When Canzano lays out the basic facts, it becomes apparent to me that the MWC and Gloria Nevarez have repeatedly acted in bad faith over the last two years. They come off as desperate, which they undoubtedly are. And I think there’s a very real chance this ends with Air Force and UNLV bailing on the MWC, leaving the conference on life support.
As a die hard fan of college football, I have learned more about litigation and antitrust law over the past few years than I ever imagined possible. Wanna be an attorney? Subscribing to JohnCanzano.com is a hell of a lot cheaper than law school.
Gloria Nevarez, who looked so smart and cool right after the PAC12 blow up, by helping Oregon State and Washington State out with scheduling, now looks desperate and over-extended. She really overplayed her hand with the exorbitant fees to play MWC schools in 2025. That was the first crack in her veneer. Then she turned down offers to merge the two conferences in some fashion, but under the PAC12. It would have required her to drop the weakest MWC programs and retain the 5 that eventually jumped, plus UNLV which was always welcome to the PAC12. Her misplaced loyalty is now taking her down. It is kind of sad. But Teresa Gould has completely outplayed Nevarez, albeit with a stronger hand.
I don't understand any of this. I did much better at yesterday's grammar discussion. But good to see we all have our individual strengths to add to any dialogue.
Not at all, but it's very odd that people keep repeating the same nonsense over and over. The fact is UNLV is not only one of the worst MWC programs, but one of the worst programs in the country. It's very odd that people talk about them like they are a prize. Why try and add a perineal bottom feeder?
I hope you are right Chuck. At the bottom of my heart, I am reluctantly entertaining a fear, she might pull it out in her favor of our (PAC -12) expense. She is not incompetent and she is desperate
I, like most, initially thought Navarez was a "knight in shining armor" for lending a hand and helping us out. However I now see how petty she can be, first off charging $14 mil for scheduling games (Overcharging out the literal WAZZU) then demanding $30 mil for 2025 games (Pure Extortion), withholding payouts to the exiting members, etc. I think karma is coming home to roost Gloria, Do Unto Others. So to speak...
Given how much money is on the line for the MWC, and how crucial that money might be for their survival, they obviously had little incentive to negotiate before the motion to dismiss is ruled on. Once that ruling comes down, in which I'd highly expect the motion to be denied, I bet they take on a different tone. That becomes even more likely if the departing schools get an injunction against the MWC for both withholding revenue distributions and collecting the exit fees (at best that money might go into some sort of escrow).
I still put the odds of this going to trial at <10%.
Conferences routinely withhold distributions from departing members. After all, it’s the only leverage they have to try and ensure they receive their exit fees. The departing schools will be made whole once the exit fees are settled or imposed in court
OSU and WSU themselves blocked a distribution to the departing 10 schools in December of 2023, even though in that case the 10 owed $0 exit fees per the bylaws at the time.
$18m feels unreasonably high, but $10m also feels unreasonably low. Maybe $15m each and call it good
Of course this is intertwined with the poaching case
Oh, and Oregon is paying Utah State $1.2m for a single game, so not sure $14m for 12 is that crazy, especially considering the ask was for 12 games and not just one, and in very short notice. That increased the complexities and required the MWC to cancel a slew of conference games. That price has always seemed reasonable in the context of the ask. The $30m ask for 2025 was of course absurd
In a vacuum of comparing it to normal pay games, absolutely
But it’s a bad comparison. It was an extremely unique circumstance. Absent that agreement the two schools would have been lucky to play 6 games each last season. The value of that difference is immense both financially and otherwise
I wouldn’t use the word preying. The pac-12 was asking for something extraordinary that had no comparison in CFB history
$14m to play a full schedule seems pretty reasonable if the alternative is having 3 homes games instead of 6 or 7
The ask for $30m for year was predatory. The original deal wasn’t
Given what the Pac-12 did to repay the favor I’m guessing the MWC would happily decline the deal in retrospect. And the big loser in that alternative history would have been OSU and WSU
I mean the $1.2 million was for (what is in effect) one buy game.
A more apples to apples comparison would be OSU/WSU paid $14 million for 6 home games, which per game more than any team paid in the country for a single home game in the country. Which I would say is "crazy". And that's also ignoring that teams normally get paid to play away games.
It’s also ignoring that this was an extremely unique circumstance that has no other comparison
It’s impossible to know what the going rate was, because there is no similar circumstance point to
The mountain west didn’t need the games they all had full schedules. They inconvenience themselves and canceled a half dozen conference games to accommodate the Pac 12 and do Oregon State and Washington State a favor.
All of that is worth some sort of premium and both parties agreed that $14 million was the price where it became worthwhile.
I don't agree with you, but let's say the MWC was in the right for offering those six home games at $14 million. How do you feel about the MWC jacking that up to $30 million for the following year?
"Reasonable" is in the eye of the beholder, in the absence of reference to some substantial truly comparative instances. In this case, in my opinion and given that mediation failed, what's reasonable or even allowed legally will be decided in front of a judge.
The $1.2M to Utah State was originally $875K to play in Eugene. But, part of that agreement was a home-and-home for a total of 3 games. Since the game at Logan, Utah was canceled, depriving Utah St of an attractive home game, Oregon had to "pay up" on the single game remaining to cancel. The extra cost of canceling that home-and-home is something to remember if those two dates are filled by games with Oregon State.
Likewise, when the Oregon game at Boise State in 2025 was cancelled so the Ducks could play Oregon State in 2024 and 2025, Oregon paid Boise State a huge chunk to allow those UO-OSU games to happen.
Whatever...taking advantage of OSU/WSU situation; trying to split WSU and OSU (and it grossly backfired); her 5 best teams CHOSE to go with PAC-2 after they leaked Nevarez's plan to try and split a wedge between OSU/WSU...She's a SNAKE!
Just business😁doesn't seem to apply when it's B1G, B12, and ACC business where traitors, liars, and varlots justly deserve to be given the axe, the axe, the axe, the axe!
Something about glass houses and rocks comes to mind.
In hindsight, a full mountain west with the additions of Oregon State, Washington State and Gonzaga along with St. Mary’s for basketball probably would have been the best of all possible worlds if it also included an ACC style revenue distribution model that rewarded substantially more money to the teams that performed at the top and those two sports as well as who appeared on television the most
I think the conference leadership wasn’t forward thinking enough in this regard.
No, aside from money, the next most important thing for the departing schools was limiting their games to only OSU, WSU, and themselves to improve visibility and strength of schedule. These are the schools that regularly got the best TV slots. They were also the most competitive in football, collectively owning all of the Mountain West football titles among current members, save one (SJSU in 2020). Strength of schedule and visibility are vital when trying to win the beauty pageant for the one G5 playoff spot.
And no, I’m not saying this because I want Oregon or any other former Pac 12 school to get their prorated share of whatever is remaining in the Pac 12 conference. I don’t care about that. I’ve won since moved on.
I’m assuming the Pac 12 would’ve found a way to keep that money and just invite the entire mountain west to join them and keep the Pac 12 brand and all the assets and I have no problem with that.
I think that additional inventory with an ACC style revenue share schemewould have kept everyone at the top at least hole with the current status and maybe even better off financially, and the increased inventory of games would have solved a lot of the scheduling questions that are still looming not just in football, but also in basketball baseball and other sports
People blaming Gloria Nevarez and the Mountain West are missing some basic points. The Pac-12 and Mountain West signed an agreement with poaching fees spelled out clearly. The departing schools also had their exit fees spelled out clearly, and the three schools suing the MW tried to enforce these same fees against San Diego State two years ago when they were trying to go to the old Pac 12. You don't have to like it but I haven't seen anyone point out where Nevarez has done anything counter to the contacts signed by the Pac-12 schools.
This is a subscriber base full of primarily Oregon State and Washington State fans so expecting this issue to be discussed without substantial bias is probably not likely
When Canzano lays out the basic facts, it becomes apparent to me that the MWC and Gloria Nevarez have repeatedly acted in bad faith over the last two years. They come off as desperate, which they undoubtedly are. And I think there’s a very real chance this ends with Air Force and UNLV bailing on the MWC, leaving the conference on life support.
As a die hard fan of college football, I have learned more about litigation and antitrust law over the past few years than I ever imagined possible. Wanna be an attorney? Subscribing to JohnCanzano.com is a hell of a lot cheaper than law school.
Thank you for being here.
Outhouse lawyers are a dime a dozen.
I’m hooked on TikTok plumbing for some unknown reason also.
Gloria Nevarez, who looked so smart and cool right after the PAC12 blow up, by helping Oregon State and Washington State out with scheduling, now looks desperate and over-extended. She really overplayed her hand with the exorbitant fees to play MWC schools in 2025. That was the first crack in her veneer. Then she turned down offers to merge the two conferences in some fashion, but under the PAC12. It would have required her to drop the weakest MWC programs and retain the 5 that eventually jumped, plus UNLV which was always welcome to the PAC12. Her misplaced loyalty is now taking her down. It is kind of sad. But Teresa Gould has completely outplayed Nevarez, albeit with a stronger hand.
The Pac-2 had Ace-King and flopped an Ace (Boise State). Gloria whiffed on the turn. The MW may be drawing dead.
The Pac-2 may have had AK suited, but it was at a 1:2 table.
I don't understand any of this. I did much better at yesterday's grammar discussion. But good to see we all have our individual strengths to add to any dialogue.
Hi Jean
Beautiful
UNLV is one of the weakest MWC programs. Make no mistake about it.
lol, still on that train, huh?
It's just true and such an easy thing to confirm.
It seems oddly personal
Not at all, but it's very odd that people keep repeating the same nonsense over and over. The fact is UNLV is not only one of the worst MWC programs, but one of the worst programs in the country. It's very odd that people talk about them like they are a prize. Why try and add a perineal bottom feeder?
I hope you are right Chuck. At the bottom of my heart, I am reluctantly entertaining a fear, she might pull it out in her favor of our (PAC -12) expense. She is not incompetent and she is desperate
I, like most, initially thought Navarez was a "knight in shining armor" for lending a hand and helping us out. However I now see how petty she can be, first off charging $14 mil for scheduling games (Overcharging out the literal WAZZU) then demanding $30 mil for 2025 games (Pure Extortion), withholding payouts to the exiting members, etc. I think karma is coming home to roost Gloria, Do Unto Others. So to speak...
This reminds me of a negotiation i was a part of. "A Win-Win doesn't mean you win twice". MW needs to get realistic.
Gloria Nevarez made it personal. You never make it personal. The one who takes it personal always ends up pounding dirt and looking bad.
Given how much money is on the line for the MWC, and how crucial that money might be for their survival, they obviously had little incentive to negotiate before the motion to dismiss is ruled on. Once that ruling comes down, in which I'd highly expect the motion to be denied, I bet they take on a different tone. That becomes even more likely if the departing schools get an injunction against the MWC for both withholding revenue distributions and collecting the exit fees (at best that money might go into some sort of escrow).
I still put the odds of this going to trial at <10%.
Conferences routinely withhold distributions from departing members. After all, it’s the only leverage they have to try and ensure they receive their exit fees. The departing schools will be made whole once the exit fees are settled or imposed in court
OSU and WSU themselves blocked a distribution to the departing 10 schools in December of 2023, even though in that case the 10 owed $0 exit fees per the bylaws at the time.
$18m feels unreasonably high, but $10m also feels unreasonably low. Maybe $15m each and call it good
Of course this is intertwined with the poaching case
Oh, and Oregon is paying Utah State $1.2m for a single game, so not sure $14m for 12 is that crazy, especially considering the ask was for 12 games and not just one, and in very short notice. That increased the complexities and required the MWC to cancel a slew of conference games. That price has always seemed reasonable in the context of the ask. The $30m ask for 2025 was of course absurd
The PAC-12 didn’t pay for 14 home games. Half were on the road. It was a massive overpay
For home games the going rate would be somewhere near $500,000 per game so $14 mil for playing half the games on MWC turf was a hostage negotiation.
In a vacuum of comparing it to normal pay games, absolutely
But it’s a bad comparison. It was an extremely unique circumstance. Absent that agreement the two schools would have been lucky to play 6 games each last season. The value of that difference is immense both financially and otherwise
Thus proving the point that the MW was preying upon the distressed circumstances of the PAC12
I wouldn’t use the word preying. The pac-12 was asking for something extraordinary that had no comparison in CFB history
$14m to play a full schedule seems pretty reasonable if the alternative is having 3 homes games instead of 6 or 7
The ask for $30m for year was predatory. The original deal wasn’t
Given what the Pac-12 did to repay the favor I’m guessing the MWC would happily decline the deal in retrospect. And the big loser in that alternative history would have been OSU and WSU
You wouldn't use the word preying, but I just did.
It was a unique circumstance. So extortion is allowed when circumstances are unique?
Oregon State and Washington State could have declined the offer
I mean the $1.2 million was for (what is in effect) one buy game.
A more apples to apples comparison would be OSU/WSU paid $14 million for 6 home games, which per game more than any team paid in the country for a single home game in the country. Which I would say is "crazy". And that's also ignoring that teams normally get paid to play away games.
It’s also ignoring that this was an extremely unique circumstance that has no other comparison
It’s impossible to know what the going rate was, because there is no similar circumstance point to
The mountain west didn’t need the games they all had full schedules. They inconvenience themselves and canceled a half dozen conference games to accommodate the Pac 12 and do Oregon State and Washington State a favor.
All of that is worth some sort of premium and both parties agreed that $14 million was the price where it became worthwhile.
I don't agree with you, but let's say the MWC was in the right for offering those six home games at $14 million. How do you feel about the MWC jacking that up to $30 million for the following year?
The price for year one was $14M cash, agreement on the poaching fees and negotiations towards a merger.
The price for year two was $28M, cash since the MWC already had the Poaching Fee agreement and a merger clearly wasn't happening.
If the PAC-2 didn't like the MWC $28M offer, all they had to do was say "no." Which they did.
In my original comment in this thread I said it was absurd. In a follow up comment I said it was predatory
Now I’ll add it was egregious
"Reasonable" is in the eye of the beholder, in the absence of reference to some substantial truly comparative instances. In this case, in my opinion and given that mediation failed, what's reasonable or even allowed legally will be decided in front of a judge.
Oregon just paid Utah State over a million to cancel the game.
The $1.2M to Utah State was originally $875K to play in Eugene. But, part of that agreement was a home-and-home for a total of 3 games. Since the game at Logan, Utah was canceled, depriving Utah St of an attractive home game, Oregon had to "pay up" on the single game remaining to cancel. The extra cost of canceling that home-and-home is something to remember if those two dates are filled by games with Oregon State.
Likewise, when the Oregon game at Boise State in 2025 was cancelled so the Ducks could play Oregon State in 2024 and 2025, Oregon paid Boise State a huge chunk to allow those UO-OSU games to happen.
Good grief…
Nevarez is the biggest snake in sports
She's not a snake, she's just out of a job unless she can land the plane on lawsuit money and the new TV deal.
Whatever...taking advantage of OSU/WSU situation; trying to split WSU and OSU (and it grossly backfired); her 5 best teams CHOSE to go with PAC-2 after they leaked Nevarez's plan to try and split a wedge between OSU/WSU...She's a SNAKE!
She could be an assistant commissioner in the PAC.
The MWC is obviously not negotiating in good faith.
Just business😁doesn't seem to apply when it's B1G, B12, and ACC business where traitors, liars, and varlots justly deserve to be given the axe, the axe, the axe, the axe!
Something about glass houses and rocks comes to mind.
In hindsight, a full mountain west with the additions of Oregon State, Washington State and Gonzaga along with St. Mary’s for basketball probably would have been the best of all possible worlds if it also included an ACC style revenue distribution model that rewarded substantially more money to the teams that performed at the top and those two sports as well as who appeared on television the most
I think the conference leadership wasn’t forward thinking enough in this regard.
No, aside from money, the next most important thing for the departing schools was limiting their games to only OSU, WSU, and themselves to improve visibility and strength of schedule. These are the schools that regularly got the best TV slots. They were also the most competitive in football, collectively owning all of the Mountain West football titles among current members, save one (SJSU in 2020). Strength of schedule and visibility are vital when trying to win the beauty pageant for the one G5 playoff spot.
"Strength of schedule and visibility are vital when trying to win the beauty pageant for the one G5 playoff spot."
Not just Playoff, but NCAA Tournament as well. Even Gonzaga had that as motivation. But certainly the 5 Mt. West teams did.
I recall visibility was a big factor for UW in their logic to join the Big Ten and reject the Apple deal.
Good points
And no, I’m not saying this because I want Oregon or any other former Pac 12 school to get their prorated share of whatever is remaining in the Pac 12 conference. I don’t care about that. I’ve won since moved on.
I’m assuming the Pac 12 would’ve found a way to keep that money and just invite the entire mountain west to join them and keep the Pac 12 brand and all the assets and I have no problem with that.
I think that additional inventory with an ACC style revenue share schemewould have kept everyone at the top at least hole with the current status and maybe even better off financially, and the increased inventory of games would have solved a lot of the scheduling questions that are still looming not just in football, but also in basketball baseball and other sports
People blaming Gloria Nevarez and the Mountain West are missing some basic points. The Pac-12 and Mountain West signed an agreement with poaching fees spelled out clearly. The departing schools also had their exit fees spelled out clearly, and the three schools suing the MW tried to enforce these same fees against San Diego State two years ago when they were trying to go to the old Pac 12. You don't have to like it but I haven't seen anyone point out where Nevarez has done anything counter to the contacts signed by the Pac-12 schools.
You have a fundamental misunderstanding of how the law works. Just because something was included in an agreement doesn't make it legal.
No I don't, and I have not read the schools' argument of how an agreement they supported and tried to use is illegal.
This is a subscriber base full of primarily Oregon State and Washington State fans so expecting this issue to be discussed without substantial bias is probably not likely
Bingo!
Poaching penalties are dubious at best from a legal POV. And the antitrust lawyers will have a field day with the MWC.
What's not to like about colleges sports now days?
Lawyers lawyers and more lawyers. Wow. Thanks for the blow by blow description of what happened.