I would pay to go to NHL games, even if it involved going down into Gaza...er... the Lloyd District/Moda Center/whatever it's called nowadays. Baseball? Don't care where it is situated, I'm not coughing up a penny. And putting it in the Washington Square area is sheer lunacy. 217 has been under construction since the Mayflower landed in Astoria. What makes anyone think they'll complete it any time soon?
Are you going buy season tickets? If so, you'll be the first of literally dozens of baseball "fans" I've asked the same question. Go ahead and build it, but I don't want to see $1 of public funds (especially my property taxes) to underwrite this boondoggle.
Fine. T hen be equally insistent the county, city and state don't slap any "entertainment" tax on each ticket. They should not benefit from a private project.
Agree Shazbot....coming from someone who live near the area, the RedTail location is terrible!! The HWY 217 traffic has and never will be good, even with the current changes...now they think they can put a ballpark in that area, the ingress/egress will be terrible!!! I can't imagine what the traffic on 217 would be and the added congestion to local streets people getting off or not using 217 will be a nightmare. I like baseball, but this location is a terrible idea and I would oppose it completely.
I've been a baseball fanatic for seven decades. I've lived in the Portland area for five decades. This will ultimately fail because PORTLAND IS NOT A BASEBALL TOWN. All this will do is ruin a very good municipal golf course and bring another at best so so sports franchise to the area. Remember when PDX tore up the best minor league ball park in the USA to please the soccer gods? I'll keep my Cardinals baseball hat and my Stan the Man, Bullet Bob, and The Wizard of Oz jerseys.
that park sucked for baseball. It never felt like baseball playing there. Loved it for football and it is great for Soccer and it should stay that way. My only complaint is they do not let the Portland State Vikings play football there. Bad publicity move there. I don't attend the soccer games because of it.
So why do you think the baseball park sucked? The revamped park scored high marks and was selected to host the AAA All Star game. Like you, once PDX decided that only soccer would be played there, I started going to Volcanoes games in Keiser. That's about as minimalistic as a park can get.
How are you defining "baseball town"? It terms of fan support, geography, climate and market, it most definitely is. In terms of governmental competence and Fortune 500 strength, it absolutely is not. Portland municipal government may be the single most dysfunctional political body in the country. Oregon has 2 Fortune 500 companies while Utah.....UTAH!! has five.
Perhaps Salt Lake City didn't allow "mostly peaceful protesters" to distory the city's reputation while damaging large businesses and bankrupting a lot of small businesses.
I like baseball. I don't like MLB in Portland. If you are not the LA Dodgers, New York Yankees or Boston Red Sox say hello to a below average team. MLB doesn't work where in my opinion, the fan base are interested more in doing things outside rather than watching others do things outside particularly when the weather is nice. By eliminating Red Tail, the golfers in the community will lose another course and be forced to go further and pay more $'s. That area around Washington Square and 217 will be a complete clown show as far as traffic is concerned. I live in Washington County - I'm not supportive if asked. City of Portland should figure out how to clean up the city, but that is for another story on another day.
Most baseball fans are not bandwagon fans. It's not like football. I'm from San Diego and a Padres fan since early 80s. Not one Padres fan would root for the Dodgers... In baseball locality is everything
I can’t think of a worse location for a stadium. Difficult location to get to combined with already horrible traffic on 217 and the adjacent side streets
My first thought as well. 217 already has some of the worst traffic in the Portland area, this would be an unbelievable nightmare for those of us who have to commute on it. I'd expect significant community pushback against any plans to build there.
"the purchase amounts to a $50 million infusion for a cash-strapped city." This made me chuckle. Portland has plenty of cash it just does not want to allocate if for greater needs. Greater needs like maintenance of existing little things like roads and park facilities.
Why is this a good location John? 217 is already a mess and mass transit is minimal in this area plus it is surrounded on 3 sides by residential areas. There has got to be better options. I think the price is clouding everyone’s judgement.
This has to be the stupidest of the "options" that have been floated for a ballpark - no mass transit, (rail), to the site, already jammed traffic on 217, tons of traffic on mainly residential arterials in the area. Plus, which city would have to deal with all the issues after it's built - Beaverton? Tigard? I'm willing to bet that wasn't on their bingo cards recently.
The public funding for these things has to stop - if a billionaire, (or a bunch of alleged millionaires), want a team, build it yourself, (I know it'll never happen because "we need to be a big league city").
I've always wondered why a community gives hundreds of millions to a billionaire owner who now has a plaything (NFL, MLB, NHL, NBA team) that's making more money for them outside of their original business at the cost of local schools, roads, sewers, etc.
And no, they don't generate the dollars to pay everyone back..
A word of warning. The Miami Marlins park is likewise located in a place with no reasonable mass transit and restricted car access. If the crowd is more than 8-10 thousand you must plan an extra 1 hr in bound and at least that outbound. I’m familiar with the 217 mess. I’m shocked anyone but dreamers are giving this site serious consideration without a 2 line Max stop at the front door.
Why on God's green earth is Ted Wheeler still the mayor of Portland? The guy cuddles with Anarchists. Any planning that includes him will in all likelihood end up in failure due ignoring infrastructure shortcomings. Just watch in the next few years what will happen in Seattle when the Kraken season ticket base dries up. Getting in and out of the Seattle Center is brutal and the only reason Oak Tree was given the go ahead is they came up with a plan to salvage a dilapidated chunk of real estate in town with horrible transportation access. They ignored a much larger potential fan base by hard stopping the project near the intersection of I-5 and I-90 next to Lumen and T-Mobile Park. Trusting liberal leaders to make sound business decisions always fail as they get bogged down in menusha. Signed, Former Kraken Season Ticket Holder Living in Central Washington.
I live in Colorado and I've been asking your opening sentence of your comment for the past three or four years. I don't know if Portland residents realize this, but their city is basically an ongoing joke across the country. Voters need to wise up. I remember going to wonderful Rose parades in the downtown area, strolling around at night during the summer. I wonder how much of that's being done these days. Portland is a shadow of what it once was. Major league baseball is going to come to Portland with that kind of reputation? Seriously doubt it.
I agree John. I grew up there, still visit family there on occasion but would never consider moving back. Once safe neighborhoods are now high crime hell holes (Gaza, lol). And don't even get started about teams staying downtown which is literally a toilet in some areas.
I live in the Denver area ... and it's even more of a dump than Portland. BTW, as a former long-time resident of Portland I sincerely believe there are no cheap shots being leveled at the Rose City. They all seem deserved. You get what you deserve when you put people into office.
I've spent time in Denver recently and have family there. I know you have problems as every major city in America does. You say the cheap shots at Portland all seem deserved. You are out of touch. PDX is making many positive changes to deal with our challenges. We don't need people who believe everything they read in the national newspapers piling on. Positive change comes when positive people take action... we are. Kudos to Craig Cheek and his team for being part of that action.
Let me correct you. I said: "There are no cheap shots being leveled at the Rose City." And I'll add that -- to me -- they all seem deserved because of how the city looks to the rest of the country. Perception is important and, unfortunately, that's all people across the country have to go on. As a former resident, I'll look forward with anticipation to seeing the positive changes you say are coming.
Well, not sure how you are correcting me when you say, "No cheap shots... but they all seem deserved". Perception is important for sure, but warmed up stories from two years ago clouds the perception - no?. Maybe get on a jet and visit to see with your own eyes. You'll travel through the #1 rated airport in the USA and can go to a sold out Timbers or Thorns football match. While you are here you can visit the immaculate University of Portland campus and stroll the Alberta District or the Pearl neighborhood and then take in world class symphony at the Arlene Schnitzer Hall.
Portland can’t even keep a Single A club around. Hillsboro needs a new stadium as well. Better off pursuing NFL to guarantee sellouts. I’ll believe it when I see it. I’m already in my 50s. Doubtful it’ll be in my lifetime, that another pro franchise lands in Portland, with all the red tape.
Interesting idea. What do you think the Portland Metro area's out of pocket costs would be to build that NFL stadium (or the MLB stadium)? Remember, the NFL uses taxpayers money like there's no tomorrow if they can get away with it.
I just can’t see a franchise building even a 40,000 seat baseball stadium that sits half empty, while it builds a fan base. Better hope for a retractable roof and a street sweeper outside the stadium. NFL would bring guaranteed money to the area that baseball would struggle mightily with.
So, should taxpayers foot the bill for an NFL stadium being built for a billionaire owners toy? The average cost of a franchise is $3 Billion. Have you paid attention to the number of mediocre teams in the NFL?
I never once mentioned taxpayers. If taxpayer money would be spent, a lousy idea would be for baseball. Have you paid attention to NFL ratings as opposed to MLB?
I dont know that I could think of a worse spot if I was in danger of losing a toe. There is no max stop, the intersection at Hall and Scholls is already a mess and for peak traffic think of what the area is like at christmas for all those doing their shopping. Thats not even 20% of the traffic. Tell me how you get 30,000 people in and out of that area in a manageable way. Can we just let Portland be a one and a half major league sport town and support the teams we have and the semi pro college teams? If you love baseball so much go watch UP. They have a D1 team and a nice little park. Go down to Eugene or Covallis and watch even higher level D1 baseball. This is not happening and MLB is not expanding anytime soon. Tampa is going to stay in Florida and the A's are not coming here. Also the Mariners will not be in favor of any team moving to Portland and will vote against it.
There was talk of putting an In-N-Out near Beaverton-Hillsdale Hwy. & 217 and the neighbors had a conniption fit. Hmmm. I wonder how a 40,000-seat stadium will go over?
The RedTail site is a horrible choice for myriad reasons: Poor access to public transit and no access to light rail. Little or no existing hotel or hospitality infrastructure. A surrounding neighborhood that makes the word "blah" seem exciting. On a typical, non-event day, you're looking at a solid 45-minute to one-hour drive from anywhere east of the river. Any way you look at it, the RedTail site is a huge cop-out.
I am a regular at RedTail. It is heavily played and the only public course on the west side. But let's be honest here—Portland city leadership has shown its distain for golf because it's perceived as a game for rich, white people. Not "inclusive" enough. Joann Hardesty made this clear when she proposed selling off one of the public courses near the airport and turning it into a homeless camp. Golf doesn't fit City Hall's vision for whatever they want their lawless, drug-addled shithole to become.
With that amount of land the development will likely include hotels, restaurants, light rail line, apartments, etc. it won’t just be a baseball field in the middle of a huge piece of land.
Washington Square Mall has traffic jams during peak times. I can’t imagine they would be in favor. There’s already hotels, apartments and restaurants close by. Would the present housing be demolished?
Do not count me among the naysayers who maintain Portland is not a 'baseball town'. Seattle was no more a baseball town than Portland when it landed the Mariners - and the Mariners would be playing elsewhere if not for some strong-arming by politicians to arrange public funding for a new ballpark the voters didn't want approved. The Mavericks and Beavers, when Triple-A franchises, did pretty well at old Civic Stadium.
If memory serves: Portland is the largest market with only one 'major league' franchise; it is the largest market without an MLB team - and is larger than several markets which do have teams. Build a stadium with a retractable roof, with an owner or ownership group who has the resources and the will to field a competitive team and MLB will succeed in PDX.
Salt Lake is an interesting situation. If ever a market out-punched its weight, it's SLC. Hell, they hosted an Olympics; now they are (evidently) first in line for the NHL and their overtures to MLB make me ill - because in my view it should be Portland.
Finally: Might be time for MLB to PDX to update the website, which still shows images of a waterfront ball bark.
"Portland is the largest market with only one major league franchise"
That is not an argument to support MLB, it is an argument against. If Portland, and the nearby region, has shown itself to be more into politics, smoking dope, and outdoor activities than setting idle and watching games then the "market" is saying don't come. It doesn't matter the "market size" if the people that live in it have little interest. And, the history of weak Portland fan interest is the market, otherwise there would have been more "major league teams" already.
Too little, too late. Plus, even now, it's not a sure thing. Compare that to the unified front the entire state of Utah, from the governor's office on down, has been presenting from Day One. I know because I've been following the situation up close. Unless something incredibly significant happens (i.e. Phil Knight getting directly involved), the two new franchises are going to be Salt Lake City and Nashville. Keep in mind that both the Portland and Wasatch Front regions have the same size population (approximately 2.5M people). However, Oregon is one of the few states that's losing people on a yearly basis while Utah is one of the fastest growing state in the US.
Well played, The Miami, Charlie. Guess how many people I have talked to around here in the last 40 years about baseball? One, Kenny across the street. Nobody around here even watches the Mariners, since Sweet Lou left.
I appreciate the optimism for MLB in PDX. But at this point SLC, Montreal, and Nashville have passed us by as if we were standing still.
Easy to blame the city of Portland, but it’s not the culprit here. The deal just doesn’t pencil out. We would have a bottom tier population to draw on with the PDX-Salem-Vancouver areas. We have an utter lack of companies that could or would shell out for luxury boxes. And the price of MLB games is long past being a value to entertainment option for most.
And Red Tail? Difficult getting to it on/off freeways, transit infrastructure non existence other than some trimet bus options, and really not an easy commute for anyone. I get that the plan would be a ballpark that drives an economic/entertainment zone, and I get that the Braves have done something as suburban in setting as this...but that is Atlanta with more than 3.5 million more people in the metro, lots of big corporate jobs, a long standing baseball tradition, and great transit to and from ballpark.
Red Tail ain’t that. And “zeroing in on a land purchase” for $50m is different than actually having acquired it.
I keep hearing that there are silent investors at the ready. Time to come out of the woodwork and show you aren’t just phantomware. Give us something to believe in here.
I was peripherally involved with the old SB3150 which has earmarked the $150m in tax to funding. And the effort to bring MLB to PDX doesn’t appear as if it’s even run out a ground ball since then.
And is PDX ready to put 25,000 butts in seats, on a 45 degree night in early April with drizzly rain, knowing it’s an hour commute in and out of Red Tail, to watch the PDX whatever’s play the Kansas City Royals? Yes, sure the hardcore fans will be there, but Joey Bagodonuts and his family won’t be.
And we haven’t even started talking about the Seattle Mariners strong opposition to this, as they have claimed PDX as their territory and would need strong compensation to back off that position.
I love the dream. I love the ambition. I would love to be wrong. I would love to go to a dozen games a year.
Sorry to be Debbie Downer.
It’s time to put the cards on the table if this is real.
Portland- Vancouver- Salem is not bottom tier in Population- at least 1.5 to 2 times that of SLC. Montreal has already failed once. I agree with the points regarding poor political leadership. The proposed stadium size and franchise cost is 1/2 that of the NFL. 30-35,000 stadium with retractable roof. New Las Vegas stadium is that size.
The Wasatch Front, from Provo in the south to Ogden in the north (80 miles separation between the two cities), has a population of over 2.5M people. Hard to believe that the Portland-Vancouver-Salem conurbation has much more than that, seeing as the entire population of Oregon is a little above 4.2M.
Montréal metro is 4.2m but fair point on SLC. And yes, one of the least populated cities with the least amount of people infrastructure in all of major league baseball. That is a competitive disadvantage. My pessimism is not opposition.
I'm pro-baseball to Portland; however, as a property owner on Hall Blvd I advise against a proposed baseball stadium and entertainment district in place of Redtail. As other commenters have mentioned, a stadium of this size needs easy entry and exit. Scholls Ferry Road, Hall Blvd and Oleson Road RIGHT NOW don't have the capacity for the current traffic levels, let alone 25-30k more people in the area 81 days/nights of the year. Also the current construction on HWY 217 leaves much to be desired, but I'm willing to see what it looks like when finished. I hope the Portland Diamond Project and John acknowledge these realities and advocate for a stadium district in a different part of the Portland Metropolitan Area.
Let’s make sure Jody Allen gets nowhere near this project!
disagree...she could make sure it didn't happen
I would pay to go to NHL games, even if it involved going down into Gaza...er... the Lloyd District/Moda Center/whatever it's called nowadays. Baseball? Don't care where it is situated, I'm not coughing up a penny. And putting it in the Washington Square area is sheer lunacy. 217 has been under construction since the Mayflower landed in Astoria. What makes anyone think they'll complete it any time soon?
Good for you. No one is forcing you to do anything.
For me, I'd happily join the nearly 80 million people who attended an MLB game in 2023.
Are you going buy season tickets? If so, you'll be the first of literally dozens of baseball "fans" I've asked the same question. Go ahead and build it, but I don't want to see $1 of public funds (especially my property taxes) to underwrite this boondoggle.
Fine. T hen be equally insistent the county, city and state don't slap any "entertainment" tax on each ticket. They should not benefit from a private project.
So that's a no.
hilarious!
Agree Shazbot....coming from someone who live near the area, the RedTail location is terrible!! The HWY 217 traffic has and never will be good, even with the current changes...now they think they can put a ballpark in that area, the ingress/egress will be terrible!!! I can't imagine what the traffic on 217 would be and the added congestion to local streets people getting off or not using 217 will be a nightmare. I like baseball, but this location is a terrible idea and I would oppose it completely.
any location terrible
Well played, Shazbot; Charlie
I've been a baseball fanatic for seven decades. I've lived in the Portland area for five decades. This will ultimately fail because PORTLAND IS NOT A BASEBALL TOWN. All this will do is ruin a very good municipal golf course and bring another at best so so sports franchise to the area. Remember when PDX tore up the best minor league ball park in the USA to please the soccer gods? I'll keep my Cardinals baseball hat and my Stan the Man, Bullet Bob, and The Wizard of Oz jerseys.
that park sucked for baseball. It never felt like baseball playing there. Loved it for football and it is great for Soccer and it should stay that way. My only complaint is they do not let the Portland State Vikings play football there. Bad publicity move there. I don't attend the soccer games because of it.
So why do you think the baseball park sucked? The revamped park scored high marks and was selected to host the AAA All Star game. Like you, once PDX decided that only soccer would be played there, I started going to Volcanoes games in Keiser. That's about as minimalistic as a park can get.
PDX didn’t decide it. Butts in seats decided it. The Beavers were the largest AAA city with the lowest attendance in AAA for multiple years running.
agree
How are you defining "baseball town"? It terms of fan support, geography, climate and market, it most definitely is. In terms of governmental competence and Fortune 500 strength, it absolutely is not. Portland municipal government may be the single most dysfunctional political body in the country. Oregon has 2 Fortune 500 companies while Utah.....UTAH!! has five.
Perhaps Salt Lake City didn't allow "mostly peaceful protesters" to distory the city's reputation while damaging large businesses and bankrupting a lot of small businesses.
Wisdom of the decades
Well played, David; Charlie
I like baseball. I don't like MLB in Portland. If you are not the LA Dodgers, New York Yankees or Boston Red Sox say hello to a below average team. MLB doesn't work where in my opinion, the fan base are interested more in doing things outside rather than watching others do things outside particularly when the weather is nice. By eliminating Red Tail, the golfers in the community will lose another course and be forced to go further and pay more $'s. That area around Washington Square and 217 will be a complete clown show as far as traffic is concerned. I live in Washington County - I'm not supportive if asked. City of Portland should figure out how to clean up the city, but that is for another story on another day.
Most baseball fans are not bandwagon fans. It's not like football. I'm from San Diego and a Padres fan since early 80s. Not one Padres fan would root for the Dodgers... In baseball locality is everything
Well played, Steven, Charlie
I can’t think of a worse location for a stadium. Difficult location to get to combined with already horrible traffic on 217 and the adjacent side streets
exactly! the small minded PDX elites must have their hands all over this. Horrible location!
I totally agree with your assessment, NearPDX, and I have lived in that 'hood for 54 years. Well played, Charlie
My first thought as well. 217 already has some of the worst traffic in the Portland area, this would be an unbelievable nightmare for those of us who have to commute on it. I'd expect significant community pushback against any plans to build there.
"the purchase amounts to a $50 million infusion for a cash-strapped city." This made me chuckle. Portland has plenty of cash it just does not want to allocate if for greater needs. Greater needs like maintenance of existing little things like roads and park facilities.
Why is this a good location John? 217 is already a mess and mass transit is minimal in this area plus it is surrounded on 3 sides by residential areas. There has got to be better options. I think the price is clouding everyone’s judgement.
This has to be the stupidest of the "options" that have been floated for a ballpark - no mass transit, (rail), to the site, already jammed traffic on 217, tons of traffic on mainly residential arterials in the area. Plus, which city would have to deal with all the issues after it's built - Beaverton? Tigard? I'm willing to bet that wasn't on their bingo cards recently.
The public funding for these things has to stop - if a billionaire, (or a bunch of alleged millionaires), want a team, build it yourself, (I know it'll never happen because "we need to be a big league city").
I've always wondered why a community gives hundreds of millions to a billionaire owner who now has a plaything (NFL, MLB, NHL, NBA team) that's making more money for them outside of their original business at the cost of local schools, roads, sewers, etc.
And no, they don't generate the dollars to pay everyone back..
It needs to be close
In on the east side. You have max and the Lloyd Center and PPS locations would probably be close enough to use the Moda center for additional parking.
A word of warning. The Miami Marlins park is likewise located in a place with no reasonable mass transit and restricted car access. If the crowd is more than 8-10 thousand you must plan an extra 1 hr in bound and at least that outbound. I’m familiar with the 217 mess. I’m shocked anyone but dreamers are giving this site serious consideration without a 2 line Max stop at the front door.
I would support tax dollars for it ONLY if it is set up like the Green Bay Packers and can never leave.
Really well played, SnarlOR (I live in South Beaverton), Charlie
Well played, Bart; Charlie
Why on God's green earth is Ted Wheeler still the mayor of Portland? The guy cuddles with Anarchists. Any planning that includes him will in all likelihood end up in failure due ignoring infrastructure shortcomings. Just watch in the next few years what will happen in Seattle when the Kraken season ticket base dries up. Getting in and out of the Seattle Center is brutal and the only reason Oak Tree was given the go ahead is they came up with a plan to salvage a dilapidated chunk of real estate in town with horrible transportation access. They ignored a much larger potential fan base by hard stopping the project near the intersection of I-5 and I-90 next to Lumen and T-Mobile Park. Trusting liberal leaders to make sound business decisions always fail as they get bogged down in menusha. Signed, Former Kraken Season Ticket Holder Living in Central Washington.
I live in Colorado and I've been asking your opening sentence of your comment for the past three or four years. I don't know if Portland residents realize this, but their city is basically an ongoing joke across the country. Voters need to wise up. I remember going to wonderful Rose parades in the downtown area, strolling around at night during the summer. I wonder how much of that's being done these days. Portland is a shadow of what it once was. Major league baseball is going to come to Portland with that kind of reputation? Seriously doubt it.
I agree John. I grew up there, still visit family there on occasion but would never consider moving back. Once safe neighborhoods are now high crime hell holes (Gaza, lol). And don't even get started about teams staying downtown which is literally a toilet in some areas.
Cheap shot at our city. What Nirvana city do you live in?
I live in the Denver area ... and it's even more of a dump than Portland. BTW, as a former long-time resident of Portland I sincerely believe there are no cheap shots being leveled at the Rose City. They all seem deserved. You get what you deserve when you put people into office.
I've spent time in Denver recently and have family there. I know you have problems as every major city in America does. You say the cheap shots at Portland all seem deserved. You are out of touch. PDX is making many positive changes to deal with our challenges. We don't need people who believe everything they read in the national newspapers piling on. Positive change comes when positive people take action... we are. Kudos to Craig Cheek and his team for being part of that action.
Let me correct you. I said: "There are no cheap shots being leveled at the Rose City." And I'll add that -- to me -- they all seem deserved because of how the city looks to the rest of the country. Perception is important and, unfortunately, that's all people across the country have to go on. As a former resident, I'll look forward with anticipation to seeing the positive changes you say are coming.
Well, not sure how you are correcting me when you say, "No cheap shots... but they all seem deserved". Perception is important for sure, but warmed up stories from two years ago clouds the perception - no?. Maybe get on a jet and visit to see with your own eyes. You'll travel through the #1 rated airport in the USA and can go to a sold out Timbers or Thorns football match. While you are here you can visit the immaculate University of Portland campus and stroll the Alberta District or the Pearl neighborhood and then take in world class symphony at the Arlene Schnitzer Hall.
Well played, Rich. Passionate. Charlie
Portland can’t even keep a Single A club around. Hillsboro needs a new stadium as well. Better off pursuing NFL to guarantee sellouts. I’ll believe it when I see it. I’m already in my 50s. Doubtful it’ll be in my lifetime, that another pro franchise lands in Portland, with all the red tape.
More likely the blazers leave than Portland getting an MLB team.
Good riddance, maybe then we can finally get NHL.
Sad but true.
Interesting idea. What do you think the Portland Metro area's out of pocket costs would be to build that NFL stadium (or the MLB stadium)? Remember, the NFL uses taxpayers money like there's no tomorrow if they can get away with it.
I just can’t see a franchise building even a 40,000 seat baseball stadium that sits half empty, while it builds a fan base. Better hope for a retractable roof and a street sweeper outside the stadium. NFL would bring guaranteed money to the area that baseball would struggle mightily with.
So, should taxpayers foot the bill for an NFL stadium being built for a billionaire owners toy? The average cost of a franchise is $3 Billion. Have you paid attention to the number of mediocre teams in the NFL?
I never once mentioned taxpayers. If taxpayer money would be spent, a lousy idea would be for baseball. Have you paid attention to NFL ratings as opposed to MLB?
Well played, Todd. I'll put the over/under at $195 mill, Charlie
Well played, Todd; Charlie
I dont know that I could think of a worse spot if I was in danger of losing a toe. There is no max stop, the intersection at Hall and Scholls is already a mess and for peak traffic think of what the area is like at christmas for all those doing their shopping. Thats not even 20% of the traffic. Tell me how you get 30,000 people in and out of that area in a manageable way. Can we just let Portland be a one and a half major league sport town and support the teams we have and the semi pro college teams? If you love baseball so much go watch UP. They have a D1 team and a nice little park. Go down to Eugene or Covallis and watch even higher level D1 baseball. This is not happening and MLB is not expanding anytime soon. Tampa is going to stay in Florida and the A's are not coming here. Also the Mariners will not be in favor of any team moving to Portland and will vote against it.
I have an idea...let's put an In N Out burger on the corner of Scholls and Hall while we're at it!
There was talk of putting an In-N-Out near Beaverton-Hillsdale Hwy. & 217 and the neighbors had a conniption fit. Hmmm. I wonder how a 40,000-seat stadium will go over?
Well played, Timothy. If they build the IN N OUT first, so they can get some lumber to the jobsite. Charlie
If a ballpark goes in there they will build MAX to it.
And will people lose their homes for that line due to eminent domain? ( Because I baseball stadium is more important...)
Why Mariners oppose based on their travel schedule? Wouldn’t steal that many spectators.
Well played, Devon. Excellent summary, Charlie
Okay taking bets on MLB to Portland 1500000000000 to 1. We each have a better chance of winning powerball 3 times in a row than this ever happening.
The RedTail site is a horrible choice for myriad reasons: Poor access to public transit and no access to light rail. Little or no existing hotel or hospitality infrastructure. A surrounding neighborhood that makes the word "blah" seem exciting. On a typical, non-event day, you're looking at a solid 45-minute to one-hour drive from anywhere east of the river. Any way you look at it, the RedTail site is a huge cop-out.
I am a regular at RedTail. It is heavily played and the only public course on the west side. But let's be honest here—Portland city leadership has shown its distain for golf because it's perceived as a game for rich, white people. Not "inclusive" enough. Joann Hardesty made this clear when she proposed selling off one of the public courses near the airport and turning it into a homeless camp. Golf doesn't fit City Hall's vision for whatever they want their lawless, drug-addled shithole to become.
With that amount of land the development will likely include hotels, restaurants, light rail line, apartments, etc. it won’t just be a baseball field in the middle of a huge piece of land.
Washington Square Mall has traffic jams during peak times. I can’t imagine they would be in favor. There’s already hotels, apartments and restaurants close by. Would the present housing be demolished?
Do not count me among the naysayers who maintain Portland is not a 'baseball town'. Seattle was no more a baseball town than Portland when it landed the Mariners - and the Mariners would be playing elsewhere if not for some strong-arming by politicians to arrange public funding for a new ballpark the voters didn't want approved. The Mavericks and Beavers, when Triple-A franchises, did pretty well at old Civic Stadium.
If memory serves: Portland is the largest market with only one 'major league' franchise; it is the largest market without an MLB team - and is larger than several markets which do have teams. Build a stadium with a retractable roof, with an owner or ownership group who has the resources and the will to field a competitive team and MLB will succeed in PDX.
Salt Lake is an interesting situation. If ever a market out-punched its weight, it's SLC. Hell, they hosted an Olympics; now they are (evidently) first in line for the NHL and their overtures to MLB make me ill - because in my view it should be Portland.
Finally: Might be time for MLB to PDX to update the website, which still shows images of a waterfront ball bark.
Agreed. Done right, baseball could succeed here.
SLC has nothing on Portland—except for civic leaders who aren't complete clowns.
"Portland is the largest market with only one major league franchise"
That is not an argument to support MLB, it is an argument against. If Portland, and the nearby region, has shown itself to be more into politics, smoking dope, and outdoor activities than setting idle and watching games then the "market" is saying don't come. It doesn't matter the "market size" if the people that live in it have little interest. And, the history of weak Portland fan interest is the market, otherwise there would have been more "major league teams" already.
Too little, too late. Plus, even now, it's not a sure thing. Compare that to the unified front the entire state of Utah, from the governor's office on down, has been presenting from Day One. I know because I've been following the situation up close. Unless something incredibly significant happens (i.e. Phil Knight getting directly involved), the two new franchises are going to be Salt Lake City and Nashville. Keep in mind that both the Portland and Wasatch Front regions have the same size population (approximately 2.5M people). However, Oregon is one of the few states that's losing people on a yearly basis while Utah is one of the fastest growing state in the US.
Well played, The Miami, Charlie. Guess how many people I have talked to around here in the last 40 years about baseball? One, Kenny across the street. Nobody around here even watches the Mariners, since Sweet Lou left.
And i remember when Sweet Lou played for the Beavers and mgr Johnny Lipton. Ahhhh, those were the days.........:).
"Sweet Lou" Pinella? Wow, that's a long, long time ago.
Luckily Vancouver and Clark County are still growing. Maybe they can put a team up there!
I appreciate the optimism for MLB in PDX. But at this point SLC, Montreal, and Nashville have passed us by as if we were standing still.
Easy to blame the city of Portland, but it’s not the culprit here. The deal just doesn’t pencil out. We would have a bottom tier population to draw on with the PDX-Salem-Vancouver areas. We have an utter lack of companies that could or would shell out for luxury boxes. And the price of MLB games is long past being a value to entertainment option for most.
And Red Tail? Difficult getting to it on/off freeways, transit infrastructure non existence other than some trimet bus options, and really not an easy commute for anyone. I get that the plan would be a ballpark that drives an economic/entertainment zone, and I get that the Braves have done something as suburban in setting as this...but that is Atlanta with more than 3.5 million more people in the metro, lots of big corporate jobs, a long standing baseball tradition, and great transit to and from ballpark.
Red Tail ain’t that. And “zeroing in on a land purchase” for $50m is different than actually having acquired it.
I keep hearing that there are silent investors at the ready. Time to come out of the woodwork and show you aren’t just phantomware. Give us something to believe in here.
I was peripherally involved with the old SB3150 which has earmarked the $150m in tax to funding. And the effort to bring MLB to PDX doesn’t appear as if it’s even run out a ground ball since then.
And is PDX ready to put 25,000 butts in seats, on a 45 degree night in early April with drizzly rain, knowing it’s an hour commute in and out of Red Tail, to watch the PDX whatever’s play the Kansas City Royals? Yes, sure the hardcore fans will be there, but Joey Bagodonuts and his family won’t be.
And we haven’t even started talking about the Seattle Mariners strong opposition to this, as they have claimed PDX as their territory and would need strong compensation to back off that position.
I love the dream. I love the ambition. I would love to be wrong. I would love to go to a dozen games a year.
Sorry to be Debbie Downer.
It’s time to put the cards on the table if this is real.
Portland- Vancouver- Salem is not bottom tier in Population- at least 1.5 to 2 times that of SLC. Montreal has already failed once. I agree with the points regarding poor political leadership. The proposed stadium size and franchise cost is 1/2 that of the NFL. 30-35,000 stadium with retractable roof. New Las Vegas stadium is that size.
The Wasatch Front, from Provo in the south to Ogden in the north (80 miles separation between the two cities), has a population of over 2.5M people. Hard to believe that the Portland-Vancouver-Salem conurbation has much more than that, seeing as the entire population of Oregon is a little above 4.2M.
Montréal metro is 4.2m but fair point on SLC. And yes, one of the least populated cities with the least amount of people infrastructure in all of major league baseball. That is a competitive disadvantage. My pessimism is not opposition.
I'm pro-baseball to Portland; however, as a property owner on Hall Blvd I advise against a proposed baseball stadium and entertainment district in place of Redtail. As other commenters have mentioned, a stadium of this size needs easy entry and exit. Scholls Ferry Road, Hall Blvd and Oleson Road RIGHT NOW don't have the capacity for the current traffic levels, let alone 25-30k more people in the area 81 days/nights of the year. Also the current construction on HWY 217 leaves much to be desired, but I'm willing to see what it looks like when finished. I hope the Portland Diamond Project and John acknowledge these realities and advocate for a stadium district in a different part of the Portland Metropolitan Area.