Great history lesson in the rivalry of the Civil War, and how the Eagles and Dolan were able to convince the fans to resurrect the tradition. Thank you John. That being said, after reading comments from Beaver fans on this platform the past three + months, I seriously doubt you will find any supporters of keeping the 100+ tradition alive. As a Duck fan, I’d like the Civil War to continue. And now I’ll wait to hear from many OSU fans to tell me to pound sand you know where! Also want to add that I’m thankful for the conversations, suggestions, ideas, and public discourse your forum provides...at least most of the time, until one goes a bit too over the top (IMO)
As a Beaver fan, I would like the Civil War game to continue, but September? Only if it’s tradition of late November (preferably Thanksgiving weekend) can be scheduled. Otherwise it’s just another pre-season game.
Think it’d be fine in September. Iowa and Iowa state play their rivalry game in September and it doesn’t diminish the importance of that game to their fans. Besides, might be kind of nice to have the Civil War played in warm weather.
Choices were made, and choices have consequences. One of those consequences is ending longstanding traditions and relationships. You don't get a divorce and then go out on dates with your ex. Non-conference games in September do not a rivalry make. Life will go on.
It wasn't a marriage. It was a family business, with different siblings and cousins deciding to strike out on their own.
Refusing to work with your sister over some hurt feelings because she left the family business to work at the big corporation in the city to your own financial detriment isn't sound decision making. It's irrational, emotion-based decision making.
I'll need to see evidence that OSU hosting UO once every other year (and that's if UO would even agree to play there under the new circumstances) would really make a meaningful difference for OSU's ability to fund athletics at a level that keeps them competitive. In the very short term OSU might pull it off using remaining Pac assets, but once the NCAA rules state in two years they have to be at eight teams to be a conference, I think that's when the decline will begin. Before long, UO/OSU playing in September will feel no different than a game against Portland State.
Not to go too far off on a tangent, but Ross Dellenger published this today, and it features an AD from one of UO's future conference mates saying the day when the power conferences split off and share revenues with players is not far off. Sadly college football is hurtling towards the day when you'll have 30-ish teams forming NFL Lite, while the rest go on in relative anonymity.
It is a guaranteed sell out with minimal travel and one that people actually tune in to watch. The alternative is hosting a Mountain West team every other year. There's definitely value to be had there that OSU would be leaving on the table if they rejected due to hurt feelings.
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Conferences splitting from the NCAA in the future is a different concern, and likely why Oregon finally gave in and joined the Big Ten even though they wanted the PAC to work. The NCAA trying to keep player stipends, NIL, and revenue sharing at bay has resulted in an adversarial relationship with the P4 and the NCAA. The P4 don't want to continue to lose federal court cases because the NCAA forced them to abide by outdated rules that were written long before massive media contracts.
And to that end, Oregon State's only hope of remaining viable is to continue to play them, not to avoid them.
The difference in ticket sales for one home game every two years would be nominal, especially measured against the shortfall in conference revenues. Oregon State's future viability is making sure they can compete at the G5 level, such that they could be in line to gain the one automatic bid the five conferences will get to the CFP, and the money that comes with it. Playing Oregon most likely deals them a bad loss that would end their chances. Suggesting that OSU somehow needs UO to be viable going forward is just the epitome of pompousness.
Declining revenue from realignment and the resulting lack of media deal is going to happen regardless. That shouldn't mean you pass on making money where you can.
Avoiding Oregon and the Civil War in hopes of looking like the best G5 team surely won't go over well with anyone.
Small sample size, but the sentiment here among OSU fans seems to lean towards ending the Civil War after Friday, at least for the time being. And for competitive purposes on the Beavers side, and seeming indifference towards the game on the Ducks side, I'm for moving on as well.
And just for the record, I'm not an OSU fan, or UO fan....just a 17-year OR resident who is a big fan of CFB in general, and doesn't like where the sport is headed. Though I have to confess I am both very interested in seeing how Oregon will stack up in the Big Ten, and rooting hard for Oregon State to succeed to the point they end up back at the big table someday.
A very nice tribute to Amy and Billy Eagles but I am still in the never again camp. If the Civil War were so important to the university of Greed then they should never have moved to the Big Ten. actions have consequences.
I'm somewhat disappointed in any attempt to save the Civil War. Likely because I'm still upset how Oregon made the decision without consideration for other members or their own student athletes. When golf is more important than attending an actual meeting to discuss it with the board, you know it wasn't well thought out. So at this point, I could care less about Oregon and ever playing them again. Find another big time school to set up a deal with and then the rivalry shifts to OSU and WSU. That's a game between true friends anyway.
History: O fans stole corn from Corvallis farmers, snuck it into the stadium, and pelted OSU fans with it.
Today: O steals OSU’s football future, sneaks off to the B1G, and pelts OSU fans with, “Sorry for your luck, Bi***es!” as they drive through town in a Nike branded Brinks truck.
That is hysterical. It does not surprise me at all. I would have guessed at that. That is where the soccer fields are now and where the old football stadium and track (then called Bell Field) were before Parker Stadium was built (it was still there in the late 60s / early 70s as an intramural field). Here is a photo from 1948. See where the football stadium is in respect to the Memorial Union (basically, where the Rec center is now). Across the street are the fields where there was probably corn planted, so easy to get at: https://live.staticflickr.com/7169/6443596675_244494889c_b.jpg
well written, the death song, at this point, for the Pac-12 Conference--a result of the inept, cowardly and short-sighted leadership of college presidents who put money over the tradition and history that up to this point, have made "college" a warm, encouraging and stirring experience that enriches and brings generations together--Break up the conferences, tear down the statues and let's move on to a sterile experience that is based on wins and losses, gate receipts, NIL and all the other empty aspects that are taking the fun out of going to school, rooting for the alma mater, the local team, and winning at all costs.
Did you actually travel to the cemetery and see the marker, John? As you noted, that is a pioneer cemetery and has been around since the migration to the west in the 1840s / 50s. My aunt and uncle are there, though the rest of our family are at Oak Lawn in Corvallis.
No, Chip.......Oregon did not create this mess. I know it's comforting to blame the Ducks.
Networks and old white men in conference rooms you and I will never be in created this mess. Money created this mess. Can argue the California schools started this mess with the PAC12. Texas and Oklahoma with the Big12. But be honest with yourself........if you were offered a better gig someplace else, you'd take it.
Thing is, it's not a better deal. $32.5M first year. UCLA says extra costs are $10M. UW says it's more than $10M. Cal says its above $10M and will play in Dallas to mitigated it some
Pac 12 deal on the table was about that net number
All this did was hurt businesses and students all across the system.
John Karl Scholz is allegedly an economist by training. He clearly failed to account for all the costs to this state. He's a fucking idiot. We are going to do our best to make his tenure miserable here.
Chris, I think Scholz recognized that next year's revenue is not a placeholder for the next 20 years. Better to take $25M with West Coast travel expenses for the foreseeable future, or $32.5M now with a hefty growth curve in revenue? And by the way, the $32.5 is the media part of the deal. There will be other revenue that comes from the BigTen starting next year.
No silly, cash gets tight. The elite programs break off by themselves. Ohio State, Texas, Michigan, Alabama, etc all break off and leave the others by the way side....the Oregons, Kentuckys, Nebraskas, etc all are left to fend for scraps
Oregon will be cast aside in the new TV deal because there will be too many mouths to feed.
I recall a couple articles where Canzano said that OSU was an ardent supporter of Larry Scott right up to the end. Chris, you conveniently don’t acknowledge OSU’s role in the demise of the Pac12.
Exactly, Chris and Chip. And his “old white men” meeting in conference rooms far from the madding crowd is more than a little creepy and uncalled for. And untrue, eh, “Backdoor?”
Chris, I agree with you wholeheartedly and one of the questions that hasn't really been answered is why does the University of Oregon want to continue playing Oregon State University? One poster surmised that it was to try and assuage their guilt others think it's so that they don't have to travel so far. Does anybody really think for a moment that they are pushing for this in order to help Oregon state? I seriously doubt it given all of the previous actions that have led up to this debacle were made only in the best interest of the University of Oregon.
If you think that maintaining the Civil War rivalry helps Oregon more than Oregon State I think you aren’t really thinking it through. Oregon State could easily be replaced with a cupcake as a home game and it would probably allow an easier playoff path for Oregon. As a duck fan who grew up in Eugene and has followed the team since the 80s, I would rather see the rivalry maintained.
A lot happened to the Ducks. Just obviously not nearly as much as the Beavs. Ducks didn’t want the conference to die. They made a business choice based on the options presented which included a terrible streaming deal. Not interested in debating this for the 100th time. Just wanted to point out the Ducks did NOT want the conference to implode. It sucks!
Revisionist history can only be published to cover up the actual events and who perpetrated the hit job. It’s not working. Karma is a b***h. That will be delivered next fall.
Forums like this tend to bring out those with the loudest opinions, so I'd really be curious to see the results if a scientific survey was taken among both the UO and OSU rank-and-file fanbases on their interest in trying to continue the series.
Of course these days college administrators increasingly demonstrate that they don't care what the fans/alumni think. Only that which brings in the most money matters.
So Duck fans suddenly have the Beavers' best interest at heart with this whole future nonsensical Civil War talk? Yes, these are exactly the folks OSU should listen to! They've proven their loyalty and honestly so beautifully time and time again. OSU should just take the wise advice of Big Brother who truly wants nothing but the best for their homeless former conference partner up the road.
What do ducks fans have to do with any of this? It’s as if the pac-12 and the tradition and this rivalry don’t mean anything to us? I didn’t get a vote either. I would never have voted for this mess. I’m so frustrated by this type of discourse. I am forever green and yellow , but I love this state as do many of us in the ducks fan base. I always root for the beavs except CW week. I’ve chosen to put what could be a petty grudge aside because I know what is good for OSU is good for the state of Oregon and even UO. I’m an alumni. I was born and raised in Portland. I grew up with this conference and proud to be from the pacific NW. Not the enemy.
Sorry, but I'm having a tough time seeing the Ducks as victims here. The Civil War will never be the same. It's dead from its present form. To continue it would be a cruelty to Beaver fans. BTW, I'm a lifetime Oregonian married to a Duck for 41 years who happens to agree with me.
Not worth a response just like the Civil War isn’t worth playing. The arrogance by the UO’s fans and administrators is breathtaking. Why would we want to play these morons?
Not so fast. Because of some calculated hyjinx perpetrated by nefarious actors trying their best to scuttle the PAC, the Beavers are now an FCS program? Surely you
The bottom 60 of FBS are about the same as the top of FCS in terms of quality. That shows up on the recruiting websites like 247. Do you consider Utah State (132nd) or Holy Cross (167th) a true FBS program? There are 133 FBS schools. Some of the FCS schools have better recruiting than the bottom of the FBS like North Dakota State (108th), Sacramento State (132nd).. Houston Christian is 129th. The Beavers are currently 55th where they have been for years (sometimes in the 40s like last year; with the benefit of being in the PAC12 and a P5 program). There will be about 70 FBS (P5/4) teams going forward and with the bigger TV contracts and the P5/4 status for the CFP they will be able to recruit better than the G5. Do you really think a team with quality 1/2 of the current Beavers team have a chance to compete in the upper tier of the FBS? If teams in the bottom half of the FBS (the G5) could compete with the P5 then money and TV contracts would not matter. Right?
Like it or not we (OSU and Oregon) are family. We live in the same state, we work with each other, we worship with each other, we are neighbors and like family we get together at holidays and often agree to disagree over many things while sharing a meal. I’m old enough to remember when both of these football programs were so bad that this game is all we had (see 1983 0-0 game). We might have sucked but at least one of us had a meaningful victory most years. I get feelings are raw right now. But stepping back and taking a breath or two and trying to keep things in perspective it seems like we risk losing a lot by losing this game.
Yes, we are family, and that's why the betrayal stings so bad. I'm married to a Duck for decades. Best person in my world. He happens to feel exactly how I do about all of this. No thank you to any more Civil Wars from either of us. And BTW, we both attended the Toilet Bowl--together.
John when comments occur like on today's post--I wish you had an FU button rather than the "liked" only. I have no desire to play the ducks. Good for the Eagles--different times and certainly different motivations. In this case the ducks are all about greed.
Very simple. Elitist attitude of duckies. Uneven playing field, Beaver's getting 10 mil a year, duckies getting 60 mil a year. If you want an easy game just keep scheduling Portland State and other non-conference games against teams that can't compete.
As for the chance of reconciliation between OSU and Oregon, the chance is zero, though I know a lot of people are wishing for it. There will be over $100M separating the two athletic programs going forward: $160M vs. $50M (maybe). No matter how good the coaching and the amount of "coaching up" that takes place, that talent gap cannot be filled and the two programs, all the major sports, are going opposite directions. I would love if someone would say that a 100+ year tradition of rivalry and relative parity was worth sharing the athletic budgets at both schools so that level competition can continue. But that isn't going to happen. So, unlike 1910, when there was virtually no budget at all for either school and so they were equals, that is not the case in 2024 and beyond. The rivalry is done, at least for sports where talent matters.
I'm sorry Mr. Canzano, I disagree. A tradition of sitting around the Christmas tree on Christmas Eve, reading Christmas stories with the family and sipping hot chocolate is great. Playing football with a backstabbing institution for a paycheck is not the sort of tradition I want to remember. If we ever play the school from Eugene again I will be disappointed in OSU's decision.
…’it should continue because the rivalry is part of the fabric of the state.’
For 100 years the PAC 8/10/12 has been the fabric of the entire west coast. The PAC has been admired and hated; it has had seasons of incredible strength and power; it has had losses that break hearts and victories that leave you breathless.
Unfortunately, the PAC is no more. It is time to move on. Play the Ducks, but don’t call it the Civil War. Let the huskies and Cougars play; but not in the Apple Cup.
Call these games what they will be; a sad nod to a once mighty athletic conference that was destroyed by greed. A sad nod to an era that is no more.
To pretend that all the PAC rivalries can continue like nothing has happened allows those who made incredibly bad decisions a moment of forgiveness.
They are never to be forgiven for the incredible lack of oversight, management and even the slightest hint of giving a damn. Thanks to them, the PAC is dead.
Nope , Not at this time. OSU must find a way to be funded at a higher level than what it looks like now to keep the playing field somewhat level. They left good riddance to the ducks!
The other half of your conference was able to continue its state rivalry. Sad that you would rather wallow in bitterness vs make the best of a rough situation.
Ending the rivalry IS the difficult and wise decision to make for OSU given all the circumstances.
Duck fans do not have a legitimate reason for desiring any further CW games.
Citing 'tradition' is pure hypocrisy. If tradition was valued AT ALL by UO (and UW) the outcome would have been different. Look south to AZ and 2 Cal schools who cared enough for tradition and history to stick together when this all hit the fan.
They were forced to continue their rivalry by their state legislature.. They share a board of regents. Not the same in Oregon where the two universities are completely separate and only have proximity in common. Oregon might as well start booking Willamette U. I doubt the rivalry in Washington will continue for more than 3 or 4 years. The games will not be competitive with WSU relegated to a lower division
Okay, stand corrected on that. I had read that previously but researched it and yes, the state schools in Washington are split. Oregon universities were split a couple decades ago. Earlier they had been managed by one board for allocation of schools (OSU has no medical school or architecture school, Oregon has no engineering or forestry school, for example). I think it was the same in Washington but I can't easily find a reference to this
And because they are in different systems, that is why it would take the state legislature to compel them to remain in the same conference. But laws like that are a double-edged sword....you make one fanbase happy by ensuring they have the financial means to remain competitive, but anger the other because they see it as holding them back. Hence that bill never went anywhere, nor would it have if someone introduced the same thing in the OR legislature.
There was a lot of sentiment among Washington state political leaders to keep UW and WSU playing together and maintaining tradition. The bill to force them to stay in the same conference did not pass (should have, like it did in Arizona so that Arizona was forced to wait for ASU to be offered a Big 12 invite). The sentiment in Washington legislature remains: https://247sports.com/Article/Washington-State-senator-details-bill-requiring-Washington-Huskies-and-WSU-Cougars-to-play-in-same-conference-202855287/. Who do you think decides these things? The fans? The coaches? The players? No, it is the state power brokers.
Okay. Thanks for the clarification. As you said, the WA state legislature has yet to formally force them to continue the rivalry. Just a discussion and failed vote in the legislature. It is hard these days to pass any legislation in WA state that does not follow strict party lines.
As it is, OSU and WSU were always at the bottom of the P5 in terms of the revenue they generated from Football and all sports. But still the athletic revenue they generated was more than double what your average Mountain West school generated. So, it will be a struggle for OSU and WSU to maintain their places at the bottom of the P5 in terms of revenue generation, especially since many P% schools are about to get a revenue bump from increased media rights money
I don’t think we should play them under these terms, sir. The administrators at this school have no qualms about stabbing people in the back. And then they try to make everything OK by creating a rivalry that forgets history and helps them save travel and money every year with no benefit to the school they dumped on.
Totally agree. My thinking changes completely if OSU has the funding of Oregon going forward and is able to play in a P5 conference so the Beavs can recruit. I have zero idea how that is going to happen since all the P5 conferences already rejected OSU and WSU
If I'm not mistaken there is precedent in our current conference arrangement Brian. California politicians are making UCLA pay Cal. Now that might have changed with Cal joining the far eastern conference. In a way it makes sense, same with Washington and Wash. State. If the state universities are really state properties, then the revenue earned by sports teams would be in reality, state property too. This whole thing is crazy.
The difference with the CA schools is Cal still is funded at P5 levels just like UCLA. OSU and WSU will be lucky to get MWC kind of money which will make the differential over $100M with Oregon. Do you really think the two teams will have anything close to equal talent and other resources? I have watched Div 2 games. It is just not the same, though NDSU did manage to beat UofMN a decade ago. And the UofMN coach was promptly fired.
If Cal and Stanford have billionaire sugar daddys, like Oregon does, then they might have the option to forgo revenue. SMU moved to the ACC for free as well because they have many billionaires who will fund their athletics (which lays to a lie any statements from Duck fans that they needed to move to the B1G for the money...bullcrap, PK gives them more a year than will their media deal).
Stanford sure, but remember Cal has the most debt compared to any other FBS school, and not by just a little. They are known to make very poor financial decisions
Great history lesson in the rivalry of the Civil War, and how the Eagles and Dolan were able to convince the fans to resurrect the tradition. Thank you John. That being said, after reading comments from Beaver fans on this platform the past three + months, I seriously doubt you will find any supporters of keeping the 100+ tradition alive. As a Duck fan, I’d like the Civil War to continue. And now I’ll wait to hear from many OSU fans to tell me to pound sand you know where! Also want to add that I’m thankful for the conversations, suggestions, ideas, and public discourse your forum provides...at least most of the time, until one goes a bit too over the top (IMO)
As a Beaver fan, I would like the Civil War game to continue, but September? Only if it’s tradition of late November (preferably Thanksgiving weekend) can be scheduled. Otherwise it’s just another pre-season game.
Think it’d be fine in September. Iowa and Iowa state play their rivalry game in September and it doesn’t diminish the importance of that game to their fans. Besides, might be kind of nice to have the Civil War played in warm weather.
That’s what I’d like Jeanie. Happy Thanksgiving 🍁
Choices were made, and choices have consequences. One of those consequences is ending longstanding traditions and relationships. You don't get a divorce and then go out on dates with your ex. Non-conference games in September do not a rivalry make. Life will go on.
It wasn't a marriage. It was a family business, with different siblings and cousins deciding to strike out on their own.
Refusing to work with your sister over some hurt feelings because she left the family business to work at the big corporation in the city to your own financial detriment isn't sound decision making. It's irrational, emotion-based decision making.
Sorry bad analogy
I'll need to see evidence that OSU hosting UO once every other year (and that's if UO would even agree to play there under the new circumstances) would really make a meaningful difference for OSU's ability to fund athletics at a level that keeps them competitive. In the very short term OSU might pull it off using remaining Pac assets, but once the NCAA rules state in two years they have to be at eight teams to be a conference, I think that's when the decline will begin. Before long, UO/OSU playing in September will feel no different than a game against Portland State.
Not to go too far off on a tangent, but Ross Dellenger published this today, and it features an AD from one of UO's future conference mates saying the day when the power conferences split off and share revenues with players is not far off. Sadly college football is hurtling towards the day when you'll have 30-ish teams forming NFL Lite, while the rest go on in relative anonymity.
https://sports.yahoo.com/is-college-athletics-headed-for-the-great-split-we-need-to-recreate-or-relaunch-the-ncaa-160523061.html
It is a guaranteed sell out with minimal travel and one that people actually tune in to watch. The alternative is hosting a Mountain West team every other year. There's definitely value to be had there that OSU would be leaving on the table if they rejected due to hurt feelings.
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Conferences splitting from the NCAA in the future is a different concern, and likely why Oregon finally gave in and joined the Big Ten even though they wanted the PAC to work. The NCAA trying to keep player stipends, NIL, and revenue sharing at bay has resulted in an adversarial relationship with the P4 and the NCAA. The P4 don't want to continue to lose federal court cases because the NCAA forced them to abide by outdated rules that were written long before massive media contracts.
And to that end, Oregon State's only hope of remaining viable is to continue to play them, not to avoid them.
The difference in ticket sales for one home game every two years would be nominal, especially measured against the shortfall in conference revenues. Oregon State's future viability is making sure they can compete at the G5 level, such that they could be in line to gain the one automatic bid the five conferences will get to the CFP, and the money that comes with it. Playing Oregon most likely deals them a bad loss that would end their chances. Suggesting that OSU somehow needs UO to be viable going forward is just the epitome of pompousness.
Declining revenue from realignment and the resulting lack of media deal is going to happen regardless. That shouldn't mean you pass on making money where you can.
Avoiding Oregon and the Civil War in hopes of looking like the best G5 team surely won't go over well with anyone.
Small sample size, but the sentiment here among OSU fans seems to lean towards ending the Civil War after Friday, at least for the time being. And for competitive purposes on the Beavers side, and seeming indifference towards the game on the Ducks side, I'm for moving on as well.
And just for the record, I'm not an OSU fan, or UO fan....just a 17-year OR resident who is a big fan of CFB in general, and doesn't like where the sport is headed. Though I have to confess I am both very interested in seeing how Oregon will stack up in the Big Ten, and rooting hard for Oregon State to succeed to the point they end up back at the big table someday.
A very nice tribute to Amy and Billy Eagles but I am still in the never again camp. If the Civil War were so important to the university of Greed then they should never have moved to the Big Ten. actions have consequences.
Same here, Chip!
I'm somewhat disappointed in any attempt to save the Civil War. Likely because I'm still upset how Oregon made the decision without consideration for other members or their own student athletes. When golf is more important than attending an actual meeting to discuss it with the board, you know it wasn't well thought out. So at this point, I could care less about Oregon and ever playing them again. Find another big time school to set up a deal with and then the rivalry shifts to OSU and WSU. That's a game between true friends anyway.
I'm wondering where the ears of corn came from, were they a staple at concession stands back in the day?
History: O fans stole corn from Corvallis farmers, snuck it into the stadium, and pelted OSU fans with it.
Today: O steals OSU’s football future, sneaks off to the B1G, and pelts OSU fans with, “Sorry for your luck, Bi***es!” as they drive through town in a Nike branded Brinks truck.
Did I get that right?
That is hysterical. It does not surprise me at all. I would have guessed at that. That is where the soccer fields are now and where the old football stadium and track (then called Bell Field) were before Parker Stadium was built (it was still there in the late 60s / early 70s as an intramural field). Here is a photo from 1948. See where the football stadium is in respect to the Memorial Union (basically, where the Rec center is now). Across the street are the fields where there was probably corn planted, so easy to get at: https://live.staticflickr.com/7169/6443596675_244494889c_b.jpg
well written, the death song, at this point, for the Pac-12 Conference--a result of the inept, cowardly and short-sighted leadership of college presidents who put money over the tradition and history that up to this point, have made "college" a warm, encouraging and stirring experience that enriches and brings generations together--Break up the conferences, tear down the statues and let's move on to a sterile experience that is based on wins and losses, gate receipts, NIL and all the other empty aspects that are taking the fun out of going to school, rooting for the alma mater, the local team, and winning at all costs.
Did you actually travel to the cemetery and see the marker, John? As you noted, that is a pioneer cemetery and has been around since the migration to the west in the 1840s / 50s. My aunt and uncle are there, though the rest of our family are at Oak Lawn in Corvallis.
I am not a cemetery guy... But I made it a mission to stop by there to see it myself.
Unless the payoff is so much money where it is dumb to walk away, I'd rather walk away. The Ducks created this mess, and I have no real desire.
No, Chip.......Oregon did not create this mess. I know it's comforting to blame the Ducks.
Networks and old white men in conference rooms you and I will never be in created this mess. Money created this mess. Can argue the California schools started this mess with the PAC12. Texas and Oklahoma with the Big12. But be honest with yourself........if you were offered a better gig someplace else, you'd take it.
Thing is, it's not a better deal. $32.5M first year. UCLA says extra costs are $10M. UW says it's more than $10M. Cal says its above $10M and will play in Dallas to mitigated it some
Pac 12 deal on the table was about that net number
All this did was hurt businesses and students all across the system.
John Karl Scholz is allegedly an economist by training. He clearly failed to account for all the costs to this state. He's a fucking idiot. We are going to do our best to make his tenure miserable here.
Chris, I think Scholz recognized that next year's revenue is not a placeholder for the next 20 years. Better to take $25M with West Coast travel expenses for the foreseeable future, or $32.5M now with a hefty growth curve in revenue? And by the way, the $32.5 is the media part of the deal. There will be other revenue that comes from the BigTen starting next year.
By 2030 tv as we know it is gone. In a decade ESPN has lost 35M subs. And the rate of drops is falling now even faster.
Local retransmission rates are thru the roof and have to double for NBC, Fox, CBS to pay for the Big 10 deal with the same sub count.
In 2030 the money tightens and the survival crew will cut more.
This thing will collapse
And, the retrenchment would apply proportionally. If the Big Ten dropped from $60M shares to $30, the Pac12 would drop from $25 to $13.
You think everything reduces proportionally?
No silly, cash gets tight. The elite programs break off by themselves. Ohio State, Texas, Michigan, Alabama, etc all break off and leave the others by the way side....the Oregons, Kentuckys, Nebraskas, etc all are left to fend for scraps
Oregon will be cast aside in the new TV deal because there will be too many mouths to feed.
I recall a couple articles where Canzano said that OSU was an ardent supporter of Larry Scott right up to the end. Chris, you conveniently don’t acknowledge OSU’s role in the demise of the Pac12.
ALL of the schools were supporters of Lsrry Scott. When he was renewed the first time is proof. That required 9 votes. It was unanimous.
Scream whatever you want oleary, doesn't change a thing
Let me refresh your memory
https://www.oregonlive.com/sports/oregonian/john_canzano/2018/12/canzano_time_for_oregon_state_1.html
I'm well aware.
No different from EVERY single other school.
Spin it. We're going to make Scholz time in Oregon absolutely miserable.
The inconvenient truth
Come on, man. This isn't hard. What is missing in the list below? This is athletic dept. revenue. I'll give you a hint: The PAC12 is missing.
1-Ohio State $251
2-Texas $239
3-Alabama $214
4-Michigan $210
5-Georgia $203
6-LSU $199
7-Texas A&M $193
8-Florida $190
9-Penn State $181
10-Oklahoma $177
11-Auburn $174
12-Michigan State $172
Oregon is not getting that revenue. That's the point
And who will pay for this? Cable subs now below 1990 levels. I'm going to drop my cable after this year. I have an antenna.
All of these networks selling their souls won't be able to pay for this. This is just like the RSN failure
Exactly, Chris and Chip. And his “old white men” meeting in conference rooms far from the madding crowd is more than a little creepy and uncalled for. And untrue, eh, “Backdoor?”
…old white men? Are you
Kidding? What is wrong with you?
“Old white men?”
Chris, I agree with you wholeheartedly and one of the questions that hasn't really been answered is why does the University of Oregon want to continue playing Oregon State University? One poster surmised that it was to try and assuage their guilt others think it's so that they don't have to travel so far. Does anybody really think for a moment that they are pushing for this in order to help Oregon state? I seriously doubt it given all of the previous actions that have led up to this debacle were made only in the best interest of the University of Oregon.
If you think that maintaining the Civil War rivalry helps Oregon more than Oregon State I think you aren’t really thinking it through. Oregon State could easily be replaced with a cupcake as a home game and it would probably allow an easier playoff path for Oregon. As a duck fan who grew up in Eugene and has followed the team since the 80s, I would rather see the rivalry maintained.
Hey, nothing happened to the Ducks. Why wouldn't all Duck fans want to continue a lop-sided "rivalry"?
A lot happened to the Ducks. Just obviously not nearly as much as the Beavs. Ducks didn’t want the conference to die. They made a business choice based on the options presented which included a terrible streaming deal. Not interested in debating this for the 100th time. Just wanted to point out the Ducks did NOT want the conference to implode. It sucks!
So, get over it and be on your way to the B1G. I am not crying about this. Just wondering what comes next for me and for the Beavers
Revisionist history can only be published to cover up the actual events and who perpetrated the hit job. It’s not working. Karma is a b***h. That will be delivered next fall.
You can’t fix stupid.
Forums like this tend to bring out those with the loudest opinions, so I'd really be curious to see the results if a scientific survey was taken among both the UO and OSU rank-and-file fanbases on their interest in trying to continue the series.
Of course these days college administrators increasingly demonstrate that they don't care what the fans/alumni think. Only that which brings in the most money matters.
So Duck fans suddenly have the Beavers' best interest at heart with this whole future nonsensical Civil War talk? Yes, these are exactly the folks OSU should listen to! They've proven their loyalty and honestly so beautifully time and time again. OSU should just take the wise advice of Big Brother who truly wants nothing but the best for their homeless former conference partner up the road.
What do ducks fans have to do with any of this? It’s as if the pac-12 and the tradition and this rivalry don’t mean anything to us? I didn’t get a vote either. I would never have voted for this mess. I’m so frustrated by this type of discourse. I am forever green and yellow , but I love this state as do many of us in the ducks fan base. I always root for the beavs except CW week. I’ve chosen to put what could be a petty grudge aside because I know what is good for OSU is good for the state of Oregon and even UO. I’m an alumni. I was born and raised in Portland. I grew up with this conference and proud to be from the pacific NW. Not the enemy.
Sorry, but I'm having a tough time seeing the Ducks as victims here. The Civil War will never be the same. It's dead from its present form. To continue it would be a cruelty to Beaver fans. BTW, I'm a lifetime Oregonian married to a Duck for 41 years who happens to agree with me.
It will be an easy win, Chip. That is the sole reason. It is the same reason Oregon books EWU and PSU
Not worth a response just like the Civil War isn’t worth playing. The arrogance by the UO’s fans and administrators is breathtaking. Why would we want to play these morons?
Not so fast. Because of some calculated hyjinx perpetrated by nefarious actors trying their best to scuttle the PAC, the Beavers are now an FCS program? Surely you
jest, friend.
The bottom 60 of FBS are about the same as the top of FCS in terms of quality. That shows up on the recruiting websites like 247. Do you consider Utah State (132nd) or Holy Cross (167th) a true FBS program? There are 133 FBS schools. Some of the FCS schools have better recruiting than the bottom of the FBS like North Dakota State (108th), Sacramento State (132nd).. Houston Christian is 129th. The Beavers are currently 55th where they have been for years (sometimes in the 40s like last year; with the benefit of being in the PAC12 and a P5 program). There will be about 70 FBS (P5/4) teams going forward and with the bigger TV contracts and the P5/4 status for the CFP they will be able to recruit better than the G5. Do you really think a team with quality 1/2 of the current Beavers team have a chance to compete in the upper tier of the FBS? If teams in the bottom half of the FBS (the G5) could compete with the P5 then money and TV contracts would not matter. Right?
Like it or not we (OSU and Oregon) are family. We live in the same state, we work with each other, we worship with each other, we are neighbors and like family we get together at holidays and often agree to disagree over many things while sharing a meal. I’m old enough to remember when both of these football programs were so bad that this game is all we had (see 1983 0-0 game). We might have sucked but at least one of us had a meaningful victory most years. I get feelings are raw right now. But stepping back and taking a breath or two and trying to keep things in perspective it seems like we risk losing a lot by losing this game.
You’re kidding, right?
Really? What do the Beaver lose?
Yes, we are family, and that's why the betrayal stings so bad. I'm married to a Duck for decades. Best person in my world. He happens to feel exactly how I do about all of this. No thank you to any more Civil Wars from either of us. And BTW, we both attended the Toilet Bowl--together.
John when comments occur like on today's post--I wish you had an FU button rather than the "liked" only. I have no desire to play the ducks. Good for the Eagles--different times and certainly different motivations. In this case the ducks are all about greed.
Curious why you have no desire to play the Ducks.
Very simple. Elitist attitude of duckies. Uneven playing field, Beaver's getting 10 mil a year, duckies getting 60 mil a year. If you want an easy game just keep scheduling Portland State and other non-conference games against teams that can't compete.
Exactly right and seeing he doesn’t understand that says it all.
I guess "elitist attitudes" don't mix well with whiny crybabies? Bitter Beavs - always have been, always will be.
As for the chance of reconciliation between OSU and Oregon, the chance is zero, though I know a lot of people are wishing for it. There will be over $100M separating the two athletic programs going forward: $160M vs. $50M (maybe). No matter how good the coaching and the amount of "coaching up" that takes place, that talent gap cannot be filled and the two programs, all the major sports, are going opposite directions. I would love if someone would say that a 100+ year tradition of rivalry and relative parity was worth sharing the athletic budgets at both schools so that level competition can continue. But that isn't going to happen. So, unlike 1910, when there was virtually no budget at all for either school and so they were equals, that is not the case in 2024 and beyond. The rivalry is done, at least for sports where talent matters.
This type of article is why I subscribe. Great job John!
I'm sorry Mr. Canzano, I disagree. A tradition of sitting around the Christmas tree on Christmas Eve, reading Christmas stories with the family and sipping hot chocolate is great. Playing football with a backstabbing institution for a paycheck is not the sort of tradition I want to remember. If we ever play the school from Eugene again I will be disappointed in OSU's decision.
…’it should continue because the rivalry is part of the fabric of the state.’
For 100 years the PAC 8/10/12 has been the fabric of the entire west coast. The PAC has been admired and hated; it has had seasons of incredible strength and power; it has had losses that break hearts and victories that leave you breathless.
Unfortunately, the PAC is no more. It is time to move on. Play the Ducks, but don’t call it the Civil War. Let the huskies and Cougars play; but not in the Apple Cup.
Call these games what they will be; a sad nod to a once mighty athletic conference that was destroyed by greed. A sad nod to an era that is no more.
To pretend that all the PAC rivalries can continue like nothing has happened allows those who made incredibly bad decisions a moment of forgiveness.
They are never to be forgiven for the incredible lack of oversight, management and even the slightest hint of giving a damn. Thanks to them, the PAC is dead.
Leave the deceased alone and move on.
Good comment Patricia.
Nope , Not at this time. OSU must find a way to be funded at a higher level than what it looks like now to keep the playing field somewhat level. They left good riddance to the ducks!
The other half of your conference was able to continue its state rivalry. Sad that you would rather wallow in bitterness vs make the best of a rough situation.
Ending the rivalry IS the difficult and wise decision to make for OSU given all the circumstances.
Duck fans do not have a legitimate reason for desiring any further CW games.
Citing 'tradition' is pure hypocrisy. If tradition was valued AT ALL by UO (and UW) the outcome would have been different. Look south to AZ and 2 Cal schools who cared enough for tradition and history to stick together when this all hit the fan.
They were forced to continue their rivalry by their state legislature.. They share a board of regents. Not the same in Oregon where the two universities are completely separate and only have proximity in common. Oregon might as well start booking Willamette U. I doubt the rivalry in Washington will continue for more than 3 or 4 years. The games will not be competitive with WSU relegated to a lower division
"They share a board of regents."
UW and WSU do not share a board of regents. They are under two separate university systems.
Okay, stand corrected on that. I had read that previously but researched it and yes, the state schools in Washington are split. Oregon universities were split a couple decades ago. Earlier they had been managed by one board for allocation of schools (OSU has no medical school or architecture school, Oregon has no engineering or forestry school, for example). I think it was the same in Washington but I can't easily find a reference to this
And because they are in different systems, that is why it would take the state legislature to compel them to remain in the same conference. But laws like that are a double-edged sword....you make one fanbase happy by ensuring they have the financial means to remain competitive, but anger the other because they see it as holding them back. Hence that bill never went anywhere, nor would it have if someone introduced the same thing in the OR legislature.
Its called compromise, which I know is a dirty word in today's selfish world
Brian, who "were forced to continue their rivalry by their state legislature?"
There was a lot of sentiment among Washington state political leaders to keep UW and WSU playing together and maintaining tradition. The bill to force them to stay in the same conference did not pass (should have, like it did in Arizona so that Arizona was forced to wait for ASU to be offered a Big 12 invite). The sentiment in Washington legislature remains: https://247sports.com/Article/Washington-State-senator-details-bill-requiring-Washington-Huskies-and-WSU-Cougars-to-play-in-same-conference-202855287/. Who do you think decides these things? The fans? The coaches? The players? No, it is the state power brokers.
Are you the guy who said something about “old white men” or do you just robotically think alie?
I never use racist terms. But maybe you do?
Okay. Thanks for the clarification. As you said, the WA state legislature has yet to formally force them to continue the rivalry. Just a discussion and failed vote in the legislature. It is hard these days to pass any legislation in WA state that does not follow strict party lines.
Hey now, don’t be dissing the Bearcats
Two requirements for the Civil War to go on
1. Must be at Reser every other year
2. Beavs have P5 level funding.
No way should we make UO lives easier and have a huge financial domination that dwarfs the already large financial disparity between both schools
#2 Beavs have p5 level funding . Curious how will the funding be achieved?
As it is, OSU and WSU were always at the bottom of the P5 in terms of the revenue they generated from Football and all sports. But still the athletic revenue they generated was more than double what your average Mountain West school generated. So, it will be a struggle for OSU and WSU to maintain their places at the bottom of the P5 in terms of revenue generation, especially since many P% schools are about to get a revenue bump from increased media rights money
I don’t think we should play them under these terms, sir. The administrators at this school have no qualms about stabbing people in the back. And then they try to make everything OK by creating a rivalry that forgets history and helps them save travel and money every year with no benefit to the school they dumped on.
Totally agree. My thinking changes completely if OSU has the funding of Oregon going forward and is able to play in a P5 conference so the Beavs can recruit. I have zero idea how that is going to happen since all the P5 conferences already rejected OSU and WSU
Spare me.
If I'm not mistaken there is precedent in our current conference arrangement Brian. California politicians are making UCLA pay Cal. Now that might have changed with Cal joining the far eastern conference. In a way it makes sense, same with Washington and Wash. State. If the state universities are really state properties, then the revenue earned by sports teams would be in reality, state property too. This whole thing is crazy.
The difference with the CA schools is Cal still is funded at P5 levels just like UCLA. OSU and WSU will be lucky to get MWC kind of money which will make the differential over $100M with Oregon. Do you really think the two teams will have anything close to equal talent and other resources? I have watched Div 2 games. It is just not the same, though NDSU did manage to beat UofMN a decade ago. And the UofMN coach was promptly fired.
Cal went to ACC for free
If Cal and Stanford have billionaire sugar daddys, like Oregon does, then they might have the option to forgo revenue. SMU moved to the ACC for free as well because they have many billionaires who will fund their athletics (which lays to a lie any statements from Duck fans that they needed to move to the B1G for the money...bullcrap, PK gives them more a year than will their media deal).
Stanford sure, but remember Cal has the most debt compared to any other FBS school, and not by just a little. They are known to make very poor financial decisions