Murthy is an impressive president. Given all the negativity regarding university presidents in the news lately Oregon State is lucky to have such a great leader.
Thank you for following and giving us the insight to this story. I’m a former Duck and I feel betrayed by all (including Oregon) the 10 departing schools. I stand with the Pac2 now!
Curious is the Cusano who signed with WSU a son or relative? # hope he does well & pretty sure he will never play against the Ducks in his career @ Wsu.
Wow congratulations. His athletic & academic abilities are fantastic after seeing his offer sheet with service academies & Ivy League offers. # smart & athletic tough combo to beat.
I still want to know who the two schools are resisting settlement? Why are the lead instigators never identified.
UW, UO, AZ? 2 of those three?
AZ has a $240M hole, somehow - keeping firing (and paying football coaches, over and over? Basketball coach fired?)
UW. and UO have certainly whined...but I think the Ducks sit this one out - yep, they need cash, but a guy named Phil probably said he'd be in to indemnify
When did O and UW whine? I don’t recall any whining from either school. There was some legal maneuvering as all should expect, but I haven’t heard a peep out of either school. Even the fans from both schools appear to support the PAC-2 as far as settlements.
So tell me, where are you getting this? Unless you’re making it up, which sounds a little whiny to me.
UW whined throughout the court filings. Go review them, its a perpetual whine. They knew the terms upon leaving; despite the bullshit put forward, the agreements were clear....and notice to the world is notice to the conference and the members
UO - maybe the school didn't whine, but Canzano's comment pages are full of whines by fans Twitter is full of whines by fans.
Ok, I’ll go review.... the court filings.... yeah, I’ll go do that.
But first, was it the school or possibly the lawyers, or maybe ur perception that making a legal case was whining? Never mind, it’s a rhetorical question. I know the answer.
It appears the Beavs n Cougs came out of this the best they could. Good for them! As for O and UW, my guess is they’ll be just fine.
Nice to see the Beavs and Cougs have Presidents who can fight for what's right. Good settlement. Lots of opportunities for the schools as they move forward with the war chest. Appreciate the update and enjoy your holidays with your family. Are you going to any bowl games?
Murthy’s quote about the “visionary” creation of land-grant universities like OSU and WSU is spot on and also drives home the unfairness of realignment. Good for both schools in pursuing their interests in the courts and elsewhere. And OSU has a gem in Murthy.
John - Thanks. You came through again with a clear (as possible) and concise reporting of the agreement. I had trouble figuring all that out from previous (non-JC) writing I had read.
Just one more note. BOTH Schulz (ChE) and Murthy (ME) are engineers. Both have been Deans of Engineering at major Universities.
Moral of the story - ENGINEERS are problem solvers....and they RULE:)
nerd jokes....love it. I was in the last class that was taught how to use slide rules in my UG years. Then this new fangled invention called the "calculator" came out. It could do basic math functions....and take logs! Yahoo!
My dad was a master with a slide rule which he used as an officer in the Army artillery in Korea. I had to learn to use one in HS math class but calculators had just come out (from the brand new HP plant in Corvallis) and so I never really got into them
A couple years ago I gave my Grandson-in-law my slide rule from my student days. He wasn't sure what it was for. I used to talk to young engineers in companies I called on about how we drew plans and working drawings. Even funnier!
Die-hard Duck here, and I couldn't be happier about OSU and WSU prevailing in this matter. I hope they can save the PAC-12 conference until rational minds figure out another round of realignment that makes more sense than where we're headed in 2024.
Murthy has to be the best university President at OSU in a LONG time. To take on a new job and be hit with all this is pretty amazing. Being a woman, being an engineer and being dismissed as a person has steeled her to perfection. Sure the WSU President is fine also--we just don't get any reporting on the guy via the O or.... Thank you John.
I am very pleased to see President Murthy come through for her university. Given the national turmoil around university Presidents and the focus on DEI over everything that should really matter to a university (education, research, personal growth and of course, great sports competition), I did not know if she was up for the task, being almost new to OSU. I am glad my worst fears were not realized. It was refreshing to see Murthy and Barnes flex their muscles fighting the Leavers and Winning!
It's interesting... because after her hire I wondered what in the world she might know about college sports. She confessed that she was well versed in cricket, but didn't know college football all that well. I've watched her closely. She understands competition and is a fighter. That shouldn't be overlooked.
Thanks for the update John. Best news in a while. A lot of very difficult work got done and OSU and WSU came out on top. Jayathi Murthy and Kirk Schulz are indeed the 1-2 punch you mentioned, with J Murthy in particular having the right priorities about college sports. The future look a lot less bleak and uncertain now.
My personal thank you, John for your recognition of Dr. Murthy. Before she had to be involved in this, she was bringing great promise as a leader of an excellent university that now had the potential to continue to grow and share in the individual development of the students in all of their programs. Her proven ability to do so in engineering was certain to expand in terms of the university in whole. Once this allskate is settled, she can devote more of her energies toward the task for which Oregon State was fortunate to have her join them. Just sayin, Charlie.
GREAT summary and round up of this s-show! The entire process had been like listening to Charlie Brown’s teacher. Great job by the Presidents, the ADs have been doing a great job as well. I am curious if/how much a role Oliver Luck has had in the process. Very behind the scene role for sure.
One thing I’ve yet to see discussed is the impact realignment will have on applications at OSU and WSU. Big time sports lead to more applications to those colleges. The drop off in student population at those two schools could be devastating.
Success or failure in sports impacts enrollment applications all over the country. There are students that want to attend a school with big time sports. Without it you stand to lose some of those students. There’s a lot to back that up.
Yes, they will both be competing at D1, but a draw for sports conscious students is the opponents and conference your school plays in. Success is great. But conference and opponents matter. Hosting New Mexico instead of USC will impact enrollment. Sad reality.
So far, so good. Murthy and Barnes have passed a couple of tests that if they failed could have dropped OSU to FCS (probably never Div II or lower just due to the university size). Hanging on to the PAC12 assets through successful lawsuits and getting aligned with the MWC, a FBS conference, are two major wins for the Beavers. It showed up in recruiting and National Signing Day which did not crater as badly as it might have. They have had no admin losses since the failure to get a good media deal done (a major loss that blew up the PAC12). If Murthy and Barnes continue to win in the money game, it will go a long way to staying relevant in sports at the Div 1, FBS level
Very interesting article. I would say sports marketing absolutely affects the perception of O as a college destination. The “Brand” is out there non-stop. It’s tough to argue against the value in that.
The question was raised as to why non-football (non-revenue) sports have to compete at the same level as the football team. After reading about this perspective in the article, I’m more onboard with that thinking. Why should Stanford’s tennis team travel to The deep South for a match, when they can fill an entire season schedule within a 50 mile radius? The obvious answer is competition, but won’t that sort itself out between the schools after a few years?
You would think sports wouldn't matter to incoming students, but I am sure it does. It would be an interesting study. If we looked, I am sure those have already been done (comparing sports success or failure at a school to enrollment growth or shrinkage). Even for students who are most concerned with the quality of their education, sports success is an indication of a university's overall commitment to success of its academic programs. This is why college football halftime shows always include a video collage of academic excellence at each school. Sports and academics are at least psychologically related to each other
two observations: (1) I think athletics notoriety does have an effect on out-of-state residents seeking admission...which for a public university means higher tuition/fees revenue, (2) there has been a strong trend in the last 10 years toward a 60-40 ratio of women to men seeking enrollment nationwide. Does that affect student body interest in sports? Does it affect Title IX requirements? Will it affect future alumni donations to a U's athletic programs? Some schools are now reacting in admissions to get more "balance in gender" and will that influence admission standards for athletes?
I just saw something about the big gender imbalance towards women. What a change from the 70s! When I was at OSU, an engineering and ag school, it was probably 70-30 in favor of men, who are also more interested in physical sports like football. I am sure it changes quite a bit about the whole college experience
WSU is the Ag School and Vet School with the viticulture Dept, Fuskies can’t replicate that, they’ll still get the Tesla - Audi crowd, Cougs will still get the Toyota-Honda crowd, down to earth and hard working, that’s why we fit so well with OSU
Arizona... feels obvious to me. They are in financial peril and earned a bunch of the NCAA Tournament units. The other candidates... UCLA... and maybe... Cal. Although, Cal hasn't earned any NCAA Tournament units.
Wilner talked about the holdouts quite a bit but didn’t outright name them. Then in a Q&A column he mentioned Cal and Arizona.
I think it’s fairly obvious why those two would claim poverty. On the flip side if that is true, then some of the vitriol aimed at UW and UO seems to have been unnecessary as they appear to have been trying to settle and only went to court to push the process forward.
Additionally, it’s worth pointing out how both the Apple Cup and the Civll War or whatever it’s called now were renewed while all of this was happening. It’s doubtful that would have happened if communications had deteriorated between the schools.
Screw you. This is why it is getting very difficult to feel sorry for OSU. Your vitriol towards the Ducks is getting very old. Put away your bitterness and start focusing on using your 250 million dollar windfall into building an athletic program that won't be seen as worthless when the next realignment occurs.
Nobody at OSU needs Uncle Phil’s trust fund fans to feel sorry for them. The $250 Million for OSU/WSU is nothing compared to the $1 Billion plus that Knight has put into UO. Not that it has mattered so far. Enjoy watching them play Liberty.
He mentioned Cal and Arizona who were going to have revenue problems. Not Cal and Arizona were the ones who were blocking. Those are two different things.
It's highly possible that those were the two holdputs though. There's enough evidence that both are having major financial problems that are on going.
Arizona has the "surprise" $240 million budget shortfall and their CFO just resigned. They also account for significant NCAA tournament appearances.
And Cal is the one of the most if not the most indebted athletics department in the entire country, with a debt load of $445 million that requires a yearly $18 million interest only payment. They are also approaching a major financial fall off with only 30% share of the ACC media rights payment for the first 7 years.
I think there's ample evidence that it's most likely they were the holdouts.
I'd guess UCLA. It says the 2 schools thought they "earned" the future revenue. Cal hasn't even made the NCAA tournament, but UCLA has represented well and so has AZ. Plus UCLA has been whining for 2 years how broke hey are. Those are my 2 guesses.
UCLA is also the school in the greatest need from what I read (that is until Arizona made their accounting "error"; not sure how $240M can be an accidental bookkeeping error for a 20-30 person accounting dept) Here is everything about UA finances you probably never wanted to know. Note, there is discussion of cutting loose the athletic department which runs at a deficit and letting it fend for itself (now THAT will be dramatic): https://www.insidehighered.com/news/business/financial-health/2023/11/16/university-arizona-miscalculated-cash-hand-millions
Murthy is an impressive president. Given all the negativity regarding university presidents in the news lately Oregon State is lucky to have such a great leader.
She is a fighter.
Thank you for following and giving us the insight to this story. I’m a former Duck and I feel betrayed by all (including Oregon) the 10 departing schools. I stand with the Pac2 now!
Curious is the Cusano who signed with WSU a son or relative? # hope he does well & pretty sure he will never play against the Ducks in his career @ Wsu.
Yep. My youngest son.
Wow congratulations. His athletic & academic abilities are fantastic after seeing his offer sheet with service academies & Ivy League offers. # smart & athletic tough combo to beat.
Here a kid who is in for a “great adventure” ..good for him NO PLACE LIKE WSU!
I still want to know who the two schools are resisting settlement? Why are the lead instigators never identified.
UW, UO, AZ? 2 of those three?
AZ has a $240M hole, somehow - keeping firing (and paying football coaches, over and over? Basketball coach fired?)
UW. and UO have certainly whined...but I think the Ducks sit this one out - yep, they need cash, but a guy named Phil probably said he'd be in to indemnify
When did O and UW whine? I don’t recall any whining from either school. There was some legal maneuvering as all should expect, but I haven’t heard a peep out of either school. Even the fans from both schools appear to support the PAC-2 as far as settlements.
So tell me, where are you getting this? Unless you’re making it up, which sounds a little whiny to me.
UW whined throughout the court filings. Go review them, its a perpetual whine. They knew the terms upon leaving; despite the bullshit put forward, the agreements were clear....and notice to the world is notice to the conference and the members
UO - maybe the school didn't whine, but Canzano's comment pages are full of whines by fans Twitter is full of whines by fans.
Ok, I’ll go review.... the court filings.... yeah, I’ll go do that.
But first, was it the school or possibly the lawyers, or maybe ur perception that making a legal case was whining? Never mind, it’s a rhetorical question. I know the answer.
It appears the Beavs n Cougs came out of this the best they could. Good for them! As for O and UW, my guess is they’ll be just fine.
Nice to see the Beavs and Cougs have Presidents who can fight for what's right. Good settlement. Lots of opportunities for the schools as they move forward with the war chest. Appreciate the update and enjoy your holidays with your family. Are you going to any bowl games?
Murthy’s quote about the “visionary” creation of land-grant universities like OSU and WSU is spot on and also drives home the unfairness of realignment. Good for both schools in pursuing their interests in the courts and elsewhere. And OSU has a gem in Murthy.
Well played Lance, well played. Charlie
John - Thanks. You came through again with a clear (as possible) and concise reporting of the agreement. I had trouble figuring all that out from previous (non-JC) writing I had read.
Just one more note. BOTH Schulz (ChE) and Murthy (ME) are engineers. Both have been Deans of Engineering at major Universities.
Moral of the story - ENGINEERS are problem solvers....and they RULE:)
They Slide Rule 😀
nerd jokes....love it. I was in the last class that was taught how to use slide rules in my UG years. Then this new fangled invention called the "calculator" came out. It could do basic math functions....and take logs! Yahoo!
What is a slide rule?
Never start down the slide until the person in front of you has gotten out of the way.
You have to join the nerd club to find out. It is our secret weapon:)
Wonder where mine went? Had it from HS. Not sure I can figure it out anymore.
If you want one i have mine and my dad's. He was an engineer too. I took all of his measuring tools.
Hell, tc, I couldn't figure it out then!
My dad was a master with a slide rule which he used as an officer in the Army artillery in Korea. I had to learn to use one in HS math class but calculators had just come out (from the brand new HP plant in Corvallis) and so I never really got into them
A couple years ago I gave my Grandson-in-law my slide rule from my student days. He wasn't sure what it was for. I used to talk to young engineers in companies I called on about how we drew plans and working drawings. Even funnier!
Interesting observation.
I like this comment a lot!
Yes! Well played, Skip.
Die-hard Duck here, and I couldn't be happier about OSU and WSU prevailing in this matter. I hope they can save the PAC-12 conference until rational minds figure out another round of realignment that makes more sense than where we're headed in 2024.
A fair outcome to this dispute for all involved here. Maybe the only fair thing that's happened in the last twelve months or so.
I am looking forward to watch the PAC12 Rebuild. It will be satisfying to see principle win out over greed.
Murthy has to be the best university President at OSU in a LONG time. To take on a new job and be hit with all this is pretty amazing. Being a woman, being an engineer and being dismissed as a person has steeled her to perfection. Sure the WSU President is fine also--we just don't get any reporting on the guy via the O or.... Thank you John.
Thank you for being here to read this.
I am very pleased to see President Murthy come through for her university. Given the national turmoil around university Presidents and the focus on DEI over everything that should really matter to a university (education, research, personal growth and of course, great sports competition), I did not know if she was up for the task, being almost new to OSU. I am glad my worst fears were not realized. It was refreshing to see Murthy and Barnes flex their muscles fighting the Leavers and Winning!
It's interesting... because after her hire I wondered what in the world she might know about college sports. She confessed that she was well versed in cricket, but didn't know college football all that well. I've watched her closely. She understands competition and is a fighter. That shouldn't be overlooked.
Which means, unfortunately, that she may be the president of Texas or U$C before long. Drat.
Well played, tc, well played. Happy to see Dr. Murthy, and OSU, get some love.
Thank you, Charlie!
Certainly since Paul Risser. He was great.
Well done. The good fight paid off. Go Beavs. go Cougs.
Agree. And love at Murthy is a fighter; doesn't pay to underestimate her.
Or Shultz.
Thanks for the update John. Best news in a while. A lot of very difficult work got done and OSU and WSU came out on top. Jayathi Murthy and Kirk Schulz are indeed the 1-2 punch you mentioned, with J Murthy in particular having the right priorities about college sports. The future look a lot less bleak and uncertain now.
My personal thank you, John for your recognition of Dr. Murthy. Before she had to be involved in this, she was bringing great promise as a leader of an excellent university that now had the potential to continue to grow and share in the individual development of the students in all of their programs. Her proven ability to do so in engineering was certain to expand in terms of the university in whole. Once this allskate is settled, she can devote more of her energies toward the task for which Oregon State was fortunate to have her join them. Just sayin, Charlie.
A huge victory for the Pac-2, and for fairness.
GREAT summary and round up of this s-show! The entire process had been like listening to Charlie Brown’s teacher. Great job by the Presidents, the ADs have been doing a great job as well. I am curious if/how much a role Oliver Luck has had in the process. Very behind the scene role for sure.
One thing I’ve yet to see discussed is the impact realignment will have on applications at OSU and WSU. Big time sports lead to more applications to those colleges. The drop off in student population at those two schools could be devastating.
OSU will remain Oregon's flagship public university. I doubt this will have any impact on enrollment.
Success or failure in sports impacts enrollment applications all over the country. There are students that want to attend a school with big time sports. Without it you stand to lose some of those students. There’s a lot to back that up.
I believe Oregon State will have quite the successful 2024 season. The MWC schools are no push overs, but now the playing field is a bit more even.
All the crap thrown at the Beavs this season caused us to loose sight that it was a great team on the field this year.
I’m excited for the opportunity to watch the basketball teams play in Portland as well.
Yes, they will both be competing at D1, but a draw for sports conscious students is the opponents and conference your school plays in. Success is great. But conference and opponents matter. Hosting New Mexico instead of USC will impact enrollment. Sad reality.
Perhaps it could affect the growth rate, but I also doubt this will have any significant negative impact on enrollment.
OSU will continue to play football and all other sports at the highest level of the NCAA. It's not dropping to FCS, Division II, Division III or NAIA.
So far, so good. Murthy and Barnes have passed a couple of tests that if they failed could have dropped OSU to FCS (probably never Div II or lower just due to the university size). Hanging on to the PAC12 assets through successful lawsuits and getting aligned with the MWC, a FBS conference, are two major wins for the Beavers. It showed up in recruiting and National Signing Day which did not crater as badly as it might have. They have had no admin losses since the failure to get a good media deal done (a major loss that blew up the PAC12). If Murthy and Barnes continue to win in the money game, it will go a long way to staying relevant in sports at the Div 1, FBS level
TBD
I found this article on the topic (there are many to choose from if you google it). This is a story in Deseret News and includes quotes from Scott Barnes (who had been at Utah State). https://www.deseret.com/sports/2023/10/20/23880615/college-football-basketball-emphasis-winning-increase-admissions-enrollment-flutie-effect
Very interesting article. I would say sports marketing absolutely affects the perception of O as a college destination. The “Brand” is out there non-stop. It’s tough to argue against the value in that.
The question was raised as to why non-football (non-revenue) sports have to compete at the same level as the football team. After reading about this perspective in the article, I’m more onboard with that thinking. Why should Stanford’s tennis team travel to The deep South for a match, when they can fill an entire season schedule within a 50 mile radius? The obvious answer is competition, but won’t that sort itself out between the schools after a few years?
You would think sports wouldn't matter to incoming students, but I am sure it does. It would be an interesting study. If we looked, I am sure those have already been done (comparing sports success or failure at a school to enrollment growth or shrinkage). Even for students who are most concerned with the quality of their education, sports success is an indication of a university's overall commitment to success of its academic programs. This is why college football halftime shows always include a video collage of academic excellence at each school. Sports and academics are at least psychologically related to each other
two observations: (1) I think athletics notoriety does have an effect on out-of-state residents seeking admission...which for a public university means higher tuition/fees revenue, (2) there has been a strong trend in the last 10 years toward a 60-40 ratio of women to men seeking enrollment nationwide. Does that affect student body interest in sports? Does it affect Title IX requirements? Will it affect future alumni donations to a U's athletic programs? Some schools are now reacting in admissions to get more "balance in gender" and will that influence admission standards for athletes?
I just saw something about the big gender imbalance towards women. What a change from the 70s! When I was at OSU, an engineering and ag school, it was probably 70-30 in favor of men, who are also more interested in physical sports like football. I am sure it changes quite a bit about the whole college experience
WSU is the Ag School and Vet School with the viticulture Dept, Fuskies can’t replicate that, they’ll still get the Tesla - Audi crowd, Cougs will still get the Toyota-Honda crowd, down to earth and hard working, that’s why we fit so well with OSU
What are you saying. Success is bad?
🙄
Very curious to know which two schools were holdouts
Arizona... feels obvious to me. They are in financial peril and earned a bunch of the NCAA Tournament units. The other candidates... UCLA... and maybe... Cal. Although, Cal hasn't earned any NCAA Tournament units.
Wilner talked about the holdouts quite a bit but didn’t outright name them. Then in a Q&A column he mentioned Cal and Arizona.
I think it’s fairly obvious why those two would claim poverty. On the flip side if that is true, then some of the vitriol aimed at UW and UO seems to have been unnecessary as they appear to have been trying to settle and only went to court to push the process forward.
Additionally, it’s worth pointing out how both the Apple Cup and the Civll War or whatever it’s called now were renewed while all of this was happening. It’s doubtful that would have happened if communications had deteriorated between the schools.
Vitriol toward knight school is always warranted.
Screw you. This is why it is getting very difficult to feel sorry for OSU. Your vitriol towards the Ducks is getting very old. Put away your bitterness and start focusing on using your 250 million dollar windfall into building an athletic program that won't be seen as worthless when the next realignment occurs.
Nobody at OSU needs Uncle Phil’s trust fund fans to feel sorry for them. The $250 Million for OSU/WSU is nothing compared to the $1 Billion plus that Knight has put into UO. Not that it has mattered so far. Enjoy watching them play Liberty.
Save all vitriol for the Dawgs
So you have one ally. Good job
Qwwwwwwaaaaaaaaahhhhh!
...yawn...a loser's lament...your specialty.
I thrive on their hate! It's like the smell of napalm in the morning....it smells like...victory!
He mentioned Cal and Arizona who were going to have revenue problems. Not Cal and Arizona were the ones who were blocking. Those are two different things.
I think Arizona and UCLA had the biggest gripe about the NCAA Tournament units the basketball teams earned.
It's highly possible that those were the two holdputs though. There's enough evidence that both are having major financial problems that are on going.
Arizona has the "surprise" $240 million budget shortfall and their CFO just resigned. They also account for significant NCAA tournament appearances.
And Cal is the one of the most if not the most indebted athletics department in the entire country, with a debt load of $445 million that requires a yearly $18 million interest only payment. They are also approaching a major financial fall off with only 30% share of the ACC media rights payment for the first 7 years.
I think there's ample evidence that it's most likely they were the holdouts.
Ha, I can understand Arizona, but what NCAA units has Cal earned lately? Their MBB program has been horrible.
Can’t be Cal, they don’t have any future money coming in. The ACC is paying them in free soda vouchers.
I am also curious. If I was a betting man it would be the Arizona schools.
I am guessing one of the AZ schools and then Cal.
UCLA and the University of Arizona. Arizona “miscalculated” how much cash they have on hand with a $240 million shortage.
I'd agree with this.
LOL! They sure did. As an Arizona tax payer, I am not picking up that "error". Let them earn their way out of it
Whoever it is, I will be playing the world’s tiniest violin and crying alligator tears for them.
I'd guess UCLA. It says the 2 schools thought they "earned" the future revenue. Cal hasn't even made the NCAA tournament, but UCLA has represented well and so has AZ. Plus UCLA has been whining for 2 years how broke hey are. Those are my 2 guesses.
My guess... and I don't like to guess... would be UCLA and Arizona.
UCLA is also the school in the greatest need from what I read (that is until Arizona made their accounting "error"; not sure how $240M can be an accidental bookkeeping error for a 20-30 person accounting dept) Here is everything about UA finances you probably never wanted to know. Note, there is discussion of cutting loose the athletic department which runs at a deficit and letting it fend for itself (now THAT will be dramatic): https://www.insidehighered.com/news/business/financial-health/2023/11/16/university-arizona-miscalculated-cash-hand-millions
Good catch. I just figured anyone in the Pacific Coast Conference would think over 100+years they were entitled.
Arizona has to be one of them.
Agree.