Question for JC: How much sway does Barry Alvarez still hold over the Wisc. football program? Just curious. (One of the highlights of the UO-UW Rose Bowl broadcast was the cut-away shots of BA getting pissy with his grandkid when things weren’t going well for the Badgers on the field. Simultaneously funny and kinda sad.)
Karl Dorell was not a good hire in the first place. He'd spent 11 of the previous 12 seasons in the NFL, and his prior record as a college head coach was mostly mediocre. I know CU was put in a bad spot when Mel Tucker skipped town right after Signing Day, and with a pandemic looming. But still, hard to believe that was the best they could do.
The Chryst firing is a shocker. I wonder how much of that had to do with his interim replacement, DC Jim Leonhard? Leonhard has been getting a lot of mention lately as the next hot assistant for a head job, and Wisconsin probably knew he wouldn't be around next season as a coordinator. Maybe they pulled the plug on Chryst faster than they would have otherwise just to get their guy in Leonhard? Maybe we'll find out, but I'll be very surprised if Leonhard doesn't get the job full time after the season (or maybe even sooner). But he'll need to demonstrate he has some sort of solution for that anemic offense first.
I’ve often wondered about how much patience should be considered, when the “new coach” comes in and immediately turns things around, winning much more the next year. What would the previous coach have done with the same 1 more year.
In Frosts case, is he actually the difference between losing by 5, and losing by 20?
Now with the transfer portal, it’s much harder to assess last guy vs this guy. An entire new football team in the past 13 months between USC and Oregon alone (50 and 30 new players respectively)
I am going from memory here, but a few things on Rich Brooks. I was in elementary school when he started, but my dad was high school football coach in the area, which entitled us to two free GA (remember those?) tickets to EVERY home game(!). So, we went. You could see the Ducks were making progress.. playing teams tougher (and beating the Beavers, which mattered...a lot), then in year 3 or 4 he got a JC transfer QB, Reggie Ogburn, and they had a couple winning years. A couple bad years followed (love Jorgy...but...), then they signed local boy Chris Miller, brought him in halfway through his frosh yr and you could see that things were going the right way (yes... the Toilet Bowl year). He also kept Steve Greatwood and Mike Walter from leaving. This was when the memory of Dick Harter "losing" Danny Ainge to BYU was pretty fresh. After Miller's frosh year, you could see things were going the right direction. But man...I remember the "Ditch Rich" t shirts while tailgaiting at the old Elks Club (BPOE!!). Bud Withers was writing for the RG in those days. He would be a great guy to have on, as would Ron Bellamy. Both those guys had a front row seat to that era. Key to the story, in my opinion, is Jim Haney was largely failing in succeeding Dick Harter. That was a big problem at the time.
I was very happy that Wilsox turned down the U of O job, he is not a proven coach. Wanted the Chipster back, but I see why he stayed at U CLA. Now that he and the USC coach will each get about $40 million more, yearly, than any Pac-12 school in two years, probably had something to do with it! Lanning will a good hire, as any SEC program is miles ahead of the JVs in the Pac-12 in football. Even if USC runs the table, or UCLA, they will not make the final four. Alabama, Ohio State, Clemson, and Georgia are still my picks. SEC , Big 10, and ACC are years ahead of the Pac-12 in football and pulling away. If you think streaming like amazon prime will save the Pac-12, you need to get out your calculator again. Unless ESPN bails out the Pac-12, which I doubt, it will be years before the Ducks can play with Alabama or Georgia. I am a Duck fan, and wish we could compete with the big boys, but it will not happen without a huge amount of cash coming in very soon.
This is what it was all for. Big10 realignment messed up decades of traditional match ups and common sense geography so that (1) wealthy TV people can be more wealthy and (2) nonprofit universities not named Ohio State, Michigan, Penn State, and maybe USC can fire their coach every 2-4 years in a carousel of false hope and unreasonable expectations.
John you should see if you can get Hugh Millen on your show to talk about the coaching timelines in particular.
Back when the huskies were wallowing post Tyrone, he did some extensive spreadsheet work on all the coaching hires and basically came to the conclusion that if they didn’t show meaningful serious progress by year three, they never were going to, and he had the data to back it up
Don James had some lulls that wouldn’t be tolerated anymore
World has changed on this for sure.
I would also argue that it probably should have a tighter leash now since so much has changed with scholarship limits and now the portal and NIL
A coach needs to be able to turn the roster and make it pop within a year or two - maybe 3 depending upon program and starting situation - or they basically never will anymore
I have long thought a Top 25 tournament for D1 football would take a lot of pressure off Head Coaches.
Invite 25 teams. Play nine games between Christmas and New Year’s Eve to get down to 16 teams. Then play three rounds throughout Jan, and play the Final on the Sunday before the Super Bowl. Fun and enormously profitable.
That way a team like this year’s Oregon Ducks can still make a run to #1, despite the debacle vs. Georgia on their opening game.
Would fans, alums, and athletic directors be more forgiving of a coach whose team has underperformed if that team did well in the postseason “January Jam”? That I do not know.
“where former Badgers coach Gary Andersen first learned how to quit”
Ooof
Totally fair, but damn..
JC bringing the axe
Oregon. Rich Brooks.
Keeping Rich Brooks. The Original Patient Decision that turned out well.
Question for JC: How much sway does Barry Alvarez still hold over the Wisc. football program? Just curious. (One of the highlights of the UO-UW Rose Bowl broadcast was the cut-away shots of BA getting pissy with his grandkid when things weren’t going well for the Badgers on the field. Simultaneously funny and kinda sad.)
Justin Wilcox is in his sixth season at Cal. They're basically in the same place they were in in year one.
Karl Dorell was not a good hire in the first place. He'd spent 11 of the previous 12 seasons in the NFL, and his prior record as a college head coach was mostly mediocre. I know CU was put in a bad spot when Mel Tucker skipped town right after Signing Day, and with a pandemic looming. But still, hard to believe that was the best they could do.
The Chryst firing is a shocker. I wonder how much of that had to do with his interim replacement, DC Jim Leonhard? Leonhard has been getting a lot of mention lately as the next hot assistant for a head job, and Wisconsin probably knew he wouldn't be around next season as a coordinator. Maybe they pulled the plug on Chryst faster than they would have otherwise just to get their guy in Leonhard? Maybe we'll find out, but I'll be very surprised if Leonhard doesn't get the job full time after the season (or maybe even sooner). But he'll need to demonstrate he has some sort of solution for that anemic offense first.
I’ve often wondered about how much patience should be considered, when the “new coach” comes in and immediately turns things around, winning much more the next year. What would the previous coach have done with the same 1 more year.
In Frosts case, is he actually the difference between losing by 5, and losing by 20?
Now with the transfer portal, it’s much harder to assess last guy vs this guy. An entire new football team in the past 13 months between USC and Oregon alone (50 and 30 new players respectively)
Looking forward to your view of what is happening at the Timbers/Thorns this week. Piling on at The Oregonian it seems to me.
Rich Brooks was a players coach! We should have hired him at Oregon State as Head Coach before Oregon hired him!
I am going from memory here, but a few things on Rich Brooks. I was in elementary school when he started, but my dad was high school football coach in the area, which entitled us to two free GA (remember those?) tickets to EVERY home game(!). So, we went. You could see the Ducks were making progress.. playing teams tougher (and beating the Beavers, which mattered...a lot), then in year 3 or 4 he got a JC transfer QB, Reggie Ogburn, and they had a couple winning years. A couple bad years followed (love Jorgy...but...), then they signed local boy Chris Miller, brought him in halfway through his frosh yr and you could see that things were going the right way (yes... the Toilet Bowl year). He also kept Steve Greatwood and Mike Walter from leaving. This was when the memory of Dick Harter "losing" Danny Ainge to BYU was pretty fresh. After Miller's frosh year, you could see things were going the right direction. But man...I remember the "Ditch Rich" t shirts while tailgaiting at the old Elks Club (BPOE!!). Bud Withers was writing for the RG in those days. He would be a great guy to have on, as would Ron Bellamy. Both those guys had a front row seat to that era. Key to the story, in my opinion, is Jim Haney was largely failing in succeeding Dick Harter. That was a big problem at the time.
I was very happy that Wilsox turned down the U of O job, he is not a proven coach. Wanted the Chipster back, but I see why he stayed at U CLA. Now that he and the USC coach will each get about $40 million more, yearly, than any Pac-12 school in two years, probably had something to do with it! Lanning will a good hire, as any SEC program is miles ahead of the JVs in the Pac-12 in football. Even if USC runs the table, or UCLA, they will not make the final four. Alabama, Ohio State, Clemson, and Georgia are still my picks. SEC , Big 10, and ACC are years ahead of the Pac-12 in football and pulling away. If you think streaming like amazon prime will save the Pac-12, you need to get out your calculator again. Unless ESPN bails out the Pac-12, which I doubt, it will be years before the Ducks can play with Alabama or Georgia. I am a Duck fan, and wish we could compete with the big boys, but it will not happen without a huge amount of cash coming in very soon.
Great stuff John! Amazing what those buyouts look like. What other job do you get fired at and win the lottery at same time??
This is what it was all for. Big10 realignment messed up decades of traditional match ups and common sense geography so that (1) wealthy TV people can be more wealthy and (2) nonprofit universities not named Ohio State, Michigan, Penn State, and maybe USC can fire their coach every 2-4 years in a carousel of false hope and unreasonable expectations.
John you should see if you can get Hugh Millen on your show to talk about the coaching timelines in particular.
Back when the huskies were wallowing post Tyrone, he did some extensive spreadsheet work on all the coaching hires and basically came to the conclusion that if they didn’t show meaningful serious progress by year three, they never were going to, and he had the data to back it up
Don James had some lulls that wouldn’t be tolerated anymore
World has changed on this for sure.
I would also argue that it probably should have a tighter leash now since so much has changed with scholarship limits and now the portal and NIL
A coach needs to be able to turn the roster and make it pop within a year or two - maybe 3 depending upon program and starting situation - or they basically never will anymore
I have long thought a Top 25 tournament for D1 football would take a lot of pressure off Head Coaches.
Invite 25 teams. Play nine games between Christmas and New Year’s Eve to get down to 16 teams. Then play three rounds throughout Jan, and play the Final on the Sunday before the Super Bowl. Fun and enormously profitable.
That way a team like this year’s Oregon Ducks can still make a run to #1, despite the debacle vs. Georgia on their opening game.
Would fans, alums, and athletic directors be more forgiving of a coach whose team has underperformed if that team did well in the postseason “January Jam”? That I do not know.
What do you think, John?
Rob Nelson
Portland, Oregon