"Nevarez has asked her schools for a re-commitment to the conference and, per one source, “is throwing money at them trying to keep them.” Whose money is she throwing at them? All the MWC money belongs to the conference schools. She doesn't know which schools might jump so can't take from one to promise to another. That sounds hollow. If she is talking about the penalty money from the four who already bolted, that money also belongs to all the MWC schools, equally I would guess.
She is spending the money the PAC-12 and leaving schools are paying in to leave to try and keep others schools from leaving. If you leave you don't get part of the pot o' cash. But, if Utah State jumps ship then UNLV might change its mind. I don't see Air Force attracting attention. Having no graduate studies does not help their cause. It is all about the cash, but to keep the academics happy, having a Ph.D. program seems like a must. John - what do you hear along those lines?
You may want to check out Dennis Dodd and Dan Wolken today. They have their own spin on the possibilities. Love John, but the "sources" don't just talk to one guy.
Not really a fan of the east coast move. I understand the dollar potential with media and I guess that's what a move like this is all about, but still...
I would only go for that if the division winners were decided by only the five games played within the division.
Unbalanced schedules with luck of the draw regarding Strength of Schedule bother me when deciding on the participants in a conference championship game.
What about the devastating effects additional travel will have on the student-athletes? Will this disappear along with breaking up a conference being the worst crime in history?
Reverse merger with the Mountain West and rebrand the conference the Pac-12. Instead, the Pac-2 is leaving left behind MW schools with the same concerns that WSU and OSU had to face; with a difference of $300 plus million not being gifted to those left behind.
So we shall have the FBS Power 4 Conferences: Big 10, SEC, Big 12, ACC and the FBS TDC6 Conferences (Titanic Deck Chairs 6): Pac-12, MWC, AAC, Sunbelt, MAC, CUSA. Their shuffle is an exercise in survival and futility. I understand the necessity of the former and recognize the inevitability of the latter.
There remain deep wounds and great harm done and that's not changed, Jon, but it's no longer the focus of most of us. Time to look to what's ahead instead of what's behind. Best to you.
Reverse merger? That ship sailed on September 1st. Time to move on.
The self-imposed limitation of proximity will keep the PAC from actually growing and being competitive on a national level.. The Big 10, the ACC and the Big XII have shown us the days of regional conferences are mostly gone. I’m sure the last guy in business making buggy whips, made the best buggy whip money could buy.
So Jon, we have a legal system based upon enforcement of contractual obligations and/or requiring financial accountability for actions which damage others---where does a "$300 plus million" gift fit into that framework from your perspective?
Jeff, the suit brought by the Pac-2 made No Claim for Damages. The Pac-10 departees all left at a time when there were no Exit Fees to be paid under a contract that had run its course.
This was 10 'leaders' who did moronic things to destroy the Pac-12 making a moronic 'settlement," No matter the Washington state court decision, the Pac-10 filing Chapter 7 would not have been tossed out of a federal court because no 'board members' voted to file BK.
How much of the playoff money the Pac-2 received, $113M of which went toward becoming the Pac-6, did the Pac-2 earn?
You want it both ways. Destroying the Pac-12 was criminal but destroying the MW and likely the Big Sky is kosher?
But I agree with Jean Southward. All the best to the Pac-Whatever; Next Case.
I agree that they did not sue for damages; rather they sued to enforce contractural obligations (and fiduciary obligations). Simply stated, the 10 left, and the remaining 2 owned the entity and its assets. And that brings me back to my original point—there was no “gift” from a legal, equitable, moral or any other way which you attempted to characterize it.
Considering how awful things looked for the PAC not so long ago, all of these scenarios are about as good as OSU & Wazzu could have hoped for. I am quite happy to see the conference rebuilt and whatever the future may hold, like what I see now.
I would welcome South Florida, Tulane, Memphis, Texas- San Antonio, and UNLV all with open arms.
Utah State, not so much. I can’t see how they bring any value to a media rights negotiation. From the way you’ve described them here John, it sounds like they’re desperate to get off a sinking ship. I don’t see value added with USU.
Utah State has a ton of potential. Their enrollment numbers are just below the Utes, and they have been growing. If they have the financial backing from donors/boosters, I don’t see much of an issue.
The AAC schools are still a better add, but if packaged with UNLV and UTSA, Utah State could make sense.
I don’t doubt potential. But potential doesn’t count for much in a media rights contract negotiation. The conference has to bring a product to market that maximizes value.
I would take USU in a heartbeat. 3 or 4 years ago probably I would not have even considered them, but as Jonathan Weaver said the State of Utah is booming and USU has some big time donors. They are building their programs.
Word now is that these schools have said "no." Probably for the best, I think, as locking up "West Coast" programs makes more sense to me, cost-and-rivalry-wise. So stay with the Mountain and Pacific time zones except for San Antonio...
I'm not being critical of your reporting, JC, I like knowing exactly what's going on and I completely trust your reporting. That being said, as a long time Pac-12 supporter, I have no interest or attraction in schools like South Florida or Memphis. And the thought of Utah State and Texas - San Antonio being offered memberships makes me gag. Seriously? Utah State? Why isn't UNLV a top player? For obvious reasons, including future potential, UNLV is so much better than the schools mentioned and Colorado State, another low-tier outfit. And please spare me, readers, the UNLV and University of Nevada are joined at the hip by the state regents. There's historical precedence of those two schools being in separate conferences. Besides, I'd much rather take Nevada Reno and UNLV than Utah State and Texas San-Antonio for a million reasons.
Thanks for the reporting - just not a fan at all of the schools being considered. Big step down. Huge drop in brand and prestige. They're building a real minor conference.
Fair question, Jack. Simply based on many years of west coast experience and familiarity. You're right about USTA's potential - I'm still having a tough time swallowing the demise of the Pac-12. Reconstituting a conference with teams like Colorado State, UTSA, South Florida, Memphis and potentially Utah State (my, lord!), and calling it the Pac-12 just seems so phony to me. All of those programs are light years behind the old Pac-12 members in quality. At least with schools like San Diego State, Fresno State, Boise State, UNLV, you could make a case they're western teams and all played many non-conference games vs. the old Pac-12 members. Just emotion, Jack, because it's so fake...it's like putting lipstick on Madeleine Albright and claiming she's Angelina Jolie.
Good reply. Fresno and Boise in particular have often played at a Pac 12 level. UTSA isn't there-I have heard good things about the school in general from living in Texas. They are developing a good reputation as a research school given that the school is only 60 years old or so.
John, you might be one of the few news sources and storytellers left.
Congratulations on the hard work and great effort.
I think you’re in a class by yourself.
This type of reporting is why i subscribe
"Nevarez has asked her schools for a re-commitment to the conference and, per one source, “is throwing money at them trying to keep them.” Whose money is she throwing at them? All the MWC money belongs to the conference schools. She doesn't know which schools might jump so can't take from one to promise to another. That sounds hollow. If she is talking about the penalty money from the four who already bolted, that money also belongs to all the MWC schools, equally I would guess.
She is spending the money the PAC-12 and leaving schools are paying in to leave to try and keep others schools from leaving. If you leave you don't get part of the pot o' cash. But, if Utah State jumps ship then UNLV might change its mind. I don't see Air Force attracting attention. Having no graduate studies does not help their cause. It is all about the cash, but to keep the academics happy, having a Ph.D. program seems like a must. John - what do you hear along those lines?
You may want to check out Dennis Dodd and Dan Wolken today. They have their own spin on the possibilities. Love John, but the "sources" don't just talk to one guy.
Agreed
Ditto.
Not really a fan of the east coast move. I understand the dollar potential with media and I guess that's what a move like this is all about, but still...
USF is on the West Coast. Ask anyone who lives in Tampa.
Go Dons.
Bill Russell and K.C. Jones baby!
Good one
My geography tells me Florida is east, hence the east coast comment. Apologies to those in Tampa.
It would be great if there are 6 East Coast teams and 6 West Coast teams.
Then 5 out 8 conference games would be regional.
I would only go for that if the division winners were decided by only the five games played within the division.
Unbalanced schedules with luck of the draw regarding Strength of Schedule bother me when deciding on the participants in a conference championship game.
I have mixed feelings as well. I do think it won’t be a permanent thing, as major changes will be coming 2030/2031…if not sooner.
What about the devastating effects additional travel will have on the student-athletes? Will this disappear along with breaking up a conference being the worst crime in history?
Reverse merger with the Mountain West and rebrand the conference the Pac-12. Instead, the Pac-2 is leaving left behind MW schools with the same concerns that WSU and OSU had to face; with a difference of $300 plus million not being gifted to those left behind.
All this to rearrange G5 deck chairs.
What's it to you? Go enjoy the BFD conference.
BFD - B1G Fracking Dinero?
So we shall have the FBS Power 4 Conferences: Big 10, SEC, Big 12, ACC and the FBS TDC6 Conferences (Titanic Deck Chairs 6): Pac-12, MWC, AAC, Sunbelt, MAC, CUSA. Their shuffle is an exercise in survival and futility. I understand the necessity of the former and recognize the inevitability of the latter.
I'd not realized how deeply those criticisms got under your skin, Jon. Most of the rest of us have moved on. You should, too.
Jean, so all is forgiven regarding Oregon and UW? Right?
There remain deep wounds and great harm done and that's not changed, Jon, but it's no longer the focus of most of us. Time to look to what's ahead instead of what's behind. Best to you.
Also Jon, WSU and OSU have taken actions to survive now after the wrongs to them by UW and UO, the latter schools made their moves purely for cash.
LOL
Cash, and a better media visibility, and opportunity to be in the "cool group" when the 2030 skinny down to just 30-40 schools comes.
Reverse merger? That ship sailed on September 1st. Time to move on.
The self-imposed limitation of proximity will keep the PAC from actually growing and being competitive on a national level.. The Big 10, the ACC and the Big XII have shown us the days of regional conferences are mostly gone. I’m sure the last guy in business making buggy whips, made the best buggy whip money could buy.
He just likes trolling the PAC12.
So Jon, we have a legal system based upon enforcement of contractual obligations and/or requiring financial accountability for actions which damage others---where does a "$300 plus million" gift fit into that framework from your perspective?
Jeff, the suit brought by the Pac-2 made No Claim for Damages. The Pac-10 departees all left at a time when there were no Exit Fees to be paid under a contract that had run its course.
This was 10 'leaders' who did moronic things to destroy the Pac-12 making a moronic 'settlement," No matter the Washington state court decision, the Pac-10 filing Chapter 7 would not have been tossed out of a federal court because no 'board members' voted to file BK.
How much of the playoff money the Pac-2 received, $113M of which went toward becoming the Pac-6, did the Pac-2 earn?
You want it both ways. Destroying the Pac-12 was criminal but destroying the MW and likely the Big Sky is kosher?
But I agree with Jean Southward. All the best to the Pac-Whatever; Next Case.
I agree that they did not sue for damages; rather they sued to enforce contractural obligations (and fiduciary obligations). Simply stated, the 10 left, and the remaining 2 owned the entity and its assets. And that brings me back to my original point—there was no “gift” from a legal, equitable, moral or any other way which you attempted to characterize it.
Considering how awful things looked for the PAC not so long ago, all of these scenarios are about as good as OSU & Wazzu could have hoped for. I am quite happy to see the conference rebuilt and whatever the future may hold, like what I see now.
No interest AT ALL in South Florida. Memphis and Tulane would be tolerable. Still would rather have an all-West conference.
Others obviously might not feel the way I do. But what the fans think or want doesn't seem to matter at all anymore.
Add the teams and still call it PAC 12. Pacific Atlantic Conference
I would welcome South Florida, Tulane, Memphis, Texas- San Antonio, and UNLV all with open arms.
Utah State, not so much. I can’t see how they bring any value to a media rights negotiation. From the way you’ve described them here John, it sounds like they’re desperate to get off a sinking ship. I don’t see value added with USU.
Utah State has a ton of potential. Their enrollment numbers are just below the Utes, and they have been growing. If they have the financial backing from donors/boosters, I don’t see much of an issue.
The AAC schools are still a better add, but if packaged with UNLV and UTSA, Utah State could make sense.
I don’t doubt potential. But potential doesn’t count for much in a media rights contract negotiation. The conference has to bring a product to market that maximizes value.
The State of Utah is booming right now.
USU is going to grow with it. If they’re willing to make the commitment the Pac-12 is requiring, it could be a good addition.
That being said, I’d invite UNLV and USAFA first.
By the time USU grows, all the dance cards will have changed anyway.
I would take USU in a heartbeat. 3 or 4 years ago probably I would not have even considered them, but as Jonathan Weaver said the State of Utah is booming and USU has some big time donors. They are building their programs.
I would take Montana over USU
Exciting beyond description! Can’t wait for you to be the FIRST to tell us the results!
Word now is that these schools have said "no." Probably for the best, I think, as locking up "West Coast" programs makes more sense to me, cost-and-rivalry-wise. So stay with the Mountain and Pacific time zones except for San Antonio...
I'm not being critical of your reporting, JC, I like knowing exactly what's going on and I completely trust your reporting. That being said, as a long time Pac-12 supporter, I have no interest or attraction in schools like South Florida or Memphis. And the thought of Utah State and Texas - San Antonio being offered memberships makes me gag. Seriously? Utah State? Why isn't UNLV a top player? For obvious reasons, including future potential, UNLV is so much better than the schools mentioned and Colorado State, another low-tier outfit. And please spare me, readers, the UNLV and University of Nevada are joined at the hip by the state regents. There's historical precedence of those two schools being in separate conferences. Besides, I'd much rather take Nevada Reno and UNLV than Utah State and Texas San-Antonio for a million reasons.
Thanks for the reporting - just not a fan at all of the schools being considered. Big step down. Huge drop in brand and prestige. They're building a real minor conference.
Rich, why don't you like UTSA?
It is located within a large metrople and has a very good fan base.
Fair question, Jack. Simply based on many years of west coast experience and familiarity. You're right about USTA's potential - I'm still having a tough time swallowing the demise of the Pac-12. Reconstituting a conference with teams like Colorado State, UTSA, South Florida, Memphis and potentially Utah State (my, lord!), and calling it the Pac-12 just seems so phony to me. All of those programs are light years behind the old Pac-12 members in quality. At least with schools like San Diego State, Fresno State, Boise State, UNLV, you could make a case they're western teams and all played many non-conference games vs. the old Pac-12 members. Just emotion, Jack, because it's so fake...it's like putting lipstick on Madeleine Albright and claiming she's Angelina Jolie.
Good reply. Fresno and Boise in particular have often played at a Pac 12 level. UTSA isn't there-I have heard good things about the school in general from living in Texas. They are developing a good reputation as a research school given that the school is only 60 years old or so.
1:23 pm (PT) Per The Athletic’s Chris Vannini: Tulane, SMU. So. Fla and UT-San Antonio to stay in AAC; Air Force recommitting to Mountain West.
Hmm.
Am sure we will get updated reporting from John; all I will say about this is:
-If Scott and Klavikoff had even half of Gloria Navarez’s spine, the PAC12 might’ve stayed intact
-Utah State and UNLV look a little more attractive
This did not age well today. https://www.cbssports.com/college-football/news/memphis-utsa-tulane-usf-reaffirm-commitment-to-aac-amid-interest-from-pac-12-to-join-re-imagined-league/
I consider this great news!
I’m not sorry Memphis, Tulane, and USF went with AAC. The travel costs would have been enormous.
https://x.com/American_Conf/status/1838289083371581441
Brett McMurphy says Gonzaga is joining the Pac-12.
Says they are expected to get a full revenue share despite not playing football.
Money is money, but without Memphis for basketball, I'm a little surprised Gonzaga would leave current situation for new-Pac. But, money is money.
Now seeing several tweets saying McMurphy may have got ahead of his skis. Pac and Gonzaga are in discussions, but no deal yet.
Mike, is correct. As of 12:30 pm
Throw them dice! Let's play.