178 Comments

Comparing the on the field football product between the Pac 12 and the Big 12...... Since 2010, the PAC is 23 and 43 against the Big 12, including 6 and 18 in bowl games

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With every single reported projection and source concluding new Big12 media deal will be larger than the new PAC....And the latest low Media Offer made by ESPN, I dont see why the PAC members think they will be ok or getting any P5 institutions from any other conferences.

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They don't. This is a cheerleader article which is a carbon copy of Jon Wilners, so obviously the conference is begging it's friendly journalists to write puff pieces ignoring the pittance ESPN just offered the conference. No one in Arizona buys it -- we'll be in the Big 12 within 6 months.

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Agreed on the delusional stuff. The careful avoidance of the obvious need to jettison Oregon St and WSU is telling.

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Big 12 Rage Crowd! Charter member!

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Your team ever beat Alabama? 😂😂❤️

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In any debate, (1) false analysis of facts and (2j superficial data manipulation are always tells of which participant is in the weaker position. Clearly the Pac-12 is in a much weaker and perilous position than the Big 12. That much is obvious.

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Nope! PAC 12 is elite. Little 12 is hamburger meat

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Ed, honestly, how can you make either statement?

Our non-conference record lately? Bowl record lately? I think the BigXII has been outperforming us. The Pac 12 other than USC (historical brand) and Oregon are out of mind except on the Coast. The Conference has been falling further and further behind for over a decade. With our two biggest brands and by far out largest market now headed to the BIG, the Pac is in serious trouble. Whether the BigXII is in better or worse shape really doesn't matter anyway. Being the tallest little person in a room with two seven-footers is a bit unremarkable don't you think?.

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It’s numbers. It’s status. It’s the very cool West coast and the nicest cities in America!!

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John,

What are you thoughts on the ESPN media deal of only 24.5 million per school for the New Pac 10????

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There is no such deal.

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I heard that was a starting offer and have not heard of either a counter offer by the Pac conference or a new offer! The exclusive rights window closes on the 4th. Will be watching to see the real offer!!!

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There are programs that draw many viewers because of their excellence and interest. Even though the school itself comes from a small media market does not mean that the team itself is not a valuable asset for a conference. It seems a false assumption to say that the media market size is the end all. Even in a huge market, if a team 'stinks'...there will be little viewership either in person or through the media.

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All depends on the performance of the football program doesn't it? Basketball is at best a breakeven proposition and none of the other sports matter when talking media deals. Frankly, it's getting pretty embarrassing to hear the Conference of Champions nonsense. No one cares except their parents.

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The PAC rules in many sports

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Thanks for the hope, John.

In Wilner's latest mailbag, he says the ACC grant of rights can end with a majority vote. I think it's in the best interests of Clemson, FSU, UNC, UVA, Va Tech, NCState, Louisville, and Miami (or whatever 8 teams make the most sense) to end the GOR and create a new Coastal Athletic Conference with Oregon, UW, Utah, CU, Cal, Stanford, Zona, and ASU.

16 team conference. 7 division games, 2 vs the other division. Title game between the divisions. Some playoff caliber programs, some very good programs, and no awful programs. Huge markets on both coasts. Football all day on Saturday.

That's got to be worth more than the current ACC.

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Clemson, FSU, UNC, UVa, Va Tech, and probably NC State will all be in the Big Ten or SEC as soon as that GOR disappears. They aren't forming a conference where they have to fly cross-country to play Cal, Oregon State, and Washington State. If they merge it will probably be with the Big 12 which makes double what ESPN just offered the Pac 12.

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The ACC grant of rights expires in 2036. It is currently 2022. Are Clemson and FSU really content to sit back for 14 years while the Big10 and SEC lap the field in dollars? It's in their best interest to be proactive here. If a new Coastal Athletic Conference is poached by the Big10 and SEC, so be it, but it's better to establish something than to wait.

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It won't be 14 years -- those schools are being paid way too little to sit there for 14 years and take it. And there are enough of them that would have other landing places that they won't have to sit there for 14 years.

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Very good point.

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Oregon State has a larger TV market, for purposes of TV revenue, than Utah.

Utah seems hot because they finally won a Conference championship, but in reality they are in an isolated market. with a smallish stadium.

They only made it to the Pac 12 because other more desirable teams faded away with the implosion of the possible addition of Texas, Oklahoma, Oklahoma State and Tech.

I frankly question whether the Big 12 would really want them. They are going to take an outsized share of revenue regardless of the Conference they fall into.

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Everything you just said is inaccurate. The Salt Lake Market is huge, has a lot more tv sets than OSU has and is one of the fastest growing markets in the country. Its ranked #30 in the nation and corvallis is way below them. Their stadium seats 52,000 and its sold out every game, not smallish. Its a consistent winner in football and has dominated recently. You must have some real hate issues towards Utah to be so dishonest and so dismissive of them.

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Amen Erica! Utah is exploding and the entire institution is growing.

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I doubt he hates Utah. Likely just a provincial OSU fan. And.... to be fair to him, OSU's media market is Oregon just as all of Utah has at least some interest in UU and BYU.🙂 The question then becomes market share. I don't know the stats, but given the Beaver's lack of football or basketball championships vs UO and UW, size of alumni base, etc I have to think it's not very big.

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To be fair Oregon has more population than Utah but that doesn't translate into more viewership for OSU. We're talking about tv market size, Alumni base and overall brand. In 2021 Utah ranked #4th in the conference behind OU,UCLA,and USC in viewership with 994k and #37th in the nation. OSU ranked a dismal #69th in the nation with 321k. Between 2015 and 2019 OSU was dead last in the conference in viewership and Utah was 7th. I argue that OSU cannot claim the whole state any more than Fresno St. can claim California. OSU even with its new Stadium renovation will be 11th in the conference in capacity only slightly better than WSU. Utah also travels well, and has a tremendous large fan base , its upside is far and above OSU.

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But Oregon State has to compete with Oregon which dominates the two biggest TV markets in the state. Utah has the Salt Lake TV market pretty much to itself. They are doing very well.

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Where did you find the viewership stats?

My point was that OSU has alumni and fans across Oregon, not just Corvallis. That is the same as UU and the state of Utah. Size if market/number if TVs = potential. Viewership=percentage capture if potential. Clearly, it helped UU to join the Pac12 in terms of capturing more potential. That's why I think it's an underestimation of SDSU to only look at their current viewership.

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You can find the stats easily by Google, tv viewership of pac12 2021 or all universities nationwide. Potential is not as important as actual stats ,thats reality. Your Alumni base apparently is watching OSU Football because you have a third of the viewers Utah has. The Media Giants are looking at actual viewership not Potential.

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No. Oregon State is not even in the same league as Utah.

Corvalis is not rated in the top-200 as TV market and Oregon owns most of the Portland / Eugene market. Utah has all of Salt Lake City to itself and above all else has a successful team that garners more interest locally and nationally.

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OSU has to go. They have only a small share of a small market. UW and UO dominate viewership in the PNW.

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UTAH won because they were the best team. Period. And that is FOOTBALL!

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John, any more information on Big10 player demands on revenue sharing from TV funds to student athletes?

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How is that relevant to this topic?

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In every debate, superficial data analysis and information manipulation are both tells of which participant is in the weaker position. Clearly the Pac-12 is in the weaker and most perilous position. It’s not even close. I have no dog in this fight, but I do analyze finamcial data for a living.

The Pac-12 has some nice academic institutions. Take out USC and the last 15 years of Oregon football and they offer very little in terms of appeal (outside alumni base) and football sucess.

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Nice academic institutions? The PAC 12 absolutely dominates the Big 12 in Academics. Why do you think Silicon Valley is in California? Or the Silicon slopes are in Itah. So much ignorance here on behalf of the PAC 12 apologists.

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Ed, are you OK?

Why are technology companies abandoning silicon valley for the likes of Austin, Texas?

Again, are you OK?

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I am not sure? Are you?

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Ed, I am 100% sure about you. The more you comment, the clearer it becomes.

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Allright Shooter!! Yee-haw!

Clarity is my specialty!

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I’m glad to hear there is something you do well, Ed. Because it sure isn’t making a reasonable argument, LOL

My abs hurt from laughing at you.

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Ever lived at the beach?

Or gone surfing and skiing and 4 wheeling in the desert in one day?

Now my friend where in the Big 12 can you find that?

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Ever pay $7/gallon for regular unleaded?

Ever pay state income tax?

Ever been forced to wear a mask which science has definitively determined to be inefffective?

Ever had children forced to be educated remotely?

Ever stepped on human feces when walking a city street?

Ever had district attorneys sacrifice public safety to advance their own personal agenda?

Ever had a clue?

Yep, PAC-12 country is elite. That’s why the population is fleeing California. Seriously, Ed. You have to learn to analyze facts. PS, my beach estate is located on Longboat Key, Florida. Better beach and a free state.

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And cheap and the weather sucks in Florida. Did you know that just about every criminal dollar in America passed thru Florida. Bet you had no idea. It’s so funny but true.

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Ed, are you Ok? You seem to have your panties all twisted in a knot.

The biggest criminals in this country are the politicians in California who used COVID relief funds to bail their state out of the financial mess that a generation of fiscal mismanagement placed on their citizenry.

But I bet you already know that. Don’t ya? LOL

Please reply to my questions above.

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The cartels own Florida because of it’s proximity to South America. International corruption starts in Florida and spreads all over the US. Very similar to how the Mexican cartels run California

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I have no dog in this fight but I completely agree with the logic expressed in this column. I too been unable to grasp exactly why the Big 12 is more valuable to the Pac-12? It just doesn’t add up.

I think the Pac-12 is going to add 2-4 teams from the Mountain West. I would imagine that San Diego State will be one of them and who knows who else? Boise State maybe? Colorado State? Air Force? It’ll be someone like that.

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They would add UNLV before Boise State. Neither are going to happen, but definitely not Boise State.

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I still want the PAC-12 - other than SDSU - to offer to pull in SJSU, Fresno State, and Hawaii. Yeah, yeah, the State of Hawai’i itself doesn’t have that many households (less than half of San Diego) but there are Hawaiians all over the West Coast that would be additive to this number - much as the NY Giants can count part of FL in its market (we lived there - it’s a thing).

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All schools lose money and a lot of it playing in Hawaii. It's a "reward to fans" trip only. SJSU and Fresno State bring poor academics, very little incremental viewership,and no change in recruiting. Boise State is even eorse.

SDSU is a must add.

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If we’re using academics here - why that’s a top concern for membership in an athletic conference, I don’t know - boot ASU out, too. That doesn’t make a lot of sense to me.

As for Hawai’i, so what? Not everything is a winner. It’s sports. Hell, most sports lose money at all schools. This isn’t persuasive to me.

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Boot ASU? Ranked #117 for national universities in US News. Huge alumni base, major metropolitan market.

Rightly or wrongly, Pac10 and Big10 boards care a lot about academics. That's why they matter.

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Arizona State is not an AAU member, but yeah, that doesn't mean it's not a decent research institution.

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John's a smart guy and accomplished sportswriter. I enjoyed his thoughtful articles when he was with the Fresno Bee. The Bee was also a springboard for Andy Katz.

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Agree. He has been doing this a long time and I worked with many many people who know and worked with John. Elite writer, journalist, broadcaster and human being.

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Thank you Mrs. Canzano, I know you're proud of your boy.

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Kirk the Jerk! Big 12 Rage Crowd president

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Damn straight and he makes a great lasagna

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I don't agree with you I'll take the Big 12 amy day.

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I still like the name. That’s all my comment was about.

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The question is not which conference is in the worst shape. The only question that matters is how do non-SEC/non-BIG programs keep up.

Expansion of the playoffs is coming. Unless the Pac/Big XII/ACC want to have at most one or two schools involved, they must figure out a way to close the gap. Most likely that means consolidation and losing the weak football/academic programs like WSU and OrSU and adding SDSU, TCU, Texas Tech, and UH. None of the other Big XII schools matter any more than WSU and OrSU. That Pac12, or whatever it's called, league would substantially improve the footprint. It's not just the local TV markets. It's the share of major regional markets. Lots of SDSU grads live in LA and the Bay Area, for example, just as lots of those Texas programs have alums in Dallas, Houston, San Antonio, etc. Fresno State and Boise State bring weak academics, no recruiting, and limited incremental viewership.

The synergy of fan interest in a combined league could increase the viewership of all the programs, just like it helped Utah, and cutting out the weakest members would mean much higher $/school than the current Pac10.

Also the Pac12 at Night is slow motion suicide. It's at best a short-term, woefully insufficient paycheck. No one east of Utah watches it.

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I live in Ohio and I watch PAC-12 after dark every weekend during football season. I think you would be surprised how many people east of Utah watch the PAC-12. Can't beat a rainy/foggy night game at Autzen in the fall.

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Once the Big Ten starts having games with USC in those timeslots like their Commish said today they would, I'm not so sure it will matter.

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The ratings say otherwise.

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You obviously do not look at data Data don’t lie

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You’re right Ed. Data doesn’t lie. Analysts do.

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Dude, the Pac-12 just got offered $24.5M per school by ESPN -- well less than half what the Big 12 is projected to earn. The Pac 12 has obviously asked you and Wilner to write cheerleader articles like this since you both wrote basically carbon copies of each others' pieces, but all the wishful writing in the world can't cover for that G-5 level offer from ESPN. If the Pac -12 did stay together (it won't) the schools would all be in the red just like UCLA before long.

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Oh bullcrap. PAC 12 has the appeal the culture, the academics the coolness and the ratings. Big 12 has Oklahoma dust, tornadoes and yer-haw

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Coolness factor? It's a laughing stock nationally right now, especially after George's Media Day performance. The academics? True for Stanford and Cal, not so much anyone else. The ratings? Mandel's article about ratings has had about a dozen stories pointing out how he conveniently left out all the Pac 12 network games that had tiny viewership numbers and he compared Pac at Night games to Big 12 games at 12:30 PT against the SEC , ACC, and Big Ten. I don't blame Mandel and Canzano for being cheerleaders -- We all wish things were better for the Pac and can't blame the homers for trying to make it look better, but it's a dumpster fire and has a revenue ceiling of almost half what the Big 12 teams will be making. As Dennis Dodds said, at best whats left is a MWC+ conference.

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In fact you are emanating fear and using old tired repetitive tactics combined with obvious lies and misinformation. about the PAC.

The Big 12 is done as a CFB contender.

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Ed, are you ok?

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Yer- haw Shooter!

I am not sure. So what is wrong with a little psychosis? 😂😂

How was your Armadillo for breakfast this morning? Just a pinch between the cheek and gum!!

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You are truly an academic GIANT, Ed! Go coach some high school football LOL

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Source?

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