"I fumbled a question in Monday’s Mailbag from a reader who asked if Oregon-Washington State and OSU-Washington would continue to schedule each other in football. I misread the question. I’m taking another stab here."
That's called integrity, John. It's the greatest tool a journalist can have, and you clearly have it. Not every journalist does. It's one reason among many why I will continue to subscribe to your publication and read your work.
I'd like to see baseball find a way into the Big 12 as well. Both sides need OSU's high level competition and rankings. Looks like WSU is attaching itself to the MWC for baseball, for now. Baseball needs the RPI numbers.
Now that OSU and WSU found a pretty good football TV deal. Proves there is a market for it. if it is only $9 or $10M per team, that's OK for now. I am all in OSU/WSU taking less cash now and working to the future.
Existing TV deals w/Fox and ESPN bring PLUS CW for the new added inventory of games that OSU & WSU can bring.
I am very sure ASU/UA/Utah folks would rather travel to Corvallis than go to Morgantown, Ames, etc in the dead of winter.
This actually makes a lot of sense to me. Add the Olympic sports to the B12 since OSU is very competitive in many non-rev sports (baseball, soccer, wrestling). The B12 is only half a continent away, so half the travel time and the kids still get top competition which will help recruiting. Basketball and Football can get sorted out as the money-scape changes the next 2-3 years.
I thought about them, too (I was on OSU Crew Team for a short while my freshman year). But I don't know how practical it is to move the shells all over the country. Crew seems to be a better sport that is local. But maybe I am wrong and they can put the shells on a plane and fly them around.
They already each travel up and down the West Coast and to the East Coast for events, but I see what ya mean. You know these teams, then. They love to compete. Their home regattas are at Dexter these days, which is a beautiful venue.
Another great article John! Love the fact that you're "spanning the globe" to keep all of us followers updated. Especially liked the UTAH LISTENING story and how you remain impressed with the Fano family . . . just as I remain impressed with you.
That's actually a pretty good question. They've also got social media accounts such as Instagram and Facebook. I wonder if those will be maintained at some capacity.
"There are dozens of examples of Olympic sports programs that compete in a variety of conferences as lone sports."
Very true.
Historically the Pac has had non-Pac schools competing in wrestling, including such schools as Boise State, CSU Bakersfield, and Cal Poly. Also Portland State, prior to 2010.
Lacrosse includes UC Davis and San Diego State in the Pac-12 standings.
Men's Soccer also includes San Diego State.
Hmmmmm...
San Diego State. Perhaps a future member of the rebuilt Pac-8/10/12?
The best chance for long term stability for OSU and WSU is to join the Big 12… in all sports. Not some repackaged Pac or Mountain West reconfiguration, nor the ACC. To remain as Powers, something with another big time conference, like the Big 12 (most logical) must become a thing. The schools should keep the dialogue going. This is not dogging on anyone, these are facts.
But the B12 first has to want WSU and OSU. That has been the problem. In revenue sports the schools don't want to share the pot and the networks don't want to increase the size of the pot. This not a problem in non-rev
OSU and WSU just cut a deal w/CW and Fox. Maybe its $9M or so for each. Whatever. Accept this amount for now (live off Pac 12 money) until the Big 12 TV deal is up. Bring the added inventory to Big 12 w/CW games and it can work.
Big 12 also has its own identity crisis. As it stands now, no casual fan is going to be watching Big 12 on the Pacific Coast. Its a whole untapped market right now. Fox/NBC/CBS have some Big 10 schools. Fox also has MW, that it shares w/CBS. ESPN has nothing on thw west coast for a late window right now (save for AZ schools for part of the year before the time changes) Unless, of course, Utah, BYU, and AZ schools do a 8:30 PM local time kick off. They hate this.
I don't know that ESPN really cares though. They didnt even participate in the OSU/WSU offer. ESPN also played games w/OSU ladies during the NCAA tournament. ESPN is not a friend.
I think the TV numbers next season for the Big12 will be interesting. What will be the highest rated games? BYU? Utah? Houston? There will be Prime Bump when Colorado is involved I suppose. But, which program will end the season with the highest viewership?
WSU has had some good viewership in recent years. But, OSU may still not be able to make a case if both OSU/WSU are being evaluated by the Big12?
Of the 50 games in 2023 that broke 4 million viewers, 45 were played on Saturdays. Networks consider 4 million threshold as premier. Here were 37 most popular viewing windows for Saturday regular season games:
CBS 3:30 p.m. — 10 games
FOX noon — 8 games
ABC 7:30 p.m. — 7 games
ABC 3:30 p.m. — 5 games
ESPN 7 p.m. — 4 games
NBC 7:30 p.m. — 3 games
Those are Eastern Time. So, the latest kickoff was 4:30 pm PT.
OSU had 2 games over 4 million. Washington at OSU, OSU at Oregon.
Chris ESPN also has the Cal and Stanford home games for the late night window. The two AZ schools are on Pacific Time for 10 of the 14 weeks of the season and ESPN will certainly put their November games and/or games played at BYU, CU, Utah in the late night window. Last year both BYU and CU had 3 home games start at 10:00 PM or later eastern time.
You are right that Cal probably won't draw unless they have a decent opponent . That is why I think the four corner schools, who complained mightily about the late starts in the Pac 12, plus BYU might find themselves with more late kickoffs in the Big 12 than they were hoping for.
UA and ASU had a Pac12 agreement TV clause that there would be no day games in September. Last year UA's first home day game was Nov. 18. In 2022, it was Oct. 29. ASU had a 3:30 on Oct. 7 in 2023. When UA/ASU didn't want "day games", I don't think they wanted to be locked into 7:30/8:00 either.
Got a question, John, but first a kudo. Big congrats for carrying forward the same excellent sports and life commentary that you produced back in the days we worked together at The Oregonian. You are quite ably helping to fill an enormous void in what's left of Pacific Northwest journalism. And now my question (with apologies if you've already addressed this and I just missed it): Now that the Pac 12 channel is going away, will Oregon Ducks fans like me need to pick up the Big Ten Network? And if so, will Xfinity, my provider, begin to offer it here? The folks at their main Eugene office couldn't answer that question. Doug Bates, Eugene.
Sounds like Barnes and OSU are doing lots of work keeping relevant with B12. What is WSU doing (if anything) on that front or has Chun’s defection to uw screwed WSU in that respect?
In the above paragraph about the PAC 12 baseball tournament in one sentence you say semi finals are on Thursday with finals on Friday (with who is calling play by play). Next sentence is Friday semis and Saturday finals (which is the correct scenerio). Just helping out John.
My heartfelt appreciation to the person…initials JC…who donated a subscription to this senior. I look forward to your column every day and the bonus of being able to read and participate in the remarks of your readers. Thank you so much, John Canzano! Oh, and I plan on paying it forward soon and getting a subscription to another senior…a dear friend who also loves sports!
I know this is a bit off topic, but NC State and Virginia just agreed to a non-conference home-and-home against one another in 2025-2026 despite being in the same conference.
This has to be crazy frustrating from a Beaver/Cougar perspective as having a home-and-home series with those P5 schools would have been pretty ideal from a schedule building standpoint.
John, as a retired senior recipient of one of the donated subscriptions I'd like to thank the donors. I appreciate John's straightforward insights into the sports world. Thanks again for your generosity.
"I fumbled a question in Monday’s Mailbag from a reader who asked if Oregon-Washington State and OSU-Washington would continue to schedule each other in football. I misread the question. I’m taking another stab here."
That's called integrity, John. It's the greatest tool a journalist can have, and you clearly have it. Not every journalist does. It's one reason among many why I will continue to subscribe to your publication and read your work.
Ditto!
I'd like to see baseball find a way into the Big 12 as well. Both sides need OSU's high level competition and rankings. Looks like WSU is attaching itself to the MWC for baseball, for now. Baseball needs the RPI numbers.
Now that OSU and WSU found a pretty good football TV deal. Proves there is a market for it. if it is only $9 or $10M per team, that's OK for now. I am all in OSU/WSU taking less cash now and working to the future.
Existing TV deals w/Fox and ESPN bring PLUS CW for the new added inventory of games that OSU & WSU can bring.
I am very sure ASU/UA/Utah folks would rather travel to Corvallis than go to Morgantown, Ames, etc in the dead of winter.
Start joining one sport at a time and eventually you'll be in the Big 12 without them realizing it.
You make a lot of sense, Chris.
I’m happy to see the OSU gymnastics to the BIG12 conversation is happening. That move would be very good for both OSU and the conference.
This actually makes a lot of sense to me. Add the Olympic sports to the B12 since OSU is very competitive in many non-rev sports (baseball, soccer, wrestling). The B12 is only half a continent away, so half the travel time and the kids still get top competition which will help recruiting. Basketball and Football can get sorted out as the money-scape changes the next 2-3 years.
Let’s not forget the Men’s and Women’s rowing teams that are regularly in the national top 20.
I thought about them, too (I was on OSU Crew Team for a short while my freshman year). But I don't know how practical it is to move the shells all over the country. Crew seems to be a better sport that is local. But maybe I am wrong and they can put the shells on a plane and fly them around.
They already each travel up and down the West Coast and to the East Coast for events, but I see what ya mean. You know these teams, then. They love to compete. Their home regattas are at Dexter these days, which is a beautiful venue.
Really?! We used to have the regattas on the Willamette. Why did that change? Maybe the bridge construction?
They have not raced on the Willamette for at least 30 years.
Another great article John! Love the fact that you're "spanning the globe" to keep all of us followers updated. Especially liked the UTAH LISTENING story and how you remain impressed with the Fano family . . . just as I remain impressed with you.
"Pac-12 Commission Teresa Gould tells me the Pac-12 Network signal will go dark on June 30."
John, could you ask them about the Pac-12 website? Will it be maintained?
Even though it is not a great site, it is handy for doing research on athletics and past results.
Perhaps someone at WSU or at OSU can keep the Pac-12 website alive during the next few years. I would hate for it to go stale.
https://pac-12.com
That's actually a pretty good question. They've also got social media accounts such as Instagram and Facebook. I wonder if those will be maintained at some capacity.
John Canzano, the curious would like to know.
I have asked as a morning mailbag question but hasn't been answered.
Sports not on CW should hopefully be on the app with Pac12 network producing
"There are dozens of examples of Olympic sports programs that compete in a variety of conferences as lone sports."
Very true.
Historically the Pac has had non-Pac schools competing in wrestling, including such schools as Boise State, CSU Bakersfield, and Cal Poly. Also Portland State, prior to 2010.
Lacrosse includes UC Davis and San Diego State in the Pac-12 standings.
Men's Soccer also includes San Diego State.
Hmmmmm...
San Diego State. Perhaps a future member of the rebuilt Pac-8/10/12?
Interesting to see SDSU included in a Pac-12 headline.
Eight Aztecs Named to Pac-12 Honor Roll
https://goaztecs.com/news/2024/1/29/mens-soccer-eight-aztecs-named-to-pac-12-honor-roll.aspx
The best chance for long term stability for OSU and WSU is to join the Big 12… in all sports. Not some repackaged Pac or Mountain West reconfiguration, nor the ACC. To remain as Powers, something with another big time conference, like the Big 12 (most logical) must become a thing. The schools should keep the dialogue going. This is not dogging on anyone, these are facts.
But the B12 first has to want WSU and OSU. That has been the problem. In revenue sports the schools don't want to share the pot and the networks don't want to increase the size of the pot. This not a problem in non-rev
OSU and WSU just cut a deal w/CW and Fox. Maybe its $9M or so for each. Whatever. Accept this amount for now (live off Pac 12 money) until the Big 12 TV deal is up. Bring the added inventory to Big 12 w/CW games and it can work.
Big 12 also has its own identity crisis. As it stands now, no casual fan is going to be watching Big 12 on the Pacific Coast. Its a whole untapped market right now. Fox/NBC/CBS have some Big 10 schools. Fox also has MW, that it shares w/CBS. ESPN has nothing on thw west coast for a late window right now (save for AZ schools for part of the year before the time changes) Unless, of course, Utah, BYU, and AZ schools do a 8:30 PM local time kick off. They hate this.
I don't know that ESPN really cares though. They didnt even participate in the OSU/WSU offer. ESPN also played games w/OSU ladies during the NCAA tournament. ESPN is not a friend.
I think the TV numbers next season for the Big12 will be interesting. What will be the highest rated games? BYU? Utah? Houston? There will be Prime Bump when Colorado is involved I suppose. But, which program will end the season with the highest viewership?
WSU has had some good viewership in recent years. But, OSU may still not be able to make a case if both OSU/WSU are being evaluated by the Big12?
Both OSU and WSU have similar numbers.
Of the 50 games in 2023 that broke 4 million viewers, 45 were played on Saturdays. Networks consider 4 million threshold as premier. Here were 37 most popular viewing windows for Saturday regular season games:
CBS 3:30 p.m. — 10 games
FOX noon — 8 games
ABC 7:30 p.m. — 7 games
ABC 3:30 p.m. — 5 games
ESPN 7 p.m. — 4 games
NBC 7:30 p.m. — 3 games
Those are Eastern Time. So, the latest kickoff was 4:30 pm PT.
OSU had 2 games over 4 million. Washington at OSU, OSU at Oregon.
WSU had 1: WSU at Washington
Chris ESPN also has the Cal and Stanford home games for the late night window. The two AZ schools are on Pacific Time for 10 of the 14 weeks of the season and ESPN will certainly put their November games and/or games played at BYU, CU, Utah in the late night window. Last year both BYU and CU had 3 home games start at 10:00 PM or later eastern time.
I agree. Missed that.
That's maybe 1 game a week from those 2 teams from home.
I don't think Cal will hold a national audience week after week
You are right that Cal probably won't draw unless they have a decent opponent . That is why I think the four corner schools, who complained mightily about the late starts in the Pac 12, plus BYU might find themselves with more late kickoffs in the Big 12 than they were hoping for.
BYU has already complained about late kickoffs. It takes them into Sunday local time and that's kind of an issue for them.
UA and ASU had a Pac12 agreement TV clause that there would be no day games in September. Last year UA's first home day game was Nov. 18. In 2022, it was Oct. 29. ASU had a 3:30 on Oct. 7 in 2023. When UA/ASU didn't want "day games", I don't think they wanted to be locked into 7:30/8:00 either.
Got a question, John, but first a kudo. Big congrats for carrying forward the same excellent sports and life commentary that you produced back in the days we worked together at The Oregonian. You are quite ably helping to fill an enormous void in what's left of Pacific Northwest journalism. And now my question (with apologies if you've already addressed this and I just missed it): Now that the Pac 12 channel is going away, will Oregon Ducks fans like me need to pick up the Big Ten Network? And if so, will Xfinity, my provider, begin to offer it here? The folks at their main Eugene office couldn't answer that question. Doug Bates, Eugene.
And they scattered like flies off the dung to re unite on some other farm somewhere the wind took them and nobody cared…
Sounds like Barnes and OSU are doing lots of work keeping relevant with B12. What is WSU doing (if anything) on that front or has Chun’s defection to uw screwed WSU in that respect?
I wouldn't do anything with the Big 12 until they replace their commissioner. He is a very bad person.
In the above paragraph about the PAC 12 baseball tournament in one sentence you say semi finals are on Thursday with finals on Friday (with who is calling play by play). Next sentence is Friday semis and Saturday finals (which is the correct scenerio). Just helping out John.
My heartfelt appreciation to the person…initials JC…who donated a subscription to this senior. I look forward to your column every day and the bonus of being able to read and participate in the remarks of your readers. Thank you so much, John Canzano! Oh, and I plan on paying it forward soon and getting a subscription to another senior…a dear friend who also loves sports!
I know this is a bit off topic, but NC State and Virginia just agreed to a non-conference home-and-home against one another in 2025-2026 despite being in the same conference.
This has to be crazy frustrating from a Beaver/Cougar perspective as having a home-and-home series with those P5 schools would have been pretty ideal from a schedule building standpoint.
Feels like a pretty big missed opportunity.
John, as a retired senior recipient of one of the donated subscriptions I'd like to thank the donors. I appreciate John's straightforward insights into the sports world. Thanks again for your generosity.