Thanks for doing your job - as usual - and providing great coverage on this event. It feels like the Pac (I won't call it Pac2 out of respect) essentially made the most of what it could. I doubt a Portland event would have gotten the same attendance. Even as an Oregon die-hard I intend to follow the exploits of OSU and WSU as they navigate these difficult waters. I know I can depend upon your reporting - just one of the reasons I subscribe.
Gould’s strongest remarks came when she pointed out that Oregon State and Washington State had never in their history competed at anything but the highest levels of college athletics and still belong there.
This is still doing damage to rebuilding the PAC...WE ARE NO LONGER A P5 School. We must get OVER OURSELVES, and quit projecting this elitist viewpoint that got us into this in the first place. WE NEED TRUE LEADERSHIP TO ACCEPT OUR CURRENT POSITION AND BUILD A MONSTER CONFERENCE...THE BEST OF THE REMAINING P4 Schools who will commit to 65-70M per year in athletics...It needs to be a NATIONAL CONFERENCE...If you back me into a corner, I'm coming out throwing haymakers...I'm not being cute throwing a worthless cocktail party (LAME)...WE NEED TRUE LEADERSHIP!!!
What is most disappointing about this event was the lack of promotion that it was happening and lack of live coverage. The Pac-2/Pac-12, Gould, OSU, WSU really dropped the ball on this as a lost opportunity. At the very least, said event should have been live streamed on the Pac-12 website; instead, we'll wait for who knows how long to find it on YouTube. Maybe OSU and WSU will go all-out for their own on-campus football media days and actually try and market and promote themselves ... but based on past history, highly unlikely.
Alumni emails promoted the event, as did Yogi Roth (who believed there would be live streaming initially day of). However NOTHING on the pac12 website, X or FB. NOTHING on either schools social media platforms or websites. More frustrating was the last minute warning given by Daschel, the only source, to state there would be no livestream and MAYBE it gets released later (Thursday?).
I get maybe livestreaming wasn't possible due to less staff or maybe they were nervous livestreaming an event that might turn into a bust... But at least have info for the the alumni and fans on what the plans are. I am patient if I know what is going on. Instead I wasted four hours of my life trying to track down info. Media Days have two audiences... The press and the fans... How on earth did they drop the ball?
John likes to promote Teresa, but if here comments are milk toast once again, I am very wary that she is part of the long line of incompetent Commissioners in the pac12. If so how long will Schultz and Murthy hang onto her, or will they ride off the cliff with her like George and Larry? I sure hope I am wrong.
1000%. Feels like more insider stand around and do nothing, like the other inside jobbers...I get the feeling they really are just waiting to grab a life raft.
Every team in the prior pac12 has the exact same issue... Or did you miss how UW, UO and SC are responsible for pushing George into his position via UW president's email
I've been trying to understand why certain Duck fans keep showing up here with unpleasant comments about the Pac-12 when they have their own much-bigger sandbox to play in? Why do they even care anymore?
But I think I've figured it out.
They're miffed that John C continues, as he does here, to mention how OSU and WSU got dumped into their current position by no fault of their own.
Let the triggering begin.
Having all the toys in the sandbox isn't enough for some Duck and Husky fans. They can't have anyone noticing their muddy hands.
Agreed... The "why don't they die already" mentality is baffling. Sure I play "hate the rival" on posts or during the season, but in reality it's just part of the fun watching the game. I don't really hate Lanning or the puddle chicken players... What a sad existence to really hate people playing a sport to the extent you want terrible things to happen to them.
Not sure if you follow European soccer on even a cursory level, but several years ago there was serious talk of forming a Super League of a dozen or so big brand teams from the associations in England, Spain, France, Germany and Italy. The Super League teams would have been overflowing with money, while the other clubs would fall farther behind economically. (sound familiar?) The outcry over there was so overwhelming that they backed off the plan. Thing is even the fans of the teams that would have been in the Super League were angry.
Contrast that with college football in the US (which as far as structure and economics, might be the closest thing to Euro soccer we have in the US). The fans of the big brand teams love the idea of seeing their rivals being financially starved to the point that they barely even exist anymore. It goes well beyond a mere desire to defeat them on the field.
I think some Duck fans just want the Beavs to shut up and die because they dislike the reminder of their part in the ugly of last August. Plus they'd maybe get back some of the millions from the lawsuit.
It's like the Beavers got diagnosed with stage 3 lung cancer as non-smokers. Then their oncologist tells them that, well, maybe it's partly their fault because of something obscure in their DNA. Plus the chemo may or may not work. So how 'bout we just let you die? And be quiet about it. (And of course your extra insurance money will be conveniently returned to your brother who abandoned you.)
Maybe recieved the stage3 lung cancer from second hand smoke from your roommates. The roommate smokers are cancer free, blame you and are blame-free because "you could have moved out at anytime"
I have a huge number of friends and relatives who went to both schools. I don’t hate either one and don’t want terrible things to happen to them. I just think they should admit the reality of the situation and get rid of this fantasy that somehow the PAC 12 brand still has its former cachet, and that by somehow bringing in 6 or 8 second tier teams, they’ll somehow return to the top tier. It just isn’t going to happen. But I understand that many associated with the schools and conference are still in the anger or denial stages of grief.
But that is completely false. The ACC is on the brink of collapse.. FSU and Clemson were turned down by both SEC and B1G, supposedly... And they are now looking to be in the Big12.. That really changes available teams.
And remember, the $250 million is linked to the Conference, not the teams. Giving up on the pac12 is just throwing hundreds of millions of dollars away... That is the dumbest approach possible
You’re half right. You still have to invest the $250 million into something and watch it grow. Sitting on money and having an open bar night does little for anyone’s encouragement. The Beav and Coug fans that think the rest of us should just fade into the bushes. We just roll our eyes at disbelief instead, at the feeble attempts to band-aid the conference. It’s sad. I’m sad for OSU and WSU.
I actually don’t care, because they aren’t my schools, but this is a comment section, not a pro-PAC 2 echo chamber, so I’m free to voice my opinion, right?
Thanks John. You've been spot on with your insistence the Pac2 market and fight for themselves. They should have been doing it from the moment the rest of the conference left them. Shout it out loud every day, make sure you're in the news every single day exposing the hypocrisy and collusion going on. Don't worry about pissing anyone or any other conference off, they're to busy pissing all over you!! But for the most part, they've sat quiet, played by the rules and have made sure to not ruffle any feathers. The exception was when they were FORCED to bring suit against the leaving members or they would have lost their entire athletic programs. Other than that, they continue to sit back and play nicely with everyone. The same strategy that landed them in this position. It's clear they don't understand the game and really haven't since the 70s when things started to change. Sad to say it, but they got what they EARNED. Small time athletics now, from small time thinking over decades. They've always played checkers while everyone else was playing chess.
I could market better out of my bedroom as a side job than what they are doing. It is absolutely frustrating.
Gould acts like PAC2 is an insult and not allowed to be used... What a missed opportunity! Make lots of Pac12 with the "1"crossed out... Promote it not just for the conference, but for the those across the nation unhappy with how NIL transfer portal and conference realignment has changed college athletics... Tap into that national emotion!!!!
Butters they refuse and want to play nice... Absolutely frustrating
I agree we need to be MUCH louder. We need to be aggressive, buying commercial slots, social media, more content, interviews, documentaries, etc. The only thing I will say in their defense is that I believe I read they have to hang on to the PAC 12 brand for legal reasons. Contracts with sponsors and things of that nature are with the PAC 12. May also have something to do with the cfp language. Not sure about that part though.
The question still remains, how did OSU and WSU let themselves get into this situation? Just about everything I’ve read over the past year or so blames the other ten PAC12 teams and not themselves. They sat back and just watched. They never promoted themselves going back years. They’re just a generic brand of a university. Nothing special. Nothing marketable.
So OSU and WSU should have made a secret, preemptive deal with Yormark in June of 2023 and been the the first ones to jump ship? That would take UO and UW off the hook, wouldn't it? No thanks. We'll either save the Pac12 and rebuild it or end up joining the Big12/ACC. Generic brand? OSU is the flagship university in this state, the Beaver State. Oregon and UW need to own responsibility for destroying the Pac12. And don't worry about OSU and WSU, they'll land on their feet, as usual.
Doing ANYTHING proactively would have been better than what we have now. Blaming others for acting in their own self interests is pointless, and misdirected. As well as functionally irrelevant.
Better to get started on building a better AND more realistic future, while preserving the small, but not insignificant, niche in history that the Pac has, to retain a connection to those interested, who will also be a part of the future (but only if you keep them engaged).
Better decision making after trip to Fiesta Bowl, better fundraising, build an national brand, and when Texas, Notre Dame and SEC had their own networks know that you actually have to prepare for the worst! Problem is you relied on backroom politics and that backfired in the end!
The presidents of both OSU and WSU were major enablers of Larry Scott and Kliavkoff, so those schools along with a few others like ASU played a major role in the demise of the conference. One can’t only lay the blame on USC and UCLA, or CU, UO and UW for leaving.
Laying the blame on OSU, WSU and ASU is lazy, plus it's not accurate. USC made the decision to leave the Pac12 and it stunned the CFB world. People are still in shock. The other 9 schools who left were followers. UCLA, UO and UW followed USC to Big10. Utah, UA and ASU followed CU to Big 12. OSU and WSU will rebuild when Stanford and Cal return.
UCLA was definitely a follower. Then, Colorado which we now know got $2.5 million from Yormark to jump to the Big12. Then, Arizona which was meeting secretly with the Big12. After learning about the latter two, the Big Ten came in for UW/UO...which at that point was likely to be a Pac8 instead of a Pac12. A Pac8 was not going to garner sufficient media money and UW wisely accepted the offer followed by UO. Arizona already knew the terms of offer from the Big12 and quickly officially followed. I suspect Utah will always wonder what the outcome could have been if they had been more proactive.
OSU/WSU were between a rock and a hard place. Especially OSU. Just too many losing seasons for a brand renovation?
Anyone who was or is stunned by USC's move, giving the apparent state of the industry, is woefully (criminally if in a position of decision making) uninformed and situationally unaware at best, and dangerously delusional at worst.
WSU has done a better job, and they are in an even tougher & remote spot.
OSU University leadership invested in the major programs instead of a revolving series of interim & failed moves would have helped. That also would have led to a more rapid enhancement of facilities, instead of a series of patchwork patches that don't address fundamental inadequacies that were too little, and much too late.
Also, instead of constant spin trying to tout things as "the best" that clearly aren't, and suppressing anything critical (absolutely destroyed any vestige of credibility), actually being situationally aware, and just presenting an actual better product would have helped. The Anderson debacle was obviously just that after the first month of the first season, and rivaled the Pettibone debacle. Yet both were allowed to persist doing serious long term damage for years.
It is also counterproductive to constantly mock your more successful rivals (mostly but not exclusively the school down the road, there is plenty of nonsense directed at the Purple gang up north, and USC as well) out of jealousy, rather than learn from what made them more successful. No program should just copy everything anyone else is doing, because the circumstances are different, but the "We aren't, and are the opposite of, them!" (and we obviously aren't) approach is a disaster, and closed doors/missed opportunities.
But at this point, what's done is done, and what's not done is still not done. Important to honestly learn from the mistakes, rather than deny them, or place blame (which won't actually fix anything), and start making better situationally aware decisions going forward.
Better to have joined the Mt West, a good football and very good basketball conference, and salvage some recruiting, than be in a lesser hoops conference, and in no football conference, and leverage what there is to work with there, which is about the best there is to "rebuild" with anyway.
There is a path to a top 25 program, and when things are right, a top 10 program, and a CFP bid, and more NCAA Tournament bids, worth just as much per game there as in a P4 conference, available, there.
There are 200+ million reasons for OSU and WSU to not join the Mt. West. They’d have to divide up all that money with the 10 schools that are leaving. Still have some time to figure out what to do.
Again, the ten PAC12 teams that moved on were proactive vs reactive and it irreparably hurt WSU and OSU. I stick with my comments. Good luck to both schools.
Whoa, the only school that was proactive was USC. The Trojans made the single, pre-emptive strike, UCLA was thrown a bone and allowed to follow. All other schools were reactive. Let's not try to rewrite Pac12 history. Oregon and UW followed USC because that's what they are, followers. FOX/Big10 never wanted UO/UW until the AppleTV deal was ready to be signed, then UO and UW were offered by Big10 and used as pawns to stop Apple from entering CFB as a broadcasting platform. It's time to be honest.
The B1G didn't initially want UW & UO, at least right away, as that was a big step for a conservative group that had already made a major move in the LA schools & market. But when it became apparent that the Pac would collapse due to snubbing ESPN followed by the Apple debacle/boondoggle, the B1G (wisely) snapped up 2 strong brands, and 1 major market, before someone else did.
WOW. Followers. Ok, man. If you say so. 🤣 In five years time, USC and UCLA may be the ones “irreparably hurt” by leaving the Pac in the first place, as Oregon and Washington surpass the LA schools in NIL and marketability. Maybe it would have been better to stick up for you guys (OSU/WSU) to the B1G, and put you in our backpacks, and demand we bring you with us! Sheesh.
OS is not the flagship University in this state! It's the political power child of insider deals! Oregon AD since the turn of the century, in order to get secure 80-million-dollar state bond to expand Autzen has not tapped into academic subsidizes like the 200 million plus at OS! Also, Oregon had to run a balanced budget since the turn of the century as that was part of the bond deal! OS reports up to 15 million dollars a year in AD losses that is also well over 200 million. OS fans ride the backs of the Student Tuition costs throughout a political Oregon University system where the policy is no matter how well you run your school the financial distribution of State dollars ensures every school see an equal increase in tuition hikes! When my daughter went to Oregon state support for each Oregonian attending the U of O was over $2500 a year per student; now it's $1150! Oregon and Washington did not freaking destroy the Pac 12 you dope...When you and WSU with other small schools decided USC did not deserve a larger cut in conference revenue distribution you pushed USC out! With the backroom politics you play Oregon and Washington left as they knew the greed of OS and WSU as bottom feeders would just suck more revenue out! The fact that OS and WSU have assets, cannot really generate revenue themselves, and no sustainable funding! Get in the real world! I saw this coming 5 years plus and no OregonMedia person dare tell OS and WSU fans the truth! They were just mouth pieces for the two schools! Canzano cannot even bring in neutral financial people to truly and independently evaluate OS! That says a lot right there. Go blow your nose and understand the PaWac 2 is solely in the hands of WSU and OS piss poor management!
Enrollment numbers. Graduation numbers. Science and engineering. New robotics and AI center. OSU crushes Oregon. What does Oregon provide....a degree in the humanities? lolz
Question is if you have so much distain for WSU and OSU, and think the new conference allotments are going to be so great, why are you wasting your time here? Why are you reading about such “pathetic” schools? You don’t have better ways to spend your time? Doesn’t make logical sense to me but….
You’re right! Had Bill Bowerman not coached at Oregon, pushed sports science, recruited Phil Knight (and others like Tinker Hatfield), mentored Phil Knight and then partnered with him. The entire state of Oregon would not have enjoyed many riches!
Think about the entire picture! Where did OS fail? They hired Dee Andros as Coach then removed him as Coach and made him AD! I would say OS has been mismanaged since hiring Dee!
No schools are created equal. Oregon has Knight, USC has sunshine, a recruiting mother lode within 10 miles, and a massive TV market which brings revenue value. University of New Mexico has not much of anything.
Yes, Oregon was very lucky with Knight, but they’ve also made sure in hiring their presidents, AD’s, and head coaches that they got people who were all in on football, which allowed them to fully harness the Knight situation. Unlike, for example, Oklahoma State and T. Boone Pickens.
The Knights started academic donations in the late 80’s and have done more academically than Athletically. Latest academic donation for five new science buildings - 1 billion dollars. Nice complain dude
The sequence: USC>UCLA>Colorado>Arizona....the B1G did not reconnect with UW until they heard about Arizona meeting with Yormark. As soon as UW/UO announced, Arizona took the Big12 deal within minutes because the Apple deal was deficient by comparison to the Big12.
There was a USA Today story this week about Big12 giving Colorado $2.5M as incentive to jump. Would be interesting to know if they were offering Arizona at same time and told the two the first to accept gets it?
Tex/OU left. USC/UCLA left. Clemson/FSU wants to leave. When you can't hold on to your biggest brand schools bad crap happens. Colorado and Arizona made preemptive moves, then UW/UO reacted - especially UW. UO in a Pac7 would not have been a happy landing spot.
Colorado barely was Pac12 and were easily replaced. So no your list is wrong. Plus AZ might have left on its own, but ASU was required to come along and they were firm in the pac12 boat.
UO and UW both agreed to the Apple deal with a tentative handshake, then hours later jumped and didn't tell anyone. That is backstabbing to the highest degree. Even the UW president admitted this.
What is with UO fans doing everything they can to act like it they don't have blood on their hands. SC makes me upset, but at least their fans own up to the dirty deed
The sequence is accurate according to the Tucson newspaper several weeks ago. Their "insider" info was the UA athletic dept. There were serious discussions between UA and Yormark and a "tentative deal" until UA saw the Apple number. Unfortunately, you can't keep much secret in athletics and the Big Ten went after UW when those discussions leaked. As the UW president "admitted" the Big Ten money vs the most optimistic Apple deal didn't make it a hard decision.
Read your report, thanks. But as I do so I'm shaking my head. So many people who are clinging to hope upon hope, whistling past the graveyard if you will. A media event with two teams on stage? I'm afraid that about 4 games into the upcoming football season, the Cougars and Beavers, their coaching staffs, and fans are going to look around and realize that they are, in essence, playing for nothing this year. These two schools will have to ultimately just hold their noses and join another conference -- anything to get in some sort of playoff picture. They are both too small to operate as independents in football and get any sort of national attention. Time to stop wishing, hoping and pining about the past. Join another conference and get on with it.
I think that decision point comes at the end of football season. The ACC, Stanford and Cal and the Mt.West all have potential roles in the next step. Acting too soon is a bad idea, but Dec/Jan is probably the deadline.
It all starts with these two school’s location which was a land grant in a rural area. If these two schools were somehow in major media markets they would never have been left behind. This is no fault of their own, it is reality. On a smaller scale, it’s the same problem for the lower tier Mountain West teams. Where a college is located (unless, of course, you have a Nike in your pocket) will always be a drawback in the age of national TV money going where the audience is.
Schools like Penn State and Virginia Tech are land grant universities that aren't exactly located in major markets. But they are located in regions where they could recruit enough good players in their area to compete on a national level. OSU and WSU have never had that advantage. PSU/VT also had successful coaches that stuck around for a very long time, so that continuity enabled them to build their brands over the long haul.
The landscape has changed now. If you have a great program and a good NIL collective, you can get players from anywhere in the country to come to you....the flip side is coaches never stick around for very long these days.
VA Tech has had losing seasons 4 of last 6 years. Broke a 3 yr losing record streak last year by going 7-6 and that’s in the ACC. Their joyride ended in 2011, Frank Beamer not roaming those sidelines ever again, they are irrelevant now.
Penn State has won the B10 4 times in 33 years and never made the CFP. They are more myth than legend these days. Last national championship was 1986, nearly 40 years ago.
VT made a poor coaching hire after Beamer retired. That has nothing to do with them being a land grant school located hours away from a major media market.
Yes but both schools have rabid fan bases which sell out their stadiums win or lose. Penn State gets 100,000 fans per game to remote State College vs. the 25,000 WSU averages.
Take Phil Knight away and Ducks are in same boat as WSU/OSU. All you have to do is look at the athletic history prior to Phil’s money and there was no national brand or success.
But it is a much more major market than Corvallis or Pullman, and UofO also delivers Portland (which OSU does not), and UofO (differentiate from Eugene) remade themselves into a regional brand they could and did market/transform into a national brand.
In part, but this is revisionist history. Rich Brooks pushed for investment and other moves to "get into the club" (his words) of the programs that were regularly, not just occasionally, in the picture, and the transformation was already underway, but of course also encountered obstacles, and alumni Phil Knight, with both resources and connections, asked "What do you need? How can I help?" That provided an enduring boost to what Oregon had to work with.
Another Pac 12 story from John Canzano. It doesn’t exist anymore, but that doesn’t mean we cant pretend. A cocktail party with old friends, a trip to Las Vegas. Down and out with Oregon and Washington State. Maybe you could catch a summer league game while you are there.
No jokes for the Pac-2, just a bit a sadness, in my opinion. Like when Spinal Tap tried to promote their “Black” album. I don’t know how this helps their cause for the future, other than a “rah-rah” session. Or, to raise a glass to what once was… like Gould may have suggested….
Well for me, there has never been a year with so many unknowns for the Beavs.
New coaches, new players, new conference, new facilities, new teams scheduled, new cfp format
Normally this would be death of a team, but Bray and Co have been getting recruits in the background, just winning a four star QB... They know something we don't and I am super curious what it is
In this era of one-and-done transfer opportunities, I think more kids should think about going to schools outside the "top 30" or so. It is no longer a 4-5 year decision.
Every time I read one of your articles about the PAC 12/2 John, it's like the band aide being ripped off a wound again. With re-alignment pending down the road, these two schools should be a lesson for all small market schools in conferences. Money rules, and not being proactive while Larry Scott destroyed the conference, has led to this current situation. I can't recall the number of fan-site posts I read and contributed to over the years, wanting Scott fired. And shocked over his mismanagement. So you make your bed and now you lie in it. I don't anticipate seeing a 'real' major conference rising from the ashes here. The historical ties small TV market teams have with major conference is coming to a close. Once TV deals became a reality, and radio-newspaper coverage waned, it was only a matter of time. You can't force a media company to pay big bucks for small market players.
TV networks are after the casual viewers, those being the ones who only watch about a half dozen games over the course of the season. They aren't loyal to any particular team, but they'll watch when two big brand name square off. So the answer to making more money is to lure those casual viewers with more matchups of the big names, and you accomplish that by consolidating them (a.k.a. conference realignment).
Of course in doing that you also destroy what made college football unique, and that risks losing the viewers who are actual fans of the sport who become turned off to the point they stop caring enough to watch. I guess the networks have run the numbers to the point where they know losing some viewers will happen and they will still have a net gain from realigning conferences, but it seems like a risky proposition to me considering what a great thing they already had.
OSU is the flagship university of our state if nothing else, cause it is a Land, Air, Sea and Space grant university. Combined with extension offices and the ROTC programs, it is fulfilling its role that it was originally established for. The business of Football and to a certain extent other sports doesn't change any of that. With the new terms of how student athletes are compensated has changed the landscape--thus OSU and WSU have a new challenge.
It would be interesting to see if U of O wanted to take the lead by establishing an Ag or Engineering program.....
Thanks for doing your job - as usual - and providing great coverage on this event. It feels like the Pac (I won't call it Pac2 out of respect) essentially made the most of what it could. I doubt a Portland event would have gotten the same attendance. Even as an Oregon die-hard I intend to follow the exploits of OSU and WSU as they navigate these difficult waters. I know I can depend upon your reporting - just one of the reasons I subscribe.
Gould’s strongest remarks came when she pointed out that Oregon State and Washington State had never in their history competed at anything but the highest levels of college athletics and still belong there.
“Why is that even a question?” she said.
Well, because they no longer are, that's why.
This is still doing damage to rebuilding the PAC...WE ARE NO LONGER A P5 School. We must get OVER OURSELVES, and quit projecting this elitist viewpoint that got us into this in the first place. WE NEED TRUE LEADERSHIP TO ACCEPT OUR CURRENT POSITION AND BUILD A MONSTER CONFERENCE...THE BEST OF THE REMAINING P4 Schools who will commit to 65-70M per year in athletics...It needs to be a NATIONAL CONFERENCE...If you back me into a corner, I'm coming out throwing haymakers...I'm not being cute throwing a worthless cocktail party (LAME)...WE NEED TRUE LEADERSHIP!!!
For two seasons, we don't know moving forward
In Gould’s defense, neither are Cal and Stanford.
What is most disappointing about this event was the lack of promotion that it was happening and lack of live coverage. The Pac-2/Pac-12, Gould, OSU, WSU really dropped the ball on this as a lost opportunity. At the very least, said event should have been live streamed on the Pac-12 website; instead, we'll wait for who knows how long to find it on YouTube. Maybe OSU and WSU will go all-out for their own on-campus football media days and actually try and market and promote themselves ... but based on past history, highly unlikely.
I was furious about this.
Alumni emails promoted the event, as did Yogi Roth (who believed there would be live streaming initially day of). However NOTHING on the pac12 website, X or FB. NOTHING on either schools social media platforms or websites. More frustrating was the last minute warning given by Daschel, the only source, to state there would be no livestream and MAYBE it gets released later (Thursday?).
I get maybe livestreaming wasn't possible due to less staff or maybe they were nervous livestreaming an event that might turn into a bust... But at least have info for the the alumni and fans on what the plans are. I am patient if I know what is going on. Instead I wasted four hours of my life trying to track down info. Media Days have two audiences... The press and the fans... How on earth did they drop the ball?
John likes to promote Teresa, but if here comments are milk toast once again, I am very wary that she is part of the long line of incompetent Commissioners in the pac12. If so how long will Schultz and Murthy hang onto her, or will they ride off the cliff with her like George and Larry? I sure hope I am wrong.
1000%. Feels like more insider stand around and do nothing, like the other inside jobbers...I get the feeling they really are just waiting to grab a life raft.
Just typical leadership at OS, WSU and the manager they hired! See the trend continues
Every team in the prior pac12 has the exact same issue... Or did you miss how UW, UO and SC are responsible for pushing George into his position via UW president's email
I've been trying to understand why certain Duck fans keep showing up here with unpleasant comments about the Pac-12 when they have their own much-bigger sandbox to play in? Why do they even care anymore?
But I think I've figured it out.
They're miffed that John C continues, as he does here, to mention how OSU and WSU got dumped into their current position by no fault of their own.
Let the triggering begin.
Having all the toys in the sandbox isn't enough for some Duck and Husky fans. They can't have anyone noticing their muddy hands.
Agreed... The "why don't they die already" mentality is baffling. Sure I play "hate the rival" on posts or during the season, but in reality it's just part of the fun watching the game. I don't really hate Lanning or the puddle chicken players... What a sad existence to really hate people playing a sport to the extent you want terrible things to happen to them.
Not sure if you follow European soccer on even a cursory level, but several years ago there was serious talk of forming a Super League of a dozen or so big brand teams from the associations in England, Spain, France, Germany and Italy. The Super League teams would have been overflowing with money, while the other clubs would fall farther behind economically. (sound familiar?) The outcry over there was so overwhelming that they backed off the plan. Thing is even the fans of the teams that would have been in the Super League were angry.
Contrast that with college football in the US (which as far as structure and economics, might be the closest thing to Euro soccer we have in the US). The fans of the big brand teams love the idea of seeing their rivals being financially starved to the point that they barely even exist anymore. It goes well beyond a mere desire to defeat them on the field.
I think some Duck fans just want the Beavs to shut up and die because they dislike the reminder of their part in the ugly of last August. Plus they'd maybe get back some of the millions from the lawsuit.
It's like the Beavers got diagnosed with stage 3 lung cancer as non-smokers. Then their oncologist tells them that, well, maybe it's partly their fault because of something obscure in their DNA. Plus the chemo may or may not work. So how 'bout we just let you die? And be quiet about it. (And of course your extra insurance money will be conveniently returned to your brother who abandoned you.)
Maybe recieved the stage3 lung cancer from second hand smoke from your roommates. The roommate smokers are cancer free, blame you and are blame-free because "you could have moved out at anytime"
I have a huge number of friends and relatives who went to both schools. I don’t hate either one and don’t want terrible things to happen to them. I just think they should admit the reality of the situation and get rid of this fantasy that somehow the PAC 12 brand still has its former cachet, and that by somehow bringing in 6 or 8 second tier teams, they’ll somehow return to the top tier. It just isn’t going to happen. But I understand that many associated with the schools and conference are still in the anger or denial stages of grief.
But that is completely false. The ACC is on the brink of collapse.. FSU and Clemson were turned down by both SEC and B1G, supposedly... And they are now looking to be in the Big12.. That really changes available teams.
And remember, the $250 million is linked to the Conference, not the teams. Giving up on the pac12 is just throwing hundreds of millions of dollars away... That is the dumbest approach possible
You’re half right. You still have to invest the $250 million into something and watch it grow. Sitting on money and having an open bar night does little for anyone’s encouragement. The Beav and Coug fans that think the rest of us should just fade into the bushes. We just roll our eyes at disbelief instead, at the feeble attempts to band-aid the conference. It’s sad. I’m sad for OSU and WSU.
If it’s not your grieving process, then why do you even care?
I actually don’t care, because they aren’t my schools, but this is a comment section, not a pro-PAC 2 echo chamber, so I’m free to voice my opinion, right?
Puddle chickens. Yeah you hate the Ducks. Lol
Thanks John. You've been spot on with your insistence the Pac2 market and fight for themselves. They should have been doing it from the moment the rest of the conference left them. Shout it out loud every day, make sure you're in the news every single day exposing the hypocrisy and collusion going on. Don't worry about pissing anyone or any other conference off, they're to busy pissing all over you!! But for the most part, they've sat quiet, played by the rules and have made sure to not ruffle any feathers. The exception was when they were FORCED to bring suit against the leaving members or they would have lost their entire athletic programs. Other than that, they continue to sit back and play nicely with everyone. The same strategy that landed them in this position. It's clear they don't understand the game and really haven't since the 70s when things started to change. Sad to say it, but they got what they EARNED. Small time athletics now, from small time thinking over decades. They've always played checkers while everyone else was playing chess.
Sadly, on the marketing end, I have to agree.
I could market better out of my bedroom as a side job than what they are doing. It is absolutely frustrating.
Gould acts like PAC2 is an insult and not allowed to be used... What a missed opportunity! Make lots of Pac12 with the "1"crossed out... Promote it not just for the conference, but for the those across the nation unhappy with how NIL transfer portal and conference realignment has changed college athletics... Tap into that national emotion!!!!
Butters they refuse and want to play nice... Absolutely frustrating
I agree we need to be MUCH louder. We need to be aggressive, buying commercial slots, social media, more content, interviews, documentaries, etc. The only thing I will say in their defense is that I believe I read they have to hang on to the PAC 12 brand for legal reasons. Contracts with sponsors and things of that nature are with the PAC 12. May also have something to do with the cfp language. Not sure about that part though.
1000%
The question still remains, how did OSU and WSU let themselves get into this situation? Just about everything I’ve read over the past year or so blames the other ten PAC12 teams and not themselves. They sat back and just watched. They never promoted themselves going back years. They’re just a generic brand of a university. Nothing special. Nothing marketable.
So OSU and WSU should have made a secret, preemptive deal with Yormark in June of 2023 and been the the first ones to jump ship? That would take UO and UW off the hook, wouldn't it? No thanks. We'll either save the Pac12 and rebuild it or end up joining the Big12/ACC. Generic brand? OSU is the flagship university in this state, the Beaver State. Oregon and UW need to own responsibility for destroying the Pac12. And don't worry about OSU and WSU, they'll land on their feet, as usual.
Doing ANYTHING proactively would have been better than what we have now. Blaming others for acting in their own self interests is pointless, and misdirected. As well as functionally irrelevant.
Better to get started on building a better AND more realistic future, while preserving the small, but not insignificant, niche in history that the Pac has, to retain a connection to those interested, who will also be a part of the future (but only if you keep them engaged).
Andy, hindsight is 20/10. Let's hear your proactive scenario for OSU and WSU before it all went down. What should they have done specifically?
Better decision making after trip to Fiesta Bowl, better fundraising, build an national brand, and when Texas, Notre Dame and SEC had their own networks know that you actually have to prepare for the worst! Problem is you relied on backroom politics and that backfired in the end!
The presidents of both OSU and WSU were major enablers of Larry Scott and Kliavkoff, so those schools along with a few others like ASU played a major role in the demise of the conference. One can’t only lay the blame on USC and UCLA, or CU, UO and UW for leaving.
Laying the blame on OSU, WSU and ASU is lazy, plus it's not accurate. USC made the decision to leave the Pac12 and it stunned the CFB world. People are still in shock. The other 9 schools who left were followers. UCLA, UO and UW followed USC to Big10. Utah, UA and ASU followed CU to Big 12. OSU and WSU will rebuild when Stanford and Cal return.
I’m not laying all the blame on them, but they carry a big share. And don’t be surprised if Stanford also ends up in the B1G.
UCLA was definitely a follower. Then, Colorado which we now know got $2.5 million from Yormark to jump to the Big12. Then, Arizona which was meeting secretly with the Big12. After learning about the latter two, the Big Ten came in for UW/UO...which at that point was likely to be a Pac8 instead of a Pac12. A Pac8 was not going to garner sufficient media money and UW wisely accepted the offer followed by UO. Arizona already knew the terms of offer from the Big12 and quickly officially followed. I suspect Utah will always wonder what the outcome could have been if they had been more proactive.
OSU/WSU were between a rock and a hard place. Especially OSU. Just too many losing seasons for a brand renovation?
Anyone who was or is stunned by USC's move, giving the apparent state of the industry, is woefully (criminally if in a position of decision making) uninformed and situationally unaware at best, and dangerously delusional at worst.
WSU has done a better job, and they are in an even tougher & remote spot.
OSU University leadership invested in the major programs instead of a revolving series of interim & failed moves would have helped. That also would have led to a more rapid enhancement of facilities, instead of a series of patchwork patches that don't address fundamental inadequacies that were too little, and much too late.
Also, instead of constant spin trying to tout things as "the best" that clearly aren't, and suppressing anything critical (absolutely destroyed any vestige of credibility), actually being situationally aware, and just presenting an actual better product would have helped. The Anderson debacle was obviously just that after the first month of the first season, and rivaled the Pettibone debacle. Yet both were allowed to persist doing serious long term damage for years.
It is also counterproductive to constantly mock your more successful rivals (mostly but not exclusively the school down the road, there is plenty of nonsense directed at the Purple gang up north, and USC as well) out of jealousy, rather than learn from what made them more successful. No program should just copy everything anyone else is doing, because the circumstances are different, but the "We aren't, and are the opposite of, them!" (and we obviously aren't) approach is a disaster, and closed doors/missed opportunities.
But at this point, what's done is done, and what's not done is still not done. Important to honestly learn from the mistakes, rather than deny them, or place blame (which won't actually fix anything), and start making better situationally aware decisions going forward.
Better to have joined the Mt West, a good football and very good basketball conference, and salvage some recruiting, than be in a lesser hoops conference, and in no football conference, and leverage what there is to work with there, which is about the best there is to "rebuild" with anyway.
There is a path to a top 25 program, and when things are right, a top 10 program, and a CFP bid, and more NCAA Tournament bids, worth just as much per game there as in a P4 conference, available, there.
There are 200+ million reasons for OSU and WSU to not join the Mt. West. They’d have to divide up all that money with the 10 schools that are leaving. Still have some time to figure out what to do.
Again, the ten PAC12 teams that moved on were proactive vs reactive and it irreparably hurt WSU and OSU. I stick with my comments. Good luck to both schools.
Whoa, the only school that was proactive was USC. The Trojans made the single, pre-emptive strike, UCLA was thrown a bone and allowed to follow. All other schools were reactive. Let's not try to rewrite Pac12 history. Oregon and UW followed USC because that's what they are, followers. FOX/Big10 never wanted UO/UW until the AppleTV deal was ready to be signed, then UO and UW were offered by Big10 and used as pawns to stop Apple from entering CFB as a broadcasting platform. It's time to be honest.
The B1G didn't initially want UW & UO, at least right away, as that was a big step for a conservative group that had already made a major move in the LA schools & market. But when it became apparent that the Pac would collapse due to snubbing ESPN followed by the Apple debacle/boondoggle, the B1G (wisely) snapped up 2 strong brands, and 1 major market, before someone else did.
WOW. Followers. Ok, man. If you say so. 🤣 In five years time, USC and UCLA may be the ones “irreparably hurt” by leaving the Pac in the first place, as Oregon and Washington surpass the LA schools in NIL and marketability. Maybe it would have been better to stick up for you guys (OSU/WSU) to the B1G, and put you in our backpacks, and demand we bring you with us! Sheesh.
you are full of it and yourself!
I'm just here tap dancing the facts on people.
So your OSU and WSU are not a bit at fault for their situation. I’ll take Oregon and Washington as followers any time then. Lol
🤣
OS is not the flagship University in this state! It's the political power child of insider deals! Oregon AD since the turn of the century, in order to get secure 80-million-dollar state bond to expand Autzen has not tapped into academic subsidizes like the 200 million plus at OS! Also, Oregon had to run a balanced budget since the turn of the century as that was part of the bond deal! OS reports up to 15 million dollars a year in AD losses that is also well over 200 million. OS fans ride the backs of the Student Tuition costs throughout a political Oregon University system where the policy is no matter how well you run your school the financial distribution of State dollars ensures every school see an equal increase in tuition hikes! When my daughter went to Oregon state support for each Oregonian attending the U of O was over $2500 a year per student; now it's $1150! Oregon and Washington did not freaking destroy the Pac 12 you dope...When you and WSU with other small schools decided USC did not deserve a larger cut in conference revenue distribution you pushed USC out! With the backroom politics you play Oregon and Washington left as they knew the greed of OS and WSU as bottom feeders would just suck more revenue out! The fact that OS and WSU have assets, cannot really generate revenue themselves, and no sustainable funding! Get in the real world! I saw this coming 5 years plus and no OregonMedia person dare tell OS and WSU fans the truth! They were just mouth pieces for the two schools! Canzano cannot even bring in neutral financial people to truly and independently evaluate OS! That says a lot right there. Go blow your nose and understand the PaWac 2 is solely in the hands of WSU and OS piss poor management!
Enrollment numbers. Graduation numbers. Science and engineering. New robotics and AI center. OSU crushes Oregon. What does Oregon provide....a degree in the humanities? lolz
That doesn’t even warrant a response. You’re just another bitter beaver.
Like I said you are full of yourself!
You’re Wrong. Oregon and Washington DID destroy the Pac12. Along with Sc and UCLA.
You have no facts and typical beaver whiner bias!
Question is if you have so much distain for WSU and OSU, and think the new conference allotments are going to be so great, why are you wasting your time here? Why are you reading about such “pathetic” schools? You don’t have better ways to spend your time? Doesn’t make logical sense to me but….
No I have listen to beavers cry for too many decades and now want to remind them it’s their own fault
How many different names do you post under?
Would not let me use my Hay Jim. So sorry
Oregon has ONE (1) advantage: Phil Knight. If he graduated from any other university Oregon would be part of a Pac3. It's a big advantage.
You’re right! Had Bill Bowerman not coached at Oregon, pushed sports science, recruited Phil Knight (and others like Tinker Hatfield), mentored Phil Knight and then partnered with him. The entire state of Oregon would not have enjoyed many riches!
Think about the entire picture! Where did OS fail? They hired Dee Andros as Coach then removed him as Coach and made him AD! I would say OS has been mismanaged since hiring Dee!
T Boon Pickens has given more to OSU than Uncle Phil to Oregon and they suck. Money isn’t the end all.
It is for university presidents and athletic directors.
No schools are created equal. Oregon has Knight, USC has sunshine, a recruiting mother lode within 10 miles, and a massive TV market which brings revenue value. University of New Mexico has not much of anything.
Yes, Oregon was very lucky with Knight, but they’ve also made sure in hiring their presidents, AD’s, and head coaches that they got people who were all in on football, which allowed them to fully harness the Knight situation. Unlike, for example, Oklahoma State and T. Boone Pickens.
The Knights started academic donations in the late 80’s and have done more academically than Athletically. Latest academic donation for five new science buildings - 1 billion dollars. Nice complain dude
Crazy thing is, he's given money to Oregon St. The horror!!! lol
One last thought! If there wasn’t oil in Oklahoma where would Oklahoma and Ok state be? Ok Oklahoma cheated multiple times too!
Source?
They're not the flagship school for football. Not by a mile.
Okay so open bar, did you get something to drink? Do you have a standby cocktail order?
Possibly the best question of the evening!
Gin & Tonic, sponsored by the CW. Now there’s your joke 😉
John, not sure which end of the horse you are holding on to.
“They’ve been squeezed out of the ‘Power 4’ by no fault of their own.”
“I’ve implored Oregon State and Washington State to do a better job of marketing themselves and boosting the branding.”
Perhaps the second thought would have prevented the first?
Maybe, maybe not... That is speculative
What is NOT speculative is SC, UCLA, UO and UW caused this
The sequence: USC>UCLA>Colorado>Arizona....the B1G did not reconnect with UW until they heard about Arizona meeting with Yormark. As soon as UW/UO announced, Arizona took the Big12 deal within minutes because the Apple deal was deficient by comparison to the Big12.
There was a USA Today story this week about Big12 giving Colorado $2.5M as incentive to jump. Would be interesting to know if they were offering Arizona at same time and told the two the first to accept gets it?
Tex/OU left. USC/UCLA left. Clemson/FSU wants to leave. When you can't hold on to your biggest brand schools bad crap happens. Colorado and Arizona made preemptive moves, then UW/UO reacted - especially UW. UO in a Pac7 would not have been a happy landing spot.
Colorado barely was Pac12 and were easily replaced. So no your list is wrong. Plus AZ might have left on its own, but ASU was required to come along and they were firm in the pac12 boat.
UO and UW both agreed to the Apple deal with a tentative handshake, then hours later jumped and didn't tell anyone. That is backstabbing to the highest degree. Even the UW president admitted this.
What is with UO fans doing everything they can to act like it they don't have blood on their hands. SC makes me upset, but at least their fans own up to the dirty deed
The sequence is accurate according to the Tucson newspaper several weeks ago. Their "insider" info was the UA athletic dept. There were serious discussions between UA and Yormark and a "tentative deal" until UA saw the Apple number. Unfortunately, you can't keep much secret in athletics and the Big Ten went after UW when those discussions leaked. As the UW president "admitted" the Big Ten money vs the most optimistic Apple deal didn't make it a hard decision.
OSU/WSU will soon have company when the ACC implodes... After the top teams leave
Cal, Stan and the rest of the conference will be available.
Exactly!
Read your report, thanks. But as I do so I'm shaking my head. So many people who are clinging to hope upon hope, whistling past the graveyard if you will. A media event with two teams on stage? I'm afraid that about 4 games into the upcoming football season, the Cougars and Beavers, their coaching staffs, and fans are going to look around and realize that they are, in essence, playing for nothing this year. These two schools will have to ultimately just hold their noses and join another conference -- anything to get in some sort of playoff picture. They are both too small to operate as independents in football and get any sort of national attention. Time to stop wishing, hoping and pining about the past. Join another conference and get on with it.
This is like Biden trying to hold on to his Presidency.
I think that decision point comes at the end of football season. The ACC, Stanford and Cal and the Mt.West all have potential roles in the next step. Acting too soon is a bad idea, but Dec/Jan is probably the deadline.
It all starts with these two school’s location which was a land grant in a rural area. If these two schools were somehow in major media markets they would never have been left behind. This is no fault of their own, it is reality. On a smaller scale, it’s the same problem for the lower tier Mountain West teams. Where a college is located (unless, of course, you have a Nike in your pocket) will always be a drawback in the age of national TV money going where the audience is.
Schools like Penn State and Virginia Tech are land grant universities that aren't exactly located in major markets. But they are located in regions where they could recruit enough good players in their area to compete on a national level. OSU and WSU have never had that advantage. PSU/VT also had successful coaches that stuck around for a very long time, so that continuity enabled them to build their brands over the long haul.
The landscape has changed now. If you have a great program and a good NIL collective, you can get players from anywhere in the country to come to you....the flip side is coaches never stick around for very long these days.
VA Tech has had losing seasons 4 of last 6 years. Broke a 3 yr losing record streak last year by going 7-6 and that’s in the ACC. Their joyride ended in 2011, Frank Beamer not roaming those sidelines ever again, they are irrelevant now.
Penn State has won the B10 4 times in 33 years and never made the CFP. They are more myth than legend these days. Last national championship was 1986, nearly 40 years ago.
VT made a poor coaching hire after Beamer retired. That has nothing to do with them being a land grant school located hours away from a major media market.
Yes but both schools have rabid fan bases which sell out their stadiums win or lose. Penn State gets 100,000 fans per game to remote State College vs. the 25,000 WSU averages.
Attendance has nothing to do with TV. Many schools have seat at table for no reason other than fact they were already in said conference.
WSU has punched above their weight pretty often; OSU did it lasy year. They are better teams than many others in rural areas.
Eugene is hardly a major media market.
Take Phil Knight away and Ducks are in same boat as WSU/OSU. All you have to do is look at the athletic history prior to Phil’s money and there was no national brand or success.
Their following is a major media market.
But it is a much more major market than Corvallis or Pullman, and UofO also delivers Portland (which OSU does not), and UofO (differentiate from Eugene) remade themselves into a regional brand they could and did market/transform into a national brand.
Show me the media numbers and source you have that says Oregon State doesn’t deliver Portland market.
They remade themselves with uncle Phil’s $$$
In part, but this is revisionist history. Rich Brooks pushed for investment and other moves to "get into the club" (his words) of the programs that were regularly, not just occasionally, in the picture, and the transformation was already underway, but of course also encountered obstacles, and alumni Phil Knight, with both resources and connections, asked "What do you need? How can I help?" That provided an enduring boost to what Oregon had to work with.
Not true. Well documented Bill Moos got Phil Knight on board. Moos got AD job in 1995. An assist from Kenny Wheaton.
And Bill Moos is a Coug.
Another Pac 12 story from John Canzano. It doesn’t exist anymore, but that doesn’t mean we cant pretend. A cocktail party with old friends, a trip to Las Vegas. Down and out with Oregon and Washington State. Maybe you could catch a summer league game while you are there.
Pac12 is still alive, just because my your school left doesn't mean it ends
Oh boy.
Ok bitter Duckie
No jokes for the Pac-2, just a bit a sadness, in my opinion. Like when Spinal Tap tried to promote their “Black” album. I don’t know how this helps their cause for the future, other than a “rah-rah” session. Or, to raise a glass to what once was… like Gould may have suggested….
Well for me, there has never been a year with so many unknowns for the Beavs.
New coaches, new players, new conference, new facilities, new teams scheduled, new cfp format
Normally this would be death of a team, but Bray and Co have been getting recruits in the background, just winning a four star QB... They know something we don't and I am super curious what it is
In this era of one-and-done transfer opportunities, I think more kids should think about going to schools outside the "top 30" or so. It is no longer a 4-5 year decision.
Every time I read one of your articles about the PAC 12/2 John, it's like the band aide being ripped off a wound again. With re-alignment pending down the road, these two schools should be a lesson for all small market schools in conferences. Money rules, and not being proactive while Larry Scott destroyed the conference, has led to this current situation. I can't recall the number of fan-site posts I read and contributed to over the years, wanting Scott fired. And shocked over his mismanagement. So you make your bed and now you lie in it. I don't anticipate seeing a 'real' major conference rising from the ashes here. The historical ties small TV market teams have with major conference is coming to a close. Once TV deals became a reality, and radio-newspaper coverage waned, it was only a matter of time. You can't force a media company to pay big bucks for small market players.
TV networks are after the casual viewers, those being the ones who only watch about a half dozen games over the course of the season. They aren't loyal to any particular team, but they'll watch when two big brand name square off. So the answer to making more money is to lure those casual viewers with more matchups of the big names, and you accomplish that by consolidating them (a.k.a. conference realignment).
Of course in doing that you also destroy what made college football unique, and that risks losing the viewers who are actual fans of the sport who become turned off to the point they stop caring enough to watch. I guess the networks have run the numbers to the point where they know losing some viewers will happen and they will still have a net gain from realigning conferences, but it seems like a risky proposition to me considering what a great thing they already had.
Sounds like the commissioner did as well as she could. A nice event, in Vegas. I'm glad the league did it this way.
Except keeping the fans in the loop.. One of only two audiences she needed to focus on.
I am not impressed with Teresa yet... Milk toast answers, forgetting about the fans, floundering on marketing, not allowing PAC2 to be used..
But people around her love her... So either they see something I don't, or she's a good schmoozer
OSU is the flagship university of our state if nothing else, cause it is a Land, Air, Sea and Space grant university. Combined with extension offices and the ROTC programs, it is fulfilling its role that it was originally established for. The business of Football and to a certain extent other sports doesn't change any of that. With the new terms of how student athletes are compensated has changed the landscape--thus OSU and WSU have a new challenge.
It would be interesting to see if U of O wanted to take the lead by establishing an Ag or Engineering program.....
They’ll leave that to OSU. They concentrate on business, economics, law, education and do a great job as OSU does in their colleges.