My daughter just headed back to Pullman for her senior year at WSU. I've always found it very cool that schools like Washington State and Oregon State could be in the big leagues of college football. Would hate to see that go away. We'd all lose something.
Take SDSU and Houston now P12! Amend the CFB and March Madness stakes to award the successful. Team with ACC on its network. Obviously with ESPN, ABC is our broadcast spot. Lastly, and here’s the biggie, lure Amazon or Apple (both with west coast roots) to invest in a fantastic streaming channel. Make each school responsible for hawking packages to its fans. You can tie the paid service to season ticket and sponsorship packages. Does that get us to $55/school?!
Not sure Amazon and Apple feel any particular loyalty to the PAC 12 or West Coast football. They hire employees from all over the country, and their CEO’s have no ties either. Apple’s Tim Cook is actually a big Auburn football booster, growing up in Birmingham (Auburn undergrad and Duke MBA) and Amazon’s Jassy grew up in NYC and was Harvard for both undergrad and MBA).
Like most big corporations, they have shareholders to answer to, so if there’s a great business case which fits within their strategy, they’ll participate, otherwise they won’t.
Apple and Amazon are playing a different game from everyone else, though. They're spending money on video content as part of a much larger ecosystem play, rather than being media companies with constraints on growth.
In this particular moment, where Netflix has caused a chilling effect across the entire media landscape, I do wonder if ESPN's checkbook will be a little tighter and if Apple and Amazon's will be open a little wider. I still think putting all the extra Pac-12 football games on ESPN+ is the most likely scenario, but I wouldn't be shocked if Apple or Amazon swooped in and offered more than they're worth to ESPN, because they are using live sports to get people into their ecosystems.
That was exactly my thought. Amazon overplayed big time with MLB and the NFL. It seems a foot in the door type of scenario. I just think creative minds could do a lot with a P12 streaming site. Hoping this creative minds are there now, otherwise the league dwindles.
Thanks John. I'm relying on your reporting on the Pac-12 news and you're doing a great job of keeping it real and current without a ton of weird speculation. Keep it up. I'm a Stanford alum and fan, and a Ducks and Beavers fan to keep it local, so like a lot of others I have some (cheap) skin in the game. Keep it coming!
Part of it is the MWC. They had more interest when in the PCAA. If you don’t Think San Diego would watch conference football games with Cal, Oregon, Stanford and Washington, I disagree. My other post referenced the success ASU had after moving to P12. And SDSU basketball? Look it up!
SMU's TV audience over a 5 year period from 2014 to 2019 was 3 times that of SDSU and it is in a much bigger market.
The old adage-build it and they will come applies to SMU. Dallas is a true sports town with its own 24 hour sports radio channel (the Ticket) and plenty of fans looking for an opportunity.
SMU has former President Bush in the audience, Gerald Ford (the Banker) and so many billionaire backers it would make your head spin.
In 2012, SMU hired Larry Brown as its basketball coach. Coach Brown never really stays anywhere very long, but during his tenure, basketball became the hottest ticket in town.
If football has name opponents coming in (Oregon, Washington, Stanford), the town will react.
Yeah people even close to the Mustang program don’t think SMU is a fit for P12, it’s a a small private school that doesn’t even tweak the Dallas market. It’s a real short-sighted argument to pick SMU ahead of SDSU. In addition? Maybe. But in this race the death penalty Mustangs (elite cred) are behind SDSU, Houston, UNLV and Boise. Take a number, dude. And W Bush? Who gives a flip?!
What people close to the program don't think SMU is a fit.
Their President and key donors clearly know they are.
Seriously- name a few at SMU who are informing you to the contrary, "dude".
SMU has an endowment that is roughly 6 times that of SDSU. It has donors, like UO, who can simply write a check and build a new facility.
In other words, it has the resources to respond quickly to a pivot back to big time football, which it played until the SWC disbanded. SDSU simply does not.
SMU not only has deep pockets, it has an astounding array of wealthy alumni.
Oh, and while I did not support George Bush as a politician, the guy is very supportive of SMU and had the muscle to raise $500 million for his beautiful Presidential Library on the SMU campus.
I have nothing against SDSU-but it lacks the resources and connections to jump into the deep end.
I doubt SMU will get an invite-
My only thought- having lived in SMU's shadow since leaving Oregon for Dallas in 1985, is that it is an astoundingly impressive institution with deep pockets and generous donors who repeatedly step up to the plate.
If the Big 10 wants that late-night time slot that everybody seems to say ESPN values so much, they could invite 4 more west coast schools and steal that from the Pac 12 as well. I’m sure Oregon, Stanford, Washington and Cal would jump at the chance. It would give USC and UCLA a western division/pod that would greatly reduce the travel challenges the LA schools will face if the conference stays as is.
My gut tells me if that slot was really valuable, the Big 10 would be all over it. And I’m sure ESPN would be happy to pay for it. The conference would get some additional revenue for adding the 4 teams through their new agreement, and then an additional boost of revenue for the “Big 10 After Dark” product. They would then be in every television time slot on Saturday. They could even arrange for a Friday night game as well. I’m skeptical it carries as much value as has been speculated, or the Big 10 would gobble it up.
If the Pac 12 doesn’t expand, they deserve to die. They are almost certainly dead already, or will be within the next 5-10 years. And it’s a shame. But they didn’t get it done with Oklahoma, Oklahoma State, Texas, and Texas Tech when they had the chance. That, and proper handling of the Pac-12 Networks and the conference would likely be in the spot to be the 3rd super conference that survives.
Wishing them the best, but expecting the group of decision makers that have done nothing but fall flat on their face to do what they have to do to survive seems dubious at best.
Great job John very lucid analysis of the way things are right now. I do think that SDSU is the best fit for expansion. However, I would say 85% fit given the academic hierarchy. My experience in administration in both Cal State and UC system tell me no. clearest explanation of that issue Tony Altimore on SDSU. https://twitter.com/i/status/1560669074043981824 I see SDSU eventually in Big 12. hoping you and john W do another podcast soon
Which is the inherent problem: UCs have crapped on CSU--in academia and athletics--for decades. It’s bothersome that Gavin Newsom did the grandstanding for the butthurt UCB folks and the Regents, who have their noses above it all. Newsom should take the opportunity to fight for the larger of the two university system and its flagship: SDSU.
As for SDSU: the athletic department is poised ready and competitive. The arbitrary rankings are another reason to exclude by elites. And you can find many that slip SDSU in there.
One thing I want to note. I had a conversation with an ASU fan last month. He was bullish on ASU academics. He’s right, they have improved. Remember Harry from Dumb and Dumber coulda been a Sun Devil!
And then I asked him to back to the tier A or whatever rankings he referenced. They didn’t rank well until after being in the Pac 10/12 for a decade or so. Would they have moved up if they stayed in the WAC/MEC. I doubt it.
So conferences can lift up institutions academically and in these various rankings. SDSU is already on par or better than OSU or WSU. I told the dude I’ll bet you SDSU passes ASU within decade of P12 membership.
And if these P12 Presidents stick up their nose at the likes of SDSU and/or stay at 10? RIP P12.
My daughter just headed back to Pullman for her senior year at WSU. I've always found it very cool that schools like Washington State and Oregon State could be in the big leagues of college football. Would hate to see that go away. We'd all lose something.
Take SDSU and Houston now P12! Amend the CFB and March Madness stakes to award the successful. Team with ACC on its network. Obviously with ESPN, ABC is our broadcast spot. Lastly, and here’s the biggie, lure Amazon or Apple (both with west coast roots) to invest in a fantastic streaming channel. Make each school responsible for hawking packages to its fans. You can tie the paid service to season ticket and sponsorship packages. Does that get us to $55/school?!
Not sure Amazon and Apple feel any particular loyalty to the PAC 12 or West Coast football. They hire employees from all over the country, and their CEO’s have no ties either. Apple’s Tim Cook is actually a big Auburn football booster, growing up in Birmingham (Auburn undergrad and Duke MBA) and Amazon’s Jassy grew up in NYC and was Harvard for both undergrad and MBA).
Like most big corporations, they have shareholders to answer to, so if there’s a great business case which fits within their strategy, they’ll participate, otherwise they won’t.
Apple and Amazon are playing a different game from everyone else, though. They're spending money on video content as part of a much larger ecosystem play, rather than being media companies with constraints on growth.
In this particular moment, where Netflix has caused a chilling effect across the entire media landscape, I do wonder if ESPN's checkbook will be a little tighter and if Apple and Amazon's will be open a little wider. I still think putting all the extra Pac-12 football games on ESPN+ is the most likely scenario, but I wouldn't be shocked if Apple or Amazon swooped in and offered more than they're worth to ESPN, because they are using live sports to get people into their ecosystems.
That was exactly my thought. Amazon overplayed big time with MLB and the NFL. It seems a foot in the door type of scenario. I just think creative minds could do a lot with a P12 streaming site. Hoping this creative minds are there now, otherwise the league dwindles.
Then appeal to their business sense? There are less speculative ventures than businesses of the Pac 12.
Thanks John. I'm relying on your reporting on the Pac-12 news and you're doing a great job of keeping it real and current without a ton of weird speculation. Keep it up. I'm a Stanford alum and fan, and a Ducks and Beavers fan to keep it local, so like a lot of others I have some (cheap) skin in the game. Keep it coming!
Thank you David. It means a lot to me that you're here for it.
I think SDSU and UNLV are no-brainers. Make a serious play for SMU and Houston. If the Pac10 doesn't grow it will continue to shrink IMHO.
SDSU is a no brainer. All of the others have warts.
Bob, I fear it may be a no brainer for other reasons.
Its own town doesn't turn on the TV.
I suspect more University of Montana fans are tuning in on gameday for their team than SDSU.
Just a thought.
Part of it is the MWC. They had more interest when in the PCAA. If you don’t Think San Diego would watch conference football games with Cal, Oregon, Stanford and Washington, I disagree. My other post referenced the success ASU had after moving to P12. And SDSU basketball? Look it up!
Thanks for the follow up "dude".
SMU's TV audience over a 5 year period from 2014 to 2019 was 3 times that of SDSU and it is in a much bigger market.
The old adage-build it and they will come applies to SMU. Dallas is a true sports town with its own 24 hour sports radio channel (the Ticket) and plenty of fans looking for an opportunity.
SMU has former President Bush in the audience, Gerald Ford (the Banker) and so many billionaire backers it would make your head spin.
In 2012, SMU hired Larry Brown as its basketball coach. Coach Brown never really stays anywhere very long, but during his tenure, basketball became the hottest ticket in town.
If football has name opponents coming in (Oregon, Washington, Stanford), the town will react.
The potential is off the charts.
Yeah people even close to the Mustang program don’t think SMU is a fit for P12, it’s a a small private school that doesn’t even tweak the Dallas market. It’s a real short-sighted argument to pick SMU ahead of SDSU. In addition? Maybe. But in this race the death penalty Mustangs (elite cred) are behind SDSU, Houston, UNLV and Boise. Take a number, dude. And W Bush? Who gives a flip?!
What people close to the program don't think SMU is a fit.
Their President and key donors clearly know they are.
Seriously- name a few at SMU who are informing you to the contrary, "dude".
SMU has an endowment that is roughly 6 times that of SDSU. It has donors, like UO, who can simply write a check and build a new facility.
In other words, it has the resources to respond quickly to a pivot back to big time football, which it played until the SWC disbanded. SDSU simply does not.
SMU not only has deep pockets, it has an astounding array of wealthy alumni.
Oh, and while I did not support George Bush as a politician, the guy is very supportive of SMU and had the muscle to raise $500 million for his beautiful Presidential Library on the SMU campus.
I have nothing against SDSU-but it lacks the resources and connections to jump into the deep end.
I doubt SMU will get an invite-
My only thought- having lived in SMU's shadow since leaving Oregon for Dallas in 1985, is that it is an astoundingly impressive institution with deep pockets and generous donors who repeatedly step up to the plate.
"Dude"
Right here from the Canzano
Podcast: https://soundcloud.com/kxtg-the-bald-faced-truth/bft-interview-mac-engel
Let’s hear of neutral source who think SMU is a better fit than SDSU. The consensus seems to be SDSU is #1. Ask John.
If the Big 10 wants that late-night time slot that everybody seems to say ESPN values so much, they could invite 4 more west coast schools and steal that from the Pac 12 as well. I’m sure Oregon, Stanford, Washington and Cal would jump at the chance. It would give USC and UCLA a western division/pod that would greatly reduce the travel challenges the LA schools will face if the conference stays as is.
My gut tells me if that slot was really valuable, the Big 10 would be all over it. And I’m sure ESPN would be happy to pay for it. The conference would get some additional revenue for adding the 4 teams through their new agreement, and then an additional boost of revenue for the “Big 10 After Dark” product. They would then be in every television time slot on Saturday. They could even arrange for a Friday night game as well. I’m skeptical it carries as much value as has been speculated, or the Big 10 would gobble it up.
If the Pac 12 doesn’t expand, they deserve to die. They are almost certainly dead already, or will be within the next 5-10 years. And it’s a shame. But they didn’t get it done with Oklahoma, Oklahoma State, Texas, and Texas Tech when they had the chance. That, and proper handling of the Pac-12 Networks and the conference would likely be in the spot to be the 3rd super conference that survives.
Wishing them the best, but expecting the group of decision makers that have done nothing but fall flat on their face to do what they have to do to survive seems dubious at best.
Great job John very lucid analysis of the way things are right now. I do think that SDSU is the best fit for expansion. However, I would say 85% fit given the academic hierarchy. My experience in administration in both Cal State and UC system tell me no. clearest explanation of that issue Tony Altimore on SDSU. https://twitter.com/i/status/1560669074043981824 I see SDSU eventually in Big 12. hoping you and john W do another podcast soon
Which is the inherent problem: UCs have crapped on CSU--in academia and athletics--for decades. It’s bothersome that Gavin Newsom did the grandstanding for the butthurt UCB folks and the Regents, who have their noses above it all. Newsom should take the opportunity to fight for the larger of the two university system and its flagship: SDSU.
As for SDSU: the athletic department is poised ready and competitive. The arbitrary rankings are another reason to exclude by elites. And you can find many that slip SDSU in there.
One thing I want to note. I had a conversation with an ASU fan last month. He was bullish on ASU academics. He’s right, they have improved. Remember Harry from Dumb and Dumber coulda been a Sun Devil!
And then I asked him to back to the tier A or whatever rankings he referenced. They didn’t rank well until after being in the Pac 10/12 for a decade or so. Would they have moved up if they stayed in the WAC/MEC. I doubt it.
So conferences can lift up institutions academically and in these various rankings. SDSU is already on par or better than OSU or WSU. I told the dude I’ll bet you SDSU passes ASU within decade of P12 membership.
And if these P12 Presidents stick up their nose at the likes of SDSU and/or stay at 10? RIP P12.