big money from Apple or Amazon, that could be a game changer. Especially if it could be built around added services, etc. I should be able to go stream any past game I want after its initial airing. That would also allow East coast people to watch more games, wake up sunday and watch an Oregon V USC game that started at 10:30 pm your time. Etc. Plus, I am not sure what the reach of those 2 services are, I know very few people that dont have at least access to a prime account, and Apple stuff is easy to access, and has a huge base of users. The Pac12 network is a pain in the ass to get access to, most people I know dont even know it exists (except for diehards who complain about it), I have to sign up for a streaming service like Sling or FUBU every fall, just to get access to it, and its the only reason I sign up for that service. Costs me like $150-200 for the 4 months just to get access to Pac12 games. It costs about $200 a year to get both Prime and Apple TV+, both of which I already have (get apple for free and have had prime since day one for shipping savings), both of which have other benefits that I utilize. So I will anyway take Pac12 moving to one of those over what we already have, add to that an actual windfall in revenue we might even end up keeping UCLA, (pretty sure USC is gone) and adding a few other good teams to the conference.
Sounds like Yormark is turning the Big-12 into a circus.... not thanks, we've got enough clown shows in college sports. I guess he's just a barker at heart and trying to create shiny objects to look at (since the B12 no longer has any with Texas & OU leaving).
John, you mention that you'd like both the Big12 and the Pac-10 to survive this. What do ESPN and Fox want (since they are calling the shots)? Does ESPN want the Big12 to fail so that they can extract OU and UT faster? Or do they not care about that timeline? Does Fox want the Pac to fail so that they own the only piece of the west worth owning?
I know you’re not asking me, but I’m guessing with their big spends on the SEC and Big 10 in the two most populated time zones and LA, that both are just looking for cheap content to fill channels and time slots. I can’t imagine any network spending big for Big 12 or PAC 10. And I don’t know why people assume Amazon or Apple are eager to blow their budget on them either.
Great take. CFB today is as much a battle between teams as it is between Disney/ESPN vs FOX.
USC? A blue blood if football. UCLA. Blue blood in CBB but UCLA is not going to the B1G with a full share except that FOX wanted to elbow ESPN out of the LA market.
I hope you took it as a compliment, not a criticism 🤘
“I don’t feel, candidly, any sense of urgency at this point. No one’s going anywhere; we’re all together; we’re focused on doing this.”
He's good at not feeling any urgency.
That's exactly how the dummy lost the L.A. schools to a bigger, better conference and is now scrambling. Boy, the Pac-12 sure can pick 'em..............
I floated this theory in your comments once before (and it’s just a theory, I am no insider). I think Amazon sees live sports as a platform for gambling. They have made it very easy to order a jersey while watching Thursday Night Football. Nobody buys THAT many jerseys. But some people will keep placing bets week after week as long as they can draw breath.
The corollary to this theory is that they will pay a premium for a mid-marquee matchup in the 11PM Eastern time slot. It won’t get all that many eyeballs, but those eyeballs will be disproportionately attached to the sort of mega fan who can be enticed to place that $50 bet with just a few clicks of the remote (or even through Alexa voice assist). If I’m right, it won’t be long before Amazon buys one of the many online gambling houses and they will push hard to get at least Tier 2 in the PAC-12.
Note: I don’t actually like this. I just see it coming.
you're probably quite right, unfortunately.... always follow the money $$$
John, I want to believe in Kliavkoff. I really do. I keep waiting for him to do something positive. Anything. So far everything is wait and see. Wait and see got us a defection of LA schools. Nothing proactive to ask them how they were feeling in the PAC12. The Big12 lost two schools but quickly turned it around (I know, a net loss, but still, a positive action) and got 4 new schools to bolster them up. Is our wait and be quiet approach going to lose more? I am starting to wonder if Oregon, Washington, Stanford and Cal would do better taking a lesser cut and forming a western division of the Big10 with the LA schools. I don't want that at all because I think the road to the playoffs will be easier in the PAC... 10 or 11 or whatever it will be. I just have not seen ANYTHING from Kliavkoff yet aside from him wanting the trust of the school presidents. I am glad they are trusting him but I don't really know what he has done to earn that trust. Time to show something.
I think the strategic stuff is good. But agree there needs to be some public messaging.
Great take. "Quickly" IMO is the key word and that was the work of Bob Bowlsby pre-retirement.
What if the Pac had hied Bob B and not Larry?
I agree with your opinion on GK. IMO the jury is still way out on this guy who in many respects is looking as incompetent, but not as spendthrift, as Larry.
2 years before his hire USC publicly indicated that it was not happy with the current revenue distribution deal and GK did nothing to save the conference bell cow.
The Pac-12 could and should have become the Pac-20. Wiped out a P5 competitor and establish a revenue model distribution based on big business capitalism and not a socialist model. Why should any conference member who does not invest the same capital and have the same market share receive an equal share of revenue?
The NFL equal share makes sense because the NFL strives for parity. But in real-world businesses lesser partners do not receive the same share as do more productive partners.
Thanks for the update John. Not only is the B12 commish selling his conference but CBS Dennis Dodd seems to be in his corner with constant updates on the B12 and crickets when it comes to the Pac-10.
Possibly it is simply my post LA departing paranoia but I do wish GK would be more vocal about the future of the Pac-10 including possible CFB expansion and I think it would behoove the Pac-10 to add Gonzaga as a CBB member only?
Frankly, as a Ducks fan the B1G $ would be nice but I do not want to stiff arm Oregon State and see our non-rev sport athletes exposed to ridiculous travel.
The flow of information is not difficult to trace.
Dennis Dodd is anti Pac 12, always has been, always will be. He's a big SEC and Big 12 guy...not so much Big 10, absolutely not Pac 12 and Mtn. west.
Agree that Dodd is a complete shill for the Big 12.
Chumming the waters... there’s an image. 🤢 Mr. Thompson is a great source for these conference television rights stories--think you might owe him a lunch. Keep them coming, John.
He's a smart guy who has been on in hundreds of deals.
an intelligent huckster is a dangerous quantity, irregardless of his closing ratio
Run, don’t walk, away from this clown
GO DAWGS
Love the thought. But would the Dawgs run from the Cougs if offered more money from the B1G or the B12?
In the present state of the state, nothing, no matter how shortsighted it appears to be, would surprise me
oops, almost stepping on the soapbox…
GO DAWGS
The Big 12 knew it needed a huckster to sell snake oil because they lost
their two largest viewership draws...
The Pac 12 lost two schools in big markets which is not the same thing.
Random thoughts on a Friday evening.
IF SD State was added, would OK State make sense?
I'm thinking from a competitive sports perspective to the rest of the PAC-10 schools, not tv eyeballs?
If only looking from a TV perspective, you get the SD market and the OK market (if games don't compete with OU game times) and more importantly, you keep some inroads into southern CA recruiting and open up some doors into the expanded OK region.
What would Kansas and K-State bring from a sports competition level and TV viewership perspective (https://worldpopulationreview.com/states)?
OK is ranked 28, below Oregon (27) and above Utah (30).
KS is ranked 35, whereas NV is ranked 32 (how does UNLV compare academically)?
There really aren't many other state options - of course you could go into Texas and combined OK State with Texas Tech.
Yormark is a snake oil peddler....It's only a matter of time before he embarrasses the Big 12 conference. What's strange is that he's already has embarrassed himself and doesn't even notice. Sadly the media (ESPN & FOX) don't care a whit that they are hurting their own product...Providing a fair & equitable (not lavish) market share to all of their business partners, only enhances their own target viewing audience which in turn puts more ad money in their pockets.
Meh. Bottom like is this is all rabble rousing. Nothing to talk about until there is something to talk about.
Dorkmark can make all the noise he wants, but I for one trust nothing he says until it is signed and delivered. For that matter, is Houston going to big 12?
Maybe the Pac needs a salesman . . .