I think if I am an athlete in a non-revenue-generating sport I’d start looking at smaller more regional schools to get my education, so I can focus on preparing for the rest of my life, and enjoy my four years in college. UW provided a free education to my wife so long as she hit a little white ball around some of the best course in the Western USA for them for 4 years. I think she still holds the course record in Pullman she told me that golf was different because of how their tourneys were played but it would still be a drag to cross time zones. Everyone pays here.
On another note. As a Beaver fan, the best way for this to end is for the Beavs to walk into Autzen, beat them, and walk away never to play again. Let their last memory to be one of defeat. And, let them feel their self serving betrayal for years. ThT would be epic.
For you are right, that they acted in their own short term perceived financial best interest, they didn’t seem to consider all the other costs involved. One of the callers from UO called it a break up. I like the metaphor. The one who left is the megalomaniac, and they will end up regretting it on the end.
I'm a Ducks fan and I agree with you...with one minor caveat. I hope the Beavs run the table this year - they're going to take a terrible recruiting and coaching staff hit in future years. Beat everybody on their conference schedule this year - including Oregon - and when Oregon wises up and comes dragging back to the west with hat in hand, and John Karl Scholz is history, bring them back. From that humbling moment on, I'll again root for the Ducks to bury the Beavs...every year.
Respectfully disagree the the Beavers will suffer massive coaching losses as a result if this. You are assuming that those schools that got screwed by the colluders will not react. Wheels are in motion to resurrect the PAC in some form, and i believe that Apple will indeed play a part in that. The streaming option with their advanced technology iz the path forward, and the reconstructed PAC will not be encumbered with what will be obsolete media access by the time the other existing media rights packages expire. Apple streaming would give them world wide distribution.
After all the talk of Apple putting forth a streaming-only proposal, wouldn't it be wild if they supersized my idea of buying a cheap, low-rated cable network and ended up buying ESPN? That would certainly provide the linear TV outlet that was so sadly lacking in the eyes of the "Pac-10" conference decision makers when they were considering Apple's proposal.
Here, here...not all change is progress. In addition, it's shocking how many times people in leadership positions don't take into consideration the law of unintended consequences.
Agree. When OSU ad WSU leaders demanded that big media pay $50 mil for our media rights, the chain of events following have been their unintended consequences. Go Dawgs
I believe you are mistaken about the $50mm counter offer. That was much earlier in this process and ESPN was involved. It was in response to certain PAC-12 members (now departed and now shown to be part of the clandestine plan that was enabled to blow up the PAC.) it certainly did not come at the behest of WSU or OSU. This kind of ill informed input from you simply muddies the already turbulent waters.
Talk to me after a couple of seasons of flying to the East Coast to take part in the most menial athletic competitions for .50 on the dollar. Hope the Dawgs have great accountants.
Ok so you think its better that OSU wins their last game against Oregon and never play the . Civil war again even though it would clearly be OSU's biggest football payday every year. Sure makes sense to have those schools who already can stay and play in a national conference in all sports to "own it" and ignore their fellow state schools left behind. Who really wins with that approach, but go Beavs! as this guy who lives in Corvallis is hoping for a little more enlightenment and objectivity from fans who think its a betrayal to try to keep big time football in the Northwest that the move to the Big10 allows for UO and UW.
I didn't have a wife who played D1 sports, but I did have 2 daughters who had full ride scholarships 50 miles from home but both chose to leave the state to get the most competitive college experience even though it cost them more personally. Last night I talked to one of the lawyers who helped finalize the Oregon to Big10 deal and his take was the Oregon athletes beyond football all seem pretty excited for the move. Maybe he was blowing smoke and there will be regret in the future, but I doubt it. Still I will be surprised if the remaining 4 schools can create a more competitive conference for the other sports than they could if they kept the 8 West Coast schools together. Stanford seems to be working hard to try to go national right now so we will see. I really hope someone works on a solution for the athletes sake and Oregon State's sake.
How many other athletes did this lawyer talk to one on one, in a nonstressful environment. This reminds of the joke that the marketing committee reports that "90% of people that returned the survey say they enjoy doing surveys"
And on your deathbed you'll have eternal consciousness. So you'll have that going for you.
The lasting impression will be of Knight School that left precisely at the juncture when it became crystal clear that all Phil's money couldn't get them past OSU on the field.
Duck alum and fan here. The education is never free. It’s an exchange of the athletes time, labor, and skill set. I don’t think Beaver fans would be as salty if the roles were reversed.
I've said before that I don't see Oregon, say volleyball, traveling regularly to Maryland, Pennsylvania and New Jersey. And vice-versa. It would be ironic, wouldn't it, to have Oregon Stage and Washington State to end up being the non-revenue sport power houses in the Pac NW?
My thoughts exactly. If the remaining PAC schools join the Mountain West or recreate the PAC with schools on the Western half of the US, then this realignment has got to cause the non-football sports teams of the remaining PAC schools become much more attractive to athletes from the West Coast who want their parents to see them play close to home or those who have the wisdom to care about their mental well-being.
It's humorous to me that after dispensing with so many other traditions, anyone is still clinging to the notion that it's important for revenue and non-revenue sports to play a common set of opponents.
You apparently haven't been to many conference championships in those sports. I have...and seen many more on TV. There's a lot of excitement in playing a traditional opponent in any sport.
I attend many more Olympic sports (eg, wrestling, volleyball) than revenue sports, including where they play in separate conferences that result in more sustainable travel and scheduling.
It's very clear at this point that football will not be funding other sports at historical levels in perpetuity, and the sooner the rationalization takes place, the fewer opportunities (scholarships) will ultimately be lost.
When one gets a true accounting of athletic income and total expenditures, it is often the case that not only is academics subsidizing athletics through hidden accounts, but even those who have enough athletic money left over to help academics do so only after spending the maximum possible on their "moneymaker". Just sayin', Charlie
Can not speak for JoeDelaney but at that risk JD would likely agree there is interest in non-revenue sport competition but no particular reason besides a lingering, rapidly dissipating and romantic notion a football conference is also volleyball, track and even basketball conference. Much less all a university's sports teams must be in the same conference.
I think it's silly that casual fans, and not alumni, have the biggest voice. The ability to have a rivalry with the university in your backyard means so much more than one across the nation... It's only casual TV fans that don't understand this
Yep. As I just posted, a lot of very good athletes in sports I enjoy--softball, volleyball, women's basketball--could avoid the travel idiocy, and families unable to watch them play, and decide to stay in the Pac-12 area. At OSU and WSU and Cal and Stanford.
As a father of 2 D1 athletes I can you tell that my kids wanted the best competition and weren't willing to take D2 full scholarships to be closer to home and took lesser money at more competitive schools farther away. The programs have to be the most competitive and I believe the Big 10 national conference with USC, UCLA, UW, and Oregon added would be a lot more competitive than whatever the PAC4 remaining put together. Still those 8 together would be an incredible conference in the sports beyond football. Add Gonzaga and it would be amazing.
It's all conceptual for 17-18 year-old athletes. My hunch is after the first year of tons of travel and sleepless nights and working extra hard to keep grades up and no mom/dad/friends at away games, the Portal might just get plenty of use. Especially when there's no 6-7 figure pro sports contract down the road. Just a hunch.
Unfortunately, the "we" seems to be 12 campus "leaders" who are generally clueless about sports, and may not be getting as broad a perspective on viewpoints as they would find useful. I'd posit NONE of them have had sit-downs with athletes on their campuses not participating in football or men's hoops. Leaders not smart enough to listen to those they "lead" do not have much hope of leaving any sort of admirable legacy.
It makes a lot of sense to separate football into its own universe and regionalize other sports. But my guess is that all these universities will need to suffer the pain of these crazy realignments for a few seasons before more level heads prevail.
The various campuses of the University of California are rated as 6 of the top 10 public universities in the nation. So you would think that the Regents of the University of California are dedicated to research and academics.
Given a chance to stand up for academics last December, they chose not to do so. They could have blocked UCLA's plan. Or they could have required that the move be a "football only" move.
The Regents were presented with a survey of UCLA athletes that revealed that more than 70% of athletes were concerned about the travel that would be required to compete in the BIG TEN.
Yet the Regents voted 11-5 in favor of grabbing FOX's money instead of prioritizing academic and protecting student health.
If the Regents of the #1 public university in the world are going to pimp the athletes to grab more money -- is there any hope that a good idea (like Chip's) will ever be embraced? Perhaps it will if it can be shown that Chip's idea is more profitable.
Thr high ranking of CA schools will soon be a thing of the past.
The UC and CSU are having real problems with academics in the last five or so years. They stopped caring about academics once they began chasing equity.
I have many friends that are professors at many of the CA universities.
They made it easier for minorities from low income areas to enter the schools, but far more of those students weren't prepared, so they put them in remedial classes to catch up to university standards.
However, they found that the remedial classes had high percentages of minorities, and instead of wondering how K-12 was failing them, they decided remedial classes were racist... So they shut them down and they don't exist anymore.
Without remedial classes, they just shove kids in math and English classes that they are not prepared for. So no surprise, almost all of these kids were failing. They found most of these kids were minorities, so again blamed it on a racist grading system, and forced professors to lower expectations and rigor.
This is just now hitting the upper level courses, that expect a certain level of background in math and English that the students don't have. Professors are right now lowering those expectations.
The UC and CSU schools will eventually drop hard on academics.
The LA Times reported that the UC regents would have voted to keep UCLA in the conference IF GL could have ensured that UCLA had a payout of $52m per year.
Oregon’s interim president shot it down because they would be damned if they’d be in the same conference making half of what UCLA did.
The irony is not only did that happen, it probably would have forced USC to reconsider had Oregon said yes
Woaaa Nelly as a famous Pac-8 Rose Bowl announcer used to say....Governor Newsom tried to stop this move, but in the end it was not about "grabbing Fox's money" in any way. It was because the Regents had ceded the power to do exactly what occurred to the schools and so if they had tried to stop UCLA it would have resulted in a legal mess. What they did do is make sure UCLA ponied up some of that BIG 10 money to Cal, but who knows what that will be now.
Similar to a Supreme Court justice. A regent is nominated by the Governor and confirmed by the State Senate. Unlike the Supreme Court, a regent has a term of 12 years. So these folks are all politically connected.
Awesome John. Such a simple solution for non-football sports/ athletes and yet so difficult for Pac-12 leaders to actually lead. Again, until CFB nuts like me find a better more enjoyable way to spend 14 hours on a fall Saturday, this madness will continue.
While this makes some sense, speaking as a fan of one of the teams devastated by this greed-driven realignment, I say make them own it. Pack your suitcases and take your toothbrushes. USC, UCLA, Oregon and Washington did this to the Pac-12 and destroyed 108 years of tradition. So have fun flying your volleyball, baseball, softball, golf and basketball teams to West Lafayette, Bloomington, New Brunswick and College Park. You deserve it.
If I were Oregon State, Washington State, Cal (or ?Stanford?), don't help them out. You've been totally F'd over. Use this opportunity strengthen your non-revenue sports by selling regionality to your recruits and letting parents know they'll be able to watch their kids games in person.
I'm looking forward to seeing Oregon State baseball in Omaha again and the Ducks as roadkill alongside the New Jersey Turnpike.
Wow. You are probably are one that thinks WSU shouldn't play UW in the Apple Cup or have the game formerly called the Civil war played even though it would clearly be WSU & OSU's biggest football payday every year. Sure makes sense to have those schools who already can stay and play in a national conference in all sports to "own it" and ignore their fellow state schools left behind. Who really wins with that approach, but go Beavs! as this guy who lives in Corvallis is hoping for a little more enlightenment and objectivity from fans "left behind" vs creatively working together to improve it for all West Coast student athletes beyond football.
Kudos to Hill for being a constructive voice, unlike many of his retired AD peers who are getting fat at the consulting fee trough by feeding this anxiety on one side and then selling "strategic advice" on the other side to those who have to deal with it.
Folks, it time to wake up. Corporate America runs this country. A corporation created our opioid crisis. Corporations are ruining our environment. They are literally working people to death. Corporations are killing college sports. You can't stop it. Nothing, including our government, will stand up to these monsters. It's a miracle all this didn't happen 10 years ago. Just turn on the TV and watch. You will. I will. As for swimmers and wrestlers......they are the pawns......just like we all are under the weight of corporate America. You can either focus on it and go mad.........or look away and towards the light.....if you can find it.
Actually, there IS a way to stop it and that is a variable tax rate. The bigger the company the higher the tax rate. Very small companies get very small tax rates, rather than one size fits all as is the case today. If you tax the H-ll out of big companies they will break up into smaller companies, which are more innovative anyway. Big = bureaucracy = inefficiency (and poor decision making). Universities suffer the same fate, though the tax system can't be used to break them up. But how much more effective would a university be if all the colleges (engineering school for example) were spun off into separate entities who have to sink or swim on their own? Get rid of all that executive management, and all the BS social engineering / indoctrination departments within that executive structure
Or, bring back trust-buster Teddy Roosevelt. Or, don't they teach about that in school anymore. "The one thing we learn from history is that we don't learn from history." Georg Wilhelm Friedrich Hegel
Well played Scott, very well played. Before he died George Carlin gave an interview where he stated "I stopped voting because it doesn't matter, Corporate America owns the government and calls all the shots, so it doesn't matter beyond that". John Cleese says in another interview, "It's over, you can't change it, so don't wast energy trying". Neither of these opinions is recent.
So, they choose to leave..chasing the “all mighty $”, and the Beavs, Cougs, Bears, and Cardinal should all let them back in to play in the PAC-12 for the rest of the sports, minus football and maybe Men’s basketball. Eliminating any chance for the 4 to rebuild and at least try to stay relevant in football. Yeah....No. You left, you chased the $, you deal with the consequences. Lord knows the 4 above are dealing the consequences of your actions.
Totally agree. This is a no-brainer. When USC, for example, chose to leave the Pac-12, they leave entirely. They own all of the sports programs. If travel becomes a significant problem, and it will, the departed universities find a home for them in another conference. Just not the Pac-12.
I live here in Corvallis and I am a platypus (Oregon grad school, 11 years teaching at OSU), but I am a realist. The TV money is about football and brands which the Big10 got the 4 biggest.
Wouldn't it be better if we kept the value of the Conference of Champions in all other sports including men's and women's bball and start monetizing it separately from football than let everything die out. The 4 PAC4 schools have more to lose than USC/UCLA/UW, & Oregon in those sports especially Stanford who seems hell bent to leave OSU & WSU behind and doesn't seem interested in the MWC. Maybe they could live with it in football or go independent in football like UConn. Still there is opportunity to work together to increase value for all in these other sports and do what makes sense. If not the 4 West Coast schools will continue on its path and will embrace the national conference they're already in as the Big10 which Stanford would love to join.
This is a post from someone I coached in college. Now she’s a head coach at a power 5 school herself ~
DECISION-MAKERS… PAY ATTENTION… This IS something!
My 5 yrs at my previous Power5 institution, and I’m a GROWN woman with a family, not a college kid trying to figure out life - I spent 10 3-day weekends on the road for 3 months to compete, with the expectation to WIN in the spring season. Do the math on how many days we were actually in the comforts of our home and on campus to be in classrooms (stop forgetting that athletes need to be in classes to get a degree).
I watched my athletes study for final exams in airports - enduring flight delays that got them home at 4am with a final to ACE at 8am. The travel was brutal and there was no way around it. Not every school has been, nor will be able to afford traveling in charter planes
(at some institutions I know 😉 only RANKED teams got the luxury of charter flights and those were all sports who play in fall/winter season and don’t endure weather delays to get the games played, and play less than a 3-5 game weekend series (more like, 1-2 competition(s) and fly home) (ya feel me 😉)
ONE MIGHT ARGUE THE TEAMS’ RANKING IS CONNECTED WITH THE CHARTER FLIGHT TRAVEL ACCOMMODATIONS that offer the benefit of REST, RECOVERY, MENTAL WELL-BEING — INVESTMENTS IN BETTER TRAVEL ACCOMMODATIONS SHOW AN INVESTMENT IN THE PEOPLE/ATHLETES — NOT INVESTING IN SUCH, SHOWS A LACK OF VALUE ONE HAS FOR THESE PEOPLE/ATHLETES.
I will never work, live and experience that again …because… NO ONE CARES about your mental and physical exhaustion - just THE WINS. And that is not happiness, or a way to WIN at Life!
These decision-makers need to try living and playing in a season like this before you make moves like that.
The same arguments made here about the impacts on participants in non-revenue sports applies to men’s basketball--the “other” revenue sport. Let me tell you all a story to illustrate the point.
Our son played basketball at Stanford (‘06 - ‘10). We traveled regularly, including all of the two-game swings to OR, AZ and LA and to Seattle (Pullman was just too remote for our schedules.)
The games pretty consistently were Thursday/Saturday; an occasional Sunday. They usually flew out on Wednesday and returned Sunday; players missed at least two in-person class days.
And the demands on their time away from home were extraordinary--film sessions, team meetings/meals, scouting reports, game day shoot-arounds and walk-throughs, medical treatment, etc. Oh, yeah, and the games themselves.
Drew was uniquely good at time management; he somehow squeezed his academic demands into gaps in his day. We’d see him occasionally in the hotel; he usually looked exhausted.
Was it a privilege to play a sport in the PAC10? On scholarship? Of course. And this was Stanford, which provided all the academic and related support necessary. And conference travel, from early January through mid-March, never took him more than one time zone away.
But it was incredibly demanding. Now, imagine all student-athletes in all sports (except, of course, football) dealing with the same or similar demands, and add travel across two or three time zones. How can it be anything but detrimental to the student-athletes, academically and personally? Has anyone pondered those impacts and what it’ll take to address them?
It’s nuts. Absolutely nuts.
Some of you know I worked at universities for almost two decades. I worked very closely with presidents and AD’s. Chris Hill is absolutely correct: AD’s can’t--and won’t--publicly renounce decisions made by their presidents. (Neither would most head football coaches.)
Might any presidents actually push back? Gene Block could have, over a year ago--he’s retiring. Carol Folt could have--a year ago, she was still in somewhat of a honeymoon period at USC. But there’s not much institutional conscience there, and she was weakened by the Mike Bohn fiasco.
As for the other presidents, you might be surprised by their relative disengagement about athletics. They’re wrestling other alligators--restless faculty, chasing private and public support, handling crises. They leave athletics to their AD’s. And truthfully, many AD’s privately prefer it that way.
I'd be interested in your perspective, but to my eye, over the past ~20 years or so, it has appeared more presidents / chancellors have intentionally dis-engaged, and done everything possible to shift attention and accountability onto ADs. Zero political capital - internally or with donors - is allocated to athletics unless it's unavoidable.
I think that’s fair. Obvious contextual variations, but generally over the last couple decades the job itself became much more politically fraught. For most presidents, the survival calculus has shifted to risk avoidance. And athletics brings enormous reputation (for all) and financial (for all but the very top of the pyramid) risk.
How can it be anything but detrimental? Let me list some: They learn:
1. Time management.
2. The value of hard work.
3. That choices have consequences.
4. Adaptation skills.
5. How to multi-task.
6. How to prioritize.
7. How to overcome obstacles and maximize opportunities.
Want me to go on? Really, what are we protecting these kids from...growing up? These are deliberate decisions these kids are making--no one forced them to play sports. So let them live it out with real-life merits and demerits. I played a non-revenue sport in college, but quit because I just couldn't do it all. So what...life went on.
You stated "how could it be anything but detrimental, i.e., it is only detrimental to travel across country. I gave some non-detrimental possibilities.
Is it the optimum way to schedule non-revenue sports? No. Exhausting? Yes. Life can be that way. Can it work? Yes.
I definitely didn’t intend to suggest that my son’s experience was ‘detrimental.’ Let’s respectfully agree to disagree about adding cross-country travel to conference competition.
Just like ex-Oregon State president Ed Ray did with Larry Scott. Ed Ray was a good girl for Larry Scott. Unlike Ed Ray, Mullens was playing chess, not checkers.
Hill served alongside Larry and Pac-12 presidents. And didn't call them out? Did Utah turn down the money that flows from having 1 True Football Champion? The increased money from the CBB Tournament constantly expanding and sending teams hither and yon to play 1st round games. Was he upset when Utah abandoned Mountain West brethren to join the Pac Conference so Utah could make more money?
Chip's UCLA salary is $6.2M before bonuses in 2024. How much money has Chip and his agent donated to make travel easier for UCLA's non-revenue sports athletes?
SMH the other day when Sports Illustrated reporter Pat Forde on the Paul Finebaum show of all places, decried schools like Cal and Stanford being left behind. How often in the last few years has SI run featured articles on Cal and Stanford? How many stories have SI run on the Ivy League and D3 football?
I find the hypocrisy of people associated with and making a living off of big-time college sports, like Mr. Hill, Chip, Chip's agent, and Pat Forde, as being off-the-charts astounding.
BTW, the NIL boats of many non-revenue sports athletes will be lifted by their marketing representatives, (AGENTS, right Reggie?) being able to market their NIL coast-to-coast.
Sorry for all of the farriers and blacksmiths out there, but we no longer live in a horse-and-buggy economy. College Football is the lead money maker in a fully capitalized college sports scene. And people are surprised when bigger brands in college sports affiliate with other bigger brands and leave smaller brands behind. Come On Folks!
And you just made Chip Kelly's argument for him. Spin off college football from the NCAA sports and let it compete in a 64 team A league much like NCAA basketball. The rest are in the B league. And make these leagues dynamic or relegated so there is movement between A and B. I am fine with that solution.
I see this as a complete pipe dream until such time there is a Premier League with 32 or so teams with one commissioner.
I think Chip's idea is a solution in search of a problem. The B1G recognizes the travel difficulties non-revenue sports athletes will face and will schedule accordingly. There will not be weekly East/West travel for non-revenue sports teams. I expect that we will see many 'jamboree-like' events with multiple teams playing at the same venue. And I also see, for example, Maryland's volleyball team coming West and playing all 4 schools on the West Coast. Having a laptop today means that you can attend class virtually in real-time or later when convenient.
Likewise, the B12 is not going to frequently send its Western located nonrevenue sports to West Virginia and UCF and vice versa. And when looking at W VA, I do not see its nonrevenue sports athletes unduly suffering from travel in the B12 I have not seen these athletes going on strike or filing Title 9 complaints in regard to travel differences, charter vs commercial, for the moneyball sports versus the non-revenue sports.
Today, if a non-revenue 'student-athlete' is not happy about increased travel she and he can transfer to schools with lesser travel demands without having to sit out a season.
BTW, the distance from Seattle to LA is 1,335 miles. The distance from Lincoln, Nebraska to Piscataway, NJ is 1,453 miles. I do not recall folks freaking out over non-revenue sports travel when Nebraska joined the B1G.
Jon, my take is different. Chris & Chip are operating in the system they were presented, and grew up in. No reason I see why they should not try to enrich themselves and provide legs up for thier families. By being in that system and seeing it go off the cliff as it related to football, they see a better way and voice it out. This is truly to me, a ‘with age comes wisdom’ position
Media.com - Check out the average number of viewers watching 131 G5/P5 play football games last season.
12. Oregon - 2.210M/ 34. Washington - 1.150M
41. Washington State - 907K/ 45 Cal - 857K/ 47. Stanford 846K/ 57 Oregon State 625K
It's not just media market size. Ohio State located in mid-market size Columbus, Ohio, came in ranked 1. with 5.8M viewers a game, but also eyes on the prize. Wazzu in Pullman drew more viewers than the Bay Area schools and Oregon State.
If you do not believe that Oregon has more media brand cache than Oregon State what can I tell you?
I think if I am an athlete in a non-revenue-generating sport I’d start looking at smaller more regional schools to get my education, so I can focus on preparing for the rest of my life, and enjoy my four years in college. UW provided a free education to my wife so long as she hit a little white ball around some of the best course in the Western USA for them for 4 years. I think she still holds the course record in Pullman she told me that golf was different because of how their tourneys were played but it would still be a drag to cross time zones. Everyone pays here.
On another note. As a Beaver fan, the best way for this to end is for the Beavs to walk into Autzen, beat them, and walk away never to play again. Let their last memory to be one of defeat. And, let them feel their self serving betrayal for years. ThT would be epic.
For you are right, that they acted in their own short term perceived financial best interest, they didn’t seem to consider all the other costs involved. One of the callers from UO called it a break up. I like the metaphor. The one who left is the megalomaniac, and they will end up regretting it on the end.
I'm a Ducks fan and I agree with you...with one minor caveat. I hope the Beavs run the table this year - they're going to take a terrible recruiting and coaching staff hit in future years. Beat everybody on their conference schedule this year - including Oregon - and when Oregon wises up and comes dragging back to the west with hat in hand, and John Karl Scholz is history, bring them back. From that humbling moment on, I'll again root for the Ducks to bury the Beavs...every year.
Respectfully disagree the the Beavers will suffer massive coaching losses as a result if this. You are assuming that those schools that got screwed by the colluders will not react. Wheels are in motion to resurrect the PAC in some form, and i believe that Apple will indeed play a part in that. The streaming option with their advanced technology iz the path forward, and the reconstructed PAC will not be encumbered with what will be obsolete media access by the time the other existing media rights packages expire. Apple streaming would give them world wide distribution.
After all the talk of Apple putting forth a streaming-only proposal, wouldn't it be wild if they supersized my idea of buying a cheap, low-rated cable network and ended up buying ESPN? That would certainly provide the linear TV outlet that was so sadly lacking in the eyes of the "Pac-10" conference decision makers when they were considering Apple's proposal.
Well played, Jim. Positive. Charlie
Awful lot of truth to what you say...particularly regarding Apple and their streaming potential. Completely agree with you.
Hope your rosy outlook holds true. Your new College President better
be a lot smarter than she’s
proven so far.
I'd love to see the PAC 4 join the SEC...
Awesome idea of Beavs beating Ducks at Autzen and virtually dropping the mic forever!!🦫🦫🦫
Here, here...not all change is progress. In addition, it's shocking how many times people in leadership positions don't take into consideration the law of unintended consequences.
Agree. When OSU ad WSU leaders demanded that big media pay $50 mil for our media rights, the chain of events following have been their unintended consequences. Go Dawgs
I believe you are mistaken about the $50mm counter offer. That was much earlier in this process and ESPN was involved. It was in response to certain PAC-12 members (now departed and now shown to be part of the clandestine plan that was enabled to blow up the PAC.) it certainly did not come at the behest of WSU or OSU. This kind of ill informed input from you simply muddies the already turbulent waters.
Talk to me after a couple of seasons of flying to the East Coast to take part in the most menial athletic competitions for .50 on the dollar. Hope the Dawgs have great accountants.
Yeah that was UO that forced the $50 million counter to ESPN,, not OSU and Wazzu
Ok so you think its better that OSU wins their last game against Oregon and never play the . Civil war again even though it would clearly be OSU's biggest football payday every year. Sure makes sense to have those schools who already can stay and play in a national conference in all sports to "own it" and ignore their fellow state schools left behind. Who really wins with that approach, but go Beavs! as this guy who lives in Corvallis is hoping for a little more enlightenment and objectivity from fans who think its a betrayal to try to keep big time football in the Northwest that the move to the Big10 allows for UO and UW.
I didn't have a wife who played D1 sports, but I did have 2 daughters who had full ride scholarships 50 miles from home but both chose to leave the state to get the most competitive college experience even though it cost them more personally. Last night I talked to one of the lawyers who helped finalize the Oregon to Big10 deal and his take was the Oregon athletes beyond football all seem pretty excited for the move. Maybe he was blowing smoke and there will be regret in the future, but I doubt it. Still I will be surprised if the remaining 4 schools can create a more competitive conference for the other sports than they could if they kept the 8 West Coast schools together. Stanford seems to be working hard to try to go national right now so we will see. I really hope someone works on a solution for the athletes sake and Oregon State's sake.
How many other athletes did this lawyer talk to one on one, in a nonstressful environment. This reminds of the joke that the marketing committee reports that "90% of people that returned the survey say they enjoy doing surveys"
I suspect the last thought if Beavs win would be
Ducks 31-24-3 in Eugene
Ducks 32-22-6 in Corvallis
And on your deathbed you'll have eternal consciousness. So you'll have that going for you.
The lasting impression will be of Knight School that left precisely at the juncture when it became crystal clear that all Phil's money couldn't get them past OSU on the field.
I don't think Knight is sweating too much. Since he got involved with donations in 1994, the Ducks are 20-9-0 vs OSU.
But, there will always be 2004: Beavs 50, Ducks 21 in Corvallis.
Nothing like a blessing from the Dalai Lama: "hit the long ball, did the Dollie". Love it and Carl.
Duck alum and fan here. The education is never free. It’s an exchange of the athletes time, labor, and skill set. I don’t think Beaver fans would be as salty if the roles were reversed.
Well played, Stephen. Thoughtful. Charlie
I've said before that I don't see Oregon, say volleyball, traveling regularly to Maryland, Pennsylvania and New Jersey. And vice-versa. It would be ironic, wouldn't it, to have Oregon Stage and Washington State to end up being the non-revenue sport power houses in the Pac NW?
My thoughts exactly. If the remaining PAC schools join the Mountain West or recreate the PAC with schools on the Western half of the US, then this realignment has got to cause the non-football sports teams of the remaining PAC schools become much more attractive to athletes from the West Coast who want their parents to see them play close to home or those who have the wisdom to care about their mental well-being.
It's humorous to me that after dispensing with so many other traditions, anyone is still clinging to the notion that it's important for revenue and non-revenue sports to play a common set of opponents.
It's just silly.
You apparently haven't been to many conference championships in those sports. I have...and seen many more on TV. There's a lot of excitement in playing a traditional opponent in any sport.
I attend many more Olympic sports (eg, wrestling, volleyball) than revenue sports, including where they play in separate conferences that result in more sustainable travel and scheduling.
It's very clear at this point that football will not be funding other sports at historical levels in perpetuity, and the sooner the rationalization takes place, the fewer opportunities (scholarships) will ultimately be lost.
When one gets a true accounting of athletic income and total expenditures, it is often the case that not only is academics subsidizing athletics through hidden accounts, but even those who have enough athletic money left over to help academics do so only after spending the maximum possible on their "moneymaker". Just sayin', Charlie
Can not speak for JoeDelaney but at that risk JD would likely agree there is interest in non-revenue sport competition but no particular reason besides a lingering, rapidly dissipating and romantic notion a football conference is also volleyball, track and even basketball conference. Much less all a university's sports teams must be in the same conference.
Yeah, the MPSF is a perfect example of a conference that functions well with a far more sustainable model.
I think it's silly that casual fans, and not alumni, have the biggest voice. The ability to have a rivalry with the university in your backyard means so much more than one across the nation... It's only casual TV fans that don't understand this
Well played, Joe. Charlie
Yep. As I just posted, a lot of very good athletes in sports I enjoy--softball, volleyball, women's basketball--could avoid the travel idiocy, and families unable to watch them play, and decide to stay in the Pac-12 area. At OSU and WSU and Cal and Stanford.
As a father of 2 D1 athletes I can you tell that my kids wanted the best competition and weren't willing to take D2 full scholarships to be closer to home and took lesser money at more competitive schools farther away. The programs have to be the most competitive and I believe the Big 10 national conference with USC, UCLA, UW, and Oregon added would be a lot more competitive than whatever the PAC4 remaining put together. Still those 8 together would be an incredible conference in the sports beyond football. Add Gonzaga and it would be amazing.
It's all conceptual for 17-18 year-old athletes. My hunch is after the first year of tons of travel and sleepless nights and working extra hard to keep grades up and no mom/dad/friends at away games, the Portal might just get plenty of use. Especially when there's no 6-7 figure pro sports contract down the road. Just a hunch.
You may be right, we will see, I just hope we could be smarter than all this and Chip's right.
Unfortunately, the "we" seems to be 12 campus "leaders" who are generally clueless about sports, and may not be getting as broad a perspective on viewpoints as they would find useful. I'd posit NONE of them have had sit-downs with athletes on their campuses not participating in football or men's hoops. Leaders not smart enough to listen to those they "lead" do not have much hope of leaving any sort of admirable legacy.
I think you are correct
You could email my wife. She hardly ever hears anyone say that.
It makes a lot of sense to separate football into its own universe and regionalize other sports. But my guess is that all these universities will need to suffer the pain of these crazy realignments for a few seasons before more level heads prevail.
I think you may be right.
This makes so much sense--but when did sense ever overrule money? I feel for these athletes and wonder if any will decide it's not worth it any more.
Greed Uber Alles seems to have become the hue-and-cry this past decade. And we are far, far worse for it.
The various campuses of the University of California are rated as 6 of the top 10 public universities in the nation. So you would think that the Regents of the University of California are dedicated to research and academics.
Given a chance to stand up for academics last December, they chose not to do so. They could have blocked UCLA's plan. Or they could have required that the move be a "football only" move.
The Regents were presented with a survey of UCLA athletes that revealed that more than 70% of athletes were concerned about the travel that would be required to compete in the BIG TEN.
Yet the Regents voted 11-5 in favor of grabbing FOX's money instead of prioritizing academic and protecting student health.
If the Regents of the #1 public university in the world are going to pimp the athletes to grab more money -- is there any hope that a good idea (like Chip's) will ever be embraced? Perhaps it will if it can be shown that Chip's idea is more profitable.
Thr high ranking of CA schools will soon be a thing of the past.
The UC and CSU are having real problems with academics in the last five or so years. They stopped caring about academics once they began chasing equity.
I have many friends that are professors at many of the CA universities.
They made it easier for minorities from low income areas to enter the schools, but far more of those students weren't prepared, so they put them in remedial classes to catch up to university standards.
However, they found that the remedial classes had high percentages of minorities, and instead of wondering how K-12 was failing them, they decided remedial classes were racist... So they shut them down and they don't exist anymore.
Without remedial classes, they just shove kids in math and English classes that they are not prepared for. So no surprise, almost all of these kids were failing. They found most of these kids were minorities, so again blamed it on a racist grading system, and forced professors to lower expectations and rigor.
This is just now hitting the upper level courses, that expect a certain level of background in math and English that the students don't have. Professors are right now lowering those expectations.
The UC and CSU schools will eventually drop hard on academics.
Gene Block started the Pac 12s mess. And now the coward is retiring.
The LA Times reported that the UC regents would have voted to keep UCLA in the conference IF GL could have ensured that UCLA had a payout of $52m per year.
Oregon’s interim president shot it down because they would be damned if they’d be in the same conference making half of what UCLA did.
The irony is not only did that happen, it probably would have forced USC to reconsider had Oregon said yes
Well played, Mike; you make a beautiful case. Charlie
Woaaa Nelly as a famous Pac-8 Rose Bowl announcer used to say....Governor Newsom tried to stop this move, but in the end it was not about "grabbing Fox's money" in any way. It was because the Regents had ceded the power to do exactly what occurred to the schools and so if they had tried to stop UCLA it would have resulted in a legal mess. What they did do is make sure UCLA ponied up some of that BIG 10 money to Cal, but who knows what that will be now.
How are UC regents appointed?
Similar to a Supreme Court justice. A regent is nominated by the Governor and confirmed by the State Senate. Unlike the Supreme Court, a regent has a term of 12 years. So these folks are all politically connected.
Awesome John. Such a simple solution for non-football sports/ athletes and yet so difficult for Pac-12 leaders to actually lead. Again, until CFB nuts like me find a better more enjoyable way to spend 14 hours on a fall Saturday, this madness will continue.
The best 14 hours of every week in the fall for me
If I can be serious for a minute.
While this makes some sense, speaking as a fan of one of the teams devastated by this greed-driven realignment, I say make them own it. Pack your suitcases and take your toothbrushes. USC, UCLA, Oregon and Washington did this to the Pac-12 and destroyed 108 years of tradition. So have fun flying your volleyball, baseball, softball, golf and basketball teams to West Lafayette, Bloomington, New Brunswick and College Park. You deserve it.
If I were Oregon State, Washington State, Cal (or ?Stanford?), don't help them out. You've been totally F'd over. Use this opportunity strengthen your non-revenue sports by selling regionality to your recruits and letting parents know they'll be able to watch their kids games in person.
I'm looking forward to seeing Oregon State baseball in Omaha again and the Ducks as roadkill alongside the New Jersey Turnpike.
Amen brother!
They picked up the handle and the baggage comes with it.
They got the flavor. They get the calories.
Eff em!
Love the sayings. Clever!
Lol. Like I said to Evil B, if the roles were reversed, Oregon State would of done the same.
No we wouldn't.
Lol. Keep telling yourself that.
Wow. You are probably are one that thinks WSU shouldn't play UW in the Apple Cup or have the game formerly called the Civil war played even though it would clearly be WSU & OSU's biggest football payday every year. Sure makes sense to have those schools who already can stay and play in a national conference in all sports to "own it" and ignore their fellow state schools left behind. Who really wins with that approach, but go Beavs! as this guy who lives in Corvallis is hoping for a little more enlightenment and objectivity from fans "left behind" vs creatively working together to improve it for all West Coast student athletes beyond football.
Lol. If the roles were reversed, Oregon State would of done the same.
Kudos to Hill for being a constructive voice, unlike many of his retired AD peers who are getting fat at the consulting fee trough by feeding this anxiety on one side and then selling "strategic advice" on the other side to those who have to deal with it.
Folks, it time to wake up. Corporate America runs this country. A corporation created our opioid crisis. Corporations are ruining our environment. They are literally working people to death. Corporations are killing college sports. You can't stop it. Nothing, including our government, will stand up to these monsters. It's a miracle all this didn't happen 10 years ago. Just turn on the TV and watch. You will. I will. As for swimmers and wrestlers......they are the pawns......just like we all are under the weight of corporate America. You can either focus on it and go mad.........or look away and towards the light.....if you can find it.
Actually, there IS a way to stop it and that is a variable tax rate. The bigger the company the higher the tax rate. Very small companies get very small tax rates, rather than one size fits all as is the case today. If you tax the H-ll out of big companies they will break up into smaller companies, which are more innovative anyway. Big = bureaucracy = inefficiency (and poor decision making). Universities suffer the same fate, though the tax system can't be used to break them up. But how much more effective would a university be if all the colleges (engineering school for example) were spun off into separate entities who have to sink or swim on their own? Get rid of all that executive management, and all the BS social engineering / indoctrination departments within that executive structure
Or, bring back trust-buster Teddy Roosevelt. Or, don't they teach about that in school anymore. "The one thing we learn from history is that we don't learn from history." Georg Wilhelm Friedrich Hegel
Well played Scott, very well played. Before he died George Carlin gave an interview where he stated "I stopped voting because it doesn't matter, Corporate America owns the government and calls all the shots, so it doesn't matter beyond that". John Cleese says in another interview, "It's over, you can't change it, so don't wast energy trying". Neither of these opinions is recent.
Wrong. The old adage,
“The only thing necessary for the triumph of evil is for good men to do nothing,”
Bread and circuses. Sports are the opiate of the masses. Along with opiates and religion.
Thank you, Karl, for the enlightening revelation of the source if all evils.
So, they choose to leave..chasing the “all mighty $”, and the Beavs, Cougs, Bears, and Cardinal should all let them back in to play in the PAC-12 for the rest of the sports, minus football and maybe Men’s basketball. Eliminating any chance for the 4 to rebuild and at least try to stay relevant in football. Yeah....No. You left, you chased the $, you deal with the consequences. Lord knows the 4 above are dealing the consequences of your actions.
Without money from football there are no other sports. You can't separate football from the rest. You just can't
Facts!
Totally agree. This is a no-brainer. When USC, for example, chose to leave the Pac-12, they leave entirely. They own all of the sports programs. If travel becomes a significant problem, and it will, the departed universities find a home for them in another conference. Just not the Pac-12.
We SHOULD allow them into the pac for nonrevenue sports.... But at a cost... Make it worth our while financially
I live here in Corvallis and I am a platypus (Oregon grad school, 11 years teaching at OSU), but I am a realist. The TV money is about football and brands which the Big10 got the 4 biggest.
Wouldn't it be better if we kept the value of the Conference of Champions in all other sports including men's and women's bball and start monetizing it separately from football than let everything die out. The 4 PAC4 schools have more to lose than USC/UCLA/UW, & Oregon in those sports especially Stanford who seems hell bent to leave OSU & WSU behind and doesn't seem interested in the MWC. Maybe they could live with it in football or go independent in football like UConn. Still there is opportunity to work together to increase value for all in these other sports and do what makes sense. If not the 4 West Coast schools will continue on its path and will embrace the national conference they're already in as the Big10 which Stanford would love to join.
All valid points.
Great column!
This is a post from someone I coached in college. Now she’s a head coach at a power 5 school herself ~
DECISION-MAKERS… PAY ATTENTION… This IS something!
My 5 yrs at my previous Power5 institution, and I’m a GROWN woman with a family, not a college kid trying to figure out life - I spent 10 3-day weekends on the road for 3 months to compete, with the expectation to WIN in the spring season. Do the math on how many days we were actually in the comforts of our home and on campus to be in classrooms (stop forgetting that athletes need to be in classes to get a degree).
I watched my athletes study for final exams in airports - enduring flight delays that got them home at 4am with a final to ACE at 8am. The travel was brutal and there was no way around it. Not every school has been, nor will be able to afford traveling in charter planes
(at some institutions I know 😉 only RANKED teams got the luxury of charter flights and those were all sports who play in fall/winter season and don’t endure weather delays to get the games played, and play less than a 3-5 game weekend series (more like, 1-2 competition(s) and fly home) (ya feel me 😉)
ONE MIGHT ARGUE THE TEAMS’ RANKING IS CONNECTED WITH THE CHARTER FLIGHT TRAVEL ACCOMMODATIONS that offer the benefit of REST, RECOVERY, MENTAL WELL-BEING — INVESTMENTS IN BETTER TRAVEL ACCOMMODATIONS SHOW AN INVESTMENT IN THE PEOPLE/ATHLETES — NOT INVESTING IN SUCH, SHOWS A LACK OF VALUE ONE HAS FOR THESE PEOPLE/ATHLETES.
I will never work, live and experience that again …because… NO ONE CARES about your mental and physical exhaustion - just THE WINS. And that is not happiness, or a way to WIN at Life!
These decision-makers need to try living and playing in a season like this before you make moves like that.
God Save the SA’s, coaches and staff.
Well played, Jackie. Here's hoping someone who could do something is reading. Charlie
The same arguments made here about the impacts on participants in non-revenue sports applies to men’s basketball--the “other” revenue sport. Let me tell you all a story to illustrate the point.
Our son played basketball at Stanford (‘06 - ‘10). We traveled regularly, including all of the two-game swings to OR, AZ and LA and to Seattle (Pullman was just too remote for our schedules.)
The games pretty consistently were Thursday/Saturday; an occasional Sunday. They usually flew out on Wednesday and returned Sunday; players missed at least two in-person class days.
And the demands on their time away from home were extraordinary--film sessions, team meetings/meals, scouting reports, game day shoot-arounds and walk-throughs, medical treatment, etc. Oh, yeah, and the games themselves.
Drew was uniquely good at time management; he somehow squeezed his academic demands into gaps in his day. We’d see him occasionally in the hotel; he usually looked exhausted.
Was it a privilege to play a sport in the PAC10? On scholarship? Of course. And this was Stanford, which provided all the academic and related support necessary. And conference travel, from early January through mid-March, never took him more than one time zone away.
But it was incredibly demanding. Now, imagine all student-athletes in all sports (except, of course, football) dealing with the same or similar demands, and add travel across two or three time zones. How can it be anything but detrimental to the student-athletes, academically and personally? Has anyone pondered those impacts and what it’ll take to address them?
It’s nuts. Absolutely nuts.
Some of you know I worked at universities for almost two decades. I worked very closely with presidents and AD’s. Chris Hill is absolutely correct: AD’s can’t--and won’t--publicly renounce decisions made by their presidents. (Neither would most head football coaches.)
Might any presidents actually push back? Gene Block could have, over a year ago--he’s retiring. Carol Folt could have--a year ago, she was still in somewhat of a honeymoon period at USC. But there’s not much institutional conscience there, and she was weakened by the Mike Bohn fiasco.
As for the other presidents, you might be surprised by their relative disengagement about athletics. They’re wrestling other alligators--restless faculty, chasing private and public support, handling crises. They leave athletics to their AD’s. And truthfully, many AD’s privately prefer it that way.
I’m not optimistic.
I'd be interested in your perspective, but to my eye, over the past ~20 years or so, it has appeared more presidents / chancellors have intentionally dis-engaged, and done everything possible to shift attention and accountability onto ADs. Zero political capital - internally or with donors - is allocated to athletics unless it's unavoidable.
I think that’s fair. Obvious contextual variations, but generally over the last couple decades the job itself became much more politically fraught. For most presidents, the survival calculus has shifted to risk avoidance. And athletics brings enormous reputation (for all) and financial (for all but the very top of the pyramid) risk.
How can it be anything but detrimental? Let me list some: They learn:
1. Time management.
2. The value of hard work.
3. That choices have consequences.
4. Adaptation skills.
5. How to multi-task.
6. How to prioritize.
7. How to overcome obstacles and maximize opportunities.
Want me to go on? Really, what are we protecting these kids from...growing up? These are deliberate decisions these kids are making--no one forced them to play sports. So let them live it out with real-life merits and demerits. I played a non-revenue sport in college, but quit because I just couldn't do it all. So what...life went on.
Did I say it was detrimental? I said it was exhausting.
And I reassert that to expect student-athletes to travel cross-country for “conference” competition is idiotic.
You stated "how could it be anything but detrimental, i.e., it is only detrimental to travel across country. I gave some non-detrimental possibilities.
Is it the optimum way to schedule non-revenue sports? No. Exhausting? Yes. Life can be that way. Can it work? Yes.
I definitely didn’t intend to suggest that my son’s experience was ‘detrimental.’ Let’s respectfully agree to disagree about adding cross-country travel to conference competition.
OK, fair enough. Again, I agree with you that it's not ideal. I just don't see it as damaging as most others here.
And where is Rob Mullens hiding now? Oh, I know, right behind PhilKnights backside. Kissing his you know what.
Just like ex-Oregon State president Ed Ray did with Larry Scott. Ed Ray was a good girl for Larry Scott. Unlike Ed Ray, Mullens was playing chess, not checkers.
...yes...when he isn't kissing John Karl Scholz's butt...
Hill served alongside Larry and Pac-12 presidents. And didn't call them out? Did Utah turn down the money that flows from having 1 True Football Champion? The increased money from the CBB Tournament constantly expanding and sending teams hither and yon to play 1st round games. Was he upset when Utah abandoned Mountain West brethren to join the Pac Conference so Utah could make more money?
Chip's UCLA salary is $6.2M before bonuses in 2024. How much money has Chip and his agent donated to make travel easier for UCLA's non-revenue sports athletes?
SMH the other day when Sports Illustrated reporter Pat Forde on the Paul Finebaum show of all places, decried schools like Cal and Stanford being left behind. How often in the last few years has SI run featured articles on Cal and Stanford? How many stories have SI run on the Ivy League and D3 football?
I find the hypocrisy of people associated with and making a living off of big-time college sports, like Mr. Hill, Chip, Chip's agent, and Pat Forde, as being off-the-charts astounding.
BTW, the NIL boats of many non-revenue sports athletes will be lifted by their marketing representatives, (AGENTS, right Reggie?) being able to market their NIL coast-to-coast.
Sorry for all of the farriers and blacksmiths out there, but we no longer live in a horse-and-buggy economy. College Football is the lead money maker in a fully capitalized college sports scene. And people are surprised when bigger brands in college sports affiliate with other bigger brands and leave smaller brands behind. Come On Folks!
And you just made Chip Kelly's argument for him. Spin off college football from the NCAA sports and let it compete in a 64 team A league much like NCAA basketball. The rest are in the B league. And make these leagues dynamic or relegated so there is movement between A and B. I am fine with that solution.
I see this as a complete pipe dream until such time there is a Premier League with 32 or so teams with one commissioner.
I think Chip's idea is a solution in search of a problem. The B1G recognizes the travel difficulties non-revenue sports athletes will face and will schedule accordingly. There will not be weekly East/West travel for non-revenue sports teams. I expect that we will see many 'jamboree-like' events with multiple teams playing at the same venue. And I also see, for example, Maryland's volleyball team coming West and playing all 4 schools on the West Coast. Having a laptop today means that you can attend class virtually in real-time or later when convenient.
Likewise, the B12 is not going to frequently send its Western located nonrevenue sports to West Virginia and UCF and vice versa. And when looking at W VA, I do not see its nonrevenue sports athletes unduly suffering from travel in the B12 I have not seen these athletes going on strike or filing Title 9 complaints in regard to travel differences, charter vs commercial, for the moneyball sports versus the non-revenue sports.
Today, if a non-revenue 'student-athlete' is not happy about increased travel she and he can transfer to schools with lesser travel demands without having to sit out a season.
BTW, the distance from Seattle to LA is 1,335 miles. The distance from Lincoln, Nebraska to Piscataway, NJ is 1,453 miles. I do not recall folks freaking out over non-revenue sports travel when Nebraska joined the B1G.
Jon, my take is different. Chris & Chip are operating in the system they were presented, and grew up in. No reason I see why they should not try to enrich themselves and provide legs up for thier families. By being in that system and seeing it go off the cliff as it related to football, they see a better way and voice it out. This is truly to me, a ‘with age comes wisdom’ position
Facts!
But you are wrong, UW and UO aren't bigger brands, they just live in bigger markets. Get over yourself
Media.com - Check out the average number of viewers watching 131 G5/P5 play football games last season.
12. Oregon - 2.210M/ 34. Washington - 1.150M
41. Washington State - 907K/ 45 Cal - 857K/ 47. Stanford 846K/ 57 Oregon State 625K
It's not just media market size. Ohio State located in mid-market size Columbus, Ohio, came in ranked 1. with 5.8M viewers a game, but also eyes on the prize. Wazzu in Pullman drew more viewers than the Bay Area schools and Oregon State.
If you do not believe that Oregon has more media brand cache than Oregon State what can I tell you?