Oh I wish he could’ve said what we all think…FU to the Big 10. From a family of IU Hoosiers, I was disgusted with the addition of Nebraska, Rutgers, Maryland when it happened. They bring NOTHING athletics wise.
And having those Cali schools in my conference makes me ill. Californication.
Grow up one day, and then come out to visit California. You’ll find out we’re not so bad. In fact, in my experience living across the country, people are more or less the same no matter where you go.
In situations like this my late hero George Leonard would ask himself: "Why does it have to be done this way, and what would it look like if it were done a different way?" Seems to me, John, this is relevant to the whole college football situation. And other than money, nothing else seems to offer a rational answer. Hang in there, really appreciate the updates.
John, did you get any sense that Kliavkoff regretted either the Alliance or his vote against the CFP proposal last year? I know it still wouldn't have mattered if he voted yes, as long as Warren and Phillips were still no's, but right now 6 automatic bids for conference champs looks really good from a Pac perspective and something that good seems unlikely to be on the table next time around.
Thanks, John. My own assessment: I like George, but I thought that whole Alliance thing was contrived when announced, and now in hindsight shows that he came in a little naïve about how cutthroat the world of college athletics is. Not that it likely made any difference, since the conference was already well down this path by the time he took over. Hopefully the hard lessons learned will benefit him and the conference moving forward.
Jul 30, 2022·edited Jul 30, 2022Liked by John Canzano
The 6 automatic bids did not guarantee a spot for the Pac-12 conference champ. Why would have Kliavkoff have any regret on turning down that proposal. The 6 auto bids were determined by which 6 conference champs were ranked in the polls. The polls are subjective. Kliavkoff would have said yes to an automatic Pac-12 conference champion.
He was right to reject the previous proposal. Not only that, the CFP proposal last year was not put on the open market. ESPN would have owned the CFP and they are definitely biased toward the SEC. The more you take the polls out of the CFP the better. The NFL doesnt decide their playoff on a media poll.
6 AQ's doesn't guarantee entry to the CFP, but it's a lot better for the Pac than just having all 12 spots at-large, which is what Greg Sankey says he wants now. And fwiw, Kevin Warren said the other day he has "softened" his stance on wanting AQ's. Since those two guys hold all the cards now, as long as they can agree with each other they can come up with whatever format they want and everyone else can either take it or leave it.
I think when the future of the CFP is set the Pac will look back and wish they had taken the first offer.
If there are 12 at large spots and the Pac-12 cant place a team in the playoff by winning games, they dont deserve to be there. They or Kliavkoff are not going to look back, because their decision was well thought out and not based on an irrational fear that with 12 spots the league cannot field one winning deserving team.
If a Pac-12 team goes undefeated this year they will be in the CFP.
This year is not relevant to my point, since no actual realignment has occurred yet. I'm talking post-realignment.
I wouldn't be so quick to dismiss the possibility that in the future a 12-1 Pac champ would not make the Top 12. As you yourself said, the CFP rankings are very subjective, and with all the brand names concentrated in the Big Ten and SEC combined with a low opinion of a pared-down Pac, I can see the CFP ranking several 3-loss Big Ten/SEC teams ahead of the 1-loss Pac champ. Even in a 12-team playoff, I think the Pac champ would have to go undefeated to get in.
At least with 6 AQ's the Pac champ would have had an excellent shot of getting in, as long as they don't have 4+ losses and are ranked lower than at least 2 G5 teams.
Historically a 12-1 Pac-12 team or for that fact even a two loss team would be in the Top 12 thus qualifying in the new proposed CFP. This year even Utah with 4 losses (counting the Rose Bowl last minute loss) was in the top 12.
I am confident that a 12-1 Pac-12 under the proposed 12 team CFP would get in. It would look outrageous if a 9-3 SEC team took their place.
However, I do agree that a 12-1 Pac-12 conference champ team under the current 4 team CFP might not get in. That's why it is imperative that Conference Champs get AQ bids, which is why Kliavkoff rejected last year's proposal.
History has less relevance going forward because we did not have any 16-team conferences back then. Utah was actually a 3-loss team prior to bowl season, and they only barely finished in the Top 12 (#11).
If the SEC, as assumed, goes to a 9-game conference schedule, then their 3-loss teams are going to be looked at much more favorably than they are right now. Meanwhile, the Pac with only 10 teams, or with a couple G5s added if they so choose, is going to be judged even more harshly by the CFP than it is now.
Sankey wants zero AQs. Warren seems to be leaning in that direction. Those two guys make all the rules now.
I’m curious why folks thought the commissioners comments were off script? It’s an interesting comment as I think that is part of the PAC 12/10 issue. So worried about outward appearances that the conference is being outmaneuvered on a daily basis. He stood up for the conference vs. being nice ( purposely didn’t day political correct as that isn’t where the conversation should go) and stated the conference has a future. Maybe it does and maybe it doesn’t but at least someone stood up for it.
I just wish the conference would realize that bold action vs. the normal “academic arrogance” is what is needed. Seriously one move from the Big 10 and the conference is done. It’s that close to being over. Love the PAC 12/10. Let’s go and do what needs to be done to move forward.
Every team in every sport needs to put their focus on beating USC and UCLA. Hopefully the conference stays together. Any playoff should have an automatic bid for each of the major conferences, just like in basketball. They play different schedules. Need to incentivize tough schedules.
If you were the SEC and as is often the case you have three or four schools ranked ahead of one or two of the "Next 3" conference champions, why would you vote for automatic bids? Answer, they won't and given how the gap between them and the Next 3 is set to widen dramatically, its going to be very hard for the Next 3, much less the G5 to make an 8 team playoff.
This whole national (invitational) championship crap where there is no commonality of schedules is a.) nonsense, b.) killing college football.
What most don’t get is unlike in Oregon where Oregon is the larger University…. the Cal State System is twice as large as the UC System. What should have happened a PAC-12 Media day is something like the following:
While we are saddened by the loss of USC and UCLA their leaving opens the opportunity to do something that should have been done years ago. We today are announcing the addition of the 4M Cal State Alumni and their families to the PAC-12 conference.
Representing both Southern California and the great Central Valley both SDSU and Fresno State will be rebranding and joining the PAC 12 starting 2023.
Thank you for your updates. I've been wanting Kliavkoff to go nuclear and really punish ucla and usc. Emotionally its what I think many of us were hoping for but he took the highest of roads yesterday and I respect him a lot for it. He asked that we embrace the blameless student athletes and coaches from USC and UCLA and in the next 2 years their success is our success.
After hearing that, who wouldn't want to be associated with Kliavkoff? Or would they feel better throwing their lot in with the cut throat, back stabbing Big 10 commissioner - Kevin Warren. Warren's only focus has been money with zero concern for the impact on the students or the fans. (travel, tradition, game times...)
With Kliavkoff he really tried to put the focus on the kids and I am wondering what do the student athletes at the remaining 10 schools think about all this? Probably most are where they want to be...playing for a coach and teammates they like and want to be around, and going to a good quality school. I'm also thinking it gives them a little added incentive and they will have more of a chip on their shoulder.
The remaining PAC 10 golf, track, lacrosse, and baseball/softball teams are breathing sighs of relief they won't have to compete in Midwest spring weather. Will USC and UCLA compete in Hockey? Wrestling? The culture is a terrible fit. I feel bad for all the student athletes caught up in this.
I am more confident about the PAC 12's future with Kliavkoff and I really like his approach. As fans I think we need to step up and support our teams, get out to the stadiums and tailgate like 1999! So what the 2 most ""popular"" kids just left the dance? Now we're going to have more fun and let's make them regret leaving the party early!!
I would correct only one point... Chip Kelly is far from blameless... he's one of the biggest reasons UCLA is $120 million in debt (the most expensive feeding of a team in all FBS, canceling the Holiday Bowl like he did, accepting a new high paying contract, etc) that supposedly caused them to want to move.
good point and I would add that Lincoln Riley was given a head's up during his hiring process that a move out of the PAC 12 could happen but he wanted the job and Chip isn't going to turn down the money. The blame I think still falls on the CArol Folt from USC as she has been dealing in bad faith from the beginning, and the UCLA AD and administration who approved all the contracts and and subsequent buyouts of fired coaches Jim Mora, Rick Neuheisel and Karl Dorrell.
No doubt the SEC is the best conference, but seeing Alabama play Georgia 3 times is boring. A 12 team playoff with 5 automatic bids, still leaves plenty of room for Big 10 and SEC teams to make it. The TV networks certainly don't want two teams from the south playing each other all the time every year. Rematches are terrible in college football. Go Bears!
Best conference? Last year they only had 5 teams in the top25, which is the same number of Group5 teams in the top25.
Of course the preseason top25 all of a sudden have 10 SEC teams and no Group5 teams... thats all ESPN marketing... and they do this so they can use the "strength of schedule" argument to push Bama or Georgia in the CFP if they have one or two losses.
No offense to the Group of 5, but if they won 2 games in the SEC that would be a surprise. Alabama and Georgia were the two best teams. LSU, Florida, Auburn and Texas AM can all have great teams. Since college football is the only game in town their are lots of people willing to pay NIL money to everyone for playing football. That is not going to happen in pro markets. It's just going to get worse.
Good article but I think the PAC is dead and it will be killed by its own hubris.
When a Washington fan wrote about the PAC-12 they expressed concern for Washington State. But unlike in Oregon, Washington and Arizona, California State alumni are shut out. That’s 4M alumni and 400,000 students in the CA State system. Not to mention their friends and families.
What is the PAC-12’s message to them? You aren’t good enough for us. It’s not a surprise that those associated with the Cal States have little interest in the PAC except when they play SJSU, Fresno or SDSU. The PAC will continue down that path and in doing so sign their own death warrant.
What did you expect for him to do? Two CA universities decided to turn their backs on the student athletes and alumni and the PAC... wat is George supposed to do with that?
Has nothing to do with George and has everything to do with the elitist PAC-12 Presidents and their exclusion of the Cal State System. USC and UCLA only further weakened the PAC. College sports is a business and PAC-12 Presidents have done their best to exclude and insult the largest population base in their footprint. It was and is dumb business and contributed to the demise of the PAC.
Oh I wish he could’ve said what we all think…FU to the Big 10. From a family of IU Hoosiers, I was disgusted with the addition of Nebraska, Rutgers, Maryland when it happened. They bring NOTHING athletics wise.
And having those Cali schools in my conference makes me ill. Californication.
Grow up one day, and then come out to visit California. You’ll find out we’re not so bad. In fact, in my experience living across the country, people are more or less the same no matter where you go.
Just for fun I hope USC gets a mud hole stomped in them every Saturday. Just for fun though hahahaha.
Herm Edwards’s quote speaks truth about the changing college sports landscape. I am wondering if Jonathan Smith will hold a car wash as a fundraiser.
Well here's a neat tidbit....USC's president "shut down" Pac-12 expansion talks last summer.
https://www.latimes.com/sports/story/2022-07-29/usc-president-carol-folt-pac-12-expansion
In situations like this my late hero George Leonard would ask himself: "Why does it have to be done this way, and what would it look like if it were done a different way?" Seems to me, John, this is relevant to the whole college football situation. And other than money, nothing else seems to offer a rational answer. Hang in there, really appreciate the updates.
John, did you get any sense that Kliavkoff regretted either the Alliance or his vote against the CFP proposal last year? I know it still wouldn't have mattered if he voted yes, as long as Warren and Phillips were still no's, but right now 6 automatic bids for conference champs looks really good from a Pac perspective and something that good seems unlikely to be on the table next time around.
I asked him. He declined to go there. He said he wanted to "leave it at that."
Thanks, John. My own assessment: I like George, but I thought that whole Alliance thing was contrived when announced, and now in hindsight shows that he came in a little naïve about how cutthroat the world of college athletics is. Not that it likely made any difference, since the conference was already well down this path by the time he took over. Hopefully the hard lessons learned will benefit him and the conference moving forward.
The 6 automatic bids did not guarantee a spot for the Pac-12 conference champ. Why would have Kliavkoff have any regret on turning down that proposal. The 6 auto bids were determined by which 6 conference champs were ranked in the polls. The polls are subjective. Kliavkoff would have said yes to an automatic Pac-12 conference champion.
He was right to reject the previous proposal. Not only that, the CFP proposal last year was not put on the open market. ESPN would have owned the CFP and they are definitely biased toward the SEC. The more you take the polls out of the CFP the better. The NFL doesnt decide their playoff on a media poll.
Why do you think ESPN is biased towards the SEC?
6 AQ's doesn't guarantee entry to the CFP, but it's a lot better for the Pac than just having all 12 spots at-large, which is what Greg Sankey says he wants now. And fwiw, Kevin Warren said the other day he has "softened" his stance on wanting AQ's. Since those two guys hold all the cards now, as long as they can agree with each other they can come up with whatever format they want and everyone else can either take it or leave it.
I think when the future of the CFP is set the Pac will look back and wish they had taken the first offer.
If there are 12 at large spots and the Pac-12 cant place a team in the playoff by winning games, they dont deserve to be there. They or Kliavkoff are not going to look back, because their decision was well thought out and not based on an irrational fear that with 12 spots the league cannot field one winning deserving team.
If a Pac-12 team goes undefeated this year they will be in the CFP.
However three equally strong team in a conference, could for example, beat up on each other, leaving no undefeated team.
AQ for the PAC is what we should hope for.
This year is not relevant to my point, since no actual realignment has occurred yet. I'm talking post-realignment.
I wouldn't be so quick to dismiss the possibility that in the future a 12-1 Pac champ would not make the Top 12. As you yourself said, the CFP rankings are very subjective, and with all the brand names concentrated in the Big Ten and SEC combined with a low opinion of a pared-down Pac, I can see the CFP ranking several 3-loss Big Ten/SEC teams ahead of the 1-loss Pac champ. Even in a 12-team playoff, I think the Pac champ would have to go undefeated to get in.
At least with 6 AQ's the Pac champ would have had an excellent shot of getting in, as long as they don't have 4+ losses and are ranked lower than at least 2 G5 teams.
Historically a 12-1 Pac-12 team or for that fact even a two loss team would be in the Top 12 thus qualifying in the new proposed CFP. This year even Utah with 4 losses (counting the Rose Bowl last minute loss) was in the top 12.
I am confident that a 12-1 Pac-12 under the proposed 12 team CFP would get in. It would look outrageous if a 9-3 SEC team took their place.
However, I do agree that a 12-1 Pac-12 conference champ team under the current 4 team CFP might not get in. That's why it is imperative that Conference Champs get AQ bids, which is why Kliavkoff rejected last year's proposal.
History has less relevance going forward because we did not have any 16-team conferences back then. Utah was actually a 3-loss team prior to bowl season, and they only barely finished in the Top 12 (#11).
If the SEC, as assumed, goes to a 9-game conference schedule, then their 3-loss teams are going to be looked at much more favorably than they are right now. Meanwhile, the Pac with only 10 teams, or with a couple G5s added if they so choose, is going to be judged even more harshly by the CFP than it is now.
Sankey wants zero AQs. Warren seems to be leaning in that direction. Those two guys make all the rules now.
I’m curious why folks thought the commissioners comments were off script? It’s an interesting comment as I think that is part of the PAC 12/10 issue. So worried about outward appearances that the conference is being outmaneuvered on a daily basis. He stood up for the conference vs. being nice ( purposely didn’t day political correct as that isn’t where the conversation should go) and stated the conference has a future. Maybe it does and maybe it doesn’t but at least someone stood up for it.
I just wish the conference would realize that bold action vs. the normal “academic arrogance” is what is needed. Seriously one move from the Big 10 and the conference is done. It’s that close to being over. Love the PAC 12/10. Let’s go and do what needs to be done to move forward.
Every team in every sport needs to put their focus on beating USC and UCLA. Hopefully the conference stays together. Any playoff should have an automatic bid for each of the major conferences, just like in basketball. They play different schedules. Need to incentivize tough schedules.
If you were the SEC and as is often the case you have three or four schools ranked ahead of one or two of the "Next 3" conference champions, why would you vote for automatic bids? Answer, they won't and given how the gap between them and the Next 3 is set to widen dramatically, its going to be very hard for the Next 3, much less the G5 to make an 8 team playoff.
This whole national (invitational) championship crap where there is no commonality of schedules is a.) nonsense, b.) killing college football.
Speaking of outside the box...maybe the conference needs to consider Harbaugh's idea
of linking a media contract with paying NIL revenue to players, that would totally change
the dynamics.
Didn’t like Riley’s comment. I hope it sounded better than it came across in print.
What most don’t get is unlike in Oregon where Oregon is the larger University…. the Cal State System is twice as large as the UC System. What should have happened a PAC-12 Media day is something like the following:
While we are saddened by the loss of USC and UCLA their leaving opens the opportunity to do something that should have been done years ago. We today are announcing the addition of the 4M Cal State Alumni and their families to the PAC-12 conference.
Representing both Southern California and the great Central Valley both SDSU and Fresno State will be rebranding and joining the PAC 12 starting 2023.
Thank you for your updates. I've been wanting Kliavkoff to go nuclear and really punish ucla and usc. Emotionally its what I think many of us were hoping for but he took the highest of roads yesterday and I respect him a lot for it. He asked that we embrace the blameless student athletes and coaches from USC and UCLA and in the next 2 years their success is our success.
After hearing that, who wouldn't want to be associated with Kliavkoff? Or would they feel better throwing their lot in with the cut throat, back stabbing Big 10 commissioner - Kevin Warren. Warren's only focus has been money with zero concern for the impact on the students or the fans. (travel, tradition, game times...)
With Kliavkoff he really tried to put the focus on the kids and I am wondering what do the student athletes at the remaining 10 schools think about all this? Probably most are where they want to be...playing for a coach and teammates they like and want to be around, and going to a good quality school. I'm also thinking it gives them a little added incentive and they will have more of a chip on their shoulder.
The remaining PAC 10 golf, track, lacrosse, and baseball/softball teams are breathing sighs of relief they won't have to compete in Midwest spring weather. Will USC and UCLA compete in Hockey? Wrestling? The culture is a terrible fit. I feel bad for all the student athletes caught up in this.
I am more confident about the PAC 12's future with Kliavkoff and I really like his approach. As fans I think we need to step up and support our teams, get out to the stadiums and tailgate like 1999! So what the 2 most ""popular"" kids just left the dance? Now we're going to have more fun and let's make them regret leaving the party early!!
I would correct only one point... Chip Kelly is far from blameless... he's one of the biggest reasons UCLA is $120 million in debt (the most expensive feeding of a team in all FBS, canceling the Holiday Bowl like he did, accepting a new high paying contract, etc) that supposedly caused them to want to move.
good point and I would add that Lincoln Riley was given a head's up during his hiring process that a move out of the PAC 12 could happen but he wanted the job and Chip isn't going to turn down the money. The blame I think still falls on the CArol Folt from USC as she has been dealing in bad faith from the beginning, and the UCLA AD and administration who approved all the contracts and and subsequent buyouts of fired coaches Jim Mora, Rick Neuheisel and Karl Dorrell.
No doubt the SEC is the best conference, but seeing Alabama play Georgia 3 times is boring. A 12 team playoff with 5 automatic bids, still leaves plenty of room for Big 10 and SEC teams to make it. The TV networks certainly don't want two teams from the south playing each other all the time every year. Rematches are terrible in college football. Go Bears!
Best conference? Last year they only had 5 teams in the top25, which is the same number of Group5 teams in the top25.
Of course the preseason top25 all of a sudden have 10 SEC teams and no Group5 teams... thats all ESPN marketing... and they do this so they can use the "strength of schedule" argument to push Bama or Georgia in the CFP if they have one or two losses.
No offense to the Group of 5, but if they won 2 games in the SEC that would be a surprise. Alabama and Georgia were the two best teams. LSU, Florida, Auburn and Texas AM can all have great teams. Since college football is the only game in town their are lots of people willing to pay NIL money to everyone for playing football. That is not going to happen in pro markets. It's just going to get worse.
Another Canzano column where nothing really happens. John goes to LA ..overhears some stuff.
I’m very weary of it all. In the end the fans get the left-overs.
Good article but I think the PAC is dead and it will be killed by its own hubris.
When a Washington fan wrote about the PAC-12 they expressed concern for Washington State. But unlike in Oregon, Washington and Arizona, California State alumni are shut out. That’s 4M alumni and 400,000 students in the CA State system. Not to mention their friends and families.
What is the PAC-12’s message to them? You aren’t good enough for us. It’s not a surprise that those associated with the Cal States have little interest in the PAC except when they play SJSU, Fresno or SDSU. The PAC will continue down that path and in doing so sign their own death warrant.
What did you expect for him to do? Two CA universities decided to turn their backs on the student athletes and alumni and the PAC... wat is George supposed to do with that?
Has nothing to do with George and has everything to do with the elitist PAC-12 Presidents and their exclusion of the Cal State System. USC and UCLA only further weakened the PAC. College sports is a business and PAC-12 Presidents have done their best to exclude and insult the largest population base in their footprint. It was and is dumb business and contributed to the demise of the PAC.