The Big12 has won the last two NCAA basketball tournaments and probably would have won the year before that if not for covid. Once Houston joins next year it will be even stronger. If the Four Corners join it would be far and away the strongest basketball conference. If you like college baskteball, Big12 is where you should be.
I get it. Pac12 fans just don't get that the rules have changed. We've had six teams poached from our conference now. The Pac12 took one and turned a blind eye to cries for help when we the others were taken. We could have merged conferences to compete against the predator B1G and SEC, but the Pac12 started talking about "fly-over country" and "we don't want religious institutions". The B1G will poach Oregon and Washington in April and we'll take half of your remaining teams. This is the game as being played.
In the future and after these media rights negotiations are over, we’ll here from the commish a lot more. Everything is close to the best, as it should be right now. He knows what he’s doing.
John, I'm sure you're aware of the numerous Big12 streamers/bloggers that love to share clickbait on their various channels. They love to quote you and Wilner, then argue you both are wrong and are just insiders sharing P12 propaganda. None of them are sourced, and basically they just quote tweets, discuss, and call it news.
Setting that stage, it's fun to point out how they are all starting to slowly change their tune, now that P12 is speaking up and sounding publicly confident. The irony is that a lot of these guys have posted nearly DAILY (since last summer) on the demise of the conference. I've listened and read their nonsense since the news broke of UCLA/USC departures. It's fascinating how they walking back their positions to say they knew all along the PAC would survive, but that it would just be a weak conference.
I'm guessing they are prepping their talking points for when the PAC (allegedly) will have a better media deal than the Big12. It'll likely be the PAC has "too much streaming and their linear deal is better" and "we have better media partners with more brand exposure and more experience and followers". Getting my popcorn ready for the trolls to walk back their comments.
Perhaps the silver lining is that as animosity is building between the two conferences, it might equate to more viewers during matchups between them. The "Holy War" rivalry between Utah and BYU is definitely going to take on a whole new level. There will be others, that much seems certain now.
I've subscribed to several of these trolls so I can crow about how wrong they were once this is over. Their garbage bothered me a lot at first but now I'm finding it entertaining. The arrogance.
Whether we (the Pac#) gets as much, more, less $ is not the point, To me, it's how many games am I going to be able to watch w/o buying still more tv networks? The more games on linear, the more eyes on games
My personal preference is Amazon because I’ve already got it and doing have to flip between channels like FS1, ESPN2, etc. It’s especially annoying when games run long (which happens all the time) and your game was moved to another station temporarily and then you have to switch back once the game ahead of you finishes. Overall I hate linear TV and want nothing to do with it. I cut the cord nearly 15 years ago because I thought it was a waste (especially commercials).
Even now you’re required to buy sports bundles, linear or streaming (ie Sling, Fubo) and they STILL might not have all the channels you need to watch your favorite team. That’s total BS and it needs to be fixed. The easy answer is Amazon, IMO. All the complainers will see the light after a season of easy immediate access to their content.
This is all my personal preference though, not a business decision. :)
Exactly, purely from a business standpoint, more eyes on more games linear. I have Directv so pac 12 network stiffed me . If we go amazon/apple I'm not buying 2 more streaming services, nor will many other fans
If the autopsy on this negotiation finds that a take-no-prisoners PR firm hired by the Big 12 was behind it, the disclosure should shape future relations between the conferences. Thing is, the media outside the Pac 12 footprint are in near agreement about how shaky the Pac 12 has become, while the two reporters who actually cover the conference, JC and Wilner, hear nearly the opposite.
It's one thing to promote your conference as an alternative. It's another to buy into a destructive line, you know, like Putin trying to undercut NATO and the West.
Fox News/Sports is a likely culprit too. They’re very invested in misinformation strategies these days. Their money is behind Big10 and Big12, both of which would stand to benefit from a broken PAC. Worth digging into, JC.
Bingo.. I think it is all orchestrated by Fox Sports for the exact reason you mention... Everyone is focusing on conferences and the real war is between media companies and who will dominate college sports
I could actually see ESPN having a hand too, trying to spin this as a way to low ball for Tier 1 rights on the off chance that presidents panic and the schools that could move would do so to another conference, and they wouldn’t have to pay for the brands they want
Case in point: Pete Thamel’s articles, Rece Davis’ dumbass comments during ongoing negotiations
If the media rights negotiations yield a final agreement that eclipses the Big 12 annual school payout of $31.6M, the Pac-12 will have the last laugh and will look like the "bigger" and classier conference in a variety of ways. However, it's not just Big 12 people pounding the Pac-12 - the SEC leadership and sportswriters/broadcasters are also saying the Pac-12 is finished. I'm sick of listening to Paul Finebaum regurgitate that garbage.
The good news is this just cannot go on much longer.
Oregon is staying unless, of course, the conference falls apart and more schools leave. Oregon is historically and traditionally aligned with the Pac-12, formerly the Pacific Coast Conference. Oregon also sees a better path to the CFP and ultimately to the final four and championship game by staying in the Pac-12.
I disagree about the clear path, hypothetically, Oregon could finish 3rd in a bigger B1G, and still be ranked higher than 1st in a weakened Pac , Taking top 12 teams doesn't mean we would even be top 12, with such weakened competition
O.K., we'll disagree. Tell me when the 3rd ranked team in the Big Ten has been a higher ranked CFP candidate than the number 1 ranked Pac-12 team.
With the quality of QB's coming back next season in the Pac-12, no conference in the country will have more offensive talent or firepower than Pac-12 teams - no one. Television likes offense.
I wish history and rivalries meant something in todays college sports but it’s pretty obvious with all the conference moves that they don’t. And there’s been absolutely zero moves made meant to bring an easier path to a championship. Results of all teams that have moved have been worse. They did it anyway because it’s about money.
It's probably a dream, but I prefer the number 10 for the conference membership. That allows a round robin in football with each team playing every other team every year. I know the other conferences play only eight other conference teams. But more than three out-of=conference games in football leads to at least two and maybe three games that are hardly worth watching.
The league stays together, doesn't expand, and UCLA and USC win a ton of NCAA games in 2023 and 2024, earning the new pac-10 a ton of units and cash the departing schools can't share in.
And the blizzard of the century hits the Midwest in Jan., 2025, while USC and UCLA are on their first basketball trips to the Twin Cities and Iowa, shutting the region down and trapping them on the frozen tundra for a week.
LOL!! I wonder how USC is feeling about losing to Michigan St yesterday; is it a sign of things to come when they officially join their new conference?
I don’t think that’s how it works. The departing schools would receive whatever revenue was earned from the seasons they were members of the conference. Wishful thinking.
The NCAA pays the revenue to the league, not the individual school. The league then divides it among its members. Since USC and UCLA won't be members after 7/1/2024, they are SOL.
Enjoy those Rutgers road trips, paying $3 million a year to Cal, and the football beatdowns you'll still get every week.
Actually, UCLA has an 80% winning percentage against the SEC/Big Ten combined this century, including wins over Alabama (twice), Michigan, Ohio State, Tennessee (twice), Nebraska (twice), LSU, and Texas A&M, as well as wins over Texas (twice) and Oklahoma. I’m sure we’ll be just fine. Lmao
Also, the conference can’t withhold revenue. It entirely depends on their grant of rights. UCLA/USC will be paid Pac-12 payouts for seasons they were members.
And the date of departure is August 2, 2024 not July 1, 2024. Trust me, I know, I’m counting the days to leave this mid-major conference with no other schools left in the tournament.
You couldn't be more wrong. NCAA tournament earned by UCLA this season and next season belongs to the Pacific conference. This is according to Jon Wilner.
As to whether UCLA owes anything to the Pacific Conference the above speaks for itself and while I respect your POV I happen to respect Bill Walton's POV far more than I do yours.
Yeah it belongs the the Pac-12, which UCLA is a member. Wilner’s article was talking about those units transferring to the Big Ten. That’s not what the original poster said. He’s talking about units earned during seasons UCLA/USC are members of the Pac-12. He’s wishing the Pac-12 can withhold the revenue from those payouts from seasons UCLA/USC are Pac-12 schools.
Finally, enjoy Bill Walton all you want and his no truck stops and little chairs. Honestly, the best part about leaving this sinking ship known as the Pac-12 is not having to hear Bill Walton anymore. That man is the most obnoxious human being. He alone drags down Pac-12 viewership.
The Tourney $ belongs to the Pacific conference. Period. End of sentence. The payout for the 2023 and 2024 tourneys will continue to be paid to the Pacific conference without UCLA and the B1G seeing a cent. Have I clarified this issue to a level that you can comprehend?
Additionally, UCLA isn't leaving without owing an undetermined amount of money to CAL. Year after year.
Have you reached puberty? Do you have any idea of the impact Bill Walton had on UCLA athletics? Have you heard of Kareem Al Jabbar? How about John Wooden?
Please tell us, what are your bona fides compared to Bill Walton's? I have 3 close friends who graduated from UCLA. They hate this move that they see as being engineered as a result of incompetence by the AD and the athletic director and Bloch, a guy who could care less about athletics. I very much doubt that the Pac Network would have more fans if Bill was not part of the broadcast crew.
The conference returns to unequal revenue sharing and FOX instead of buying SC and UCLA bids along with ESPN for conference media rights. The Network is sold to a 3rd party or files for liquidation. Would SC or UCLA have left for 10 to 15M more dollars? We don't know because the Pac commissioner was not allowed to compete with FOX.
If the conference is a sinking ship SC and UCLA fired a torpedo or 3.
UCLA isn’t paying Cal anything. That part of the vote was simply to allow future allocations of publicly funded dollars to Cal. It’s to allow further negotiations. Even so, it’s only for the life of the Big Ten media deal, which is 6 years.
I have multiple degrees from UCLA. Those are my bona fides. I come from a UCLA family. My uncles and aunt graduated from UCLA and they have at least one kid (my cousins) who have at least one degree from UCLA.
I don’t know what kind of UCLA people you’re associated to but nearly all UCLA constituents fall into one of two categories: (a) they love this move; or (b) they don’t love it but understand it was a necessity. Also, the UCLA AD is not incompetent. It was the previous AD who was incompetent. He’s the one who took a football program that had historically had an average AP finish of #10 and drop them to #17 with repeated bad coaching hires. Block is a bad administrator but the Big Ten move represents a shift in his thinking on athletics (along with going after Chip Kelly).
I do respect Bill Walton as a Bruin. I also like him personally. I’ve met him several times. I just don’t respect him as a color commentator. He’s nothing more than a special pleader for the Pac-12. His loyalty is to the Pac-12. Like Conzano and Wilner, Walton has professional and financial motives for seeing the Pac-12 succeed. They don’t want to be representatives of a borderline mid-major conference.
Lastly, you’re confusing two different issues on the NCAA units. The original poster is talking about withholding revenue earned during seasons UCLA/USC are members of the Pac-12. You’re talking about units transferring to the Big Ten, like the John Wilner article. The original poster admits he has no clue whether they can withhold those payouts. He’s just hopeful they can because like most Pac-12 people, he’s a bitter, butthurt person who wants to exploit UCLA/USC even though those schools never did any harm to the Pac-12. In other words, he’s a scumbag.
I understand why the Bruins are leaving. It's simply disappointing to the left behind Pac-10 members. I do not understand why any Trojans or Bruins fan would want to diss the Pac-10 on the way out the door.
My 3 friends I referred to all have undergraduate degrees from UCLA and two also have law degrees. I do not believe any single person can speak for how Bruins fans in general feel about the move to the B1G.
If the LA schools had given GK a negotiating shot and the conference went back to uneven revenue sharing that existed before Larry, I wonder if with both ESPN and FOX bidding for conference media rights if the Pac-12 could have come up with say $55M to $60M for SC and UCLA.? Would that have been enough money to keep the LA schools in the conference? I have no way of knowing.
In the case of uneven distributions, I think SC/UCLA would have been in a 1st tier payout with Oregon, UW, and maybe Utah in the 2nd tier. I also believe the revenue slice should be weighted on viewership numbers and the amount of capital a given conference member invests in CFB and CBB. I also believe that teams that succeed in the Moneyball playoffs should receive a bigger slice of the payout pie.
I wish nothing but the best for the Bruins going forward in the CBB tourney. I have cheered on UCLA basketball for decades, even before the arrival of John Wooden. My Dad who passed in 2017 at age 98 saw Wooden play for Purdue!
I have to disagree with you regarding Jon Wilner. I think he is a very good journalist.
Just wanted to thank you for all your hard work in giving the honest truths about all of this nonsense. The Big 12 writers have been disappointing to say the least. Thanks for your efforts!
At first it was entertaining watching the 12anon freaks come up with outlandish scenarios and stories which no one rational could ever believe outside of their followers, but lately just pure nasty BS - and so stupid it hurts your head to read. Their next act will consist of things like why ESPN+ > Amazon, but also get ready for some really stupid “production costs” arguments! Somehow these newfound contract and media experts are going to explain to us why we must deduct 8m or so from our media rights to cover production costs. That’s a new one! I’m not a media guy, but sure seems to me like having the PAC networks and infrastructure helps our cause here more than one that doesn’t.
Finally, I’m interested if John thinks there may be some blowback coming to the Big 12 for trying to damage the PAC to these extents. Going as far as hiring PR goons seems just so way out of bounds to me, and a horrible road to go down. The set up “sources” and channels they distributed through seem like a new low also. Surely the NCAA can’t tolerate this, can they? If that’s the new norm then it hurts us all.
I would have liked to hear more from him publicly... but what do you consider "leadership"? If he's in the background, negotiating a hell of a deal and serving his members, is that not leadership? Is leadership managing the expectations of you and me? Or leading his conference into a deal that is a good deal? Discuss.
John, yes to all of those. Leadership is not one thing. I think the idea that he simply answers to the schools is true, but it is bigger than that. In the absence of a message, others will fill the void. George is leaving the door open to at least short-term damage to the Pac12 brand. It is taking hits everyday. I think this does hurt when it comes to the football playoff committee thinking of the league. The Pac12 has done enough over the years by not being as competitive as we might hope and this just adds insult to injury. At the very least, make statements about being excited about the negotiation process and the future of the league. Open up for questions even if you can't answer them. Don't hide and leave an information hole. Holes will be filled by others with different agendas if you are not willing to fill them yourself.
Well if Kliavkoff did as you suggest he'd be exhausted just running around putting out all the imagined fires. I think he's doing fine...a little more information from him might be helpful, but not as you intimate.
If he gets a great or even really good deal done that will account for the silence. If it's not all that great then I guess it's of no consequence what he may have said along the way but didn't. Hope they come up with a really good one. Still I agree I personally would have wanted some kind of visible pro-PAC12 counter to the nattering nabobs of negativity.
Good question. I think you can do both. Sometimes marketing yourself and your stakeholders is highly important. Negotiating a great media rights deal is the top priority, but I think you can do both.
Leadership will = the money GK brings in. He is negotiating with streaming companies that have not broadcast college athletics. He is saddled with a functionally insolvent network he has to deal with and ESPN is not going to bid against itself.
The B12 took the easy way and re-upped with ESPN/FOX for a bargain basement deal for the two broadcast entities. A deal that could look bad as early as within the next 30 days.
"What’s the actual harm of the negative noise? "
It only hurts the big12, particularly those pushing the nonsense. It makes them look ignorant, arrogant and petty.
The Big12 has won the last two NCAA basketball tournaments and probably would have won the year before that if not for covid. Once Houston joins next year it will be even stronger. If the Four Corners join it would be far and away the strongest basketball conference. If you like college baskteball, Big12 is where you should be.
I see you don't get it.
I get it. Pac12 fans just don't get that the rules have changed. We've had six teams poached from our conference now. The Pac12 took one and turned a blind eye to cries for help when we the others were taken. We could have merged conferences to compete against the predator B1G and SEC, but the Pac12 started talking about "fly-over country" and "we don't want religious institutions". The B1G will poach Oregon and Washington in April and we'll take half of your remaining teams. This is the game as being played.
In the future and after these media rights negotiations are over, we’ll here from the commish a lot more. Everything is close to the best, as it should be right now. He knows what he’s doing.
John, I'm sure you're aware of the numerous Big12 streamers/bloggers that love to share clickbait on their various channels. They love to quote you and Wilner, then argue you both are wrong and are just insiders sharing P12 propaganda. None of them are sourced, and basically they just quote tweets, discuss, and call it news.
Setting that stage, it's fun to point out how they are all starting to slowly change their tune, now that P12 is speaking up and sounding publicly confident. The irony is that a lot of these guys have posted nearly DAILY (since last summer) on the demise of the conference. I've listened and read their nonsense since the news broke of UCLA/USC departures. It's fascinating how they walking back their positions to say they knew all along the PAC would survive, but that it would just be a weak conference.
I'm guessing they are prepping their talking points for when the PAC (allegedly) will have a better media deal than the Big12. It'll likely be the PAC has "too much streaming and their linear deal is better" and "we have better media partners with more brand exposure and more experience and followers". Getting my popcorn ready for the trolls to walk back their comments.
Perhaps the silver lining is that as animosity is building between the two conferences, it might equate to more viewers during matchups between them. The "Holy War" rivalry between Utah and BYU is definitely going to take on a whole new level. There will be others, that much seems certain now.
I've subscribed to several of these trolls so I can crow about how wrong they were once this is over. Their garbage bothered me a lot at first but now I'm finding it entertaining. The arrogance.
Ditto :)
Whether we (the Pac#) gets as much, more, less $ is not the point, To me, it's how many games am I going to be able to watch w/o buying still more tv networks? The more games on linear, the more eyes on games
My personal preference is Amazon because I’ve already got it and doing have to flip between channels like FS1, ESPN2, etc. It’s especially annoying when games run long (which happens all the time) and your game was moved to another station temporarily and then you have to switch back once the game ahead of you finishes. Overall I hate linear TV and want nothing to do with it. I cut the cord nearly 15 years ago because I thought it was a waste (especially commercials).
Even now you’re required to buy sports bundles, linear or streaming (ie Sling, Fubo) and they STILL might not have all the channels you need to watch your favorite team. That’s total BS and it needs to be fixed. The easy answer is Amazon, IMO. All the complainers will see the light after a season of easy immediate access to their content.
This is all my personal preference though, not a business decision. :)
Exactly, purely from a business standpoint, more eyes on more games linear. I have Directv so pac 12 network stiffed me . If we go amazon/apple I'm not buying 2 more streaming services, nor will many other fans
Love the moniker of "12Anon." It's about time those jackals in Big-12 land get some shade thrown back at them.
Me too 12Anon - perfection!
Thank a USC alum on Twitter for that.
If the autopsy on this negotiation finds that a take-no-prisoners PR firm hired by the Big 12 was behind it, the disclosure should shape future relations between the conferences. Thing is, the media outside the Pac 12 footprint are in near agreement about how shaky the Pac 12 has become, while the two reporters who actually cover the conference, JC and Wilner, hear nearly the opposite.
It's one thing to promote your conference as an alternative. It's another to buy into a destructive line, you know, like Putin trying to undercut NATO and the West.
Fox News/Sports is a likely culprit too. They’re very invested in misinformation strategies these days. Their money is behind Big10 and Big12, both of which would stand to benefit from a broken PAC. Worth digging into, JC.
Bingo.. I think it is all orchestrated by Fox Sports for the exact reason you mention... Everyone is focusing on conferences and the real war is between media companies and who will dominate college sports
I could actually see ESPN having a hand too, trying to spin this as a way to low ball for Tier 1 rights on the off chance that presidents panic and the schools that could move would do so to another conference, and they wouldn’t have to pay for the brands they want
Case in point: Pete Thamel’s articles, Rece Davis’ dumbass comments during ongoing negotiations
If the media rights negotiations yield a final agreement that eclipses the Big 12 annual school payout of $31.6M, the Pac-12 will have the last laugh and will look like the "bigger" and classier conference in a variety of ways. However, it's not just Big 12 people pounding the Pac-12 - the SEC leadership and sportswriters/broadcasters are also saying the Pac-12 is finished. I'm sick of listening to Paul Finebaum regurgitate that garbage.
The good news is this just cannot go on much longer.
You think Oregon and Washington are going to stay for Big12-type money?!?!
Oregon is staying unless, of course, the conference falls apart and more schools leave. Oregon is historically and traditionally aligned with the Pac-12, formerly the Pacific Coast Conference. Oregon also sees a better path to the CFP and ultimately to the final four and championship game by staying in the Pac-12.
Washington? Never trust Washington. Ever.
I disagree about the clear path, hypothetically, Oregon could finish 3rd in a bigger B1G, and still be ranked higher than 1st in a weakened Pac , Taking top 12 teams doesn't mean we would even be top 12, with such weakened competition
O.K., we'll disagree. Tell me when the 3rd ranked team in the Big Ten has been a higher ranked CFP candidate than the number 1 ranked Pac-12 team.
With the quality of QB's coming back next season in the Pac-12, no conference in the country will have more offensive talent or firepower than Pac-12 teams - no one. Television likes offense.
I wish history and rivalries meant something in todays college sports but it’s pretty obvious with all the conference moves that they don’t. And there’s been absolutely zero moves made meant to bring an easier path to a championship. Results of all teams that have moved have been worse. They did it anyway because it’s about money.
Hell no, they would get a B1G invite the next day
It's probably a dream, but I prefer the number 10 for the conference membership. That allows a round robin in football with each team playing every other team every year. I know the other conferences play only eight other conference teams. But more than three out-of=conference games in football leads to at least two and maybe three games that are hardly worth watching.
The best scenario:
The league stays together, doesn't expand, and UCLA and USC win a ton of NCAA games in 2023 and 2024, earning the new pac-10 a ton of units and cash the departing schools can't share in.
And the blizzard of the century hits the Midwest in Jan., 2025, while USC and UCLA are on their first basketball trips to the Twin Cities and Iowa, shutting the region down and trapping them on the frozen tundra for a week.
Well, it's now down to UCLA for the Pac-12 and ASU for the Pac-10. I think SC in particular should get used to losing to B1G CBB teams on the road.
*edit and add SDSU, our future PAC partner :)
LOL!! I wonder how USC is feeling about losing to Michigan St yesterday; is it a sign of things to come when they officially join their new conference?
I don’t think that’s how it works. The departing schools would receive whatever revenue was earned from the seasons they were members of the conference. Wishful thinking.
The NCAA pays the revenue to the league, not the individual school. The league then divides it among its members. Since USC and UCLA won't be members after 7/1/2024, they are SOL.
Enjoy those Rutgers road trips, paying $3 million a year to Cal, and the football beatdowns you'll still get every week.
Actually, UCLA has an 80% winning percentage against the SEC/Big Ten combined this century, including wins over Alabama (twice), Michigan, Ohio State, Tennessee (twice), Nebraska (twice), LSU, and Texas A&M, as well as wins over Texas (twice) and Oklahoma. I’m sure we’ll be just fine. Lmao
Also, the conference can’t withhold revenue. It entirely depends on their grant of rights. UCLA/USC will be paid Pac-12 payouts for seasons they were members.
And the date of departure is August 2, 2024 not July 1, 2024. Trust me, I know, I’m counting the days to leave this mid-major conference with no other schools left in the tournament.
Good luck. UCLA and USC are the obnoxious couple that no one misses when they leave the party.
You couldn't be more wrong. NCAA tournament earned by UCLA this season and next season belongs to the Pacific conference. This is according to Jon Wilner.
As to whether UCLA owes anything to the Pacific Conference the above speaks for itself and while I respect your POV I happen to respect Bill Walton's POV far more than I do yours.
Yeah it belongs the the Pac-12, which UCLA is a member. Wilner’s article was talking about those units transferring to the Big Ten. That’s not what the original poster said. He’s talking about units earned during seasons UCLA/USC are members of the Pac-12. He’s wishing the Pac-12 can withhold the revenue from those payouts from seasons UCLA/USC are Pac-12 schools.
Finally, enjoy Bill Walton all you want and his no truck stops and little chairs. Honestly, the best part about leaving this sinking ship known as the Pac-12 is not having to hear Bill Walton anymore. That man is the most obnoxious human being. He alone drags down Pac-12 viewership.
The Tourney $ belongs to the Pacific conference. Period. End of sentence. The payout for the 2023 and 2024 tourneys will continue to be paid to the Pacific conference without UCLA and the B1G seeing a cent. Have I clarified this issue to a level that you can comprehend?
Additionally, UCLA isn't leaving without owing an undetermined amount of money to CAL. Year after year.
Have you reached puberty? Do you have any idea of the impact Bill Walton had on UCLA athletics? Have you heard of Kareem Al Jabbar? How about John Wooden?
Please tell us, what are your bona fides compared to Bill Walton's? I have 3 close friends who graduated from UCLA. They hate this move that they see as being engineered as a result of incompetence by the AD and the athletic director and Bloch, a guy who could care less about athletics. I very much doubt that the Pac Network would have more fans if Bill was not part of the broadcast crew.
The conference returns to unequal revenue sharing and FOX instead of buying SC and UCLA bids along with ESPN for conference media rights. The Network is sold to a 3rd party or files for liquidation. Would SC or UCLA have left for 10 to 15M more dollars? We don't know because the Pac commissioner was not allowed to compete with FOX.
If the conference is a sinking ship SC and UCLA fired a torpedo or 3.
UCLA isn’t paying Cal anything. That part of the vote was simply to allow future allocations of publicly funded dollars to Cal. It’s to allow further negotiations. Even so, it’s only for the life of the Big Ten media deal, which is 6 years.
I have multiple degrees from UCLA. Those are my bona fides. I come from a UCLA family. My uncles and aunt graduated from UCLA and they have at least one kid (my cousins) who have at least one degree from UCLA.
I don’t know what kind of UCLA people you’re associated to but nearly all UCLA constituents fall into one of two categories: (a) they love this move; or (b) they don’t love it but understand it was a necessity. Also, the UCLA AD is not incompetent. It was the previous AD who was incompetent. He’s the one who took a football program that had historically had an average AP finish of #10 and drop them to #17 with repeated bad coaching hires. Block is a bad administrator but the Big Ten move represents a shift in his thinking on athletics (along with going after Chip Kelly).
I do respect Bill Walton as a Bruin. I also like him personally. I’ve met him several times. I just don’t respect him as a color commentator. He’s nothing more than a special pleader for the Pac-12. His loyalty is to the Pac-12. Like Conzano and Wilner, Walton has professional and financial motives for seeing the Pac-12 succeed. They don’t want to be representatives of a borderline mid-major conference.
Lastly, you’re confusing two different issues on the NCAA units. The original poster is talking about withholding revenue earned during seasons UCLA/USC are members of the Pac-12. You’re talking about units transferring to the Big Ten, like the John Wilner article. The original poster admits he has no clue whether they can withhold those payouts. He’s just hopeful they can because like most Pac-12 people, he’s a bitter, butthurt person who wants to exploit UCLA/USC even though those schools never did any harm to the Pac-12. In other words, he’s a scumbag.
I understand why the Bruins are leaving. It's simply disappointing to the left behind Pac-10 members. I do not understand why any Trojans or Bruins fan would want to diss the Pac-10 on the way out the door.
My 3 friends I referred to all have undergraduate degrees from UCLA and two also have law degrees. I do not believe any single person can speak for how Bruins fans in general feel about the move to the B1G.
If the LA schools had given GK a negotiating shot and the conference went back to uneven revenue sharing that existed before Larry, I wonder if with both ESPN and FOX bidding for conference media rights if the Pac-12 could have come up with say $55M to $60M for SC and UCLA.? Would that have been enough money to keep the LA schools in the conference? I have no way of knowing.
In the case of uneven distributions, I think SC/UCLA would have been in a 1st tier payout with Oregon, UW, and maybe Utah in the 2nd tier. I also believe the revenue slice should be weighted on viewership numbers and the amount of capital a given conference member invests in CFB and CBB. I also believe that teams that succeed in the Moneyball playoffs should receive a bigger slice of the payout pie.
I wish nothing but the best for the Bruins going forward in the CBB tourney. I have cheered on UCLA basketball for decades, even before the arrival of John Wooden. My Dad who passed in 2017 at age 98 saw Wooden play for Purdue!
I have to disagree with you regarding Jon Wilner. I think he is a very good journalist.
Peace out.
You. Are. Relentless. And I love it.
Thank you.
To paraphrase Django: I’m curious why you so curious
John,
Just wanted to thank you for all your hard work in giving the honest truths about all of this nonsense. The Big 12 writers have been disappointing to say the least. Thanks for your efforts!
John, any word on expanding by adding a school not playing in G5 conference next year?
This is what I am always interested in.
At first it was entertaining watching the 12anon freaks come up with outlandish scenarios and stories which no one rational could ever believe outside of their followers, but lately just pure nasty BS - and so stupid it hurts your head to read. Their next act will consist of things like why ESPN+ > Amazon, but also get ready for some really stupid “production costs” arguments! Somehow these newfound contract and media experts are going to explain to us why we must deduct 8m or so from our media rights to cover production costs. That’s a new one! I’m not a media guy, but sure seems to me like having the PAC networks and infrastructure helps our cause here more than one that doesn’t.
Finally, I’m interested if John thinks there may be some blowback coming to the Big 12 for trying to damage the PAC to these extents. Going as far as hiring PR goons seems just so way out of bounds to me, and a horrible road to go down. The set up “sources” and channels they distributed through seem like a new low also. Surely the NCAA can’t tolerate this, can they? If that’s the new norm then it hurts us all.
I just read all the comments, in addition to John's quality reporting.
"It's Chinatown, Jake."
This is getting old. When it is settled let us know. Get on to something more important and I don't know what that would be. Better anything is better
Where is leadership from George in all of this negotiation noise?
I would have liked to hear more from him publicly... but what do you consider "leadership"? If he's in the background, negotiating a hell of a deal and serving his members, is that not leadership? Is leadership managing the expectations of you and me? Or leading his conference into a deal that is a good deal? Discuss.
John, yes to all of those. Leadership is not one thing. I think the idea that he simply answers to the schools is true, but it is bigger than that. In the absence of a message, others will fill the void. George is leaving the door open to at least short-term damage to the Pac12 brand. It is taking hits everyday. I think this does hurt when it comes to the football playoff committee thinking of the league. The Pac12 has done enough over the years by not being as competitive as we might hope and this just adds insult to injury. At the very least, make statements about being excited about the negotiation process and the future of the league. Open up for questions even if you can't answer them. Don't hide and leave an information hole. Holes will be filled by others with different agendas if you are not willing to fill them yourself.
Well if Kliavkoff did as you suggest he'd be exhausted just running around putting out all the imagined fires. I think he's doing fine...a little more information from him might be helpful, but not as you intimate.
If he gets a great or even really good deal done that will account for the silence. If it's not all that great then I guess it's of no consequence what he may have said along the way but didn't. Hope they come up with a really good one. Still I agree I personally would have wanted some kind of visible pro-PAC12 counter to the nattering nabobs of negativity.
Good question. I think you can do both. Sometimes marketing yourself and your stakeholders is highly important. Negotiating a great media rights deal is the top priority, but I think you can do both.
both?
Leadership will = the money GK brings in. He is negotiating with streaming companies that have not broadcast college athletics. He is saddled with a functionally insolvent network he has to deal with and ESPN is not going to bid against itself.
The B12 took the easy way and re-upped with ESPN/FOX for a bargain basement deal for the two broadcast entities. A deal that could look bad as early as within the next 30 days.